(Topic ID: 274781)

Chicago Coin TV Baseball Freak Out (1966)


By Macca

43 days ago



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  • 249 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 day ago by Macca
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    #1 43 days ago

    I just acquired a Chicago Coin TV Baseball that has many problems.

    The score motor and animation unit keeps running on power up.

    I manually reset the top and bottom relay bank and the problem went away for a time
    but of course, it’s happening again.

    When I press the replay button Player 2 is immediately activated and the machine completely freaks out.
    The 1, 2, 3 “Outs” keeps cycling non stop.

    On the backglass a random number will show up for 0 - 9, this may be a match play number?

    Maybe the “Player Control and Outs Unit” is not at zero position?

    The Player Controls and Outs Unit seems like it wants to move but doesn’t. If engage the coil clockwise and turn on the machine it will advance seven rivets counter clockwise.
    The bonus control unit moves on power up.

    I’ve activated some relays and at times I’ll get some life in the machine.
    I can occasionally pitch and bat and the men ran around the bases too but this lasted a minute.

    I made a video (Youtube is still processing it) that'll I'll post later.
    The Play Control moves about 4 rivets and the Animation Unit did not move as it did in another video I took.

    So happy to finally have a pitch and bat.
    This is my first Chicago Coin machine.

    I’m waiting on the schematic I ordered although I’m not the best at reading it.

    I’d appreciate any help to bring this machine back.

    Thank you…

    TV Baseball Steppers (resized).jpg
    #2 43 days ago
    Quoted from Macca:

    The score motor and animation unit keeps running on power up.

    Do the score reels reset?

    Quoted from Macca:

    On the backglass a random number will show up for 0 - 9, this may be a match play number?

    Likely.

    IPDB does not have a schematic. Can you get yours scanned at Staples, saved as a PDF, and post when you get it?

    #3 43 days ago

    Hey Currieddog,

    Thank you for the reply.

    Yes, if I hit the replay button the score reels will reset while the other motors are running.

    Yes, I can go to Staples and get it scanned.
    I'll try to take some schematic pictures to post just in case I'm delayed in getting to Staples.

    When my video is fully processed I'll post it to give you an idea of what's happening in the back box.

    Again, I really appreciate your reply.

    Thank you

    #4 42 days ago

    Made a bit of progress.

    The motor was still running when I decided to shut off the machine and look under the playfield.
    I noticed stuck behind the targets were two balls being blocked by some debris. Apparently, there was only one ball in the trough.

    I put the playfield back along with the two balls, turned on the machine, the motors moved then stopped. I hit the replay button, the score reels reset and was able to pitch and bat. Initially, one run was added, but the players ran around the bases, bells were ringing and the game was keeping score.

    Do all balls have to be in the trough for the game to work?
    Is that the solution to my problem?

    I think the path the balls travel need a good cleaning, there’s probably 50 years of dirt in the way.

    Everything looked promising, then the game just froze with one player running midway to second base. Even if I turn the machine off then on the base runner is still midway to second.

    Looking around I noticed the “Lock Relay” was not energized.
    Turns out the 15 amp fuse was blown and possibly the 2 Amp Slo Blo which I’m getting mixed readings.
    I’ll just place an order for several packs.

    I noticed on IPDB, some Chicago Coin games have a Part Catalog and a Manual.
    I’ll see if these are available as well.

    I’ll update when I replace the fuses.

    TV Baseball Fuses (resized).jpg
    #5 38 days ago

    Just an update:

    From my previous post, I was able to play a game when the 15 amp and possibly 2 amp slo blow fuse blew.
    The game froze with a runner standing between first and second base.

    Just got my fuses today.
    Replaced both, turned on the machine, it made a noise and the 15 amp blew again.

    I reset both relay banks and replaced the fuse and thankfully it’s still working.

    PROBLEM 1, turning on the machine player 1 is lit. When I hit the replay button, it jumps to player 2 and all the motors keep running.
    I have to shut off the machine, reset both relay banks and turn the machine on to make the motors stop. But as soon as I hit the replay button it jumps to player 2 and the motors will run again.

    PROBLEM 2, when I first turned on the game there was no life in the pitching unit (lock relay is energized.)
    I choose a curve ball and nothing.

    Any idea why there’s no life in the pitching unit?

