(Topic ID: 107890)

Chinese knock-offs could derail pinball comeback


By SuperPinball

4 years ago



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  • 293 posts
  • 107 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by Chrisbee
  • Topic is favorited by 6 Pinsiders

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    #51 4 years ago

    There were a couple of MMs that looked VERY suspicious a year ago in California.

    If you can get a BOM of $2500 in the USA, think what it would be in China.....

    #52 4 years ago
    Quoted from SuperPinball:

    I just came across what looks like an Avengers Pinball game that can be produced for US $180 - 999 new at 300 units/month by a company in China. This could potentially ruin the pinball industry in the US and UK. Has anyone come across a machine that might have originated from China?
    http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Electric-hot-sale-pinball-Pinball-machine_1758522638.html

    Well that finally explains a lot of things......

    -1
    #53 4 years ago
    Quoted from JerseyJack:

    Well that finally explains a lot of things......

    Are you insinuating that Stern games are made in China? Not understanding what has been explained.

    #54 4 years ago
    Quoted from pin-pimp:

    Edit, the wifes looking into it, see it its a real company. She's from near that city

    HEY! AT LEAST THEY COME WITH COIN MECHS!!!

    11
    #55 4 years ago
    Quoted from JerseyJack:

    Well that finally explains a lot of things......

    Says Mr "libelous" himself lol

    #57 4 years ago
    Quoted from Pintucky:

    HEY! AT LEAST THEY COME WITH COIN MECHS!!!

    Yes, a chinese clone will supply two chinese made coin mechs while the usa clones make us pay for the chinese made coin mechs. That's total BS.

    #58 4 years ago

    I bet the coils don't last a week before they burn up in the Chinese pins

    #59 4 years ago

    Lighten up guys , that obvious joke was pretty funny. I could see games like the PIN being made in China and sold here in the states for $500-800 a pop

    #60 4 years ago
    Quoted from islandpinball:

    Lighten up guys , that obvious joke was pretty funny. I could see games like the PIN being made in China and sold here in the states for $500-800 a pop

    I'm in for an Avengers version.
    I have had Hulk - Pro so its a natural progression for me.
    I did offer 1k for 'The Pin" on ebay not too long ago.

    #61 4 years ago

    If I had a million bucks I would probably have one of these companies make a limited release of a thousand pins. Exact duplicates of any of the top ten pins and sell them for $2000 each. Who wouldn't want a brand new Twighlight Zone or Addams Family for $2000. I would sell out within a year and make a cool million in profit.

    #62 4 years ago

    The pic is wrong, that's all.

    What they're actually selling are Bingo pinballs. I stumbled upon them back in 2010. There are several manufacturers in China and it seems most of their market is Central and South America. They make a lot of soccer themed games.

    I contacted one manufacturer and they sent me a price list. Each game was $500 and another $500 to ship. They could set them up for payout or for redemption in order to comply with the buyer's local laws. Most use plastic balls. Some have full LCD screens.

    I think bingos might be cool for a small, non-conventional casino. Someone who works in that business said the big casinos would not be interested because the gameplay was too long and they take up too much space.

    #63 4 years ago

    There are companies in China that can recreate any pin you like if you have the coin to invest in about 1000+ units. They have the industrial base and the capabilities. People were talking 15 years ago about China not being able to make any descent products like irons and hair dryers. Look at them now. I really don't understand how Medieval Madness Remake could go for $8000. Electronics have become very cheap and the design is already done. Someone is making a buck and not the razor thin profits they have us believe.

    #64 4 years ago
    Quoted from SuperPinball:

    There are companies in China that can recreate any pin you like if you have the coin to invest in about 1000+ units. They have the industrial base and the capabilities. People were talking 15 years ago about China not being able to make any descent products like irons and hair dryers. Look at them now. I really don't understand how Medieval Madness Remake could go for $8000. Electronics have become very cheap and the design is already done. Someone is making a buck and not the razor thin profits they have us believe.

    Clearly you know nothing about manufacturing in America,
    I would not say razor thin but it's not the cash cow you might think it is.
    If it were more profitible Bally Williams would still be making games.

