(Topic ID: 296719)

Chicago coin superstar will not kick ball out

By firepowerfixer

2 years ago


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super star bonus contact plate.jpg
super star bonus diagram.jpg
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#1 2 years ago

I found my Chicago coin coin super star, and it mostly works. Start sequence runs up to kicking out the ball. Score feels reset, bonus counts down. If you put the ball in play everything works until it drains. Then it counts bonus and sits there.the outhole switch has 2 parts. The lower part is associated with the bonus. Thanks for any advice. Lol

#2 2 years ago

got the schematic and can post a picture of the area around the "ball return kicker coil"? ... if that's what they called it on that game.

if the circuits are the same as olympics, then:

1] make sure last ball relay is not powered
2] check switches on last ball relay. On olympics, there's an NC switch with BLU-Y and BLU-W wires that needs to be closed
3] outhole relay should be powered
4] outhole relay with same BLU-W wire and a BRN-R wire needs to be closed when the outhole relay is powered

#3 2 years ago

My sechmetic shows the outhole relay picked up by the score motor, bonus unit and the bonus count relay. I have contanuity through that path. Sometimes it works, so I know it can. But after a couple balls it stops.

IMG_20210713_202500 (resized).jpgIMG_20210713_202500 (resized).jpg
#4 2 years ago

the sequence is:

1] ball drains

2] both outhole switches close. One causes the bonus to count down (not on your posted schem), the other is in the outhole relay circuit in the schem you posted.

3] until the bonus counts down, nothing happens to the outhole relay (bonus collect relay is powered so that switch is open ... and the bonus unit wipers aren't completing the circuit until the bonus countdown is done). When the bonus collection is done, the outhole relay powers and keeps itself powered via the switch with one end on the B-Y wire. When the outhole relay is powered, the score motor is powered.

4] when the outhole relay is powered, a score motor switch eventually pulses closed and the ball return kicker coil powers to send the ball from the outhole to the shooter.

5] on the way to the shooter, the ball return switch pulses closed and the ball counter is stepped up unless you got an extra ball.

I dunno if your outhole relay is not powering or the kicker is not powering. In both cases the ball will be sitting in the outhole, so you need to look and see if the outhole relay is powered to determine what to do next. The score motor running makes it more likely the outhole relay is powered, but there's other ways to turn on the score motor.

for example, if the bonus collect relay never lost power, that would keep the score motor running and the ball would sit in the outhole with the outhole relay unpowered. Your issue would then be getting the bonus collect relay to lose power.

if the outhole relay is powering, it may chatter as the score motor turns and the E-1 switch pulses open briefly. E-1 is what unpowers the relay, but with a ball in the outhole, it powers again immediately.

#5 2 years ago

Please school me on em repair. I'm not sure what to call a good ground. When I measure across the switch that tells that a ball went into play( same bg return) I get 30 Vac. For the outhole switch I only get 20 Vac. What should I read on those switches and what to ground

#6 2 years ago

prepare to be confused ....

it depends when you are looking.

the ideal thing is poke around when the circuit is closed. In that case, you stick on meter probe on the common power wire (the fat black line on the right of the schem ... usually it's got the fuse in it) and poke around anywhere in the circuit to the left of the coil. When the circuit is closed, you should see the transformer voltage everywhere. If you see low voltage, a poor connection is adding resistance and it appears as a voltage drop.

if you are poking around in an open circuit, you won't see resistance issues but will see "continuity-to-transformer" problems. There's a huge gotcha ... probing in an open circuit will show valid voltages as long as there's BOTH:
1] closed path from probe A to one side of the transformer
2] closed path from probe B to the other side of the transformer

if one probe connects to the transformer but the other is on a chunk of circuit not connected to either side of the transformer, the voltage reading can be "phantom" ... it's not meaningful.

------------------
example:

if you had one probe on the fat black line on the left of your schem and the other probe on the B-O wire on the outhole relay and didn't see 30V, the E-1 switch is open when it shouldn't be.

move the probe from the B-O wire to the GREY-G wire on the ball return switch if the extra ball relay switch was open and you'll probably get a close to zero voltage, but you could get something much higher because the GREY-G is floating in space and can be affected by magnetic fields in adjacent wires/devices.

-------------------

if you can figure out the bad writeup on this page:
http://bingo.cdyn.com/techno/readschem/relayswitchdiag2.html

you can poke around in open circuits and get good information.

if the above stuff doesn't make sense, then only probing closed circuits and using a jumper wire may be less frustrating. The biggest issue with probing an open circuit is the same as using continuity ... it may tell you the circuit is good when it really has a problem that only manifests when current is flowing.

#7 2 years ago

So if I ran a ground straight to the yellow wire on the outhole relay it should fire. And I could just follow it back toward the switch can I find the problem that way?