    Does the game still think I’m playing somewhere when the fuse blew mid-game?

    PROBLEM, 3 the left field light is on in the backglass.

    Under the playfield I put a business card in-between the relay and it went off.
    I’ll adjust it. Still, I want to compare to the center and right relays just to make sure the left field relay is where it should be.

    Just tried an an experiment: Reset both relay banks but this time I manually advanced all score reels.
    Hit replay and the score reels reset and the motor stopped. But again, when I hit the replay button a second time button, player 2 gets activated and all the motors run.

    I took pictures of the schematic and when I can get a chance I’ll go to Staples and get a PDF made.

    Thank you for any help you can provide in saving this machine.

    TV Schematic 4 (resized).jpgTV Schematic 3 (resized).jpgTV Schematic 2 (resized).jpgTV Schematic 1 (resized).jpg
    #6 38 days ago

    Another update:

    For the left field light staying on problem on the backglass I looked at the relay and all three switches were making contact. Center and Right Field were not making contact so I adjusted the Left Relay switches, so now they’re not making contact. The Left Field light is now off.

    I don’t know if that was the reason but now when I turn on the machine and hit replay everything will reset and the motor stops.
    Now, the problem is the pitching mech is not energized.

    I have some documentation that says the Score Motor and Base Running Animation Unit must be at zero position for the pitching circuit to operate.

    This is my first Chicago Coin machine and I’m not exactly sure where zero position is located.

    Also, is cam 1 closest or furthest from the unit?

    Also that piece of wood beyond the target that leads the ball to the trough became displaced.
    I just taped it to keep it in place while I work on the machine.

    CRISIS AVERTED: I was blowing the 15 amp fuse on hitting the replay button.
    A little research told me no credits on the machine will blow the 15 amp fuse.
    And of course, I didn't notice I had no credits on the machine.
    Can this machine be put on freeplay?

    I noticed, the electrical cord only has two prongs and one of the prongs seems to recess and not fully stick out.
    Can this be causing a problem that the pitching unit is not getting enough power?

    So the problem still exists, if the Score Motor and Animation Motor maybe are not at zero position to energize the pitching unit.
    Can anyone confirm based on these pictures?

    TV Pitch Unit Info (resized).pngTV Score Motor (resized).jpgTV Animation Unit (resized).jpg

    #7 38 days ago

    And the blowing of 15 amp fuses continues along with a runner stopped mid-way between first and second base.

    Frustration is setting in.

    I could use some help.

    #8 38 days ago

    The schematic you posted isn’t legible enough when expanded.

    #9 38 days ago

    Thank you pinballdaveh,

    I'm planning on going to Staples tomorrow after work and have it scanned as a PDF.
    Hopefully, I can upload it to this thread, or to a cloud drive.

    I appreciate the reply.

    #10 36 days ago
    Quoted from Macca:

    Also, is cam 1 closest or furthest from the unit?

    It's usually going to be on the left as you look at it width-wise.

    I'm going to have to puzzle this over more because I'm not that familiar with CC schematics, but are these sw. clean and properly gapped?

    Capture (resized).PNG
    #11 36 days ago

    I'm thinking about manually advancing the score motor and the animation motor unit to find zero position.

    The score motor zero position is section A Cam 1.
    The animation unit zero position is section A Cam 2.

    All switches should be in the open position to stop the motor which would be zero position, correct?

    Do you think this is a good idea to try?

    #12 36 days ago
    Quoted from Macca:

    I'm thinking about manually advancing the score motor and the animation motor unit to find zero position.

    Can't hurt, but it seems that these two should do that.

    Capture (resized).PNGCapture1 (resized).PNG
    #13 36 days ago

    I'm sorry, tell me what I'm looking at and what you need me to do?

    Along with trying to find the zero positions for the score mode and animation motor I plan on adding scores to both reels and manually moving the credit reel making sure it is not slightly in between numbers.

    #14 36 days ago
    Quoted from Macca:

    I'm sorry, tell me what I'm looking at and what you need me to do?

    Check out Clay's superb guide for the basics first: http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index1

    Then check the switches on the circuits for cleanliness and solid contact.

    #15 36 days ago

    Sounds good, I'll check them.

    So far I've only had to adjust one switch: the left field light was on because the switch was making contact.

    I just adjusted all left field switches to be open like the right and center field relays.

