(Topic ID: 163582)

Children and pinball

By gstellenberg

5 years ago


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  • 22 posts
  • 11 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 months ago by jellikit
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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13
#1 5 years ago

Being a multi-game capable platform, the P3 can deliver games with complex shot layouts and deep rulesets that traditional pinball players typically enjoy. With the addition of technology to which today's consumers can easily relate, it can also deliver varying gameplay styles, complexities, and rule difficulties to make pinball an experience that everybody can enjoy.

Most of you already know about Lexy Lightspeed - Escape From Earth, the first game we developed for the P3, with a concept and playfield layout by Dennis Nordman, audio by David Thiel, game graphics by Rory Cernuda, and artwork by Scott Gullicks. Shown below are two videos showcasing young kids enjoying different games on the P3: Cannon Lagoon and Barnyard.

The game library for the P3 will continue to grow as we work through our own roadmap of games and as more 3rd party developers take advantage of our open platform paradigm. While delivering traditional-style games is of huge importance to us, we're also doing our best to create content that can help foster growth in the community and bring new people to the hobby. If the reactions by these kids is any indication, we're on the right path.

(Note - Videos posted with permission from the parents)

We're always open to comments, suggestions, and criticisms. Feel free to reply here or PM me. Ultimately, we're trying to deliver a platform and games that everybody can enjoy. The uniquely modular and multi-game capabilities of the P3 platform make that possible.

- Gerry
http://www.multimorphic.com

#2 5 years ago

Cannon lagoon being timed based, per level, vs ball based certainly is a better fit for the novice. Having said that, for a non traditional style of play, it is surprisingly addicting. I guess that sort of comes with the concept of shorter term goals of completing levels.

#3 5 years ago
Quoted from gstellenberg:

We're always open to comments, suggestions, and criticisms.

More kids the better! But we must teach out younglins the #1 important thing in pinball & life - NO CHIMP FLIPPING!

2 months later
#4 5 years ago

Trouble is children don't have the money to buy one. I don't think it's possible to sell many in the near future at anywhere near the price i've seen mentioned. Yes you can get extra games but the initial cost is way too high imo.

#5 5 years ago
Quoted from jungle:

Trouble is children don't have the money to buy one. I don't think it's possible to sell many in the near future at anywhere near the price i've seen mentioned. Yes you can get extra games but the initial cost is way too high imo.

have you looked at pinball pricing of late? Not like children are buying those either (and lat time I looked kids don't buy pinball machines). This is really not out of line considering the value of what this provides with multiple games, on day 1. Certainly not cheap or a "bargain", but given the cost of additional games and the fact a few are included, the cost per game will get quite low. It is also the only thing I have seen where you can have games that are simple enough for a kid or a novice adult to understand the rules/objective and to play and enjoy.

#6 5 years ago

Pinheads buy pinball machines. You are mainly looking to sell outside of that tiny world. I think your competition in the "real world " is not pinball machines. It is i-pad games / video games on tv's. Yes your game is a pinball machine. But non-pinheads will wonder whether it's worth paying $1000 or less for a fun game/s without flippers ( that doesn't take up half the room ) or $10000 for a fun game/s with flippers.

I think the tech is brilliant but that is another matter. I hope I'm wrong and you do get big sales

#7 5 years ago
Quoted from jungle:

Pinheads buy pinball machines. You are mainly looking to sell outside of that tiny world.

I've never heard Gerry say his goal is to sell outside of pinball, no way you can find a bunch of video game guys to drop 10K on this just because it has a video screen. Could af ew deeper pockets busy do it, sure, but no way can I see that as the business model. I am sure he could see this as a great fit in video/redemption arcades as it could be attractive with it's kid oriented games, that are level/time based and would work well with redemption tickets and would have the needed cool factor to get plays.

This machine is more revolutionary than evolutionary, and that means it is going to take time for pinheads to be open to it. So many folks comment about it and crap on it, who have never even played the machine. Is this machine going to be for everyone, of course not, there are plenty of 'traditionalistys' who will never like it, just like some guys still don't like DMD machines or don't like modern Sterns, etc.

#8 5 years ago

I'm pretty sure I heard Gerry say it a couple of years ago. He has to think so because not only is "pinheads " a tiny market but as you say many of that small group will never like it or buy it. The arcade/redemption angle is more promising.

