(Topic ID: 240871)

Choosing 20 EM's... carefully.


By NicoVolta

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 38 posts
  • 25 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 11 months ago by NicoVolta
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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    #1 1 year ago

    I have a problem. Too many pins. I know you know what I mean... and I know you know I know you know what I mean.

    So, uh, let's say I can only fit 20 of these into the PHOL (Pinball House Of Leisure) that I'm about to start developing next week. I'd have to keep the following 14 for various reasons:

    2001
    Flipper Fair
    Freedom prototype
    Joker Poker
    Little Chief
    Old Chicago
    Out Of Sight
    Queen's Castle
    Rancho
    Sheba
    Sinbad
    Skyrocket
    Spanish Eyes
    Surf Side

    Which would leave only six to keep from the following. But which six?

    Argosy
    Aztec
    Big Day
    Bow & Arrow
    Captain Card
    Dixieland
    Flip Flop
    Hang Glider
    Jumping Jack
    Mini Pool
    Pioneer
    Snow Derby
    Solids & Stripes
    STARS
    Wizard!

    THIS IS TOO HARD.

    #2 1 year ago

    The biggest issue I see is you dont have strange world listed there.

    #3 1 year ago

    Best 6 from the remainder.

    Stars
    Argosy
    Captain card
    Aztec
    Snow derby

    Last one is hard

    #4 1 year ago

    You can put Snow Derby in long term storage at my house if you need help stashing the extras.

    -Rob
    -visit http://www.kahr.us to get my daughterboard that helps fix WPC pinball resets or my replacement LED Display Boards for model H & model S Skee Ball

    #5 1 year ago

    a couple of those games im not sure which versions you have ie rancho is both a williams and a gottlieb . i think you need to go by variety. mini pool would be one. id take either the jumping jacks(my preference) or pioneer. maybe leave out snow derby as you have a 2 inch 2 player in surf side.stars is its own uniqueness. im assuming the aztec is the em version . id decide between that and argosy if so (id probably take argosy). leave out big day (you have sheba in the lineup). then take your pick of one of the 70s bally games.

    #6 1 year ago

    2001 deserves to be at the top of the list

    And Hang Glider is a very fun game.

    #7 1 year ago

    This is so easy
    Jumping Jack
    Jumping Jack
    Jumping Jack
    Jumping Jack
    Bow and Arrow
    Jack in the Box

    #8 1 year ago

    Snow Derby
    Pioneer
    Big Day
    Dixieland
    STARS
    Wizard!

    Reasons:

    • Snow derby looks to be in great condition. Seriously, don't lose it!

    • Pioneer hits my history buff heart hard. I've seen it online and have been dying to play it. Probably so i can point out the inaccuracies..

    • Big day is your time to shine. Look at all those dressed up folks. They're going to a party, wedding, or whatever! Just makes you excited and want to put on your best slacks.

    • Dixieland explains itself. Preservation is key. It's another view on pinball many people don't get to see, or play. Best to keep it close to heart.

    • Ah. Stars. Look at all that strange artwork on the field, and ooo.. maybe when you beat the high score you'll get a free wish?

    • Wizards! Don't know much about it. Looks cool and smells old. It legally has to belong in the pinball collectors collection. It just has to be there or you're not offical.

    #9 1 year ago
    Quoted from Chapmant:

    Snow Derby
    Pioneer
    Big Day
    Dixieland
    STARS
    Wizard!

    • Wizards! Don't know much about it. Looks cool and smells old.

    Smells old??

    #10 1 year ago

    It depends on what your perception of old smells like. Personally, mines not really negative. Just almost nostolgic, dusty wood.

    I hope no Wizards! were offended. Your age has granted wisdom beyond my years.

    #11 1 year ago

    Keep Dixieland for the zipper flippers, funny art and bagatelle.
    You need one flip flag game, not two. Gotta keep Wizard as it is iconic.
    Jumping Jack and Captain Card are both great drop target games. Keep the one you think your customers like best and in the best condition.
    Keep Big Day, fills the gap in early Ballys. Only 750 made and a Ted Zale game.
    Trade Stars for Meteor. Okay, probably can’t do that. Keep the SS.
    And last but far from least, You need another Williams. Aztec is fun and fast. Never played Argosy. I would trade Aztec for an OXO and Argosy for a Space Mission! If you can’t do that, keep the better of Aztec and Argosy, both look-wise and play-wise.