    #16 36 days ago

    Update:

    I manually moved the score unit and animation unit to what I thought was zero position, added more credits and added some runs to all four reels.
    Turned on the machine and thankfully the 15 amp fuse did NOT blow.

    I moved the score and animation unit and turning the machine on they went to what I believe zero position. And again, the fuse held up.

    I took a very light flexstone to each switch that controls the pitching unit with no luck.

    The score motor zero position is section A Cam 1 SW C.
    The animation unit zero position is section A Cam 2 SW B.

    The pitching unit is still not energized.
    I tested the relay with a 9 volt battery and the relay is good.

    With the playfield up I cleaned the cabinet Jones Plugs and pressed down on what I thought was the pitching relay but turned out to be the 15 bat timer. At least it did make a noise and the gear moved but the arm did not come around to pitch the ball. I don’t know if that’s just gravity.
    Touching the bat relay will swing the bat.

    Before these problems happened, I was able to pitch when the game did work.
    I don’t want to go flexstone crazy, but it may be an idea to flexstone the pitching relay.

    I can't remember if after hitting the replay button if the pitching relay is automatically energized just waiting for the player to hit a button to choose a pitch?

    #17 35 days ago
    Quoted from Macca:

    The pitching unit is still not energized.

    Did you check the make/break on the pitch motor in the triangle, along with the other switches that lead into the pitch relay in this snippet? and did you check the switches in post 12? This will never work correctly if it's not resetting correctly.

    Capture (resized).PNG

    #18 35 days ago

    I was just looking over the schematic and I plan to do that later tonight when I get home from work.

    On some of the relays under the play field there's no identifying paper telling me which relay is which.

    I know the bat relay and another relay that controls the 15-second pitch motor but I guess I have to look at the colored wires to figure out which is the pitching relay.

    #19 35 days ago
    Quoted from Macca:

    On some of the relays under the play field there's no identifying paper telling me which relay is which.

    The coil # from the schematic will help you track them down.

    #20 35 days ago

    Yeah, I plan on doing that later. There are some coils with the same number though I'll just have to see when I have the full schematic in front of me.

    #21 35 days ago
    Quoted from Macca:

    There are some coils with the same number

    That's when you go to wire color, etc.

    #22 35 days ago

    You got it!!!

    From what I remember the colors are still there so hopefully it'll be easy.

    #23 35 days ago

    Every time I think I feel a bit comfortable reading schematics I come the realization I’m not.

    I’m looking for the score motor zero position is section A Cam 1 SW C.

    The animation unit zero position is section A Cam 2 SW B.

    It looks like the switches are ordered from top to bottom
    A
    B
    C
    D

    I just can’t find it on the schematic.
    I’m trying to find out if it’s normally opened or normally closed once I turn on the machine.

    Do these switches that I'm looking for look correct?
    Some of them are curved and I don't know if that's standard on Chicago Coin machines.

    Quoted from currieddog:

    Did you check the make/break on the pitch motor in the triangle, along with the other switches that lead into the pitch relay in this snippet? and did you check the switches in post 12? This will never work correctly if it's not resetting correctly.
    [quoted image]

    I’m sorry, I'm going in a lot of directions and getting myself deeper in confusion so please excuse me.
    I'm trying to relate a make break switch from Gottlieb and I'm probably wrong.

    I really appreciate your patience...

    Animation Motor (resized).jpgScore Motor (resized).jpgPitching Mech (resized).jpgPitching Mech 1 (resized).jpg
    #24 34 days ago
    Quoted from Macca:

    It looks like the switches are ordered from top to bottom
    A
    B
    C
    D

    Normally the lettering starts at the bottom.

    #25 34 days ago

    Wow, I thought it was just the opposite.

    I was thinking later tonight after turning on the machine I would slightly turn the animation unit (and possibly score motor) to see if the pitching mech gets energized.

    When I press on the pitch replay the 15 second pitch timer motor will move.
    I can't remember when I was able to play if the motor is active and audible.
    I would think it is because if you don't pitch a ball, the 15 second motor will automatically pitch the ball.

    I'm assuming in zero position both score and animation units should be normally closed.
    It looks like either way the animation unit has 3 switches so the middle switch is the B switch on the 2nd cam.
    I don't believe it's making contact.

