(Topic ID: 98746)

Clay's Guides - are they ever coming back?


By Atomicboy

5 years ago



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  • Latest reply 5 years ago by pmWolf
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    #51 5 years ago

    Clay, there has to be a way. Surely you see a "new" crowd in the pinside masses. There are many ways to make this work for the benefit of you and all. Most of the working machines out there now are directly because of your guides, and even most of us now that repair even new sterns have our knowledge to thank from the guides and all the footprints they embedded.

    What you made in those guides are by far one of the most important things done for the hobby of pinball.

    Don’t let some rotten apples ruin it for you, and everyone that stands to benefit from the greatness you have made for them. We need them back.

    #52 5 years ago

    Clay - I have to say that reading your guides is one of the main things that got me exciting about owning my first machine years ago. I still use those guides every time I work on a machine and have mentioned them to numerous people new to the hobby who want to know how to work on a machine.

    I understand and respect your reluctance, and hope you can figure a way to make it work in the future.

    #53 5 years ago

    I just bought my first pinball machine (a Gottlieb System 1) a few months ago.

    The system 1 guide has been an invaluable resource of information during my ongoing restoration process.

    http://www.pinrepair.com/sys1/

    #54 5 years ago

    I am sure that I am not the only person who is very appreciative of the work that went into creating the guides and has benefited greatly from being able to use them. I have and always will offer many many Thanks to all who were involved! The guides have helped me learn about my machines and make many repairs that I otherwise would not have been able to do.

    It is sad that all of the positive feedback that has been given to Clay (& others) and all of the benefits to the pinball community have been overshadowed by whatever happened. Ideally it would be great if somehow those involved could see past whatever the issues were and remember the bigger picture. After all Pinball is supposed to be FUN!

    In the mean time, I have signed up for Pinball Ninja.

    #55 5 years ago

    This whole thing is really sad. It all seems to revolve around money.

    There are thousands of hobbiests trying to fix machines daily, etc. The better equipped they are, the longer these machines will survive.

    Both sides, Clay and whoever else is involved need to suck it up and call some sort of truce. Just release the damn things already.

    #56 5 years ago

    And I doubt it would be a copyright infringement to post a LINK to the guides.

    -3
    #57 5 years ago

    The guides aren't coming back period. No amount of begging will change that. They have been "gone" for years now - the world has continued to move forward and games are still fixed everyday.

    If you can't figure out how to get them yourself through google, then you certainly wouldn't be able to use them to fix a game.

    Clay's PinballNinja site is the guides on steroids - with information and fixes for most of the common issues. The man deserves support - so stop whining and support him.

    #58 5 years ago
    Quoted from Xenon75:

    The guides aren't coming back period. No amount of begging will change that. They have been "gone" for years now - the world has continued to move forward and games are still fixed everyday.
    If you can't figure out how to get them yourself through google, then you certainly wouldn't be able to use them to fix a game.
    Clay's PinballNinja site is the guides on steroids - with information and fixes for most of the common issues. The man deserves support - so stop whining and support him.

    It's comments like that make issues in the first place. No one is whining. As you can see, there are people coming together for him, for the guides, trying to find a way to make it work. You have no crystal ball, and your view, as such, means little, especially with the tone.

    The ninja site has always been great, but it is no "clay's guide" as a whole. It's better I find for game specific issues, which are things not typically gone over in the guides.

    #59 5 years ago
    Quoted from markmon:

    Perhaps. But of you post your picture on the web you pretty much lose your claim. I'd probably just use them anyway and let someone that wants me to remove them fight it out.

    That is 100 percent false. I can't tell you how many sites I've had shut down for stealing my photos. (I'm a concert photographer). Posting them on the internet has absolution NOTHING to do with copyrights, ownership, etc. That is as assinine of a comment as someone saying that if you park your car on the street they could come and steal it and it would be OK because the street is public property so you give up the claim to your car by leaving it there.

