The backglass if not damaged before shipping is no fault of the movers, it should have been secured.
Battery puke on a main board is a different story. IF the seller knew it was damaged and said nothing that is pretty tacky and underhanded. If the buyer is handy and could repair it no harm / no foul but if you have to hire it done it becomes an issue and costs real money.

If you buy a game "as working" it should work and if it needs something major the seller should pony up and make it right or adjust the selling price accordingly. Some sellers do care and oversights happen, this one looks like something more than an oversight.

First i would like to say i've done work for Cory in the past, and he was always a very nice guy. I've never had any issues with him. Again, very nice man. Maybe he was having a bad week. Because a friend of mine just bought a Taxi pinball from Cory in Burton MI. (The game was listed here i noticed.) It was advertised as fully working. It was in Cory's garage, and it was like 15 degrees that day, so my buddy didn't really go through the game or really even play it, due to the temperature. He wanted a Taxi something fierce, so he just bought it and brought it home. The game did have a lot of LEDs though. What GI worked initially looked good.

The game did "work", but had a number of issues, which were beyond him. He asked Cory for help in the repair, but didn't get any response. So he called me to fix it. Here's what i found:

1. General illumination connectors on inter-connect board. Man what a mess, looked like they were crimped by someone without thumbs, and clearly without a crimping tool. Also the wrong pins were used. The wires weren't even on the correct pins (back box GI was completely out.)

2. Backbox GI relay connector. Again, someone that was drinking tried to fix this. Ended up with a new GI relay board (about $25 from Marco) and new female connector pins.

3. Playfield GI relay connector. Again, repaired by god knows who. This was ugly (picture below, after the repair.) They didn't have the correct connector, so used a williams system3-7 female interconnector pass through housing with solid core telephone wire soldered to the connector. Wire nuts used to attach it all. Errr....

4. No speech. Sounds worked but no speech. This was an easy fix, but clearly someone that needs glasses attempted to resolve this problem before.

5. Bottom cabinet bell didn't work (disconnected.) This happened because the driving TIP transistor for the bell was shorted and had to be replaced.

6. Playfield top ball gate locked on. Again, shorted TIP transistor.

7. Pop bumpers worked intermittently. This just required some cleaning and switch adjustment.

My buddy commented that Cory didn't want to hire me to do the repairs ("that will cost me $250" - Actually the repair was significantly less than that.) But my point in this post is this... A man gotta know his limitations. Paying a little bit to get a game fixed right before the sale goes a long way to help your reputation. And if you don't want to pay for the repair, instead of hacking the crap out of it, just make it clear the game is sold "where is, how is". And that there are problems (admit the problems, be transparent), and the new owner is responsible for them.

There's of course lots of reasons people don't do these things. It provides a "wedge" in the pricing negotiations. Ammo to the buyer to knock the price down. But again hiding issues or doing slack-jaw band-aid repairs isn't really a good approach. It's better to either A) admit the issues and don't "hack" them, or B) hire the repair out to someone that can do them confidentially and correctly. In the end the money spent (or not spent and 100% transparent) will come back to you in a good reputation. I've also found that trying to be "cheap" in repairs usually costs you more money in the end. I've got another story that shows that well, where in the end, if he just called me first time, he would have saved about $100 in total repairs. But telling that story is bit self serving, so i'll hold back on that.

The one thing i've found out through my years on this planet is having a good reputation is priceless. You can't buy it, and it's hard to undo mistakes. Unfortunately we've all made dumb mistakes to hamper this goal. No one is exempt (me included.) But we all need to try and be better humans to our fellow pinball people. Saving $100 or $200 in repairs and hacking the crap out of a machine yourself is not money saved. It's dumb money, and frankly, is $100 or $200 worth it in the big picture? Certainly not, at least in my world...

Of course then again, i saw that Black Out on CL for $1500 too. And i thought to myself, "damn that has to be the most expensive Blackout ever"... But that's another story...

taxi_cory.JPG

I would have no way of knowing. What I am saying is someone had the bright idea to install a remote battery holder on a non working board. From the pic that he used in his ad, to the board the OP got, extensive work had been done to that board that made no sense.