    There are many,many expenditures you may or may not be aware of.
    That is why there is so little manufacturing in America today.

    As for china, they will never make a pinball game worth a dam or one that I will play.

    #65 4 years ago
    Quoted from mrgone:

    If it were more profitible Bally Williams would still be making games.

    Neil wanted pinball dead.

    He would not even sell the pinball division to another company.

    It was important for it to simply rot.

    Ask Gene about it sometime.

    #66 4 years ago
    Quoted from mrgone:

    As for china, they will never make a pinball game worth a dam or one that I will play.

    Stern has a prototype that was completely China made in their factory.

    #67 4 years ago

    mrgone your statements are contradictory. I am fully aware of manufacturing in America as well as the costs associated (Fixed vs Variable costs). When a product becomes more labor intensive the Chinese company has an advantage. Costs to produce goods in the U.S. are far too high to be competitive. That is why there is so little manufacturing in America today. Why do you feel that a pinball machine is any different than any other manufactured good?

    Quoted from mrgone:

    As for china, they will never make a pinball game worth a dam or one that I will play

    How could you make such a statement? especially since you did so sitting in a chair most likely made in china, typing on a keyboard made in china and looking at a monitor that is made in china. If you want more info you can call someone on your made in china iPhone. China sent a person into space and should not be underestimated.

    #68 4 years ago

    Like Primus says, "everything now is made in China"

    #69 4 years ago

    These machines are much too light in weight (125 and 150 lbs.) to be anything close to what the picture or description shown.

    #70 4 years ago
    Quoted from JerseyJack:

    Well that finally explains a lot of things......

    Badmouthing Stern? Jack must think he's at a pinball expo.

    #71 4 years ago

    China manufacturers have become far more advanced than we would have ever thought possible. My main hobby is RC planes and helis (reason for my Avatar) For some time copies of quality Japanese made R/C products were showing up. A few differences helped distinguish the copy. some were good some not so. More recently the copies have become real good. So good that people have accepted them and now they are being produced as there own brand for a fraction of the "quality" products. Costs are in the range of 20 to 50% of what the top brands would cost. Most of the planes we fly are produced in China and the quality of some is as good as if they were produced elsewhere and would cost double the price. So I do believe that they could produce a run of a pinball clone for much less than $8000. Do they understand pinball well enough to produce a new machine that would sell well? Maybe not.

    #72 4 years ago

    all I know is I am contacting FeiFei ASAP! Bet she will hook up a great deal!

    (anyone else see her on the ad? I am totally sure that who would answer the phone.)

    60x60.jpg

    #73 4 years ago

    Making a pin in China is one thing, but importing a copy is totaly illegal.
    Stern could get that stopped in 5 seconds. Customs and shipping companies know all about
    Fakes and copies, it would never happen unless it had the name of the pin changed or something.
    Tons of trade mark, copyright and patent laws would be broken. A company with money, thier smart
    Lawyers, done deal, stopped.

    -1
    #74 4 years ago
    Quoted from SuperPinball:

    mrgone your statements are contradictory. I am fully aware of manufacturing in America as well as the costs associated (Fixed vs Variable costs). When a product becomes more labor intensive the Chinese company has an advantage. Costs to produce goods in the U.S. are far too high to be competitive. That is why there is so little manufacturing in America today. Why do you feel that a pinball machine is any different than any other manufactured good?

    How could you make such a statement? especially since you did so sitting in a chair most likely made in china, typing on a keyboard made in china and looking at a monitor that is made in china. If you want more info you can call someone on your made in china iPhone. China sent a person into space and should not be underestimated.

    I will tell you why. pinball,rock and roll, coca cola, the Frisbee, fish sticks, pop rocks and me. all made in America. all created in America.china quit being awesome when they went red. end of story. America! and yes, that includes Canada, land of good beer, hockey, and maple. oh, and back bacon.

    #75 4 years ago
    Quoted from pin-pimp:

    Customs and shipping companies know all about
    Fakes and copies, it would never happen unless it had the name of the pin changed or something.
    Tons of trade mark, copyright and patent laws would be broken. A company with money, thier smart
    Lawyers, done deal, stopped.