    That's also a nice attitude you have there about other people's copyrighted work, let's see how you feel the first time someone like me sicks a lawyer after you and sends you an invoice for use of their photos after I get your ISP to take your site down for a DMCA violation. You'll be on the hook for whatever the photographer deems his licencing fee plus damages.

    #60 5 years ago
    Quoted from The_Director:

    I still think Clay's guides are way more easy to read and follow than the PinWiki.
    That being said, there's some posts about this on RGP and I contacted Clay directly. What's holding the guides back is that not all of the pictures are Clay's and some people are being sticklers about releasing their rights to the pictures.
    So, in essence, all the pictures in the guides would need to be replaced by either pictures from the pinballninja site or from new pictures who authors give rights in perpetuity.
    It's a big project, but I think one that is perhaps one of the most important for pinball. I'm happy to volunteer my time in searching through the pinball ninja site and taking new pictures.
    Maybe we can get a group together to help divy up the work. Because, from what it seems, if all the pics were replaced in the guides, Clay would be happy to put them back out publicly.
    Who's with me?

    So if someones elses hand is in the picture, this could be bad news...

    #61 5 years ago

    Screw the pictures. Put the guides back up, and the pictures as you go or never. It doesn't really matter, it would still be light years more than what's out there now.

    The guide is amazing. You might be able to piece the information in it around from other sources, but in one clear, concise, and well written document you could fix almost anything. Nobody explains it better, or makes it easier to understand.

    Quoted from cfh:

    first PLEASE don't post that you have the guides and you are willing to give them out. That is a copyright violation. Robin will revoke your pinside userid if you do this. thank you in advance.

    as for the guides returning, at this point it's unlikely. All the words in the guides are mine (unless otherwise noted, which i believe was only in the pin2000 guide and some sections from williams in the wpc guide.) The problem is the pictures. Most are not mine. And most suck anyway. With new digital cameras the pictures could be way better. heck an iphone takes better pictures now.

    that said, the guides would have to be gone through, all the pictures replace with 100% my pictures (not yours, regardless of whether you give permission or not - i'm not going down THAT road again, ever.) All the pictures in pinballninja.com are mine, they could be transplanted to the guides. Also all the hyperlinks would need to be updated. For the most part the information in the guides is good, as i have been updating the guides over the last 3 years. But i think a lot of guides could be word trimmed to make them more concise and less wordy.

    also i would add a lot of the video content from the pinballninja.com site. Since there's 325+ videos on repair there, it would really add depth to the whole thing.

    Unfortunately the only person that can do this work is me. again, when others help, been there, done that. and i'm just not interested in going down that hell road again.

    The problem came to a head when i tried to help the non-profit Pacific Pinball Museum. and a few really made my life miserable with the guides (at that point especially, and through the years.) It just came to the point where it wasn't worth doing any more. There was a lot of other negative stuff going on too, pointed at me. Which really made me take a step back and re-evaluate the whole situation.

    you can only be poked in the eye so many times before you go blind. if people think that their negative attitudes and actions have no consequences, they are wrong. dragging people through the mud in public forums isn't good for anyone. If you're looking to blame people, first you should blame me. Then all the others that "piled on". Heck one key person has already posted in this thread.

    The whole guide thing was for sure a learning experience. Not just for pinball, but for life. and frankly i have a lot of other things i'm doing in pinball that are far more rewarding. I prefer to do the pinballninja.com thing, as it has a gate keeper. The haters stay out, and the supporters stay positive. It's a much better system, far more rewarding for me and all those that subscribe (to my knowledge.)

    #62 5 years ago

    pinballninja website rules!

    #63 5 years ago
    Quoted from Blackbeard:

    The guides would still be valuable without the pics

    Exactly what I was thinking. Screw the photos and just post the text.

    #64 5 years ago

    It's easy to say to put them up without pics. But trust me, a no pic guide would stink.

    Also the lack of public guides has nothing to do with money. It's the potential hassle (which I experienced first hand). I have complete ownership of the text. But without complete ownership of the pics, it's a potential trouble spot, which I don't want to deal with. And the time involved in re-doing the pics would be immense. I don't have the time frankly. And I can't hand if off to someone because now they have some ownership, and I'm back to the same problem.