The seller KNEW it was jacked when he sent it out.

Is it anywhere in the rules that we shouldn't have his name? We SHOULD, stop people from dealing with this guy. Full name and city he operates in.

When i ship a Williams game like this, i remove all the backbox GI bulbs and put them in a bag. It avoids this this issue. Unfortunately the score displays scraping on the backglass is pretty hard to avoid. The solution i've come up with is to buy some single sided weather striping, and put in on the display boards around the glass. this helps a lot in avoiding that problem. Also locking the insert panel with a 1/4" hex screw to secure the latch (so the panel can't come loose) and locking the backglass in place (assuming there is a working lock) really helps too.

As far as that CPU board, it really looks hacked badly. I agree with Jwart that it is repairable, but probably not "on site" repairable. Back at the shop, with good tools and good light, it's probably very fixable. But when in someone's basement, trying to fix it on their ping pong table, not so much....

Of course he is a "nice guy." You gave him money. That's all his type cares about and that made him happy/nice.

In my situation he was giving me money for repairs, i was just doing work for him. And he was a very nice guy, very friendly and helpful and courteous. But you're right in the sense that our relationship was different than a buyer/seller situation. But overall i found him very likable and heck his check cleared.

I just wish he would call me more often for his repairs. This whole thing with the Black Out and Taxi could have been avoided. Yea sure it would have cost him a bit of money. But again, reputations are priceless. Better to spend a little up front, then to do expensive damage control after the fact. Damage control is always expensive... Like in politics, the cover up is always worse then the initial sin.

Moving games is a crap shoot. Sometimes you can move a working game 6 feet and something will act up and other times it can bounce around a moving truck for days and work fine.

I moved my HS2 and had forgot my screwdriver to secure the white board latch. I put a piece of duct tape over it and by the time I got home it moved and left a beauty mark on the translite. Crap happens and its on my list of things to replace when I find a better one or an alternate version.

Removing the bulbs is a good idea.

I agree, i always tell people to move their game to its final resting place before calling me to repair it. Because yea i hear that "i moved it 6 feet and now it doesn't work" story a lot. usually though if that happens the game was just looking for an excuse to have an issue!

Alright I just got home tonight and I am sorry to see the damage that has been done on the Black Out back glass, but as you can see from my original pictures it wasn't damaged like that. First off NAVL put the wrong zip code in the computer and was sending the pinball to a different state and when I had called them they apologized for their mixed up. I am sure the pinball traveled much farther than it needed to travel or moved for that matter from one truck to another. Second, I not sure why the opt thinks the back was repainted on the game because from what I saw it was in perfect condition all around there wasn't even a scratch on the game. Please post pictures of it so we can see what you are talking about. Third, when I purchased the machine originally it didn't need a motherboard or anything. Everything was there including the cpu and driver board. All I did was simply check the fuses and replace a few bad ones on the game and it turned on and worked just fine. My son actually played a few games on it when I brought it home that night. The next thing I did was replace all posts, rubbers, balls, bad bulbs, etc..on the game. I am kind of torn on what to do here because I don't feel I caused any of this to happened. I know I did take insurance out on the game up to $2k so that back glass might be covered. As far as the game repairs I would offer to help out with this to make it right. As I said I have tried to call the opt. but he won't answer my calls. I understand he's upset and I would be too, but the way he's handling it isn't right. If he would call me or email me I am sure we could work something out.

I'd say chogs reputation is 0.0

I don't know the buyer of this game at all. I do know the seller (Cory) and like i said, he's been a fine person to me personally in the limited exposure i've had with him. That doesn't really mean much in this situation, as i'm not buying anything from him. But i will say this... i've heard of guys selling games for big money, and then the buyer does a "remorse" thing after his friends say "you got screwed." And then the buyer tries to back peddle and get money back. I'm NOT saying this is happening here, but i am saying that everyone should keep an open mind and not be too judging (two sides to every story, truth somewhere in the middle, type thing.) Again i've seen guys swap boards and say the one that came with the game was a mess and dadah dadah dadah. NOT saying that happened here, but this is the exact reason why i don't ship games! Local pick up only, you're responsible for inspection, take it and go. When shipping take lots of pictures. This avoids a lot of issues. Also always price games fair (not too expensive) so the whole remorse thing never comes into play. Be transparent with any issues (or fix them properly so there aren't any issues.) But hindsight is always 20/20...

