Quoted from Davidus56:Guns don't kill people... bullets do.
Quoted from jorro:guns don't kill people, bullets do!
I'm pretty sure you could pistol whip someone to death.
(Topic ID: 184739)
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I don't think you guys should throw money at these start ups that haven't made a sufficient product number yet and have no operational experience.
Isn't it a stupid risk with bad results that's occurred more than once?
Make a new company get a bank loan sufficient enough to start a new business, generate adequate numbers of shippable products and Vette it's business model.
Good lord.
Quoted from Hawkeyepin:I don't think you guys should throw money at these start ups that haven't made a sufficient product number yet and have no operational experience.
Isn't it a stupid risk with bad results that's occurred more than once?
Make a new company get a bank loan sufficient enough to start a new business, generate adequate numbers of shippable products and Vette it's business model.
Good lord.
Thank you, Captain Obvious.
Quoted from Hawkeyepin:I don't think you guys should throw money at these start ups that haven't made a sufficient product number yet and have no operational experience.
Isn't it a stupid risk with bad results that's occurred more than once?
Make a new company get a bank loan sufficient enough to start a new business, generate adequate numbers of shippable products and Vette it's business model.
Good lord.
This is from post #23 https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/class-action-lawsuit#post-3674618
You may have missed it, so ill leave it for you here
"(Moderation mode on)
This is not the place to inform TBL achievers how dumb you think they were sending $ to Dutch Pinball.
Enough drama here, no need to rub their wounds.
This thread is about whether a class action makes sense or not - keep it on topic please.
Other DP/TBL related matters can be discussed in the main thread.
(moderation mode off)"
Dont know if you intended to be a dick but you def came off that way
Quoted from Hawkeyepin:I don't think you guys should throw money at these start ups that haven't made a sufficient product number yet and have no operational experience.
Thanks for warning us in 2014, Mr. Knowitall McFuckleberry.
Quoted from jayhawkai:Good lord, indeed.
Well, "'Vette, it was" that Walter destroyed ... trying to teach little Larry not to find a stranger in the Alps.
Quoted from Damon:This is from post #23 https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/class-action-lawsuit#post-3674618
You may have missed it, so ill leave it for you here
"(Moderation mode on)
This is not the place to inform TBL achievers how dumb you think they were sending $ to Dutch Pinball.
Enough drama here, no need to rub their wounds.
This thread is about whether a class action makes sense or not - keep it on topic please.
Other DP/TBL related matters can be discussed in the main thread.
(moderation mode off)"
Dont know if you intended to be a dick but you def came off that way
Didn't read this and didn't mean to come off that way. At this point I feel the companies doing this are predatory. Don't like seeing members here getting screwed. Came out wrong. Apologies.
Quoted from Hawkeyepin:Didn't read this and didn't mean to come off that way. At this point I feel the companies doing this are predatory. Don't like seeing members here getting screwed. Came out wrong. Apologies.
I apologize as well, I didn't mean to jump down your throat, was just feeling a bit defensive/frustrated.
Quoted from Astropin:I'm pretty sure you could pistol whip someone to death.
Quoted from Rarehero:Thanks for warning us in 2014, Mr. Knowitall McFuckleberry.
Quoted from Dkjimbo:Meeting is likely over by now given the time zone over there...how long till we hear any update?
....seriously...its like 7:30 pm over there. Do the Dutch still carve on rocks to communicate or what???
Quoted from kidchrisso:....seriously...its like 7:30 pm over there. Do the Dutch still carve on rocks to communicate or what???
My guess is that this was just day 1 of negotiations. Might not be anything to report yet.
Quoted from TRAMD:Wow. That seems really positive. Maybe 300+ of us will actually end up with a great game with finished code! The Bride of Pinbot 3.0 still seems like a major miss but maybe that won't matter.
If you read between the lines, its more and more delays as well.
Quoted from Magic_Mike:You look like Jack Nicholson.
Evil grin and everything!
Those pics are of Jaap, not beauimpala.
Quoted from lordloss:If you read between the lines, its more and more delays as well.
Better late than never my friend
London
Quoted from lordloss:If you read between the lines, its more and more delays as well.
Yeah, but it's not "no progress was made". I guess you can't see progress?
Quoted from RyanStl:What would you expect them to post though. The talks went to shit, sorry all? I wouldn't read into press releases that quickly.
I agree it's not reason to celebrate, but it's kind of like today's Trump-Xi summit. Nothing is going to be agreed upon in this meeting, but it should set the tone and ground for future developments. It's definitely a good step in the right direction.