    At some point I'll do the work. But right now is not the time. Right now I have to service "The law"'s needs and start the vfw league up once again! Three times is the charm, right rob???

    #65 5 years ago

    Just subscribe to PinballNinja.com. It's easy, and has something that pinballrepair.com doesn't have that's huge.

    VIDEO!

    #66 5 years ago
    Quoted from cfh:

    It's easy to say to put them up without pics. But trust me, a no pic guide would stink.
    Also the lack of public guides has nothing to do with money. It's the potential hassle (which I experienced first hand). If I have complete ownership of the text. But without complete ownership of the pics, it's a potential trouble spot, which I don't want to deal with. And the time involved in re-doing the pics would be immense. I don't have the time frankly. And I can't hand if off to someone because now they have some ownership, and I'm back to the same problem.
    At some point I'll do the work. But right now us not the time.

    We get it Clay. If you never post it again we will all live.
    I still think that even if you think it may stink without photos, the info in the text part can help a lot of people.
    I am a believer that something is better than nothing.
    But I respect whatever you choose to do.
    And I am a Ninja subscriber as well

    #67 5 years ago
    Quoted from The_Director:

    I still think Clay's guides are way more easy to read and follow than the PinWiki.
    That being said, there's some posts about this on RGP and I contacted Clay directly. What's holding the guides back is that not all of the pictures are Clay's and some people are being sticklers about releasing their rights to the pictures.
    So, in essence, all the pictures in the guides would need to be replaced by either pictures from the pinballninja site or from new pictures who authors give rights in perpetuity.
    It's a big project, but I think one that is perhaps one of the most important for pinball. I'm happy to volunteer my time in searching through the pinball ninja site and taking new pictures.
    Maybe we can get a group together to help divy up the work. Because, from what it seems, if all the pics were replaced in the guides, Clay would be happy to put them back out publicly.
    Who's with me?

    I am with you.

    #68 5 years ago

    As mentioned Clay, other's here are willing to take the high res photos you need to at least get the original content back up.

    What if those that wish to help do so, with a confirmation email or whatever, that they give you that consent and transfer the ownership to you "unconditionally" for you to do whatever with. Then the needed updated photos are there, they are yours, and there is no condition as to your use.

    This could even go a step further with updates to links and other content completed by others that fully agree to do this on the basis that this is all your property, and regardless of what you will do with it.

    I get your issues, I deal in large loss liability myself, but so long as there is a firm written agreement in place with all those that want to help you get this back up, the property will be yours without strings.

    You will have many people wanting to help you ***as you have helped all of us – unconditionally***.

    Come on, at least give the idea a chance Clay.

    -9
    #69 5 years ago
    Quoted from cfh:

    It's easy to say to put them up without pics. But trust me, a no pic guide would stink.
    Also the lack of public guides has nothing to do with money. It's the potential hassle (which I experienced first hand). I have complete ownership of the text. But without complete ownership of the pics, it's a potential trouble spot, which I don't want to deal with. And the time involved in re-doing the pics would be immense. I don't have the time frankly. And I can't hand if off to someone because now they have some ownership, and I'm back to the same problem.
    At some point I'll do the work. But right now is not the time. Right now I have to service "The law"'s needs and start the vfw league up once again! Three times is the charm, right rob???

    But it does have to do with money, doesn't it? The people "hassling" you only did so because you leveraged the guides into a pay resource and didn't want their input to the guides prostituted. Isn't that the case, or am I misinformed?

    My problems with your guides have long since been addressed (although the damage had already been done). It is ironic that now you have an interest in copyright protection, whereas when you started you copied other protected IP with no worries.

    #70 5 years ago

    One picture in the guides was taken by me.
    The tie-back picture of the up-down target in ST:TNG. (Jelle Nelemans)

    I was (and am) honored Clay placed it in the guides!
    Wrote already he has permission to do whatever he likes with it, and if it makes a few dollars for a worthy cause, Godspeed!

