(Topic ID: 237181)

Classic stern problem... nine ball switch matrix


By Redketchup

1 year ago



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  • 15 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by hocuslocus
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#1 1 year ago

I just finish my Nineball restoration and there is one probleme left! And this one is pretty weird

I made a complete swap, cab, coin door restoration, game was working fine before the restoration start 4 month ago

This is the problem...

If the right drop target bank is down, i can’t start a game, when i push the start button, the game reboot.

If 1 or all drop are up, I can start a game, no problem.

In switch test mode, with the droptarget down... slam switch number is 6 (credit buton), supposed to be 8. If one drop are up... number is good (8)

Same for the slam switch inside the cab.... drop down, number is 6 (credit switch) drop up 8 (slam)

Credit button show alway 6 like is supposed to be (drop up or down)

Coin switch number is ok (drop up or down)

An other interesting thing... if only top right drop target is up, switch test number when i push the slam switch is 7 (tilt switch) supposed to be 8 (slam switch)

To be clear switch number supposed to be

Credit 6
Slam 8
Tilt 7

I already change diode on the credit switch, slam switch, tilt switch and all the drop target.

Recheck wiring and check for a short somewhere, remove start switch and slam switch to be sure there is no short on coin door. All the wiring look like my other stern coin door

Change slam switch.

I change the 5101 for a nvram that i have in hand, no change...

I cut the capacitor between the tilt bob and the wire

If I unplug j2 in the MPU... game boot with drop down

If i remove the plug for the GI at the power supply.., no change. (Looking for a short somewhere)

If i disconnect the big drop target bank (1-8) no change

I also try disconnect the switch matrix wire related to slam switch... no change

If i disconnect all the plug from the LDB, no change (looking for a short somewhere)

I need more idea...

Really bizarre... look like i have something wrong between j3 cab switch matrx and j2 playfield switch matrix

#2 1 year ago

Is all the wiring the same as before the restoration? By that i mean, when you replaced the coin door etc, did you re-use the existing wiring harness that came with the game, or was that replaced at any point?

Also, did you re-pin any connectors? Possibly a pair of wires are in the wrong positions or a connector is a pin to the right or left of where it should be.

This is a weird problem, indeed. Good luck!

#3 1 year ago

There is the switch matrix

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#4 1 year ago
Quoted from frunch:

Is all the wiring the same as before the restoration? By that i mean, when you replaced the coin door etc, did you re-use the existing wiring harness that came with the game, or was that replaced at any point?
Also, did you re-pin any connectors? Possibly a pair of wires are in the wrong positions or a connector is a pin to the right or left of where it should be.
This is a weird problem, indeed. Good luck!

Hi frunch

Didn’t change any wiring... i change all the light socket and i put the new 555 board. No connector repinning. Same for the coin door. Change the ground braid for the playfield

When i start a game, everything work like it should

#5 1 year ago

Have you isolated the problem to the playfield or backbox? I can't remember if you already tried a different MPU, but that might be an easy way to make that determination. Otherwise, you could try testing the switch matrix right at the mpu using alligator clips as Clay describes in his classic Bally repair guide:

With the game off, turn OFF all MPU board DIP switches.

Power the game on.

Put the game into its switch test. On games with sound cards (Lost World and later), this means pressing the red self-test button inside the coin door FIVE times. For chime games prior to Lost World you only press the test button FOUR times. If MPU connector J3 is removed from the MPU board (disabling the coin door's test button), touch J3 pin 1 to ground four or five times to enter the switch test (each grounding of J3 pin 1 is like pushing the red self-test button).

While still in switch test unplug MPU board connectors J2 and J3.

Using an aligator clip test lead, attach one end of the test lead to MPU connector J2 pin 1.

Connect the other end of the aligator test lead to MPU connector J2 pins 8 to 15 (one at a time), as these are the switch rows. A switch number will show up on the score displays for each of the eight J2 pins.

Connect the aligator test lead to MPU connector J3 pins 9 to 16, again these are the switch rows. A switch number should show up on the score displays for each of the eight J3 pins.

