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(Topic ID: 173513)

Cherry Microswitches in WMS games

By Pinballer73

7 years ago

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36 posts
12 Pinsiders participating
Latest reply 5 years ago by G-P-E
Topic is favorited by 22 Pinsiders

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#1 7 years ago

STU

Pinballer73

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Moe

12y 78,050 2,423

Looking for some helpful advice in selecting replacement Cherry micro switches for replacements in WMS 90's games.

The Cherry part number for the original switches was DA3C-B1AA. Unfortunately these are no longer available. The tech details for these switches were as follows...

Switch Series - DA3C-B1AA

EN Rating - 0.1(0.5A) 50VAC

UL Rating - 0.1A 125VAC

VDE Min Ops - 50,000

UL Min Ops - 100,000

Max Operating Force (gms) - 90gms

The question I have is the operating force figure. I've seen it written elsewhere that this figure is the force required to operate the switch contacts. However when you read the above information, taken directly from the Cherry catalogue, it states as I've copied above "Maximum Operating Force".

The full catalogue can be found here...

http://www.mouser.com/catalog/supplier/library/pdf/Cherryswitches.pdf

Here in Australia, I've been able to locate a DB3C-B1AA switch, which has a Max Operating Force of 150gms. I've seen other restorers here on Pinside use that same switch in their restorations. However Pinball Life offers the DB5C-B1AA switch, which is rated at 70gms.

Has anyone had any experience with the various types of these switches? Can I use a switch with a higher operating force rating and be assured the switch is going to operate each and every time when installed in the game?

#4 7 years ago

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Pinballer73

Pinside+ Frequent

Moe

12y 78,050 2,423

Here is some further information straight from the CHERRY catalogue. This one details the original DA3 micro switch that was originally used and is now no longer available.

DA3 (resized).jpg

#5 7 years ago

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Pinballer73

Pinside+ Frequent

Moe

12y 78,050 2,423

This one details the DB Series of mirco switches and as you can see there is a variety available.

DB (resized).jpg

#6 7 years ago

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Pinballer73

Pinside+ Frequent

Moe

12y 78,050 2,423

Quoted from Homepin:
Isn't the actual arm used on the switch of concern? There are dozens of different arms on (often) the same, or only a few, switches?

There are dozens of arms/actuators and they do greatly effect the force required to operate the switch. I am looking at the bare switch without any actuator at all. The details above are all related to switches without any actuator installed. Basically replacements for the switch body only.

#7 7 years ago

STU

Pinballer73

Pinside+ Frequent

Moe

12y 78,050 2,423

Quoted from Coyote:
Honestly, the 'operating force' is unnecessary - a metal ball (even a ceramic ball like a powerball) will supply PLENTY of force, no matter what the operating force.
Any microswitch should work - the latest version is the D3B, I believe, but it's been a while since I looked.

That's what I am trying to determine. Pinball Life list their DB5 switch as a direct replacement for the DA3 switch. However I have seen restorers here on Pinside use the DB3 switch. I'm hoping someone with experience of these switches installed in a game can chime in.

#10 7 years ago

STU

Pinballer73

Pinside+ Frequent

Moe

12y 78,050 2,423

Quoted from Coyote:
Again - the mounting method, case, is identical. The only difference is the electrical ratings. And honestly, if you're worried about puttin' 100v through that switch, you have bigger issues with your switch matrix.
Find the cheapest switch body you can from local electronics stores - DB1 through DB7. The ONLY thing that matters is the "-AA" for the actuator type, and the "-B1" for the terminal type. Operating temp won't matter, unless you plan on playing your machine in Space or on the Sun.
Other than that, the switch body is exact between the models so there's no difference in mounting or wiring. Take the old metal actuator off the old switch, pop it onto the new one, and you're good to go. Note that there are two locations for the actuator to mount - replace it in the same one for the same result (though, not necessary of you want to move it.)

Thanks I appreciate your reply. So you think the "Max Force Rating" is irrelevant?

Jar155 in the post above explains the difference well.

#11 7 years ago

STU

Pinballer73

Pinside+ Frequent

Moe

12y 78,050 2,423

Quoted from jar155:
I actually found the switch in GBLE on the left ramp to be too stiff. About 20% of ramp shots weren't counting, usually very fast shots. I replaced the switch with a lighter trigger switch and it's now 100%. Now, Stern's arm/blade choice was bad as well, but adjusting it caused slow roller balls to hang up, so it was definitely a combined issue of switch stiffness and the blade choice. Either one being a better choice would have mitigated the problem. I prefer a lighter trigger switch to ensure that very fast shots still trigger reliably.

Thanks, that's the feedback I was looking for. I've read elsewhere that others have found similar issues with higher rated Max Force Rating switches. Hearing what others are using is interesting.

In Bryan Kelly's TAF restoration thread he shows a picture of DB3 switches and talks about building up 100 at a time. Once I read that, it cast doubt in my mind as to what is the CORRECT switch to use.

#14 7 years ago

STU

Pinballer73

Pinside+ Frequent

Moe

12y 78,050 2,423

Quoted from Coyote:
Yeah.
A wrong actuator, (or badly-designed one..?) can cause ball misses (or hangups).
If the actuator is installed on the close mounting tabs, it increases the force necessary but increases the range needed to actuate the switch. When mounted on the far tabs, the force needed is dropped considerably, but the motion of the actuator is limited. (Physics, baby!)
A wrong actuator, or actuator mounted in the wrong position for the application can cause issues, definitely. Personally, I don't see that as a fault of the switch itself.

Yes I agree with that logic. However between the DB5 and the DB1/3 switches there is double the force required. Surely there must be some applications in games where this will be an issue?

1 week later

#17 7 years ago

STU

Pinballer73

Pinside+ Frequent

Moe

12y 78,050 2,423

Quoted from Ballypinball:
Db3 are fine

Has anyone used DB2 switches? I can source those locally at a very good price, they have a contact rating of 10A and a max operating force of 250gms.

8 months later

#19 6 years ago

STU

Pinballer73

Pinside+ Frequent

Moe

12y 78,050 2,423

I'm interested in joining an order if you want to enquire about the availability and cost.

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