    #12 1 year ago

    My vote is purely on my personal gameplay preference only without regard to features, art, manufacturer or production date:

    1. Jumping Jack
    2. Captain Card
    3. Snow Derby
    4. Aztec
    5. Hang Glider
    6. Bow and Arrow

    #13 1 year ago

    Keep:

    Bow and Arrow
    and Flip Flop for sure

    #14 1 year ago

    Definitely keep Bow and Arrow, Wizard!, Snow Derby and STARS. Not sure about the 2 additional.

    #15 1 year ago

    Nic, might I pass a suggestion by you?

    Pick the games that you definitely want to keep. If there are two similar games that you can't decide between, put them next to each other and put up a sign similar to this:

    ---------------------------------------------

    One Stays and One Goes!!
    Jumping Jack VS. Captain Card

    Vote with your quarters until May 15th, 2019
    The game getting the most quarters will stay and the other will go on to greener pastures

    Vote With Your Quarters Now!

    ---------------------------------------------

    The obvious choices would be:

    Aztec VS. Argosy
    Flip Flop VS. Bow and Arrow
    Jumping Jack VS. Captain Card

    ...or any other two games that can't decide which to keep that you want to pit against each other. The idea is to let your customers be part of the decision making process.

    #16 1 year ago
    Quoted from Pecos:

    Vote with your quarters until May 15th, 3029

    I like the idea but it’s a bit long of a wait to find out the winner

    #17 1 year ago

    Easy. There are 6 Bally’s.

    But i’d be happy to take that Big Day off your hands if you kick it to the curb.

    #18 1 year ago

    I know very little about most EM titles. But I know that Solids and Stripes is a damn fun game. Never even heard of it until visiting cpu-slave s place recently. Sounds like you helped him get that one going. Super fun pool themed EM.

    #19 1 year ago

    As others said....keep Bow and Arrow

    #20 1 year ago

    I would include Dixieland and Stars among the remaining six. Those two titles stand out.

    #21 1 year ago

    Stars - no question
    Captain card - art and gameplay
    Argosy - art and gameplay
    Dixieland - zipper flippers
    Snow derby - art
    Flip Flop - those lower pops

    #22 1 year ago

    Who made Stars?

    #23 1 year ago

    Is there an em stars

    #24 1 year ago
    Quoted from gamera9:

    Who made Stars?

    Stern. It's an electronic game that plays and sounds like an EM. . .good geometry, with a nice spinner and chime. The art package is uninspiring, though.

    #25 1 year ago

    Aztec for sure - one of the great fast playing EMs along with Fast Draw/Royal Flush

    #26 1 year ago

    I love Stern Stars. Great game. Just not an em.

    #27 1 year ago

    I wish the OP had proper LINKED NAMES. If you put a pound sign before the name, in a full web browser, you can link the games like this:

    Dixieland
    Dixieland
    EM machine
    Bally, 1978

    Dixieland
    Dixieland
    EM machine
    Bally, 1968

    That 1968 one looks nice. I wouldn't mind checking one out. Does anyone know where they're out for play?

    #28 1 year ago

    Clay has a Dixieland (1968) at the VFW.

    The Dixieland that Nic speaks of came from me last fall. He could do me a solid and sell me that Big Day

    #29 1 year ago

    Good observations here! Particularly from Pecos who raised some interesting contrasts.

    And now, let's overthink the solution...

    Flip flags - Flip Flop versus Wizard! Good call here. Both are 4-players, both are awesome late-period Ballys, and both have distinguishing characteristics of their own. Flip Flop has the lower pops and bounce-back outlanes... whereas Wizard! has cool "flag powerups", a spinner, and of course "the" pinball theme which was "the" game Bally announced to the world that, indeed, they were taking over.

    I think Wizard! has the edge if we pit these two against one another.