Sounds like there's an opportunity to improve the situation here. Hopefully Choggard realizes the OP paid a premium price for what he presumed was a premium game and works to make amends.

oh man it's popcorn.gif time

Cover the cost of the replacement board and call it even.

Lesson/s learned on both sides.

What does CFH stand for?

Dude, really?

It appears that Cory is trying to work this out. He posted here right in the middle of this mess. Maybe chill a little and give him a chance to make it right.

OK, sat this one out for long enough. On the original for sale post I made a polite hint that Ebay might be a better market for the game (was trying to help any fellow Pinsiders not get screwed, without flat out saying that the game price was out of line) Didn't want to price police someone's F/S thread, but $2300 for a Blackout? Great game, but really?
So my 2 cents here, The OP paid a PREMIUM for this game, it should at least work, please make it good for him.

By the way, here is what my $600 blackout looked like the day I brought it home, just for comparison...

Backglass.jpg

Someone in the distant past put a full sheet of mylar over the back side of the glass, so it was pretty well protected over the years, seen triple thick, but never that, worked pretty well.

playfield.jpg

Settle this like pinball men, you get one pinball leg each, and you have to make lightsaber sounds while dueling.

So THATS what a $2500 Taxi looks like...

Choggard Flippin Hugsc

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j/k

The wrong zip code/ pin traveled further than it should have is a bad excuse. You secure it the same way if its going to be shipped anywhere. Do the right thing and reimburse a portion since securing it is the sellers responsability.

Very interesting about that Taxi!! It was advertised as having a GI issue but all those hacks and other BS.... Surprise!

Wasn't 'just a GI connector' needing to replaced after all...

I got burned as well - was from a "respected" restorer down in FL. I got hosed and I was out more than the OP was. It was the only game I have had shipped, and wasn't able to inspect before I bought it. Last time...

Take this with a grain of salt - but I decided to just let it be and not out the guy but if asked specifically, I would be honest with folks and tell them the facts. I chalked it up to experience and a lesson learned that I had to pay for. I didn't go nuclear because in the end, it might make ME look like a jerk. Pinball is a very small hobby and reputation is everything. If I see someone who is a hard person to sell to or complains alot over trivial things - I won't do business with them.

Again - my .02 that ain't worth a nickle.

Can Fix Hacks

I agree that the pinball hobby is a small world indeed. It takes everyone a while to figure that out, but in the end, that's the bottom line. I think the ultimate "fix" to this issue is that Cory does need to paypal the guy for the whole repair call (board, repair guy's time, etc.) Doing that would go a long way in making this better. Might want to add a little for the backglass fiasco too.

In the end, if say the cost of the original game was $1500, and the sale was $2300, and you had to reimburse $800 (making this a break even), i would say that's getting off cheap. Rack it up to experience, and make better choices in the future. Education isn't free. If in the end this deal becomes a break even, then so be it, i would say that's getting off cheap. Making the buyer happy would be a good reputation restorer. Saying "screw it" and letting him have the game "at cost" isn't such a bad thing. Money is not really that important in the big picture. (Of course that's easy to say if you're not broke!)

Choggs, did the lock fall out during shipping too? The lock you said you said you installed?

i-like-your-style-dude.jpeg

That's simply not true.. He came to my house and played the game and did look it over. That's when he called you from my garage and asked if you could fix the game that week for him. I sold him the game at a cheaper price for that reason because he was going to hire you to fix it. Game was sold as is... At the time I had more than one Taxi to sell and I am glad you were able to fix it for him.

Well the buyer did say it cost him $350 + labor so now you have a ballpark idea.
He also said you have his PayPal info as well

Now its your decision on what you want to do to "make it right" to coin your phrase.