#8 2 years ago

Here's what I did. I ran a jumper from the playfield ball return to the outhole switch. They go back to the same return. Circuit works perfectly. I put it in the bonus count relay, outhole coil fired. At A3 same result. Then I tried it without the jumper, worked. Then it played for 2 balls and more if the same. Did that teach us anything?

#9 2 years ago

when you say you put jumpers on switches, I don't know which side of the switch. Ya gotta say the colors of the wires you put the jumpers on (use the wire color abbreviations on the schem).

I'm also not sure what the problem is. Is it:

A] the ball is sitting in the outhole, but the outhole relay doesn't power after the bonus counts down

B] the outhole relay powers, but the ball doesn't kick over to the shooter

if the problem is [A], I'd do this:

1] play until the problem happens
2] remove ball from outhole
3] tip up the playfield and attach one end of a jumper wire to point [A] (green line in schem below)
4] touch other end of jumper to points marked in X from left to right until the outhole relay powers.

that'll tell you which switch / wiper isn't working.

if you wanted to use a meter instead, jumper the outhole switch closed (A to leftmost X), then put one meter probe on the power line (yellow dot) and other probe on all the X's from left to right. When you get something a lot lower than your transformer voltage, the problem is the device to the left of the X you are on.

for all the above, the assumption is the E-1 switch is working. If credits decrement reliably when resetting the game, it should be ok, but you can verify with the outhole switch jumpered closed. Put one meter probe on A, the other on the B-O wire on the outhole relay coil to verify you have transformer voltage (30V?).

I've been using A because not enough of the schem is in the pic to see what the wire color is ... (nag nag )
superstar (resized).jpgsuperstar (resized).jpg

#10 2 years ago

Thank you so much for all the help. I'm beginning to understand how this works

#11 2 years ago

Here is a pic of the bonus unit. And a diagram from the book. I traced the problem to bonus unit stepper but using a jumper to activate the relay and just stepping backward. The bw ( 5th wire down)wire is the return coming from the switch, WB if going tword the relay. Jumper fires it from wb, but not from bw. Cleaned contacts.

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#12 2 years ago

in your pictures the bonus unit is stepped up once and the 1000 bonus should be lit (the red marked wiper finger and the two clockwise from it are controlling the lights ... the other two go through the light sequence again and light the double bonus lamp).

the two wires in the outhole relay circuit are probably the ones circled in the diagram below.

super star bonus diagram.jpgsuper star bonus diagram.jpg

the two rivets pointed to with the green arrows in the pic below are probably what the outhole relay wires connect to.

super star bonus contact plate.jpgsuper star bonus contact plate.jpg

when the unit is reset, the two wiper finger are sitting on those rivets and those fingers are stacked on top of each other on the hub with no insulation between, so they are connected together electrically.

verify the red circled wires / edge lugs connect to those rivets with an ohmeter and your problem is one of:

1] the rivet <-> wiper contact doesn't work due to cruddy rivets or poor wiper tension onto the rivets

2] the bonus unit is not resetting all the way, so the outhole circuit fingers never connect the rivets. The bonus unit needs to count down until all the playfield lights are off.

3] the bonus unit is resetting all the way, the outhole relay doesn't power due to a problem elsewhere, and the game steps up the bonus unit once.

I dunno the rules of the game and the schem pic you posted doesn't show the bonus unit step up circuits. Some games give you a 1000 bonus before shooting the ball. Most games don't and the bonus unit is completely reset when you shoot the ball.

#13 2 years ago

You were right about the bonus unit not going to zero. When it will everything works. It stalls in between one and zero. Tried loosing and tightened the nut. You have to pump the stepper coil to get it down to zero.

#14 2 years ago

You could try and increase the bonus unit clock spring strength by 1 turn.

#15 2 years ago
Quoted from pinballdaveh:

You could try and increase the bonus unit clock spring strength by 1 turn.

verify it steps all the way up without struggling at the top steps if you tighten the torsion spring.

the usual problems when it won't reset are:

1] cruddy contact plate / wipers. After cleaning, a thin smear of lube helps. I use a contact cleaner/lube, which is basically mineral oil.

2] dried lube on the ratchet ... you have to take the unit apart and clean the ratchet and hole. I don't lube plastic on metal interfaces. If you remove the wipers and step up/reset the unit and the ratchet doesn't whizz back to the reset stop, you gotta disassemble and clean. When messing with the unit with the wipers off and replacing the wipers, hold the ratchet so it can't slide away from the frame. If it shifts enough to clear the reset stop, the torsion spring will unwind and you might as well remove the ratchet at that point.

3] too much down pressure from wipers onto rivets. Lift a wiper end with your fingernail a little and let go. If it "plinks", it's good. If the wipers stall on a rivet edge, suspect too much down pressure.

4] not enough torsion spring tension

#16 2 years ago

Thank you so much everyone

#17 2 years ago

Finely fixed it. The zero position switch was bent up a little. That caused it to stop trying to zero the bonus unit. Applied a little positive pressure. Switch and game working. Big thank you to everyone

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