#9 5 years ago
Quoted from jungle:

I'm pretty sure I heard Gerry say it a couple of years ago. He has to think so because not only is "pinheads " a tiny market but as you say many of that small group will never like it or buy it. The arcade/redemption angle is more promising.

I'll have to ask him about that at expo. Even though it is a small market, not like he needs a huge chunk of market share or have to sell a million of them to be successful. I think, once he starts production, that he will have no problem selling the first 100 that come off the line, but then things my drop off until he gets some momentum and has more folks get to play them.

I think the big question is around the chicken and the egg issue around machines sold and independent game designers. Will sales only gain steam when more games are available but will game creators not want to work with this platform until there is enough owners/market to create sufficient sales to get a return on the effort.

2 weeks later
#10 5 years ago

I hope we'll also see a new, previously untapped market, of enthusiastic makers making their own games for the platform. I know there's a sector of the market that can afford this as a luxury item (I sell v.good to high-end HiFi - a P3 costs the same some single speakers), and I could see such a parent in their 40's wanting to have a pinball machine in the home - not only for their own reminiscing but also as a Newtonian distraction for their kids who are growing up with PC & console games. I don't think Gerry will have a problem moving through his initial run with this market alone.

Where I think things will get really interesting is in the homes that already have a 3D printer and an enthusiastic youngster willing to turn their imagination into a real game. How long till we see the first P3 game winning a science fair? Who will be the first girl or boy to pay for college with the revenue from selling a P3 game?

Now granted, Multimorphic will need to sell a lot more than a few hundred machines before that's a reality, but within the next decade we're likely to see the cost of all types of manufacturing drop dramatically, so it's not unreasonable to think that a 10th anniversary P3 might sell for half or a quarter of what we're paying today. (Of course, we're talking about another decade of accelerating change in all areas of technology - the world will be extraordinarily different by then)

Considering that the 50" TV that a lot of the aforementioned kids have been playing Station3 and and Ex-boxing on would have cost $10,000 a decade ago, I think the chances of $5,000 or less for a new P3 in ten years is pretty good.

1 week later
#11 5 years ago
Quoted from jungle:

Trouble is children don't have the money to buy one.

Agreed, but we're not marketing to children. We're marketing to adults. Some adults have kids. Most kids enjoy games designed for kids. Some kids enjoy games designed for adults. Some adults enjoy games designed for adults. Some adults enjoy games designed for kids. Most adults with kids would like to buy products both they and the kids can enjoy. With the P3 and a variety of games, everybody can find something they enjoy, and hopefully most will enjoy a wide range of P3 games.

This industry has never experienced a modular, physical pinball platform, and I completely understand that it'll be compared to single-themed games in pricing and perceived value by a majority of the market until we're shipping both machines and multiple enticing games.

Quoted from jungle:

I don't think it's possible to sell many in the near future at anywhere near the price i've seen mentioned. Yes you can get extra games but the initial cost is way too high imo.

You can argue that you don't like the platform or you don't like the games we've developed so far, but it's difficult to argue that the cost of the P3 with multiple games doesn't represent the best per-game value in the pinball industry. Further, at the rate the industry is going, P3 machines will soon be one of the least expensive machines on the market. When we reach production, P3 games (ie. game kits) will be the least expensive games in the industry by far. P3 machine owners will be able to build their game libraries at a fraction of the cost of traditional games, and our recently issued patents will make it very difficult for anybody else to sell anything similar.

- Gerry
http://www.multimorphic.com

#12 5 years ago
Quoted from jungle:

Pinheads buy pinball machines.

Agreed. Pinheads buy today's pinball machines because they're designed for pinheads (because that's the known/existing market). Intricate layouts and confusing deep rulesets... things pinheads love but things that confuse general consumers. Today's manufacturers largely ignore other demographics. It's a risk to design games for an unknown market.

We're designing games for pinheads too, but we're also designing games for non-pinheads. Pinheads will likely scoff at some of the ideas we're exploring, and that's fine. They can stick with the games we design specifically for them, or they can give new ideas a chance. They might be surprised at how fun certain new ideas can be.

- Gerry
http://www.multimorphic.com

1 week later
-2
#13 4 years ago

Gerry ,

Nearly EVERYONE in the outside world thinks 10k for a pinball machine is totally insane. And that is for beautiful looking machines like JJP. Have you asked "the outside world " to have a look at your machine and guess the cost ? I think that the vast majority would be shocked if you said it was 3k. The machine that was at Expo just doesn't look like a top of the range product. The appearance of the machine needs to be massively improved if you are ever going to sell games at 10k outside of a tiny hobby niche.