    STARS is a strong contender. Not a pure EM, but a fantastic hybrid with real chimes and great rules. Also the only classic Stern here to represent the company which is a factor.

    Aztec vs. Argosy... another good call. Both late-period Williams 4-players, both fast and furious, but even though I haven't played Argosy as much it does seem to have the edge in long-term enjoyment. Aztec's basic premise is "destroy the spinner" which is easy to light. The rest is largely secondary. So I'd have to tilt Argosy here.

    Jumping Jack vs. Captain Card. Another good call here! Both are drop target feasts. Captain Card has a fabulous fan of resetting drops and huge scoring (doesn't it go to a million?) whereas Jumping Jack is a multiplayer with a great twin lower pop arrangement. In the keeper pile we have an Old Chicago which is the all-time #1 twin lower pop game... but we don't have a Gottlieb. And since we dropped Flip Flop the lower pops aren't an overweighted feature. Finally, since multiplayers are more fun when playing with others, JJ gets the nod over the solitary wedge. JJ has better artwork too.

    Hang Glider vs. Little Chief. Both with a similar layout and a "build up and cash out" strategy. Hang Glider has a spinner and drop targets, but do they add much to the gameplay? Doesn't look like it. Also the top mini-buttons are more novelty-esque than functional. I also admire Little Chief for being an evolution of Kordek's relatively terrible Big Ben into something great with only a few tweaks... and for that it makes Hang Glider relatively superfluous.

    Mini Pool is rare and fun, but like its twin Target Pool it is similar but inferior to 2001. So it isn't essential.

    Dixieland... looks like it is a must. The most innovative 1960's Bally single player, the only zipper-flipper here, the longest outlane ever, and lots of creative diverters which add to the unpredictability. It's weird and different and just too cool not to be included.

    Which leaves only one to pick from:

    Big Day
    Bow & Arrow
    Pioneer
    Snow Derby
    Solids & Stripes

    Big Day is rare and looks cool but the gameplay resembles an alternate version of Gator/Sheba/Campus Queen. I wonder if Sheba (despite its rarity) should be swapped for this one? Hmmmmm. Will have to get it running and play it to be sure. A contender.

    Bow & Arrow. Beautiful condition. Cleared playfield. Strong contender.

    Pioneer. Hmmmmm. Great artwork and good multiplayer with "double double" bonus which is fun to snag. But... overall it is a bit slow and rollover-ish which isn't my favorite style. Perhaps it should go to the museum.

    Snow Derby. Winner of TPF 2016 best 1970's EM and has been cleared, rebuilt, polished, and custom painted. It looks and plays flat-out amazing. Probably the best Snow Derby in the world. But truth be told, it's not among my personal favorites. Would part with it for the right price, but for now can keep the visitors at the museum entertained.

    Solids & Stripes. Damn. Another one of Norm Clark's wacky genre-busting games. Has to be played as a 2-player game to shine, but so does Surf Side so that's not a dealbreaker. I wonder if I'd pull one out of the "keeper pile" to make room for it...? Hmmmmm.

    2001 - cannot remove
    Flipper Fair - cannot remove (it's personal... had it since I was six... and it is fun!)
    Freedom prototype - no freaking way
    Joker Poker - cannot remove (SS version)
    Little Chief - cannot remove (it's the Hang Glider replacement)
    Old Chicago - abso-freaking-not
    Out Of Sight - possible
    Queen's Castle - need to play it, but rare and beautiful and only Zaccaria here so probably not
    Rancho - possible but it is a real beauty
    Sheba - possible if replaced with Big Day
    Sinbad - cannot remove (SS version)
    Skyrocket - no way jose
    Spanish Eyes - cannot remove
    Surf Side - cannot remove

    Thus... would I trade Solids & Stripes for...

    Out Of Sight
    Rancho

    Probably not. But crap... I just bought a 1977 Big Deal. What about that one? Hmmmmmm. Nah.

    So the sell list would likely be...

    Aztec
    Big Day or Sheba
    Big Deal
    Captain Card
    Flip Flop
    Hang Glider
    Mini Pool
    Pioneer
    Snow Derby

    Solids & Stripes... I'll try to fit it in somehow. Nothing else quite like it.