    Pretty sure most will feel the same, so just replace those of the 'nay-sayers'.
    My 2 cents

    #71 5 years ago
    Quoted from cody_chunn:

    But it does have to do with money, doesn't it? The people "hassling" you only did so because you leveraged the guides into a pay resource and didn't want their input to the guides prostituted. Isn't that the case, or am I misinformed?
    My problems with your guides have long since been addressed (although the damage had already been done). It is ironic that now you have an interest in copyright protection, whereas when you started you copied other protected IP with no worries.

    Cody, I don't want to rehash here, I don't want to finger point, I don't want to re-sour everyone with the same old shit, I just want to see if there is a way we can get the guides back up in a way that Clay will agree to.

    If you want to start up camps against something, there are a zillion woz/jjp vs stern threads you can go get locked. Please don't do it here!

    #72 5 years ago

    I absolutely LOVE Clays guides and videos. I for one will do whatever it takes to help him out.

    Pinrepair.com could/will go down as the single most important webpage or document responsible for people getting into the hobby and daring to own their own machines and repair them themselves and you could say [Clay's guides] helped rejuvenate a tired industry by creating more collectors and owners of games. Thank you Clay It worked on me lol....
    Clay your guides are an invaluable source of information that all must read if wanting to own or repair your own games and for it to be lost and not finished to your standard would be a shame. Lets find a way to get you absolved of any legal hassle and paid so it can happen. {not that you want to be paid just that you deserve to for all your time and expertise} You even made the guide and gave the proceeds to charity WOW! You should be commended not reprimanded.
    Sure be nice if the legal stupidness could be easily averted somehow!!!! People like yourself do not need or deserve the hassle that comes with helping so many. Everyone I know who has games has used the guides at some point
    Like Leon's info and site [RIP my friend] we need to find a way to help and reward those responsible like Clay and Leon and also immortalize the websites and the info contained within to aid and inspire further generations of pinball padawans.
    If it never happens know you have inspired many many people to a passion I love more than I can say and for that I am eternally grateful
    Thanks for everything Clay

    #73 5 years ago
    Quoted from cody_chunn:

    But it does have to do with money, doesn't it? The people "hassling" you only did so because you leveraged the guides into a pay resource and didn't want their input to the guides prostituted. Isn't that the case, or am I misinformed?
    My problems with your guides have long since been addressed (although the damage had already been done). It is ironic that now you have an interest in copyright protection, whereas when you started you copied other protected IP with no worries.

    Drama drama....this is why Clay has ZERO interest in putting the guides back up and I don't blame him one bit. Life's too short to keep rehashing the same conversation over and over - once a shit sandwich, always a shit sandwich and Clay's not about to take a big bite.

    The guides are/were a fantastic resource, but it's time to let this dead dog lie - join Pinball Ninja and thank Clay for all he has done for this hobby.....

    #74 5 years ago

    Plus on the above post. There's never been any money here. I transferred rights to pacific pinball museum. I got nothing out of the deal but hassles when they wanted a donation for access. Then it became a problem causing ppm to abandon the idea and give the mess back to me. I choose to let it die because it wasn't worth the hassle. Attitudes like mr. Chunn's were/are the prime cause I have no interest in doing the necessary work to revive them.

    #75 5 years ago

    I don't know know maybe I'm a greedy bastard, because why would anyone expect a guy to give away a decade of knowledge for free? Here and there maybe, but you should never expect it. Everyone should be thanking Clay for all his years of free info.
    Money is motivation
    Here's my solution -Clay will get 5000 paid in full pre orders $199 = $100,000 in the bank ! for a College style hard cover text book with all new pretty pictures .I would pay $200 in heart beat to get all that knowledge at my finger tips Then Clay can Do like the college professors do and revise the book every year.
    I maybe way off base but come on if you want this info you can't expect for free.
    Just my two cents
    BTW Clay if you did this I would PayPal the money today even If I had to wait a year or two for the Book of knowledge

    #76 5 years ago

    So why don't the people who own the rights to the pictures consent? I don't understand this.

