Chicago Coin Jukebox EM flippers weak

0

#1 6 years ago

OP

MJA

ShinikVeech

Inactive member

Macomb, MI

9y 14,250 11 1

I recently picked up a Juke Box (my first machine so far) that was mostly non-functional when I got it home; the score relay runs forever on startup, but manually activating the reset relay allows a ball to kick out and the game to be played.

However, the flippers are exceedingly weak; I can barely hit a ball up to the middle of the opposite slingshot, let alone up the playfield. When I hold either flipper, it doesn't make it to EOS and just wobbles in the middle of the stroke (I don't hold it for long, for I don't want to burn out the coils.) If I manually move the flipper up to EOS and then press the button, it will sometimes stay there, but sometimes not (as if the hold coil isn't strong enough to overcome the spring.)

When I picked up the game, the flipper coils were disconnected. I have since attached the appropriate wires where they belong, and I am seeing a solid 30V AC at the power lugs. I also completely disassembled the EOS switches and cleaned them, so the contacts are now shiny and bright. While I had the coils out, I noticed that custom brass coil sleeves were in place, so I replaced those with nylon, and now the plungers move smoothly through the coil when hand-activated.

Does anyone have any insight into why the flippers would be so weak? I have searched around, but so far nothing seems to be helping.

Thanks in advance.

Mark

0

#2 6 years ago

TPV

gearheaddropping

Pinside member

Macomb, MI

12y 67,300 2,042 16 20

OP
Quoted from ShinikVeech:
I recently picked up a Juke Box (my first machine so far) that was mostly non-functional when I got it home; the score relay runs forever on startup, but manually activating the reset relay allows a ball to kick out and the game to be played.
However, the flippers are exceedingly weak; I can barely hit a ball up to the middle of the opposite slingshot, let alone up the playfield. When I hold either flipper, it doesn't make it to EOS and just wobbles in the middle of the stroke (I don't hold it for long, for I don't want to burn out the coils.) If I manually move the flipper up to EOS and then press the button, it will sometimes stay there, but sometimes not (as if the hold coil isn't strong enough to overcome the spring.)
When I picked up the game, the flipper coils were disconnected. I have since attached the appropriate wires where they belong, and I am seeing a solid 30V AC at the power lugs. I also completely disassembled the EOS switches and cleaned them, so the contacts are now shiny and bright. While I had the coils out, I noticed that custom brass coil sleeves were in place, so I replaced those with nylon, and now the plungers move smoothly through the coil when hand-activated.
Does anyone have any insight into why the flippers would be so weak? I have searched around, but so far nothing seems to be helping.
Thanks in advance.
Mark

I have been helping Mark with this issue as well as another one involving the score motor running upon startup.

Both flippers are behaving the same way. We have tried to adjust the coil stops and cleaned up the mechs to no avail so any help would be appreciated. I've attached a picture to see if any of you see something glaringly wrong.

image1 (resized).jpeg

0

#3 6 years ago

FUN

fredsmythson

Inactive member

Austin, TX

8y 55,650 1,189 33

Weak flippers are usually the result of a worn EOS switch or a faulty solenoid.

The EOS switch contacts need to be totally smooth with no pitting. If they are pitted, the contacts and/or switches will need to be replaced. You can also check the flipper button switches to see if they are clean.

Check the resistance of the solenoids with a multi-meter.

The solder joints on the solenoid lugs look suspicious. You might want to re-solder the wires to the solenoid lugs.

Interesting to see the label above the flipper assemblies that says to use 29-400 / 22-400 coils. Solenoids/coils installed for the flippers are labeled 28-400. Also, the paper wrapping on the flipper solenoids looks like they are from a Williams machine. But, a lot of solenoids and coils are interchangeable between manufacturers...

0

#4 6 years ago

OP

MJA

ShinikVeech

Inactive member

Macomb, MI

9y 14,250 11 1

Thanks for the quick reply! I'll try replacing the eos switches and report back.

0

#5 6 years ago

MPG

Catch86

Pinside member

10y 57,900 398 6

Yeah, mine has the 29-400’s.

B71F7C57-A739-4C42-A5F7-FF1EAAE0DD04 (resized).jpeg

0

#6 6 years ago

OP

MJA

ShinikVeech

Inactive member

Macomb, MI

9y 14,250 11 1

I replaced the EOS switches, the plungers, and the linkages, and I resoldered the coils. After doing so, the (brand new) EOS switches start arcing before they are even opened (as soon as I push the flipper buttons.) The plasma is putting off some nasty smoke, and the flippers are no stronger.

Any thoughts as to why this would happen?

I am ordering new coils today (J29-400/22-400) but I was curious as to what might be going on here in the meantime.

Thanks again!

0

#7 6 years ago

HOW

HowardR

Pinside member

Boulder, CO

7y 78,050 6,262

OP
Quoted from ShinikVeech:
the (brand new) EOS switches start arcing before they are even opened (as soon as I push the flipper buttons.)

All EM switches should be adjusted so the long blade moves the short blade. Yours are probably barely touching each other.

0

#8 6 years ago

FUN

fredsmythson

Inactive member

Austin, TX

8y 55,650 1,189 33

Also, make sure the EOS switches only open when the flippers reach the furthest "up" position. If the the EOS switches open before the flippers reach the furthest position of travel, the flipper coils / solenoids will become extremely weak...

0

#9 6 years ago

MPG

Catch86

Pinside member

10y 57,900 398 6

Looking at this closer I've attached these closeup pics of the switches in my game. The pic of yours above is a little unclear. It's hard to see if the switches are soldered correctly. ie. It almost looks like one of the wires is going underneath the switch. As if it were soldered to the metal. I'm sure that's not the case but it's hard to see.

Also, with power off you can measure the resistance of the coils. Ohm out the resistance between the 2 outer tabs of the coil. Note what that resistance is. Now with the resistance still being measured, open the EOS switch. The resistance should go higher. This is because both coils are being measured. (Sorry, if this sounds too obvious. I don't know what your skill level is.) Oh, also with the EOS switch open, measure the resistance of the 2 coils. The left tap to the middle tap and then middle tap to right tap of the coil.

FlipperCoilLT (resized).jpg