(Topic ID: 201480)

Cirqus Voltaire trough problem

By DarthSinex

6 years ago


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troughassm1 (resized).jpg
s-l1600 (resized).jpg
#1 6 years ago

I have an issue with my Cirqus Voltaire which I'm trying to troubleshoot. When I first switch on the machine, for the first 10 seconds the launcher solenoid half fires so as to have the effect of juggling ball 1 in the trough up and down, but not enough to launch it out. This behaviour continues but then sends to stop as the game is played. Later on the trough will also spit out additional balls either at the end of a ball, or what seems like occasions when the ringmaster is triggered. I have already replaced all balls with more expensive ones that don't magnetize but to no avail. Opto test of ball trough shows no obvious issues and general switch test doesn't show any issues elsewhere either. I would say that as the game progresses(machine warms up) the issue seems to lesson or disappear, but is most pronounced on first booting it up (I have the home rom fitted).

Without question CV is my favourite game and really want to get to bottom of this, as the rest of the machine works flawlessly. Help appreciated!

#2 6 years ago

Start with the basics. Balls magnetized and not rolling down the ball trough ? Divots at the bottom of the ball trough not letting the balls roll down the ball trough right ?

LTG : )

#3 6 years ago

Thanks for the suggestion. I've checked that the balls are not magnetized and also the balls are sitting correctly all the way down the ball trough as they are flush against the sloped side. Could it be that the opto is flaky and improves as the game warms up? Why would the solenoid fire but not enough to shoot the ball out, but just enough to jiggle the balls in the trough? Not sure about that behaviour of the solenoid and it's reasons?

#4 6 years ago

There is probably something wrong with one of the optos in the trough if the balls are all in there properly. The game handles ball jams or stuck balls in the trough by gently firing the plunger to hopefully free them. It usually does this if the jam opto sees a ball or if it thinks a ball is missing from one of the positions (ie. no ball in position 1, but balls in positions 2, 3 and 4. It will usually try cycling the trough solenoid first before going into ball search. Check the optos in switch edge test to see which ones may be flaky or dirty, especially the jam optos higher up in the trough.

#5 6 years ago

schudel5 I think you're answer has helped narrow everything down. I have checked the 4 opto's in the trough and all show to be working, however am I to understand that if at the end of a previous game a ball or balls are physically locked elsewhere it will try and check the trough with the solenoid gently firing, before releasing locks elsewhere? If that's the case then this behaviour appears normal as nearly always it later releases a ball from the highwire lock etc.

What I have noticed however is that there is a permanently made switch at 51 (Left Slingshot), the leaf switch seems to be magnetically stuck together at the bottom of the slingshot.Switch 51 appears to be a switch on the same matrix as the trough eject opto. Could it be that if 51 is permanently made it would be affecting the trough eject opto and produce the effect of causing extra balls to be kicked into play? This switch (51) does not seem to have a diode (although it's partner at the top of slingshot does) is this correct? I shall order a new leaf switch for 51 anyway, but thinking this could be 2 slightly seperate issues at play.

#6 6 years ago

The switch is likely unrelated. You should resolve that anyway. If the left slingshot is truly always made, than the slingshot coil should be on all the time, which is quite bad and will melt the coil and likely blow the fuse and/or transistor. It really sounds like the jam onto is triggering.

There's nothing in switch test? You should go into switch test and actuate every switch and see if you can get the jam opto to fire.

Marc

#7 6 years ago

At risk of sounding dumb here, is the jam opto a virtual switch or is it an actual option in the trough and if the latter, what number is it / what is it called? Can't find it in my menu.

#8 6 years ago

There is one optical switch pair for each ball at rest in the trough. There is an additional one that's in the chute that leads to the PF which is used to detect if a ball is stuck that needs to be cleared. If the game gets a switch closure from that switch, it will fire the trough solenoid to attempt to clear it. So, you'll have n+1 switches in your trough where n is the number of balls that the game needs.

Marc

#9 6 years ago

Looks like they call it switch #31 Trough Eject.

Here is the location on the trough housing and on one of the opto boards.

troughassm1 (resized).jpgtroughassm1 (resized).jpg

s-l1600 (resized).jpgs-l1600 (resized).jpg

2 months later
#10 6 years ago

Issue with the trough is not resolved. I have taken an identical pair of trough opto boards (both transmitters and receiver opto's) from totan and swapped them in. Issue remains. Occasionally, I get a brief error message at start up that says to check fuses 109 101 and 12v . Fuses are fine and if reseated the connector in the board. This clears and game plays, but continues to juggle balls at the start of a game in the trough and spit out more than one, particularly once ball drains. Any thoughts? Is the issue on the opto board under the Playfield or perhaps on a cap on the main board? Not sure what to try next.

#11 6 years ago
Quoted from DarthSinex:

Issue with the trough is not resolved. I have taken an identical pair of trough opto boards (both transmitters and receiver opto's) from totan and swapped them in. Issue remains. Occasionally, I get a brief error message at start up that says to check fuses 109 101 and 12v . Fuses are fine and if reseated the connector in the board. This clears and game plays, but continues to juggle balls at the start of a game in the trough and spit out more than one, particularly once ball drains. Any thoughts? Is the issue on the opto board under the Playfield or perhaps on a cap on the main board? Not sure what to try next.

When you get that error check your 12V with a DMM at the test point and on the trough boards.

#12 6 years ago

Ok, I've checked the the test point with a multi meter at both the 12V unreg and 12V test points, both read 12 or just under.