    I'm considering making an adjustment so it's making contact and hopefully that'll energized the pitching mech.

    #26 34 days ago

    Okay, something interesting…

    I started the machine in a darkened basement.
    The “Game Over” relay is facing down and the “Game Over” light in on in the backglass.

    I hit the replay button and the relay control arm gets energized and hits the relays in the bank.
    The Game Over relay is still down after the control arm is energized.
    The “Game Over” light is still on in the backglass.

    I lifted the “Game Over” relay and it blew the 15 amp fuse but interestingly on the backglass the “Game Over” light was off and the “Batter Up” pitcher and batter were lit.

    Can my problem be with the “Game Over” relay? Hope so...
    What switch could be the problem that needs to be adjusted?

    Just as a point of reference, the Game Over switches from top to bottom:
    Open
    Closed
    Closed
    Closed
    Closed
    Open
    Open

    With the machine off I engaged the Game Over relay. All 7 switches changed their state. What was open is closed and what was closed is open.
    Game Over Relay (resized).jpg
    Game Over Relay 1 (resized).jpg

    #27 33 days ago
    Quoted from Macca:

    The “Game Over” relay is facing down

    By this you mean that it is in the energized position? Are these relays doing what they're supposed to?

    Capture (resized).png
    #28 33 days ago

    I'm doing this from memory (working right now) but if you look at the relay bank picture from post 26 you could see the game over in one position and the rest of the relays in a different position.

    Turning on the machine I believe the game over relay would drop-down, once hitting the replay button the arm would be energized for a split second to reset the bank and then it would drop down again.

    Last night it was in the position it's in now and after hitting the replay button the bank energized and again it dropped in the same position.

    Today I tried it and it was stuck in the up position and it blew a fuse.

    Touching one of those relays in the game over relay took away the game over light and added a batter up light along with the pitcher and batter light being highlighted.

    Is the game over relay and NOT the Score / Animation zero position motor my problem?

    #29 32 days ago

    Update:

    I saw this on the TV Baseball hints list:

    “If unit fails to put a man “at bat” the coil located at the top of the base running unit isn’t being energized or is not functioning properly.”

    I hooked up two alligator clips to the coil leads and to a 9v battery.
    There was no movement at all.
    It should have pulled the attached arm.

    I tried the same thing on several coils and the relays moved.

    I also tried the coil with a multimeter, the number stood at 1 with no continuity.
    It seems only when I touched a nearby wire did the number go to 0.

    Could it be with all the blown 15 amp fuses, the coil got fried and that’s why the “at bat” function is not enabled?
    Does this coil look fried?

    I think it may be time to order a new coil.
    I guess it's the "At Bat" coil: N24-700 located on the schematic at J-10.
    Is that correct?

    Screen Shot 2020-08-19 at 12.13.06 AM (resized).pngAnimation Coil with clips (resized).jpgAnimation Coil closeup (resized).jpg

    #30 32 days ago
    Quoted from Macca:

    Is the game over relay and NOT the Score / Animation zero position motor my problem?

    I don't think you've confirmed that all resets are happening. And that the circuits in post 12 are all good.

    Quoted from Macca:

    Does this coil look fried?

    A visual won't tell you anything. Get a multimeter on it.

    #31 32 days ago

    I deleted my post late last night because I was getting different multimeter readings.
    I just turned on the machine and yes, the coil was moving the attached arm. So that works.

    I know you believe something is not resetting and I believe you're right, but also, if that's not the answer, do you believe since the “at bat, pitcher/batter” light comes on when I lift one of the switches the problem is in the game over relay?

    Quoted from currieddog:

    I don't think you've confirmed that all resets are happening. And that the circuits in post 12 are all good.

    When you've asked me to confirm if the circuits are working, based on looking at the schematics, I feel lost.
    Can you tell me exactly what to do to confirm they are working?

    In Post 12, I see the player unit, then 4 drums (score reels, they do reset to 0)

    Funny when I first got the machine despite some abnormalities I was able to play an occasional game .

    #32 32 days ago
    Quoted from Macca:

    In Post 12, I see the player unit, then 4 drums (score reels, they do reset to 0)

    Yes, in the top one, confirming that they reset to 0. The second is the circuit for the start relay, so if the game wasn't starting on its own, that was the circuit to check. Sorry, if I haven't been clear.

