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(Topic ID: 107890)

Chinese knock-offs could derail pinball comeback

By SuperPinball

6 years ago

Topic Stats

  • 293 posts
  • 107 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by Chrisbee
  • Topic is favorited by 6 Pinsiders


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    #51 6 years ago

    There were a couple of MMs that looked VERY suspicious a year ago in California.

    If you can get a BOM of $2500 in the USA, think what it would be in China.....

    #65 6 years ago
    Quoted from mrgone:

    If it were more profitible Bally Williams would still be making games.

    Neil wanted pinball dead.

    He would not even sell the pinball division to another company.

    It was important for it to simply rot.

    Ask Gene about it sometime.

    #66 6 years ago
    Quoted from mrgone:

    As for china, they will never make a pinball game worth a dam or one that I will play.

    Stern has a prototype that was completely China made in their factory.

    #75 6 years ago
    Quoted from pin-pimp:

    Customs and shipping companies know all about
    Fakes and copies, it would never happen unless it had the name of the pin changed or something.
    Tons of trade mark, copyright and patent laws would be broken. A company with money, thier smart
    Lawyers, done deal, stopped.

    Except that counterfeit goods are everywhere in the American marketplace.

    Video games (9% fakes), CDs, Blurays, Nike Shoes, Viagra, Prada Purses, Watches (30% of all Rolex are fakes), Vintage Guitars (95% of all vintage guitars on the market are fakes), Electronics (tablets, TVs), children's toys...

    Those are just the counterfeit items bought at regular retail stores, think what is sold at flea markets, gas stations, and "purse parties".

    #81 6 years ago
    Quoted from pin-pimp:

    Much more lucrative markets
    To infiltrate.

    Like airplane parts.

    #100 6 years ago
    Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

    You could not ship that to the US for less then $750 and probably a lot more

    You are joking right?

    You can bring in an entire Container (40x8x8') for $3k from China.

    #101 6 years ago
    Quoted from BMHouze:

    if you leave it plugged in and you machine catches fire

    If there is one thing pinball machines are known for, it's catching fire; especially Williams' games from 77-87 with the unfused rectifiers.

    #103 6 years ago
    Quoted from albummydavis:

    They should not be underestimated, but there is almost no way they will ever make a quality pin.

    They could make a super quality pin at any time.

    Your Iphone, is it not amazing quality?

    How about your Samsung refrigerator? Not good quality for $3500?

    China has no problem meeting any quality point the market needs.

    #109 6 years ago
    Quoted from Gatecrasher:

    Samsung is South Korea not China. That doesn't mean that some of the components aren't made in China though just like they are for just about every American product now days.

    My Samsung frigs says China on it.

    Apple headquarters is in California, but the Iphone is made in China.

    I'm sure you get my drift.....

    #113 6 years ago
    Quoted from PinPatch:

    The playfield ply and cabinet will prob delaminate in a few yeasrs

    Have you used DragonPly yet?

    It will change your opinion about Chinese plywood.

    #144 6 years ago

    Pinball runs on caveman parts mostly designed 70 years ago.

    China is not going to have any problems building a bunch of coils, flashing lights, plywood, and a CPU less powerful than a 20 year old cell phone.

    #146 6 years ago

    Look at it this way.

    Here in the USA I can get a full cabinet, with decals made for $400.

    A screened and cleared playfield for $250.

    A populated MPU circuitboard for $45.

    What do you think those things cost when made in China?

    None of that stuff is rocket science.....

    #150 6 years ago

    Look how advanced "The Pin" is and it retails, delivered to your door, for $2500

    #191 6 years ago

    In 2013 the average factory wage in China was $1.54 (a hour).

    #195 6 years ago
    Quoted from thedefog:

    Eventually their standard of living will match more closely with ours. Their wages will continue to grow, albeit slower now. It will make sense to produce some larger/heavier things domestically again. Eventually this bubble of cheap tech stuff will come to an end as things level out globally.

    They can always just move to Vietnam.

    Wages are .79 cents per hour for good factory workers.

    I went to a bootleg guitar factory in Nam that made perfect replica vintage guitars. And I do mean PERFECT. I took one to a giant vintage guitar show in the USA and every dealer was fighting to buy it. The dealers opened it up, they used microscopes, black lights, you name it - the Vietnamese make the best 70 year old guitars in the world.