So, I've narrowed down what it isn't:

1) replaced balls in case they are magnetised
2) Inserted trough liner in case trough is dimpled or magnetised.
3)Completely swapped out both trough opto boards with working TOTAN boards
4) Completely swapped out opto board beneath playfield with working TOTAN board
5) Re-seated J127 and checked fuses f101 and f107 as error message said.

error message has cleared however the same strange behaviour occurs.

In switch test, trough optos recognise balls perfectly and the trough eject opto #31 also works perfectly. Tested both with balls in and balls out.

Popper opto also tests perfectly in switch test.

However as soon as service menu's are cleared and game goes to attract mode, or into game it constantly fires the plunger opto juggling the balls in the trough, and does the same for the popper solenoid. This goes on indefinitely. I know that in tests, the game sees the balls, but outside of test, it seems intent on looking for them??

Any thoughts on what to try next would be greatly appreciated.

#13 6 years ago

This a weird one, did you test the 12V with a game started or in attract mode while the strange behavior is occurring? I'd also test the 12V on the opto switch board (J3-2 & J3-3) while in attract mode and compare it with what you get in TOTAN. My thought is that something is causing the game to think a ball is missing or in the popper and maybe it is caused by a weak 12VDC at the opto board during the game. Do you have any other mods installed that pull from the 12V? One other interesting test might be to remove all the balls and let it go into attract mode which should cause it to search for missing balls, then insert the four balls one at a time and see if the issue still occurs or at least when the "juggling" starts. Good luck!

#14 6 years ago

Check the 7-opto switch board assembly under the playfield for any cracked solder joints at the header pins or any other issues.

#15 6 years ago
Quoted from bobukcat:

This a weird one, did you test the 12V with a game started or in attract mode while the strange behavior is occurring? I'd also test the 12V on the opto switch board (J3-2 & J3-3) while in attract mode and compare it with what you get in TOTAN. My thought is that something is causing the game to think a ball is missing or in the popper and maybe it is caused by a weak 12VDC at the opto board during the game. Do you have any other mods installed that pull from the 12V? One other interesting test might be to remove all the balls and let it go into attract mode which should cause it to search for missing balls, then insert the four balls one at a time and see if the issue still occurs or at least when the "juggling" starts. Good luck!

Agree with bobukcat here. You can also test the transmission through optos (while in attract mode) using your cell phone camera. Optos with a problem will show up dim.

My only other thought is that you have a diode missing (or cracked) on another switch which is causing ghosting/phantom switch issues on the optos. So check the other switches on that column (according to the manual Switch 37 and 38).

#16 6 years ago
Quoted from Turtle:

Agree with bobukcat here. You can also test the transmission through optos (while in attract mode) using your cell phone camera. Optos with a problem will show up dim.
My only other thought is that you have a diode missing (or cracked) on another switch which is causing ghosting/phantom switch issues on the optos. So check the other switches on that column (according to the manual Switch 37 and 38).

OK, I think we have some progress here.

I have checked the 2 target mentioned 37 and 38, which appear to be 3 Wow targets (all in series) but showing as a single switch in test and the two stand up target either side of the ringmaster (Top target in test). There is a really strange phenomenon when I press these in the switch edge test. I get a kind of machine gunning of beeps and I can definitely see the trough opto switches coming up for a nanosecond each time I press any of the switches 37 or 38. All other switches in the machine behave normally with a single beep when pressed. I've looked at the underside of each stand up target and they all seem to have a diode but does this behaviour now point us towards a cause?

Feeling like the end is near here

#17 6 years ago
Quoted from DarthSinex:

OK, I think we have some progress here.
I have checked the 2 target mentioned 37 and 38, which appear to be 3 Wow targets (all in series) but showing as a single switch in test and the two stand up target either side of the ringmaster (Top target in test). There is a really strange phenomenon when I press these in the switch edge test. I get a kind of machine gunning of beeps and I can definitely see the trough opto switches coming up for a nanosecond each time I press any of the switches 37 or 38. All other switches in the machine behave normally with a single beep when pressed. I've looked at the underside of each stand up target and they all seem to have a diode but does this behaviour now point us towards a cause?
Feeling like the end is near here

Yes, this seems unusual and maybe pointing to the problem. My suggestion are:

1) Using a DMM meter the green-orange (stripe) wire from connector J206-3 to each one of the switches and check for continuity.
2) Also, check the diodes on the switches 37 and 38 with a DMM. I believe there should be 1 diode per bank of switches (not each switch). Checking from the switch tabs using a meter.
3) Finally, I believe on the WPC-95 the UL2803 chip (U20) is socketed. So you could try swapping this chip with your Totan. A UL2803 failure is somewhat common failure but normally a whole row or column fails.

Good luck.

#18 6 years ago
Quoted from Turtle:

Yes, this seems unusual and maybe pointing to the problem. My suggestion are:
1) Using a DMM meter the green-orange (stripe) wire from connector J206-3 to each one of the switches and check for continuity.
2) Also, check the diodes on the switches 37 and 38 with a DMM. I believe there should be 1 diode per bank of switches (not each switch). Checking from the switch tabs using a meter.
3) Finally, I believe on the WPC-95 the UL2803 chip (U20) is socketed. So you could try swapping this chip with your Totan. A UL2803 failure is somewhat common failure but normally a whole row or column fails.
Good luck.

I've bought some new UL2803 chips, switched out the old one and put in the new one. Instead of juggling the balls in the trough, the machine now resolutely says Check Fuse 10, 109, J127 and 12V to Optos. Won't clear like before and won't let me move to switch test or attract mode. if I put the old UL2803 chip back in, it will go to attract mode but constantly searches for balls in the trough. Does the new chip behaviour help identify what is going on?

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