    #30 1 year ago
    Quoted from NicoVolta:

    Good observations here! Particularly from Pecos who raised some interesting contrasts.
    And now, let's overthink the solution...
    Flip flags - Flip Flop versus Wizard! Good call here. Both are 4-players, both are awesome late-period Ballys, and both have distinguishing characteristics of their own. Flip Flop has the lower pops and bounce-back outlanes... whereas Wizard! has cool "flag powerups", a spinner, and of course "the" pinball theme which was "the" game Bally announced to the world that, indeed, they were taking over.
    I think Wizard! has the edge if we pit these two against one another.
    STARS is a strong contender. Not a pure EM, but a fantastic hybrid with real chimes and great rules. Also the only classic Stern here to represent the company which is a factor.
    Aztec vs. Argosy... another good call. Both late-period Williams 4-players, both fast and furious, but even though I haven't played Argosy as much it does seem to have the edge in long-term enjoyment. Aztec's basic premise is "destroy the spinner" which is easy to light. The rest is largely secondary. So I'd have to tilt Argosy here.
    Jumping Jack vs. Captain Card. Another good call here! Both are drop target feasts. Captain Card has a fabulous fan of resetting drops and huge scoring (doesn't it go to a million?) whereas Jumping Jack is a multiplayer with a great twin lower pop arrangement. In the keeper pile we have an Old Chicago which is the all-time #1 twin lower pop game... but we don't have a Gottlieb. And since we dropped Flip Flop the lower pops aren't an overweighted feature. Finally, since multiplayers are more fun when playing with others, JJ gets the nod over the solitary wedge. JJ has better artwork too.
    Hang Glider vs. Little Chief. Both with a similar layout and a "build up and cash out" strategy. Hang Glider has a spinner and drop targets, but do they add much to the gameplay? Doesn't look like it. Also the top mini-buttons are more novelty-esque than functional. I also admire Little Chief for being an evolution of Kordek's relatively terrible Big Ben into something great with only a few tweaks... and for that it makes Hang Glider relatively superfluous.
    Mini Pool is rare and fun, but like its twin Target Pool it is similar but inferior to 2001. So it isn't essential.
    Dixieland... looks like it is a must. The most innovative 1960's Bally single player, the only zipper-flipper here, the longest outlane ever, and lots of creative diverters which add to the unpredictability. It's weird and different and just too cool not to be included.
    Which leaves only one to pick from:
    Big Day
    Bow & Arrow
    Pioneer
    Snow Derby
    Solids & Stripes
    Big Day is rare and looks cool but the gameplay resembles an alternate version of Gator/Sheba/Campus Queen. I wonder if Sheba (despite its rarity) should be swapped for this one? Hmmmmm. Will have to get it running and play it to be sure. A contender.
    Bow & Arrow. Beautiful condition. Cleared playfield. Strong contender.
    Pioneer. Hmmmmm. Great artwork and good multiplayer with "double double" bonus which is fun to snag. But... overall it is a bit slow and rollover-ish which isn't my favorite style. Perhaps it should go to the museum.
    Snow Derby. Winner of TPF 2016 best 1970's EM and has been cleared, rebuilt, polished, and custom painted. It looks and plays flat-out amazing. Probably the best Snow Derby in the world. But truth be told, it's not among my personal favorites. Would part with it for the right price, but for now can keep the visitors at the museum entertained.
    Solids & Stripes. Damn. Another one of Norm Clark's wacky genre-busting games. Has to be played as a 2-player game to shine, but so does Surf Side so that's not a dealbreaker. I wonder if I'd pull one out of the "keeper pile" to make room for it...? Hmmmmm.
    2001 - cannot remove
    Flipper Fair - cannot remove (it's personal... had it since I was six... and it is fun!)
    Freedom prototype - no freaking way
    Joker Poker - cannot remove (SS version)
    Little Chief - cannot remove (it's the Hang Glider replacement)
    Old Chicago - abso-freaking-not
    Out Of Sight - possible
    Queen's Castle - need to play it, but rare and beautiful and only Zaccaria here so probably not
    Rancho - possible but it is a real beauty
    Sheba - possible if replaced with Big Day
    Sinbad - cannot remove (SS version)
    Skyrocket - no way jose
    Spanish Eyes - cannot remove
    Surf Side - cannot remove
    Thus... would I trade Solids & Stripes for...
    Out Of Sight
    Rancho
    Probably not. But crap... I just bought a 1977 Big Deal. What about that one? Hmmmmmm. Nah.
    So the sell list would likely be...
    Aztec
    Big Day or Sheba
    Big Deal
    Captain Card
    Flip Flop
    Hang Glider
    Mini Pool
    Pioneer
    Snow Derby
    Solids & Stripes... I'll try to fit it in somehow. Nothing else quite like it.