    Except that counterfeit goods are everywhere in the American marketplace.

    Video games (9% fakes), CDs, Blurays, Nike Shoes, Viagra, Prada Purses, Watches (30% of all Rolex are fakes), Vintage Guitars (95% of all vintage guitars on the market are fakes), Electronics (tablets, TVs), children's toys...

    Those are just the counterfeit items bought at regular retail stores, think what is sold at flea markets, gas stations, and "purse parties".

    16
    #76 4 years ago
    Quoted from BLACK_ROSE:

    It wouldn't Surprise me 1 bit ,, USA sends Our American raised Chicken meat to China , then they sQueeze the Schitt out of it and use that mess to produce some Shapely lOOk-n nugget that Our kid's R eating in School's , McD's etc .. ( i know its made of Schitt , but it Sure tastes gOod )
    So , an American Stern lOok-a-like Pinball made N China ,, Yea I can C it happening ...
    Pin-Pimp , does yr wife have a sister here N the States , I hear the Chinese women R Very Loyal 2 their spouse's .. I Love Chinese food , so I believe that Would b a gOOd Start for a relationship .

    Jesus, I have a hard time reading anything you write.

    -3
    #77 4 years ago

    Sounds like you have comprehension issues. May be best to avoid inter webs and Twitter .

    13
    #78 4 years ago
    Quoted from robotron911:

    Jesus, I have a hard time reading anything you write.

    I speak drunken pirate and I am happy to translate.

    #79 4 years ago

    I agree, there are fakes everywhere. Smaller ones much eisier to smuggle in than larger items I would think. Such a high profile thing like a pin prob harder to pull off.
    Coming through customs I have been asked if I had any fake rolexs or Prada stuff in my bags.
    I said no because I was wearing it on my wrist, so technically I wasnt lying. Lol
    I saw that that stuff everywhere there. Just feel the market on a pinball is so much smaller than a cd or tv or a shoe or guitar that it would t be worth the trouble. Much more lucrative markets
    To infiltrate.

    #80 4 years ago

    Lol! Awesome !

    #81 4 years ago
    Quoted from pin-pimp:

    Much more lucrative markets
    To infiltrate.

    Like airplane parts.

    #82 4 years ago
    Quoted from mrgone:

    I will tell you why. pinball,rock and roll, coca cola, the Frisbee, fish sticks, pop rocks and me. all made in America. all created in America.china quit being awesome when they went red. end of story. America! and yes, that includes Canada, land of good beer, hockey, and maple. oh, and back bacon.

    Hot women too.

    #83 4 years ago

    Says it weighs 124 lbs in the specs

    #84 4 years ago

    What is with the misinformation?

    I buy arcade pcb boards all the time from China and have come across these pinball ads before.

    They are wrong. It is their way of trying to get business.

    No they do not sell Stern knockoff machines. They do not sell pinball machines as all.

    They do sell pachinko, arcade cabinets, cocktail machines, redemption machines etc.
    They even sell parts, coils, switches, buttons, microchips, circuit boards and coinmechs.

    The reason they have a pinball machine in the pic is because they sell to the arcade industry.

    Also where do you think your flipperbuttons, cherry switches, some printed circuit boards, leds, leg levelers, led DMD components, color coded wire, lcd displays come from. Not the U.S or anywhere in North America

    I can guarantee you they are not manufactured in the U.S.
    Assembled in the U.S.
    But not made

    #85 4 years ago
    Quoted from JAXPinball:

    Says it weighs 124 lbs in the specs

    Yeah, that's right. Gravity is exactly half as strong in China. USA weight would be 248 lbs. I used to be in the export business (latex).

    There's a gravity/country conversion tool at the bottom of the page. Scroll down. Way, way, way down.

    #86 4 years ago
    Quoted from SuperPinball:

    mrgone your statements are contradictory. I am fully aware of manufacturing in America as well as the costs associated (Fixed vs Variable costs). When a product becomes more labor intensive the Chinese company has an advantage. Costs to produce goods in the U.S. are far too high to be competitive. That is why there is so little manufacturing in America today. Why do you feel that a pinball machine is any different than any other manufactured good?