That's interesting. Brad said you wouldn't budge a penny on the price ($1500) on the Taxi. Brad really did want a taxi though. After he got home he found other problems with the game, which is kind of normal. Sometimes you don't see everything at first. He's been telling me that for like a year, if i found a taxi, he wanted it. Which brings up another story... Oh wait, that's for a different thread...

Bottom line is i hope everyone "does the right thing" in the end. Sometimes it takes a longer path to get to the end. But as long as you eventually get there, that's all that matters. Just do the right thing. Believe me, i don't always do the right thing. You have to try though. We're all human, doing the right thing doesn't really come natural, unfortunately. And often pressures from life make doing the right thing difficult. Yet in the end, this kind of stuff defines you. Better to be defined well then poorly.

Sounds like BS on the shipping . So after it ships from Choggard's he (chogie )calls NAVL and tells them they have the wrong Zip code . Who does that ? If the board was that bad ! How did his kid play it ?

Hey can someone please Pm me when the movie comes out. Thanks.

Man just seen this,,, 2300 for a blackout ? These guys prey on people like you, Willing to spend 2300 for a 500 dollar game. Why care about a board repair, You are blowing stupid money away anyways whats a little more? Do some homework next time and stop over paying for machines. Doesn't matter if it work 100% not worth it.

Did you do your homework before making this post? The op thought he was getting a hug mint Blackout. This title may hold special meaning to the op. Please pass along info on where I can get a mint blackout for $500

What bothers me is that I can spot lying a mile away.

In chogs first response in this thread he mentions "just getting home from work" or something like that "and seeing this thread" ...something to that effect.

However, I looked at his profile yesterday early and he was already on the site.

First lie of the day.

You don't like reading the script?

"The Choggard Chronicles".

"The story of a young man trying to make his way in a brutal world, the world that some call "Flipping".
"Even when he thinks he's out, they pull him back in!"
"Can he escape the clutches of the ruthless law that is known as "The Price Police".
"Can he make it a better world by doing the right thing? Or turn his back on society, a society that made him do unimaginable horrors!"
"Can he save his family in time, before the next Craigslist Killer deal pops up, making him cringe with gut wrenching pain at the potential to make hundreds!" "One last deal, then I'm out for good!"
"Will he be banned to a world of Blackout, one filled with Dungeons and Dragons, and no way out as the last Taxi from hell already left!"

Coming to an I-Max near you fall 2014.

Why do all these flippers keep popping up by me? Got one in Flint, and now some in Bay City. Definitely turned into buyer beware in mid-Michigan.

That game should have come with its own repair crew.
circuit-board-workmen_shutterstock_61577563_300.jpg

I am quickly loosing interest in all the hugsC drama. I think I will wait on the dvd, nah I'm out. Not wasting anymore time reading this. I think I have all I need to know. Much better threads out there.

I think people need to back down and give Cory a chance to think and respond. Sometimes life throws a lot of curves and doing the right thing takes a moment of reflection. The true telling of a good human is what they do after the storm. Reaching out and making corrections is a good thing. Hopefully the buyer is receptive to this too. Because if you reach out, and the other party ignores (or worse), that in itself is rather telling.

I remember back a few years my life was imploding and it was really difficult to think about other people's feelings. You tend to back into a corner and fell like the world is coming down on your shoulders, and become self absorbed. We all are human and crap like that happens. but the real test is what you do after the storm passes to make amends, and hope the other humans in your life can rise with you and overlook past mistakes. Because if you rise and they can't, well, they weren't really people you want in your life anyway...

Well said. Everyone makes mistakes. The gang mentality in this group is sickening. Time to step back and let him prove himself either way.

Agreed, I am guilty of being in the gang but it's now time for OP and seller to resolve this.

I agree, I've actually held my tongue here for the most part. I have to imagine the OP has a refund of $800 coming his way.

I do think the mob mentality in this situation is largely due to Choggard's attitude on this site. What goes around comes around.

My 2 cents. If you know of someone out there screwing people and you don't make it known who they are, you are just as bad as they are.

Chog should just come on here and apologize to the site for his shadyness. Just own it. No excuses, buts, what-if, etc. Just own it. It takes a lot of courage to do just that... and that's something I can respect.