(Topic ID: 66533)

Cheap LCD screen to replace broken DMD's

By steveoc

10 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 16 posts
  • 10 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 years ago by Crash
  • Topic is favorited by 6 Pinsiders

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#1 10 years ago

Big question here.

My screen on my teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Pinball machine appears to have died and I need to replcace.

Is there any way of using a cheap LCD programmable screen to replace this.

Many have a USB connector, is there anything on the marked that will help converting this?

Many thanx

Steve

#3 10 years ago

A converter could be made, but none exists today, AFAIK.

#4 10 years ago

It might be possible with the DMDExtender, but don't quote me on that. I know it works for Data East stuff, but it may not be compatible with TMNT's smaller display format. Check it out, though:

http://www.drpinball.co.uk/dmdextender.htm

Can't hurt to send them an email and ask!

#5 10 years ago

Looks cool, but it about $150 + the cost of the LCD screen. Better off $ wise to just buy a DMD.

Robert

#6 10 years ago
Quoted from Miguel351:

It might be possible with the DMDExtender, but don't quote me on that. I know it works for Data East stuff, but it may not be compatible with TMNT's smaller display format. Check it out, though:
http://www.drpinball.co.uk/dmdextender.htm
Can't hurt to send them an email and ask!

Ok, not to hijack the thread but the answer has been given and I just had a thought. The DMD extender board now works with 192x64 displays. New large sized plasmas are no longer available. So what is someone to do if their large plasma display dies? Beg the locals to give up their USED plasmas for $500+? That's far from an ideal solution. Especially considering any plasma display can die tomorrow due to internal high voltage circuit failures.

If I were to buy, say, a commercial frameless 13" LCD monitor with a VGA input for $89 and this extender, could this be a feasible solution to this problem? I'm assuming the extender does not require a connection to a standard DMD correct? Can someone tell me the maximum width and height a screen can be before it hits the speakers/sticks out the top/bottom of the speaker panel? Also, is the extender output size and position adjustable to make this work so the image is not cut off beyond the edges of the speaker panel window?

Edit: As Beast would say, "Oh my stars and garters!!" Turns out that people have already started doing exactly what I have explained above. See these videos:

#7 10 years ago

Ok I did some more research and here's what I was able to dig up. If you have a jumbo DMD game and are wanting to try this the Raspberry Pi board outputs both HDMI and composite video. Since composite would look horrible (and would have to go through a separate scaler board) believe it or not people say a simple straight HDMI to VGA cable will work. Which really doesn't make any sense considering that I have also read that HDMI does not output RGB analog signals. Quote from here (http://raspberrypi.stackexchange.com/questions/222/can-a-simple-cable-convert-hdmi-output-to-vga):

The Neewer HDMI to VGA converter lead from Amazon does indeed work with the RPi but as has been reported elsewhere you have to do a bit of fine tuning in the /boot/config.txt file.

I still cannot get my Samsung 943N to see anything but a simple Dell generic 15" VGA monitor works fine. One problem seems to be that the default output signal level is not sufficient so setting config_hdmi_boost=4 seems necessary. The monitor also complains that it wants 1024x768 at 60Hz which is hdmi_mode=16.

The article at http://elinux.org/RPi_config.txt also suggests that the hdmi_group values documented should be 0 and 1 not 1 and 2 and indeed I needed to change hdmi_group to 1. So my current file looks like:

hdmi_drive=2
config_hdmi_boost=4
hdmi_group=1
hdmi_mode=16
hdmi_force_hotplug=1
disable_overscan=0
Modification for Dell 15" Monitor with Debian GNU/Linux 6.0 OS I found that it would only work with: hdmi_group=2

Raspberry Pi User Guide by Eben Upton has the video modes in the appendix. The user guide lists the hdmi_group values as 1 or 2.

And some discussion here (http://www.amazon.com/SANOXY®-Black-Adapter-Converter-Laptop/dp/B007KFVQXI/ref=sr_1_1) saying that a patch cable will work:

I use this adapter to connect a Raspberry Pi to an old Dell 17'' VGA monitor. I un-commented the following lines in config.txt.
hdmi_force_hotplug=1
hdmi_group=2
hdmi_mode=16
hdmi_drive=2

The above hdmi_mode value set resolution to 1024x768 60Hz.

According to some comments I'm seeing all over the web this converter cable actually IS a digital to analog scalar. Which is very hard for me to believe considering HDMI to VGA boxes are very expensive ($100+) and don't work well at all.

#8 10 years ago
Quoted from MrSanRamon:

Looks cool, but it about $150 + the cost of the LCD screen. Better off $ wise to just buy a DMD.
Robert

meh. Those small dmd's are what, $400-450+? Still much cheaper to get the extender.