Admittedly I have not read this whole thread, but I guess the basic issue here is ARA is demanding more money per machine from DP to complete production? Is this correct. I guess my question is wasn't there an agreed upon amount per machine from ARA to DP during contract negotiations? If so then what's the problem?
Quoted from ArcadiusMaximus:Admittedly I have not read this whole thread, but I guess the basic issue here is ARA is demanding more money per machine from DP to complete production? Is this correct. I guess my question is wasn't there an agreed upon amount per machine from ARA to DP during contract negotiations? If so then what's the problem?
You are correct (according to DP) regarding ARA wanting more money per game, but no one has any real further info.
Quoted from tacshose:Weird they couldn't quickly come to terms today on the release of the 40 built and ready to ship games. That would seem to me to be the number one priority and easiest to work out.
Well, I'll tell you why. ARA wants leverage and the ability to get money on what they are believed to be owed, right or wrong. If they feel DP owes them "X", they can sell the machines and get that. If they just let them go, they have no leverage and no ability to recover what they (ARA) believe is owed them (again, right or wrong based on the contract).
Seems logical to me based on the argument between the two, even if what I know is ARA is in default of the contract and should release the games immediately.
That being said, I hope they do what they need to do so I get my game!!
Or maybe the meeting was just to do a cold reboot on the relationship and have everyone lay everything out on the table, so to speak. The meeting could be considered a success if all that happened was that the two sides were talking again and establishing a good relationship moving forward.
Quoted from chadderack:Well, "'Vette, it was" that Walter destroyed ... trying to teach little Larry not to find a stranger in the Alps.
When it came to gun talk, I thought everybody was talking about this Walter...damn I miss that show. I'm sure Walter White could get everyone their games...
Quoted from Colsond3:When it came to gun talk, I thought everybody was talking about this Walter...damn I miss that show. I'm sure Walter White could get everyone their games...
DP and ARA say My Name..... Heisenberg ....You'er goddamn right
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:You are correct (according to DP) regarding ARA wanting more money per game, but no one has any real further info.
Well did ARA agree to the terms of the contract? If so then how do they even have a leg to stand on? You can't just raise prices mid manufacturing becasue you messed up your initial bid. Something isn't jiving here...
Quoted from ArcadiusMaximus:Well did ARA agree to the terms of the contract? If so then how do they even have a leg to stand on? You can't just raise prices mid manufacturing becasue you messed up your initial bid. Something isn't jiving here...
Sure you can. Even with a CONtract, it's called a surcharge. They can always be weasel-worded in.
Quoted from ArcadiusMaximus:Well did ARA agree to the terms of the contract? If so then how do they even have a leg to stand on? You can't just raise prices mid manufacturing becasue you messed up your initial bid. Something isn't jiving here...
Something isn't jiving because we have practically no substantiated details to base anything on. The only thing that I know for a fact is that I've paid DP $8,500 for TBL #59 and have yet to receive it.
According to DP, ARA has supposedly not lived up to their agreement by unreasonably requiring more money per game and not meeting the set production schedule. According to ARA, DP has not paid them for any of the games that they've manufactured to date. Beyond that, as far as I'm aware, everything else is speculation by others.
Quoted from Tuna_Delight:Something isn't jiving because we have practically no substantiated details to base anything on. The only thing that I know for a fact is that I've paid DP $8,500 for TBL #59 and have yet to receive it.
According to DP, ARA has supposedly not lived up to their agreement by unreasonably requiring more money per game and not meeting the set production schedule. According to ARA, DP has not paid them for any of the games that they've manufactured to date. Beyond that, as far as I'm aware, everything else is speculation by others.
Not what I heard. My understanding is that DP has not paid the extra 1000 euros per machine on the 100 machines that were manufactured. ARA shipped out roughly half of the machines and requested the 1000 euros for all 100 machines be paid before they shipped anymore.
It's dirty business- sometimes, people don't honor their contracts, especially when they know they've got you. This very well could be a case of ARA holding DP hostage because they can.
I am only hoping that things keep progressing and we all get our machines.
Quoted from iceman44:-deleted-
Case in point... 
Quoted from eggbert52:Case in point...
It needs repeating Egghead 
Quoted from Cobray:Not what I heard. My understanding is that DP has not paid the extra 1000 euros per machine on the 100 machines that were manufactured. ARA shipped out roughly half of the machines and requested the 1000 euros for all 100 machines be paid before they shipped anymore.
Heard from who and is this based on actual verified info?! Regardless of what DP has actually paid or not paid, we're just going to have to await the outcome of their talks with ARA and then go from there.
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