    How could you make such a statement? especially since you did so sitting in a chair most likely made in china, typing on a keyboard made in china and looking at a monitor that is made in china. If you want more info you can call someone on your made in china iPhone. China sent a person into space and should not be underestimated.

    They should not be underestimated, but there is almost no way they will ever make a quality pin. And I venture to say that any company that contracts them to do so will be out of business w/in a year.

    Take the number of problems you have with domestic pins. Multiply it by 10. At least. As someone who manufactures some product in China, I'd say that's a safe bet. In areas where labor is cheap, service is not an issue. In the US, it will be a disaster. Add in the hidden cost of having games shipped to the US. At least 300 a game, plus expenses. Factor in damages from handling, corrosive sea air, and you'll have more hidden costs. Then there's always shipping costs once product arrives in the US.

    Are the Chinese capable of doing this if it was considered an issue of national economic importance? Sure. But it's not. I think the comparison of pins to cars is not invalid here. It will be a long time before we see a viable, quality Chinese car sold in the US. I've driven Chinese built VW's. Ugh. Were the Chinese to apply the same incentives to pinball machines as computers, televisions, electronics, and automobiles, it could happen. But the very things that make pinball appealing to us-the physical precision, attention to detail, etc., make this perhaps even more challenging than building an iphone.

    #87 4 years ago

    You could not ship that to the US for less then $750 and probably a lot more

    I don't see them making a full size machine for $1,000 plus they don't have the licensing rights so it would be illegal to sell - at least in this country.

    #88 4 years ago

    Plus you have the added problem that they may not conform to safety standards. So, if you leave it plugged in and you machine catches fire there's going to be trouble getting insurance to pay for your non safety standards approved machine.
    That's one of the main reasons I don't buy US electronics and bring them home to Canada. Damn TVs sure are cheaper but they don't have that CSA sticker to prove they meet Canadian safety standards.

    #89 4 years ago

    If the Chinese really made the game at least they would have put a LCD screen by now

    #90 4 years ago

    China can produce anything, of any quality, at a price point (including shipping) well below the US. To ramp up that operation takes a ton of work though and ongoing oversight. Frankly, if stern is happy with their margins I doubt they'd outsource the assembly (they are just putting together the machines in the US) to china.

    #91 4 years ago
    Quoted from pin-pimp:

    I've also seen shipping labels with diferent items listed than the actual parts that have been shipped. For ease of customs i would think.

    Yup, this happens all the time. I've had to disqualify a # of potential suppliers because they pulled stunts like this. It wasn't necessarily for ease of customs into the US or Europe, it was because the company didn't want to spend the RMB and take the time to get the Chinese certificate that allowed them to export the sample they were sending. So they slap on a label of something they are already certified to ship.

    #92 4 years ago

    Is there any meaningful Chinese export of Autos?

    #93 4 years ago

    "The machine Total 5 balls, 20 holes, each hole has at least two patterns and a word or number that increases your winning category"

    Lol yeah sounds like an Avengers....

    #94 4 years ago
    Quoted from vid1900:

    Stern has a prototype that was completely China made in their factory.

    I heard they use that as a base to find ways to make them cheaper.

    #95 4 years ago
    Quoted from JAXPinball:

    Is there any meaningful Chinese export of Autos?

    Not a ton but China does produce more cars than any other country in the world and exports well over a million a year.

    Including Volvos (which of course is Geely)

    #96 4 years ago

    is the code complete though?

    #97 4 years ago

    Best code! A number one! You like.

    #98 4 years ago

    $999.00 for an Avenger? That's too much.

    #99 4 years ago
    Quoted from phishrace:

    I used to be in the export business (latex).

    Did you import also.

    #100 4 years ago
    Quoted from BMore-Pinball:

    You could not ship that to the US for less then $750 and probably a lot more

    You are joking right?

    You can bring in an entire Container (40x8x8') for $3k from China.

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