    It seems Clay is good with releasing his part (the text) but the issue still lies with the owners of the pics. It seems that is who should be asked about this.

    Why exactly don't they want theyre precious pictures posted?

    #77 5 years ago
    Quoted from Wariodolby:

    I don't know know maybe I'm a greedy bastard, because why would anyone expect a guy to give away a decade of knowledge for free? Here and there maybe, but you should never expect it. Everyone should be thanking Clay for all his years of free info.
    Money is motivation
    Here's my solution -Clay will get 5000 paid in full pre orders $199 = $100,000 in the bank ! for a College style hard cover text book with all new pretty pictures .I would pay $200 in heart beat to get all that knowledge at my finger tips Then Clay can Do like the college professors do and revise the book every year.
    I maybe way off base but come on if you want this info you can't expect for free.
    Just my two cents
    BTW Clay if you did this I would PayPal the money today even If I had to wait a year or two for the Book of knowledge

    So I guess you are in on JJP's next machine preorder? LOL. Sorry, couldn't help it. Not trying to be a hater.

    #78 5 years ago
    Quoted from cfh:

    first PLEASE don't post that you have the guides and you are willing to give them out. That is a copyright violation. Robin will revoke your pinside userid if you do this. thank you in advance.

    Tempest in a teapot, I have a whole army of 1 (one) Pinsider ask me for a copy of this disk.

    #79 5 years ago
    Quoted from Carl_694:

    So I guess you are in on JJP's next machine preorder? LOL. Sorry, couldn't help it. Not trying to be a hater.

    I would take Clays word for a release date for a text book over JJP releasing anything ....

    -1
    #80 5 years ago
    Quoted from Atomicboy:

    It's comments like that make issues in the first place. No one is whining. As you can see, there are people coming together for him, for the guides, trying to find a way to make it work. You have no crystal ball, and your view, as such, means little, especially with the tone.
    The ninja site has always been great, but it is no "clay's guide" as a whole. It's better I find for game specific issues, which are things not typically gone over in the guides.

    My view means as much as yours - digging up a topic that has been beaten into the ground ad-infinitum does come across as whining if we are inferring tone through plain text.

    When the website hosting the guides went dark, people did band together to replace the lost knowledge for the hobby's benefit- its called Pin-Wiki.

    Those dudes spent a lot of time gathering up the much of same knowledge found in guides. Is it the same - no. The guides were and still are awesome. But if people have a problem with how the wiki is organized or the content therein, the wiki be edited and refined into a better product.

    No one person owns the Wiki, so the same thing that happened with the guides can never happen again.

    After all of the drama and Clay going quiet for a long time on any public forum, I am just glad to see him participating in the banter.

    #81 5 years ago

    f this waiting and thinking. I emailed him to get in on pin ninja.

    #82 5 years ago

    If I had a nickel for everytime I sent someone on here the link to the guides, I'd be rich.

    But I'm not.

    Because I didn't charge.

    #83 5 years ago
    Quoted from Atomicboy:

    Cody, I don't want to rehash here, I don't want to finger point, I don't want to re-sour everyone with the same old shit, I just want to see if there is a way we can get the guides back up in a way that Clay will agree to.
    If you want to start up camps against something, there are a zillion woz/jjp vs stern threads you can go get locked. Please don't do it here!

    I didn't bring anything up. Clay made a statement that from what I understood wasn't true. I asked a legitimate question.

    Quoted from cfh:

    Plus on the above post. There's never been any money here. I transferred rights to pacific pinball museum. I got nothing out of the deal but hassles when they wanted a donation for access. Then it became a problem causing ppm to abandon the idea and give the mess back to me. I choose to let it die because it wasn't worth the hassle. Attitudes like mr. Chunn's were/are the prime cause I have no interest in doing the necessary work to revive them.

    I seriously thought the reason people gave you grief was that they wanted their input to remain free for the pinball community at large, which was the spirit in which it was submitted. Is that not the case? I had nothing to do with that episode. If you put the guides back up, I wouldn't care. They are a tremendous resource. If you want to charge for them, I still wouldn't care.

