(Topic ID: 294381)

Classic Bally/Stern "Socketless LED Bulbs" Project Almost Complete

By dyopp21

2 years ago


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  • 27 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by dyopp21
  • Topic is favorited by 6 Pinsiders

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    #1 2 years ago

    I've been working on this pet project to completely remove the bayonet sockets from my Bally and Stern restorations. The flickering sockets have given me fits and I'd like to get rid of them altogether. Even some replacement sockets have had issues with flickering.

    I have designed some simple PCB's that can be swapped out pretty quickly and should give a lifetime of service without having any flickering issues. Simply desolder and dismount the old socket, slide the new board under the braided wire and use the same screw and mounting hole from the original socket, then solder the braided and control wires to the landing pads. Done. I've sent the drawings off to have my first PCB boards produced. I will be doing them with warm white LED's only at first and they will require one of the newer LED driver boards, although I may be doing a second design the would remove the flicker issue at the bulb, instead of needing a new driver board as well as other colored LEDs mounted to the board (cool white, etc).

    Here are some mockup photos, including a poorly photoshopped pic of what the new bulb would look like when installed.
    led-mockup-installed2 (resized).pngled-mockup-installed2 (resized).png
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    #2 2 years ago

    Great idea BUT I strongly suggest you use a 1/2 watt SMD resistor instead of that piddly little thing. Even a 1W.

    There is almost no price difference and you certainly have the space for it. There is no point using a tiny resistor that will almost certainly get hotter than it needs to.

    #3 2 years ago
    Quoted from pins4u:

    Great idea BUT I strongly suggest you use a 1/2 watt SMD resistor instead of that piddly little thing. Even a 1W.
    There is almost no price difference and you certainly have the space for it. There is no point using a tiny resistor that will almost certainly get hotter than it needs to.

    Thanks for the advice! This is my first foray into any sort of circuit design so I'm still learning. I'll do further research. Never too late for design changes!

    #4 2 years ago
    Quoted from dyopp21:

    Thanks for the advice! This is my first foray into any sort of circuit design so I'm still learning. I'll do further research. Never too late for design changes!

    Job looks fine so far but it is annoying (to me anyway) when engineers carefully calculate that a resistor needs to be 1/5W so they use a 1/4W.

    WHY? There is no need unless you are really pushed for space. As I mentioned you have no space problem and the cost is only very slightly higher so if you use a 1/2 or 1W resistor it is never likely to give any trouble. Using a 1/4W will likely cause failures down the track. Your actually looks like a 1/8W and I certainly wouldn't use that in this application.

    LEDs use more power than many realise.

    Overall a great idea and you should pursue it.

    #5 2 years ago
    Quoted from pins4u:Job looks fine so far but it is annoying (to me anyway) when engineers carefully calculate that a resistor needs to be 1/5W so they use a 1/4W.

    Well I'm not an engineer but I did do the calculations and it called for a 1/5W so that's what I used in the design. Wasn't aware it would make a difference in failure rate until you just informed! I'm flying by the seat of my pants and learning as I go. I know what I want but getting there is trial by fire.

    #6 2 years ago

    I'm guessing this is not for GI or any bulb whose glass bulb sticks ABOVE the playfield.
    Putting a flat led level with the bottom of the pf shooting up through the empty round socket hole is just gonna make a circle/spot on the bottom of a plastic, right?

    #7 2 years ago
    Quoted from miracleman:

    I'm guessing this is not for GI or any bulb whose glass bulb sticks ABOVE the playfield.
    Putting a flat led level with the bottom of the pf shooting up through the empty round socket hole is just gonna make a circle/spot on the bottom of a plastic, right?

    Correct. Not for any above PF lighting. And I was afraid it may be too focused, or "hot spot" for an insert as well, so I built some using popsicle sticks and they worked really well. The machine still has them installed and has been played daily at my public location and they have had zero issues. See video of it here:

    #8 2 years ago
    Quoted from dyopp21:

    Well I'm not an engineer but I did do the calculations and it called for a 1/5W so that's what I used in the design. Wasn't aware it would make a difference in failure rate until you just informed! I'm flying by the seat of my pants and learning as I go. I know what I want but getting there is trial by fire.

    .....and...this is EXACTLY what I mean by engineers carefully calculating the EXACT requirements when there is no need to 'cut it so close' in this application.

    Always err UP rather than make something "just close enough". That way, future failures are much less likely.

    #9 2 years ago

    This company makes 555 bulb light boards for several classic Bally and Stern titles.
    https://pinballreplacementparts.com/collections/all?page=1

    #10 2 years ago
    Quoted from bluespin:

    This company makes 555 bulb light boards for several classic Bally and Stern titles.
    https://pinballreplacementparts.com/collections/all?page=1

    Room for both types here I think. What the OP is doing is a good idea if the light doesn't spread out too much since it's eliminating the socket entirely - probably good to have a mix of both available.

    #11 2 years ago

    Agree with pins4u on using a higher wattage resistor.
    As a general guide, at least double the resistor wattage rating for what it's dissipating. Keep the resistor running cool.

    BTW why don't you include the parallel resistor to get rid of the LED flickering on your first revision board? All you need to do is add a 470 ohm resistor across the two wire connection points. It's that simple. For flexibility also trace solder holes besides that resistor in case someone wanted to adjust the parallel resistance value using a through hole resistor.

