(Topic ID: 107890)

Chinese knock-offs could derail pinball comeback


By SuperPinball

4 years ago



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  • 293 posts
  • 107 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Chrisbee
  • Topic is favorited by 6 Pinsiders

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    There are 293 posts in this topic. You are on page 4 of 6.
    #151 4 years ago
    Quoted from ZenTron:

    iPhone was designed and engineered by Apple in the USA which is #5 in Fortune 500. The parts are all sourced and supervised by Apple. All thats being done in China is putting the things together aka the manufacturing in buildings which have suicide nets wrapped around them.
    We compare that to a Pinball made with parts we have no idea where they came from, being supervised by not someone we know. Most likely if you order one, it would come with lead balls, toxic paint and an electrical system that would burn your house down.

    once again, I point out HOMEPIN
    Mike has a factory and will supervise production
    most parts will be built inhouse

    I have ordered a Thunderbirds machine and expect delivery in Q3 2015

    #152 4 years ago

    Hahaha LMFAO

    Quoted from foxtj24:

    just did a chat with the supplier,

    Will they all be the one of a kind prototype earthshaker re-theme as you pictured?
    uk1016230856(2014-11-01 16:50:01):
    yes

    #153 4 years ago
    Quoted from o-din:

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    #154 4 years ago

    Popbumberpete, how much is the thunderbirds pin gonna cost you in total?

    #155 4 years ago
    Quoted from SuperPinball:

    Popbumberpete, how much is the thunderbirds pin gonna cost you in total?

    Not sure what the shipping cost will be, but I am expecting mike to ship these over by the container to his distributors here in Australia

    I got in at the start, the price then was $5432.10 (AUD$)

    Mike has not shown much, even on the Australian pinball forums
    but if you want to get a feel for his dedication to quality, go on the Aussie forums and search for his threads about Hankin cocktail video tables

    #156 4 years ago
    Quoted from ahdelarge:

    Would current remakes of old games be more palatable for $4000 and made in China?

    Yes - It's called Capitalism.

    If it's cheaper then people will buy it. Doesn't matter where it comes from.

    #157 4 years ago
    Quoted from GoodManners:

    Yes - It's called Capitalism.
    If it's cheaper then people will buy it. Doesn't matter where it comes from.

    I'd consider buying a Medieval Madness or Monster Bash re-make, made in China at a reasonable price (e.g. Homepin's $54321 AUD Thunderbirds pricing). These things are costing over $10,000 in Australia and I think that is way too much for me to stomach.

    #158 4 years ago

    As I sit here on my iPad, I think to myself; I'd buy a pinball machine that was made in china. Why not? It's not like pinball is rocket science and China can send up rockets. Their ability to manufacture ANY product is already proven.

    Any "cheap" "crappy" "Chinese POS" was designed that way by someone just looking to make a quick buck. China has proven its ability to build good quality reliable products, like my iPad.

    #159 4 years ago

    I wonder if Tim Cook is hand-weaving the suicide nets himself to ensure their quality.

    Quoted from ZenTron:

    iPhone was designed and engineered by Apple in the USA which is #5 in Fortune 500. The parts are all sourced and supervised by Apple. All thats being done in China is putting the things together aka the manufacturing in buildings which have suicide nets wrapped around them.

    #160 4 years ago
    Quoted from ahdelarge:

    I'd consider buying a Medieval Madness or Monster Bash re-make, made in China at a reasonable price (e.g. Homepin's $54321 AUD Thunderbirds pricing). These things are costing over $10,000 in Australia and I think that is way too much for me to stomach.

    I pre ordered a Medieval Madness LE for $8000 US. I sure that if that if it were made in China it would cost half that and have the same quality. My wife still isn't speaking to me since I ordered the pin.

    #161 4 years ago

    The great thing about women is that they get over $8000 pinball purchases quickly and don't hold grudges. Haha

    Did you explain the importance of securing a great game cheaper than buying secondhand?

    #162 4 years ago
    Quoted from WonkoTSane:

    128GB micro SD cards for $12 USD

    Bet they're epic write speed and oh-so-reliable too.

    #163 4 years ago
    Quoted from PW79:

    Says Mr "libelous" himself lol

    Yeah, the real difference is that his competitor isn't anal or classless enough to come on here all butthurt about it and threaten to sue him unless he removes his remarks. Or just tell the mods to do it. =Þ

    #164 4 years ago
    Quoted from SuperPinball:

    I pre ordered a Medieval Madness LE for $8000 US. I sure that if that if it were made in China it would cost half that and have the same quality. My wife still isn't speaking to me since I ordered the pin.

    It depends on what percentage of the production costs of a pinball is in the human assembly time.