    In fact, I submitted one of the pics that was used in the guide. The one of the backside of a Stern SDB showing the cap jumper to ground. I never asked for it to be removed because it didn't matter to me if you were charging for the guides, it was a pic that would help collectors fix their games. You can have that picture to use as you see fit.

    So what is keeping you from posting the guides unedited, for free. Did those people make it known that they would still attack you if the guides were free? Honest, serious question.

    Clay, I apologize if my RGP attacks caused you distress. I honestly believe I was right in my position, but surely crossed lines of etiquette and civility. It is not my intent to hound you, or accuse you. Good luck with your ninja stuff.

    #84 5 years ago
    Quoted from Hawk007:

    Pinrepair.com could/will go down as the single most important webpage or document responsible for people getting into the hobby and daring to own their own machines and repair them themselves and you could say [Clay's guides] helped rejuvenate a tired industry by creating more collectors and owners of games. Thank you Clay It worked on me lol....

    +1

    I probably would have never had the courage to attempt pinball repair without seeing those guides first. THANKS Clay (and whoever else contributed).

    #85 5 years ago

    The Pinwiki is still a good source of information. Is it the best source? No. It could be written better, but it does contain a lot of information and pictures.

    Randy Fromm does an excellent job of writing and explaining things in all his repair guides (video arcade games, monitors, power supplies, redemption games, slot machines, and pinball). He puts it all in books, videos, and teaches classes. Naturally he charges for everything because his information is very good.

    There's nothing stopping someone else from writing new repair guides similar to what Clay's guides were. Just take your own pictures, write things in your own words, and format it however you like. Heck, you could even put in a book form and sell it. Even old codgers like me who've been repairing games for 40 years now would buy a book like that.

    Some of you who collect/repair video arcade games probably have seen some of my monitor or power supply repair guides.

    #86 5 years ago
    Quoted from Blackbeard:

    So why don't the people who own the rights to the pictures consent? I don't understand this.

    Because people can be deeks. And even if person A 'said' they give you rights, you have no way of knowing they actually did even own the rights until you get a letter from person B's lawyer asking for restitution.

    It ain't worth it. To many internet a-holes that never got enough hugs as a kid.

    #87 5 years ago
    Quoted from Patofnaud:

    Because people can be deeks. And even if person A 'said' they give you rights, you have no way of knowing they actually did even own the rights until you get a letter from person B's lawyer asking for restitution.
    It ain't worth it. To many internet a-holes that never got enough hugs as a kid.

    This is true. And because of a fabulous thing we have in America called the DMCA, anyone that takes the time to fill out a simple form can pretty easily cause a lot of grief for a small website operator. Service providers are obligated to act on all DMCA complaints, and it is most often easiest for them to "shoot first" in the direction of the website operator in order to insulate themselves from liability and expense.

    #88 5 years ago
    Quoted from Blackbeard:

    So why don't the people who own the rights to the pictures consent?

    Go back on RGP and see how the whole thing went down.

    People had their true character exposed for all to see.

    -1
    #89 5 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Go back on RGP and see how the whole thing went down.
    People had their true character exposed for all to see.

    I can't work that medievel forum.

    I'm guessing it all came down to the almighty buck.

    #90 5 years ago

    All I know is the repair resources that still exist and the guides that Clay shared are something I find valuable. I still have my printed copy from before they were removed.

    Now quit the bickering and go back to fixing your games!

    #91 5 years ago
    Quoted from cfh:

    Plus on the above post. There's never been any money here. I transferred rights to pacific pinball museum. I got nothing out of the deal but hassles when they wanted a donation for access. Then it became a problem causing ppm to abandon the idea and give the mess back to me. I choose to let it die because it wasn't worth the hassle. Attitudes like mr. Chunn's were/are the prime cause I have no interest in doing the necessary work to revive them.

    I just want to see a new TOP vid! If you ever decide to revive anything, PLEASE make it TOP!

    #92 5 years ago
    Quoted from Blackbeard:

    I can't work that medievel forum.
    I'm guessing it all came down to the almighty buck.