    If anyone wants a Being John Malkovichesque view of what it's like to operate a pinball museum, just put on a bow tie and read this post.

    #31 1 year ago

    You sold an EM Cleopatra? ..... Oh No!
    Boo!

    #32 1 year ago

    Yep, but the museum already has a SS one, and I have too many (and better) drop target games... so why not make another collector happy?

    #33 1 year ago
    Quoted from NicoVolta:

    JJ has better artwork too.

    Jack in the Box and OXO have a special place in my heart because they were brand new when I played them at Aladdin’s Castle in Cincinnati when I first got into pinball. I have a love/hate relationship with Jack in the Box. I loved knocking down those clown targets with an ‘X’ for the eyes! Knocking them all down looks so easy, but they always got the better of me. I would probably own one for the nostalgia value alone, but that backglass is one of my favorites in all of pinball. It is dripping with sexual innuendo, a big-nosed Jack in the Box with eight well endowed ladies looking on with anticipation? Excitement? Whatever they are thinking, they are all smiling! How could a guy, especially a teenager as I was at the time, not love that?!

    Good choice and glad to see that you have almost finished the decision making process.

    #34 1 year ago
    Quoted from NicoVolta:

    And now, let's overthink the solution...

    I vote this was the correct amount of thinking.

    Quoted from NicoVolta:

    So the sell list would likely be...
    Aztec
    Big Day or Sheba
    Big Deal
    Captain Card
    Flip Flop
    Hang Glider
    Mini Pool
    Pioneer
    Snow Derby

    Dibs first pick(s)

    #35 1 year ago

    Nico - find a way to hold one more. You should keep Flip Flop. One of the EM's I would have liked to have back after I sold it. Went to a friend once and came back, then regrettably sold again. Don't ever get hooked on modern games. Causes trouble - your EM's disappear. Something always has to go.

    Find a way - Flip Flop - keep it.

    #36 1 year ago

    Dang Nic
    You got plenty of room to stash a few more pins in that (soon to be) basement of yours,
    heck there is even room in one of the bathrooms for a pin.
    And are you really going to use that formal dining room to eat or better yet play pinball??

    anyway my picks to keep are
    Snow Derby
    Aztec
    Big Day
    Mini Pool
    Pioneer
    Big Deal???

    1 month later
    #37 11 months ago

    Have you finished with the moving in of your final selection pinball line up into the new abode yet?
    Please post some pics when available.

    #38 11 months ago

    Hiya Tom! I've been SO BUSY... but nevertheless making amazing progress.

    No pics yet, but have whittled down to 18 which is all I can reasonably fit:

    2001
    Dixieland
    Flipper Fair
    Freedom prototype
    Joker Poker
    Jumping Jack
    Old Chicago
    Out of Sight
    Queen's Castle
    Rancho
    Sinbad
    Skyrocket
    Spanish Eyes
    Surf Side
    Wizard!
    STARS
    Little Chief

    18th to be Argosy or Bow & Arrow

    Sheba or Big Day could replace Campus Queen at museum
    Solids & Stripes - going to museum or sell
    Snow Derby - super nice, but will eventually sell

    Aztec, Big Deal, Captain Card, Dixieland #2, Hang Glider, Mini Pool, Pioneer, Flip Flop all going to be sold or traded for games on the museum floor.

    Oh geez... and there are also surplus games in the museum workshop which need to be sold! Aieeee!

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