    #12 2 years ago

    Adding the load resistor may make things more complicated than it seems. There are a number of games that use lamp boards instead of discreet sockets, and then you'd have to mix and match your methods for handling the anti-flicker properties.

    That and it also limits the locations these LED's can be used. They wouldn't be useful in non-bally/stern machines, nor would they be useable in GI locations if so desired.

    Not saying it couldn't / shouldn't be done, just saying that there are a few other things to consider to make sure other issues aren't created in the process. To be quite honest.... I often wish that LED's of this style were available on the market, and I've considered doing something along these lines for my own games as well.

    I wouldn't worry about diffusion at all, as I've used very similar RGB LED boards in my PROC project, and they look just fine.

    -Hans

    #13 2 years ago

    Thanks for all the suggestions! And I did consider running a separate “open” circuit where a resistor could be added in parallel to solve flicker on the board itself.

    Also depending on what it costs to produce I may offer these for others if there is any interest.

    #14 2 years ago

    Thanks to y'alls suggestions I replaced the original resistor with a .5 watt. Many thanks again for helping me understand a little better.
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    #15 2 years ago

    Here is the updated design which should allow a resistor to be added in parallel for those that don't wish to use the LED driver boards. Or it can be left out for the after market LED driver boards. Disregard the size of the resistors. They are for positioning only.
    LED-non-flicker-design (resized).pngLED-non-flicker-design (resized).png

    #16 2 years ago

    I would maximize the copper on both the anode and kathode of that LED.
    There is no such thing as too much copper heatsinking when it comes to LEDs.

    #17 2 years ago
    Quoted from dyopp21:

    Here is the updated design which should allow a resistor to be added in parallel for those that don't wish to use the LED driver boards.

    Just a suggestion, I would also include through holes for that parallel resistor if it's optional - not everyone is comfortable soldering surface mount parts:
    The through holes cost you nothing to add and make it easier for some end users.
    Position the holes however you see fit.

    LED_PCB_mod.pngLED_PCB_mod.png

    #18 2 years ago

    In my LED boards, I run my 0.25W SMD resistors at 0.05W. They still get warm to the touch, but will not brown the PCB.

    A 0.25W resistor can run at 0.25W only at 70 degF with recommended mounting and adequate air flow. As soon as you account for a 90 degF summer day, no air flow, and other components close by - you have to reduce the power considerably. High reliability applications initially call for 50% margin to start with. So.... In application you would never run a resistor at its' full power rating continuously.

    #19 2 years ago
    Quoted from bluespin:This company makes 555 bulb light boards for several classic Bally and Stern titles.
    https://pinballreplacementparts.com/collections/all?page=1

    There are some cool lamp board conversions at that site, but if someone is going to make a lamp board to replace 30 sockets they should have put header pins on it and the buyer can get a couple female connector housings and pin the old wires to them.

    #20 2 years ago
    Quoted from Quench:

    Just a suggestion, I would also include through holes for that parallel resistor if it's optional - not everyone is comfortable soldering surface mount parts:
    The through holes cost you nothing to add and make it easier for some end users.
    Position the holes however you see fit.
    [quoted image]

    Change made. How about this? It would come with no parallel resistor but one could be added by the user if they prefer to use original pre LED driver board.
    thruholebot (resized).pngthruholebot (resized).png
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    #21 2 years ago
    Quoted from dyopp21:

    Change made. How about this?

    Works for me

    #22 2 years ago

    A question: if I added the resistor in parallel so all of them I make are capable of working with the original “non LED” driver boards, would this cause any issues for people who have the newer LED capable boards installed?

    #23 2 years ago
    Quoted from dyopp21:

    A question: if I added the resistor in parallel so all of them I make are capable of working with the original “non LED” driver boards, would this cause any issues for people who have the newer LED capable boards installed?

    The only negative side effect in this case will be that the game will draw slightly more current from the feature lamp circuit when lots of playfield lamps are on. Worst case will probably be an extra amp of current, but you've already reduced current draw by a few amps switching from incandescent to LED anyway.
    It will not introduce new problems, rather it might help lamp driver boards that have some lazy SCRs.

    To complicate it more you could do the following - ignore me if I'm being overbearing:
    Include a solder junction that connects/disconnects the surface mount parallel resistor. Add a solder blob over the junction to connect the R2 SMD resistor. Remove the solder blob to disconnect it.

    LED_PCB_mod2a.pngLED_PCB_mod2a.png
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    1 week later
    #24 2 years ago

    Received and assembled first test boards today. Need to make a couple of adjustments and some testing then I’ll make a large order.

    91C66910-0546-49AB-A635-9AFF925CD8EA (resized).jpeg91C66910-0546-49AB-A635-9AFF925CD8EA (resized).jpeg
    #25 2 years ago
    Quoted from Zitt:

    I would maximize the copper on both the anode and kathode of that LED.
    There is no such thing as too much copper heatsinking when it comes to LEDs.

    Glad to see you took this advice.

    #26 2 years ago
    Quoted from dyopp21:

    Received and assembled first test boards today.

    Congrats on getting your first PCB design manufactured!

    #27 2 years ago
    Quoted from Zitt:

    Glad to see you took this advice.

    Thanks for the advice and actually after these first test boards I extended the pads out even further for the next run.

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