    More pride and feelings getting hurt, than money.

    "Just to post a point a view from a contributer, I have to say that I was pretty pissed about it. I am a small contributer (just a few paragraphs in the pin2000 guide about the video amp), but it was my words exactly and pics in the guide. I didn't like something that I put out there to help everyone, now was just helping the PPE fill its coffers with cash. I sent both an email to clay and to the ppe's contact email (with no response yet). One PPE person did contact me after going back and forth in the newsgroups and in his email he said that the PPE was holding off on doing anything with the material until the matter was taken care of. Can't really ask for anything more than that right now. I know that if it does go through with the current plan I want my info removed from the guide. The sad thing is, I am sure clay built all those guides with free information that came from the internet.

    bummer,
    mickey"

    You can read all the gore :

    http://forums.arcade-museum.com/archive/index.php/t-180802.html

    #93 5 years ago

    <
    proof positive that its not worth dealing with some people.

    #94 5 years ago

    Interesting Vid.

    Thanks for the links..

    #95 5 years ago
    Quoted from radium:

    This is true. And because of a fabulous thing we have in America called the DMCA, anyone that takes the time to fill out a simple form can pretty easily cause a lot of grief for a small website operator. Service providers are obligated to act on all DMCA complaints, and it is most often easiest for them to "shoot first" in the direction of the website operator in order to insulate themselves from liability and expense.

    Yep. You can even put stuff up on a peer to peer network and report every IP that takes a copy.. Laws are made to protect, but in most cases they get perverted and used for other means.

    #96 5 years ago
    Quoted from dsuperbee:

    I just want to see a new TOP vid! If you ever decide to revive anything, PLEASE make it TOP!

    I do agee with this one. I remember a seminar (think it was at an expo) Clay did detailing a classic Bally/Stern SS video he was going to do. Would love to see that finished. What do they say? Oh, yea. Take my money!!

    #97 5 years ago

    Ok, I guess I will try to add some more gasoline to burn this thread down...

    So let's say Clay is no longer with us and I THEN decide to post his guides on my website for all to read? Would anyone care, and if so, who? The people that took pics? I call BS.

    How would that scenario be any different than all the sites already doing that exact same thing right now?

    Additionally, has anyone ever heard of the wayback machine project? http://archive.org/web/

    It is 100% legal to archive pages that once existed on the internet and, as long as THAT is the case, why would any concerns of any of us on pinside.com regarding this entire thing be RELEVANT AT ALL?

    I don't consider myself an expert on information but I have used the wayback machine MANY times to reference historical so called "internet facts" and it is here to stay.

    #98 5 years ago
    Quoted from radium:

    tattoo them on my butt cheeks.

    would make it kinda hard to read--better consider putting them on your junk............

    #99 5 years ago
    Quoted from snyper2099:

    Ok, I guess I will try to add some more gasoline to burn this thread down...
    So let's say Clay is no longer with us and I THEN decide to post his guides on my website for all to read? Would anyone care, and if so, who? The people that took pics? I call BS.
    How would that scenario be any different than all the sites already doing that exact same thing right now?
    Additionally, has anyone ever heard of the wayback machine project? http://archive.org/web/
    It is 100% legal to archive pages that once existed on the internet and, as long as THAT is the case, why would any concerns of any of us on pinside.com regarding this entire thing be RELEVANT AT ALL?
    I don't consider myself an expert on information but I have used the wayback machine MANY times and it is here to stay.

    Not quite. The archive.org site simply creates a backup copy of publicly available information for the intended purpose of historical preservation, which doesn't technically fall under fair use. If the copyright owner no longer wishes for information to be made available or redistributed by anyone (including archive.org), they have the right to request that it be taken down.

    So, no, it's not "100% legal" for archive.org to continue to host copyrighted content if the owner/author does not wish their content to be made available by archive.org.

    #100 5 years ago

    This is what you'll get at the wayback machine for those guides:

    "Page cannot be crawled or displayed due to robots.txt."

    So the guides are not available there.

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