    I've found the best way to work thru this kind of thing is to pick a problem and stay with it til it's fixed, then go to the next. So, back to post 1 the problem to start was that the score motor and animation kept running; is that totally solved? If not, start with that.

    Another thing that's difficult is that I am not that familiar with Chicago Coin schematics and esp. not with pitch and bat games.

    #33 32 days ago

    I believe the game does reset.
    I usually advance the score reels before turning on the power.
    When I turn on the power, the score motor, animation motor, reels will turn and come to a position I can only assume is home.

    But of course, now, I just went in the basement and put in a quarter (usually just hit the replay button to start)
    and the score/animation/bonus unit all move non-stop.

    The player control unit doesn’t move.

    I went to the main relay bank and all the relays were dropped down (see photo with Game Over relay down)
    All the relays were down.
    I lifted all of them up except the game over relay.

    Turned on the machine, hit the replay button and the motors stopped as they should.

    Even though you’re not familiar with Chicago Coin schematics I can't tell you how much your help is appreciated.
    Funny, today my wife asked me if CurriedDog responded to my post.
    You ARE making an impact.
    So many great people on this site and in this community.

    Do you think the player control unit is a problem?
    A while back I advanced the stepper to eventually get to player 1 with no outs.
    Maybe it was a bit stuck. So I can only guess it’s okay.

    The problem is the Game Over light is on after the replay button is hit.

    The “At Bat/Pitcher/Batter” light should be on and the pitching mechanism should be energized. They are not.
    If I lift one of the switches in the game over relay, the “At Bat/Pitcher/Batter” light will come on and the game over light will go off.

    I'm not well versed to know if the problem is something not resetting or some switch in the game over relay.

    Main Relay Bank (resized).jpg
    #34 31 days ago

    I tried a couple of miscellaneous things tonight with the Game Over relay.

    When the Game Over relay is dropped down (like in previous photos), it is energized.
    It is always in that position (turning on the machine and after hitting the replay button) and the Game Over light is ALWAYS on.

    The Game Over Relay:

    Making the number 2 switch normally open will make the Game Over light will go out.

    Making the number 6 switch normally closed will light the “batter up, pitcher, batter.”
    Also, two players are on bases, 2nd and 3rd base.
    The Game Over light stays on.

    Making number 7 switch normally open will light the “batter up, pitcher and batter with runners on 2nd and 3rd base.
    The Game Over light stays on but the 15 amp fuse blows a couple seconds later.

    When I start the game WITH advancing the score reels, the game and fuse is good
    The Game Over relay is always energized so the Game Over light is always on.

    Now, when I start the game WITHOUT advancing the score reels, the game jumps to Player 2 and I blow a fuse.

    After activating the animation reset there was only one runner on second base.
    The runner on third base was not there.

    If not having a full reset is the problem, could that be the reason the game is not resetting because there is already a man on base?

    #35 29 days ago

    The coil voltage fuse protects 2 sections of coil circuits. The ones controlled by the game over relay and the ones that are not. It’s the circuits controlled by the game over relay that’s blowing the fuse when you try to relatch the arm. Switch 7 can be found near the top left of the schematic and powers that row of coils and pitch motor. Do a resistance test on each of these coils and motor in this row for a short.
    If the pitch motor runs to wind a spring it may be straining and cause a current surge.

    #36 29 days ago

    Thank you PinballDaveH,

    I'll check for that later tonight when I get home from work.

    If there is no short, do you believe since when I opened switch 7 a player was still on the base paths it could mean that the machine thinks the game is still running and that's why it's not fully resetting?

    I appreciate your help, thank you again.

    #37 29 days ago

    Part of the reset sequence is the step units resetting. The player unit and outs unit need that reset pulse to allow the game over relay To relatch. Even if the units are getting the reset pulse, stuck mechanisms might be the problem.

    #38 29 days ago

    There are two stepper units on the door.

    The top one is the bonus unit that will move when I power on the machine. The one below I believe is the player and outs unit.

    This one will not move when I power on the machine. If I manually advance it five or six rivets and turn on the machine it will go back to that original rivet one position.

    #39 29 days ago

    Do you find any shorted coils on your resistance tests? The outs/player unit might have blade switches on the gear side that might have something to do with the reset circuit. Can you post pics of the gear side of these units?