#14 4 years ago
Quoted from jungle:

Nearly EVERYONE in the outside world thinks 10k for a pinball machine is totally insane.

Then I guess it's a good thing we don't need everyone to buy one in order to build our business and deliver a compelling product to those who can afford it and choose to buy one

- Gerry
http://www.multimorphic.com

#15 4 years ago
Quoted from jungle:

Gerry ,
Nearly EVERYONE in the outside world thinks 10k for a pinball machine is totally insane. And that is for beautiful looking machines like JJP. Have you asked "the outside world " to have a look at your machine and guess the cost ? I think that the vast majority would be shocked if you said it was 3k. The machine that was at Expo just doesn't look like a top of the range product. The appearance of the machine needs to be massively improved if you are ever going to sell games at 10k outside of a tiny hobby niche.

I'm curious to know what components of the machine make it look like a 3K machine? The playfield, the mechanisms, the cabinet, backbox? Or are you referring mainly to the artwork? I agree $10K is a lot of money to put down on a pinball machine- I wouldn't buy Dialled In or BM66 - I'm not too partial on the overall look of JJPs Dialled In anyway but the Hobbit and Woz do look amazing.

The difference in the case of P3 is that its an investment on future machines and a swappable system. With limitted space and funds to buy machines in the long run I can afford maybe 4 or 5 P3 games for the price of a couple of JJPs (or one Stern LE with the way their prices are going).

I'm sure once LLEE comes out someone will offer alternative backglass and cabinet artwork and as the artwork is magnetic sheets you can swap it over in 10 seconds.

#16 4 years ago

If thousands of people like it and buy it that's great. Not sure I understood Gerry's reply. Does he want more than a handful of people in the "outside world " to buy it ? If he is just targeting pinheads or more accurately a niche within the community ie. tech/hands-on guys then no problem. But long-term you would be looking at less than 1000 and probably less than 500 machines imo.

I don't know whether they have done any market research outside the pinball community. Put a WOZ RR beside the P3 in a showroom and ask the public to guess the cost of each game. I think the flipper mechanism in particular has a "steampunk " appearance that will put off most of the people that are wealthy enough to buy it.

#17 4 years ago

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#18 4 years ago

btw I didn't say it looked like a 3k game. Obviously we know that no NIB pinball is that price. I'm talking about people that right now know next to nothing about pinball. But are wealthy. We have been told people such as this did buy JJP games.

#19 4 years ago

There's too much negativity in this hobby. This thread is literally about trying to let *children* enjoy pinball. Not how many grown ups can find a way to be critical about pinball!

Every game in my collection has been considered for how family friendly it is. I did not buy a SWep1 drop in for my RFM because I wanted to play it, I bought it because my son did when he was younger. He played it a ton and so did his friends. Now that he is old enough, RFM is back in the machine and unlike other games that I had to sell or not buy while he was too young, the playfield swap that pinball 2000 promised totally worked in my house. Unfortunately, those playfields are big and heavy, but being able to make my p2k more family friendly rather than sell off a machine I still enjoyed and deal with the logistics of moving it out and moving something else new in? Total win.

My son LOVED Cannon Lagoon when he played it at Replay FX and he wants a Cannon Lagoon T-Shirt. He's really excited for the P3 to join our lineup, and so am I.

While my experience is anecdotal, I doubt I'm the only one. I believe swapping will work and I believe there are other collectors out there who also balance their enjoyment of their pin collection with their enjoyment of sharing pinball with their families.

#20 4 years ago

guy is hitting all the p3 threads trolling, making same arguments 10 times....don't buy the game, we get it

4 years later
#21 4 months ago

Accidentally clicked on this thread today - what a difference 4 years makes! Many SINGLE Stern/JJP games are approaching 10K, and the P3 has kept the same price point, while delivering the promised additional playfields and mini-games. Pretty funny to see the discussions given the current progress

#22 4 months ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

Accidentally clicked on this thread today - what a difference 4 years makes! Many SINGLE Stern/JJP games are approaching 10K, and the P3 has kept the same price point, while delivering the promised additional playfields and mini-games. Pretty funny to see the discussions given the current progress

It is a good one to revisit based on the viability of the platform and continuing development. I would love to see about getting one placed at a hospital or Ronald McDonald House for the children and their families. Gerry, if you are out there and want to talk, drop me a line.

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