    My understanding that it is really only human wages that are cheaper in China. That and local supply chain efficiencies, which isn't much of a factor for extremely low volumes that pinballs are produced in.

    #165 4 years ago

    Everyone forgets when the western world not longer has the capacity to manufacture goods do you really think prices will stay so low?

    #166 4 years ago
    Quoted from PinPatch:

    Everyone forgets when the western world not longer has the capacity to manufacture goods do you really think prices will stay so low?

    That's actually the scary part. China first wiped out manufacturing throughout the western world to the point where we cant even make an underwear for ourselves then they can charge anything they like.

    #167 4 years ago
    Quoted from SuperPinball:

    That's actually the scary part. China first wiped out manufacturing throughout the western world to the point where we cant even make an underwear for ourselves then they can charge anything they like.

    Then they used the mountains of cash they made from the western worlds insatiable appetite for cheap consumption to buy western world assets.

    http://www.smh.com.au/business/property/chinese-making-90-of-property-bids-in-portugal-20141104-11gjfe.html

    #168 4 years ago
    Quoted from SolarRide:

    I wonder if Tim Cook is hand-weaving the suicide nets himself to ensure their quality.

    Why always just let Tim take all the glory? The CEOs of these companies will need to join in weaving the nets as they all are huge customers of Foxconn too:

    Acer (Taiwan)
    Amazon.com (USA)
    Cisco (USA)
    Dell (USA)
    Hewlett-Packard (USA)
    Intel (USA)
    Microsoft (USA)
    Motorola Mobility (USA)
    Nintendo (Japan)
    Nokia (Finnland)
    Sony (Japan)
    Toshiba (Japan)
    Vizio (USA)
    Samsung (Korea)

    #169 4 years ago
    Quoted from SuperPinball:

    That's actually the scary part. China first wiped out manufacturing throughout the western world to the point where we cant even make an underwear for ourselves then they can charge anything they like.

    I only drive German cars.
    And...I only wear underwear made in Germany (and their suppliers are German, too!).
    In general i never touch any clothes made in Asia.

    You just need to get informed and be consistent.

    There are only very few things, mainly high-tech products, which are not avalaible manufactured in western countries. The problem is that people are often cheap and sell their ideals for (saving) money.

    #170 4 years ago
    Quoted from someoneelse:

    I only drive German cars.
    And...I only wear underwear made in Germany (and their suppliers are German, too!).
    In general i never touch any clothes made in Asia.
    You just need to get informed and be consistent.
    There are only very few things, mainly high-tech products, which are not avalaible manufactured in western countries. The problem is that people are often cheap and sell their ideals for (saving) money.

    How difficult is it to buy German? Do they make it real easy like with labels, or do you have to research what is truly German made through and through to know for sure?

    #171 4 years ago
    Quoted from rommy:

    How difficult is it to buy German? Do they make it real easy like with labels, or do you have to research what is truly German made through and through to know for sure?

    It depends, the country where products are manufactured always has to be named on the label (but i guess that's international law). Many German companies add their own additional info as they are proud to be producing in Germany...this is what's written on the box of my underwear ( ):

    Fabric (MicroModal): Austria
    Weaving: Germany
    Sewing Cotton: Germany
    Labels: Germany
    Cardboard/Box: Germany
    Production / Assembly: Germany

    #172 4 years ago

    Do they really have suicide nets around chinese plants? Talk about hating your job. Thank god for the red white and blue.

    #173 4 years ago

    Tim drew the longest straw.

    Quoted from someoneelse:

    Why always just let Tim take all the glory? The CEOs of these companies will need to join in weaving the nets as they all are huge customers of Foxconn too:
    Acer (Taiwan)
    Amazon.com (USA)
    Cisco (USA)
    Dell (USA)
    Hewlett-Packard (USA)
    Intel (USA)
    Microsoft (USA)
    Motorola Mobility (USA)
    Nintendo (Japan)
    Nokia (Finnland)
    Sony (Japan)
    Toshiba (Japan)
    Vizio (USA)
    Samsung (Korea)

    #174 4 years ago

    Apple's US buildings aren't that far above the ground, just a couple stories I think.

    Quoted from tjohns14:

    Do they really have suicide nets around chinese plants? Talk about hating your job. Thank god for the red white and blue.

    #175 4 years ago

    These are those football themed bingo machines, I played one last year in Cambodia but had no idea what was going on because the writing was in Chinese. Apparently in China they have no idea what a pinball machine is, Mike from Homepin is doing pretty much all of his machines in his own factory so copies don't start turning up like when someone gets something made in China.

    #176 4 years ago
    Quoted from GoodManners:

    Yes - It's called Capitalism.
    If it's cheaper then people will buy it. Doesn't matter where it comes from.