    #199 6 years ago
    Quoted from Hwawonyu:

    Any links to buy? I could do with a cheap Les Paul knock off.

    I don't know of any links. I just had my employer send it back to the States for me.

    These are not cheap knock offs, they are perfect replicas that totally fool the experts.

    $160 USD in single quantity in Vietnam. $40,000 USD on the wall at Guitar Center.

    #202 6 years ago
    Quoted from thedefog:

    Didn't know you were into guitars.

    Finding out about the perfect fakes took the fun out of being a collector for me.

    Now unless I see a $200 garage sale bargain, I can only assume that all vintage guitars are fakes.

    When I took the replica to the big guitar show, I actually was hoping that the experts would be able to detect the forgery and point out to me why it was a fake. I wanted to learn some trick that I did not already know.

    Instead, every dealer was waving cash around and telling me "Do not leave this show without seeing me last!".

    #205 6 years ago
    Quoted from thedefog:

    For whatever reason, that model grabbed me.

    I know exactly what you are saying.

    I've got a 20th anniversary Taylor that is simply the greatest acoustic guitar in the world (to me). I bought it at the Guitar Center on Sunset in Hollywood totally on impulse. I sure did not need another guitar, but I could not put it down. I've got older and more valuable guitars, but that Taylor is the shit.

    The action is set so low (from the factory) that friends who only play electric always want to play it.

    1 week later
    #237 6 years ago
    Quoted from maddog14:

    finish the story please

    I did not commit any fraud, and took the guitar home with me.

    I did not really want to sell it, I just wanted the experts to show me how to detect these perfect replicas.

    I still have it. I can take it to a gig or leave it lying on the bed without worrying about having a $40,000 guitar stolen or damaged.

    #244 6 years ago
    Quoted from 2RustyBalls:

    Where do you think a majority of the replacement part come from?

    GPE ?

    #248 6 years ago
    Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

    Aren't vintage guitars all about the wood? The age of the wood directly contributing to the sound (and feel) aesthetics of the instrument?

    Probably more so with acoustic instruments, like where a pinetop has a totally different sound than an Ash top.

    Electric instruments of course have different woods with different tones, but the differences are much smaller.

    Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

    Is perfectly dried, aged wood that easy to fake?

    The wood itself is not fake, just the finishes are aged.

    Wood is already 100s of years old, and luthiers have been carefully drying wood for 1000 years - an art in itself no doubt.

    Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

    I'd like to think I could tell the difference.

    I'd like to think that too, especially after spending a lifetime collecting vintage guitars.

    Unfortunately, neither I, nor any expert I've ever show that guitar to has been able to detect that it is a total forgery.

    #250 6 years ago
    Quoted from PinPatch:

    Wouldn't the chemicals in the paint be different?

    They have mastered that.

    Even under UV light the paint and fade are so amazingly perfect.

    Quoted from PinPatch:

    The wire in the internals be a different color or braid or maybe adifferent gauge? Screws be different, thread type length (talking fractions of millimetres)

    All those things are still made, or are even available surplus and thus truly vintage.

    #254 6 years ago
    Quoted from TheFamilyArcade:

    I heard a story that the main reason Leo Fender sold out to CBS was that his stash of perfectly aged wood had run out. So once he didn't have the super choice wood to make his instruments anymore - the wood that made them play and sound the way they did - he was done. Makes sense to me.

    That's a great story!

    But the truth is that Leo sold Fender for more than the NY Yankees sold for at the time. He had an incurable sinus infection and was rather ill. A year or so latter, a different team of doctors actually cured Leo.

    The moment the non-compete clause in his CBS contract was over in the 70s, Leo had his legendary MusicMan company making guitars (he was a secret partner until the CBS contract expired), and in the late 70s he started G&L guitars (much nicer woods than Fender, better pickups and better tremlo system ).

    3 weeks later
    #267 5 years ago

    China will make any product to any quality standard you are willing to pay for.

    Tube amps and high end stereo equipment? Check.

    Phones, computers, tablets? Check.

    Optics and eyepieces for high end telescopes? Check.

    Great plywood? Check.

    $3500 high end refrigerators? Check.

    When you get something crappy from China, it's because the company importing it only wanted a crappy product.


    Japan used to have the same reputation. "Made in Japan" used to be slang for crappy quality.

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