#9 10 years ago

There is a Baywatch which appears to be colorized at the Play Expo 2013 using a DMD Extender. You can read it here on pinballnews.com

http://www.pinballnews.com/shows/playexpo2013/index.html

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#10 10 years ago

cool solution to the big Sega DMDs.

#11 10 years ago
Quoted from mwong168:

There is a Baywatch which appears to be colorized at the Play Expo 2013 using a DMD Extender. You can read it here on pinballnews.com
http://www.pinballnews.com/shows/playexpo2013/index.html

baywatch_drpinball.jpg 105 KB

Very interesting! I looked up the dimensions for the monitor and measured the speaker panel on my Baywatch. The biggest area I can use is 18" x 8", speaker to speaker. The actual window size is 15.5" x 5.5". According to the part # in the video description (LP173WD1) it is 15.7" wide and 9.2" tall. The width is perfect but the height is 1.2" above the actual wooden bezel. However, looking at Nurbo's post on this page:

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?act=url&depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&nv=1&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://www.flipjuke.fr/dmd-extender-dot-sur-ecran-lcd-t97316-40.html&usg=ALkJrhidJB23FeEvh_XZsFwcRZxC_OAH3w

...proves that it indeed can fit with a little finagling. So who knows, seems like it would fit behind the speaker panel mounted seperately from it? According to his pictures it would stick up even beyond the top speaker panel trim.

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#12 10 years ago

Since the thread has already turned a bit.....

Wow, that looks like it was a fun show! The only things wrong with all those pins there....they all had export doors on them.

And Crash, could it be that the RPi outputs only analog via ANA scalar and simply upconverts to 1080p(or less)? Therefore, that patch cable isn't de-resing the output, but keeping the native 480p? That'd make sense, but I do know that when Microsoft added the HDMI capability to the Xbox 360, they added a HANA scalar, which is HD/digital only. It can down-res, but it's still a full digital signal. So, like you say, it'd need a separate scalar/converter box.

Or do I have my info crossed up?

#13 10 years ago

Well I looked more at that flipjuke.fr thread and they were talking about an LVDS video converter/controller that converts HDMI, DVI, and VGA to the LVDS signal standard used by laptop screens. However, the exact board they were talking about is no longer available. I was able to find one very similar at roughly the same price. Looks like it would be a great, cheap solution without over-complicating the installation. Plus, if it has restrictions on resolution the RPi can be configured to use multiple resolutions using the text file on the SD card supplied with the extender.

http://www. ebay.com/itm/LVDS-VGA-DVI-AV-HDMI-LCD-controller-board-for-DIY-2662-/271178093976

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We looked at the backbox more closely and looks like about half an inch can be provided for that LCD panel if we were to mount it behind the wooden lip at the front of the backbox floor.

#14 10 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

Well I looked more at that flipjuke.fr thread and they were talking about an LVDS video converter/controller that converts HDMI, DVI, and VGA to the LVDS signal standard used by laptop screens. However, the exact board they were talking about is no longer available. I was able to find one very similar at roughly the same price. Looks like it would be a great, cheap solution without over-complicating the installation. Plus, if it has restrictions on resolution the RPi can be configured to use multiple resolutions using the text file on the SD card supplied with the extender.
Ebay link

We looked at the backbox more closely and looks like about half an inch can be provided for that LCD panel if we were to mount it behind the wooden lip at the front of the backbox floor.

Since we're off topic from the OP...

Here's a thread I started showing a DMDExtender in my JP.

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/de-jurassic-park-with-lcd-dmd-replacement#post-1111358

I'm using a cheap LVDS converter that actually has HDMI and Composite inputs, both of which the RPi can use, and I believe everything I have would work fine with the larger format display, and you'd even have more vertical space to fit the LCD. There's a pic in my thread of the LCD sticking above the speaker panel. As long as bulbs aren't in the way, it's fine if it sticks up some.

Sorry, OP, I don't think the DMDExtender currently supports the smaller displays. Though if you can check that a standard LCD would even have room to be installed, you might be able to work with Dr. Pinball to get support added. He may simply not have anything to test and maybe the demand isn't there yet.

Good Luck!

#15 10 years ago
Quoted from mwong168:

There is a Baywatch which appears to be colorized at the Play Expo 2013 using a DMD Extender. You can read it here on pinballnews.com
http://www.pinballnews.com/shows/playexpo2013/index.html

baywatch_drpinball.jpg 105 KB

Unless they have access to some functionality that's not publicly available, that's likely only utilizing the 4 color option available with DMDExtender, and not a full on colorization like you'd see with ColorDMD. I think I'm seeing just 4 colors - Light Blue, Dark Blue, Red, and Yellow.

Still changing the 4 shades to 4 colors end up being way more awesome than just 4 shades of 1 color, in my opinion.

Edit: Actually, it looks like it was the DMDExtender manufacturer Dr Pinball himself, who had that machine at that expo.

#16 10 years ago

Wow how did I miss that thread? Thanks!

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