    I don't think that's the exact equation. People have principles, but they'll put a limited value on them.
    I think most people would pay 10, 15% extra for something made in the US over something made in China.
    Some people would pay 100% extra, some 0%, but for most people I think the number is somewhere in between.
    Especially for luxury, collector items like pinball machines, I think that this number is on the higher side than commodities like a fridge or a phone.

    #177 4 years ago

    It's very high. We pay on pinballs. I pay it in bike gear . I don't wear harley jackets ( made in China) I wear Areo leather ( Scottish) and Lost World (us) . Boots by Wesco ( us) and gloves by grifter ( us).
    But it takes research and costs more.

    #178 4 years ago

    ok gotta say it, zizzles were mfg'd someplace Asian, and for a big toy at the price asked, not bad!
    JPop designed and I think they went too cheap-lightweight with wire, electronics, switches etc but it does show they're fully capable of producing something very cool for 1000-1500 bucks if enough interest were shown that they thought it profitable, its pretty simple. IMHO theyed do better with the production and shipping of virtual machines that can play 100 different titles at that kind of price, or less. with everything already made there (tv screens, computers, speakers, etc.), it leaves it just a matter of assembly and packaging. people on budgets like mine just might gobble them up, it could double up as a tv, a 2.1 stereo too with additional sat speakers plugged in, why not?

    it could put a BIG dent into the real machines (that I do like much more!) too, sadly.

    #179 4 years ago
    Quoted from Hwawonyu:

    It's very high. We pay on pinballs. I pay it in bike gear . I don't wear harley jackets ( made in China) I wear Areo leather ( Scottish) and Lost World (us) . Boots by Wesco ( us) and gloves by grifter ( us).
    But it takes research and costs more.

    Right, which is why you can't do it for every little thing in life, but you have a higher probability of doing it for stuff you're passionate about. Pinball probably being one of those things since you're on this forum.

    #180 4 years ago

    New Technology China Game!

    Adam Family!

    3,000 Games In One!

    Super Gun Fun Time!

    #181 4 years ago
    Quoted from PhilGreg:

    Right, which is why you can't do it for every little thing in life, but you have a higher probability of doing it for stuff you're passionate about.

    Does this conclude i'm passionate about my underwear???

    #182 4 years ago

    Has anyone ever ordered one of these?

    #183 4 years ago
    Quoted from someoneelse:

    Does this conclude i'm passionate about my underwear???

    I know I am!

    #184 4 years ago

    If people were generally willing to pay 15%-20% more for U.S. made goods I don't think Walmart would be a prominent as it is today. The fact that Walmart is China's second largest trading partner proves that the majority of people will drop patriotism for savings. Therefore a Chinese manufactured pinball machine could potentially be accepted with the same enthusiasm.

    #185 4 years ago

    Welcome to the club

    #186 4 years ago
    Quoted from SuperPinball:

    If people were generally willing to pay 15%-20% more for U.S. made goods I don't think Walmart would be a prominent as it is today. The fact that Walmart is China's second largest trading partner proves that the majority of people will drop patriotism for savings. Therefore a Chinese manufactured pinball machine could potentially be accepted with the same enthusiasm.

    Are Wal-Mart prices 10-15% less than the American equivalent though, or more like 50% less?

    #187 4 years ago

    Bought a cheap Chinese made bench grinder stand @ Harbor freight last week. Was not expecting much - but damn, it's well made & sturdy.

    #188 4 years ago

    How many man hours does it take to make a stern or jjp pin on their assembly line?
    Im guessing 8 to 10 . Average assembly worker in the usa gets what 12 to 15 bucks an hour, so manufacture labour is what 120 to 200 a machine say even 400. Labour in China say 3 bucks an hour or 40 to 100 a unit.

    There is not going to be a 3k to 4k saving especially when you add shipping handling costs not to mention quality control staff to supervise the workforce etc etc.

    #189 4 years ago
    Quoted from PinPatch:

    How many man hours does it take to make a stern or jjp pin on their assembly line?
    Im guessing 8 to 10 . Average assembly worker in the usa gets what 12 to 15 bucks an hour, so manufacture labour is what 120 to 200 a machine say even 400. Labour in China say 3 bucks an hour or 40 to 100 a unit.
    There is not going to be a 3k to 4k saving especially when you add shipping handling costs not to mention quality control staff to supervise the workforce etc etc.

    3 bucks an hour??? Really???
    Have to travel to Eastern Europe for my job quite often. If a normal factory worker in Bulgaria get's more than 1USD an hour that's very good pay! If you go more to the countryside you're WAY below 1 buck.

    #190 4 years ago
    Quoted from benheck:

    New Technology China Game!
    Adam Family!
    3,000 Games In One!
    Super Gun Fun Time!