Move the aligator jumper from MPU connector J2 pin 1 to J2 pin 2 and repeat the above two steps. Continue the test up to J2 pin 5. These are the switch columns (remember Bally only has five switch columns).

Power the game off and set all the DIP switches to ON and repeat the above test steps 1 to 8.

Edit: one other suggestion I found in Clay's guide:

MPU Board DIP Switch Problems.
There is another area where the switch matrix can go crazy. This is at the MPU board's 32 mini DIP switches. These switches too have diodes, but if one diode goes bad, the DIP switches can be mis-interpretted, and this can cause havoc in the switch matrix.

If you suspect the MPU board's DIP switches as a problem, just turn them all OFF. This essentially removes them from the switch matrix. Then the DIP switch's diodes can be individually tested using your DMM (set to the diode setting). With the game off, you should get a reading of .4 to .6 for each diode, and when the DMM leads are reversed, a zero or null reading.

#6 1 year ago

I will have a MPU 200 rebuilt with the new rom to be sure it's not MPU related problem.

I will certainly try this tonight

Thank's for your help

#7 1 year ago

Get a test rom that will show you ALL the closed switches, not just the lowest numbered one. http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/images/3/36/Sco_testrom.zip

This way you can tell if you're getting multiple closures with one switch, which usually points to a bad diode or one installed backwards (or other short)

#8 1 year ago

Look like i found my problem...

95374D22-98EF-4D35-ACBE-5057FFF213CC (resized).jpeg

If i isolate the droptarget actuator from the switch.... the problem go away...

Look like my drop target switch didn’t like the bath they take in the ultrasonic cleaner

It’s exactly the same problem i had with my drop target #2

#9 1 year ago
Quoted from Redketchup:

Look like i found my problem...
[quoted image]
If i isolate the droptarget actuator from the switch.... the problem go away...
Look like my drop target switch didn’t like the bath they take in the ultrasonic cleaner
It’s exactly the same problem i had with my drop target #2

did the plating come off in the bath?
guess I'll know not to do that when/if I ever get a cleaner.

#10 1 year ago
Quoted from hocuslocus:

did the plating come off in the bath?
guess I'll know not to do that when/if I ever get a cleaner.

I Will remove and change the switch tommorow, i Will look carefully... but it’s the first Time i have this problem

#11 1 year ago
Quoted from Redketchup:

I Will remove and change the switch tommorow, i Will look carefully... but it’s the first Time i have this problem

might of been worn down from the actuator. maybe ground in dirt kept it from shorting on the bank, and the cleaner took that insulator away.

#12 1 year ago

Confirm succes!

I change the switch an everything back to normal! Yeah! Plating look ok, maybe the isolation paper or something else

#13 1 year ago
Quoted from Redketchup:

Confirm succes!
I change the switch an everything back to normal! Yeah! Plating look ok, maybe the isolation paper or something else

The only thing that makes any sense here is that something happened to fiche/isolation paper. Everything else is metal-to-metal.

EDIT: And what I just said does not make any sense, either. You had the switches activated but blocked from the actuator with tape and problem stops. ????

#14 1 year ago
Quoted from cottonm4:

The only thing that makes any sense here is that something happened to fiche/isolation paper. Everything else is metal-to-metal.
EDIT: And what I just said does not make any sense, either. You had the switches activated but blocked from the actuator with tape and problem stops. ????

yeah I know it's weird, not something I would of thought of either.

I think it has to do with signal resistance going to the cpu board. if it's to high of a resistance then it the signal won't act as closed.
I was playing around with a spinner switch, and even thought it was touching it only worked when the two copper parts were touching. not the plated parts.

Remember a long time ago I tried installing a tungsten EOS in a new stern, and it didn't work. Mainly tried to do a quick fix, since I didn't have an normal EOS at the time.

#15 1 year ago
Quoted from Redketchup:

Confirm succes!
I change the switch an everything back to normal! Yeah! Plating look ok, maybe the isolation paper or something else

Awesome, lets just chalk it up to gremlins.

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