    #40 29 days ago

    I'm testing ALL the colls right now. I'll make a post as soon as I'm finished.

    #41 29 days ago

    I just tested ALL coils in the machine.

    Multimeter set to ohms with the number 1 in the display.

    With all coils I was able to get a 0 reading.
    Sometimes I had to fiddle with the proper position but it did go to zero if even for a moment.

    I advanced the Player/Out unit 7 rivets.
    Turned on the machine and nothing happened.
    I hit the replay button and the motors ran for quite a bit but eventually they stopped and the Player/Out unit went back to its original position.

    I've included photos of the gears for the Player/Out Unit and the Bonus Unit (very greasy)

    Unfortunately, still no life in the pitch unit.
    Player Unit Gears (resized).jpgBonus Unit Gears (resized).jpg

    #42 29 days ago

    On the player/out unit it looks like the gear shaft clock spring is not wound correctly, allowing the blade switch to re-close.

    #43 29 days ago

    The lower middle blade stays open when it's on the first rivet. (Home position?)

    Every rivet after (2-7) it is closed.

    How do I adjust the spring to test if it's correct?
    IMG_20200822_214011299.jpg

    IMG_20200822_214527771.jpg

    #44 29 days ago

    The 2nd pic shows the spring better where it’s connected. The spring should be wound to spin the gear to home position when paws are released. Powering up the pitch motor may be done with jumpers.

    #45 29 days ago

    The motor does go back to the home position assuming that rivet one is home position.

    Are you saying I would be able to power the pitching motor with alligator clips?
    My clips are not long enough.

    Do you still think the machine not powering the pitching mech is because it's not fully resetting?
    Where should we look next?

    #46 28 days ago

    Instead of trying to power up the pitch unit lets try to keep it from powering up. The pitch unit cam blade switch should have one part of the switch closed, insert a piece of paper into the closed switch, and lift up on game over relay latch.
    Does the game over relay allow the latching or does its coil energize?
    Does the fuse blow?
    Can the machine do a complete reset sequence?
    Can you post pics of both sides of the pitch unit?

    #47 28 days ago

    I'm just about heading out for work.
    I'll do everything when I get home later tonight.

    I think I'll even take a video of the door motors and the animation motor along with taking pictures of the pitching unit.

    #48 28 days ago

    Okay, the pitch relay had two blades that were touching. I put two pieces of business cards between them.

    I turned on the machine and raised the latch. It only made a buzz.

    I manually advanced the reels and hit the replay button. The score reels reset. I lifted the latch and it buzzed again.

    I did see some sparks in the game over relay.

    The 15 amp fuse did not blow.

    Previously, if I would raise the latch after hitting the replay button the 15 amp fuse would blow.

    The game over relay did not latch. it stood in its drop-down energized position.

    The game did do a full reset.

    Would you like to see a video of the motors on the door and the animation motor in the back box?

    IMG_20200823_193908443.jpgIMG_20200823_193918484.jpgIMG_20200823_195000344.jpg
    #49 28 days ago

    Let’s try to keep the game over relay coil from buzzing. Check the start and tilt relays switches for a normally open switch to be closed.
    Check the lock relay for a normally closed switch that stays closed when coil is energized.
    Check if the game over coil still buzzes.
    An animation unit video might be of some help.

    #50 28 days ago

    I still have the business cards in the pitching relay. I wasn't sure if you wanted me to take them out.

    The lock relay is now at normally open after hitting the replay button.

    When I power on and even after hitting the replay button starting at the top the switches for the start relay are:

    1 - NO
    2 - NC
    3 - NO
    4 - NO
    5 - NO
    6 - NO
    7 - NO
    8 - NC

    The start relay drops down and gets energized changing state.
    The latch hits it back up.

    I’ve looked all around the machine and even the schematic but I can’t find the tilt relay.
    The machine does have a tilt bob near the coin mech.

    UPDATE: just saw to tilt switch and the bottom of the cabinet. Going to test it now

    Tilt switch is open. I closed it but had no effect on the game. The game did not tilt.

    Here is a video of the animation motor after powering on the machine, then hitting the replay button.

    Also a video of the Relay Latch buzz after hitting replay with business cards still in pitching relay.

    Start relay (resized).jpgUnder Playfield Relays (resized).jpg

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