    You mean Famiry

    #191 4 years ago

    In 2013 the average factory wage in China was $1.54 (a hour).

    #192 4 years ago

    Listen to this interview with Mike Kalinowski from HomePin. He's building an entire factory in China, just to build pinballs for export.

    "The man behind the industry’s newest pinball manufacturer (and Australia’s first pin in over 30 years) – Mike Kalinowski speaks exclusively about building a pinball factory from the ground up, the THUNDERBIRDS PINBALL MACHINE & what else will be on the production line at HOMEPIN PINBALL!"

    http://traffic.libsyn.com/pinheadz/PPP004.mp3

    #193 4 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    In 2013 the average factory wage in China was $1.54

    per year?

    #194 4 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    In 2013 the average factory wage in China was $1.54

    Eventually their standard of living will match more closely with ours. Their wages will continue to grow, albeit slower now. It will make sense to produce some larger/heavier things domestically again. Eventually this bubble of cheap tech stuff will come to an end as things level out globally.

    Currently they make 1/15th of what an American factory worker makes per hour, but their housing costs are 1/3 of what we pay in the US and food costs are roughly 1/2 as much (although often at a much lower quality). Give it 10 years and their wages will at least double that and they'll start having health benefits. In other words, I hope you're diversifying your investments.

    #195 4 years ago
    Quoted from thedefog:

    Eventually their standard of living will match more closely with ours. Their wages will continue to grow, albeit slower now. It will make sense to produce some larger/heavier things domestically again. Eventually this bubble of cheap tech stuff will come to an end as things level out globally.

    They can always just move to Vietnam.

    Wages are .79 cents per hour for good factory workers.

    I went to a bootleg guitar factory in Nam that made perfect replica vintage guitars. And I do mean PERFECT. I took one to a giant vintage guitar show in the USA and every dealer was fighting to buy it. The dealers opened it up, they used microscopes, black lights, you name it - the Vietnamese make the best 70 year old guitars in the world.

    #196 4 years ago

    Any links to buy? I could do with a cheap Les Paul knock off.

    #197 4 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    They can always just move to Vietnam.
    Wages are .79 cents per hour for good factory workers.
    I went to a bootleg guitar factory in Nam that made perfect replica vintage guitars. And I do mean PERFECT. I took one to a giant vintage guitar show in the USA and every dealer was fighting to buy it. The dealers opened it up, they used microscopes, black lights, you name it - the Vietnamese make the best 70 year old guitars in the world.

    You're correct. Then their standard of living will raise eventually. I guess my point is that things will level out with this many people on the planet. Our standard of living is going to decrease regardless, and it will really fast unless we make some tough choices soon.

    BTW, I own a Vietnamese Telecaster copy. Cost me $120, put in new saddles, cut a new nut for it, new pickups, new pots and cavity shielding (tin foil), so throw in another $80, then did a fret job on it and it plays better than my 2002 American Telecaster. It plays better than most the vintage guitars I've touched over the years in honesty. Didn't know you were into guitars.

    #198 4 years ago
    Quoted from Hwawonyu:

    Any links to buy? I could do with a cheap Les Paul knock off.

    www.rondomusic.com
    I have to admit those Agile Les Pauls are as good as the $8,000 ones, no joke. They just need to be set up right and usually need decent PAF pickups in there. The stock pickups aren't really 1/2 bad. They are Korean made.

    #199 4 years ago
    Quoted from Hwawonyu:

    Any links to buy? I could do with a cheap Les Paul knock off.

    I don't know of any links. I just had my employer send it back to the States for me.

    These are not cheap knock offs, they are perfect replicas that totally fool the experts.

    $160 USD in single quantity in Vietnam. $40,000 USD on the wall at Guitar Center.

    #200 4 years ago
    Quoted from thedefog:

    Eventually their standard of living will match more closely with ours. Their wages will continue to grow, albeit slower now. It will make sense to produce some larger/heavier things domestically again. Eventually this bubble of cheap tech stuff will come to an end as things level out globally.
    Currently they make 1/15th of what an American factory worker makes per hour, but their housing costs are 1/3 of what we pay in the US and food costs are roughly 1/2 as much (although often at a much lower quality). Give it 10 years and their wages will at least double that and they'll start having health benefits. In other words, I hope you're diversifying your investments.

    Their wages could rise 500% in the next decade and still only be 1/2 our manufacturing wage. And that assumes our wages dont go up a cent.

    Its going to be very long time until we can compete on that level domestically...If ever. Frankly, not sure why we would want to.

    Even if Chinas wages went up 1000% we'd simply move to the next 3rd world country to exploit cheap labor. There's no shortage of it...Nor are there shortages of countries that would LOVE US manufacturing investment.

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