I'm sure you glad you posted this.

Because we have never heard this exact same specific 100 percent identical thing said at least a thousand times. Not once. Not ever. Not one single time in the history of pinball has this ever been said. This one single post by you has doubled the value of pinside if not zangtupled it.

Mods, can we make this a sticky?

LMFAO

Im SHOCKED you were dropped as a distro...shocked, I tell you!

Every dealer has their own strategy and you can't fault them for it. Automated does not wholesale, they sell for full retail (or more). They are not hoarding, they are just waiting for full value. Pinsiders are lucky that some dealers cater to them by wholesaling, not all dealers can do that as they have big overhead.

Stern does set a MAP price but cannot legally tell their distributors what to sell for. Price fixing is illegal.

Stern doesn't tell their distributors what to sell for because their distributors wouldn't be able to sell any pins at MAP, vertical "price fixing" is not illegal per se under the Sherman anti trust act and is commonly done in a retail sales environment to maintain a msrp, happens all the time, the illegal part would be if JJP and Stern got together as competitors and agreed on keeping prices artificially high in the pin market, that will never happen.....

I agree that every dealer should implement their own strategy, when I bought my first pin from Automated, a Lotr Le, it wasn't even close to "full retail", they were blowing out their inventory.....what Automated does is sell a certain amount of their inventory at a discount to compete, what fool would pay full retail when others sell it at "wholesale" (which is really not wholesale).

As most know, what Automated does is buy large volumes of popular LE's, sit on them, help create an artificial demand to drive up prices, pump and dump, and then try and unload them for stupid prices that they rarely get, everything is negotiable.....

The problem is the hoarding of these pins in an attempt to drive up market prices and unload onto the chasers, not illegal, just their strategy and why I wouldn't buy from them again......

If Stern has a MSRP and a dealer has inventory, should Stern force them to sell at MSRP at least?

Automated sells plenty of pins at "wholesale" and then reserve quantity when they have helped artificially drive up demand, and that's just the system

The term wholesale is being used incorrectly in most of this discussion. From the investopedia

Definition of 'Wholesaling'
The sale and distribution of goods to users other than end consumers. Wholesaling involves selling merchandise to retailers, wholesalers and merchants, or to industrial, commercial and institutional users. A wholesaler can act as a middleman, brokering deals between these businesses. Wholesaling often occurs when large quantities of merchandise are reassembled, sorted, then repackage, and distribute in smaller lots.

Wholesale involves buying large lots and selling smaller ones. You could say that the new Stern model where there are distributors that sell to dealers is a wholesale model. The dealers buy at wholesale from the distributors and turn around and sell to customers. Sale to an end customer by a dealer or distributor is always retail. Sometimes that retail is at MSRP (or above), sometimes less, but it is never wholesale (unless they are buying multiple units and getting a price break for buying in quantity).

There are Stern distributors that sell to dealers? So there are two middlemen?

I thought Stern sold directly to a dealer, who then sold to the consumer.

In the old days the business model probably was Manufacturer >> distributor / importer >> operator. Now that there is a home market it's not that strange more distributors are offering games as they may supply to different end customers.

I don't see the benefit for the end customer if the model becomes:
Manufacturer >> distributor >> another distributor >> end customer.

I'll stick up for Automated. He gave me a GREAT deal on my TFLE. I'm sure he took a bath on it. He may have high prices on the hot title, but he was by far the lowest on the not-so-hot title, probably because he bought so many. It's a speculation strategy.

If you don't preorder the next LE in time, at least you know who to call 3 months later. Also, if it's a flop, you know who to call a year later.

An interesting thread with some good points. Aside from the haters, the frustration among most collectors seems to be the tiered game model Stern is using. Stern seems to be comfortable in their model and appears to be doing quite well with sales.

My beef is with the limited in limited edition. I'm all for three models and three prices. I'm also for being able to buy each model. Thanks in advance for all the "that's what limited means" replies. I'm comfortable with the concept, just not a fan of it.

if it's a flop i won't be calling anyone

LOL. I meant a sales flop. Not a dud.

I thought I heard stories of some small "distributors" that we're really just buying a few games from Stern for real cheap and then keeping one and selling the other two to their buddies at cost. A way to get games for real cheap.

Doesn't work like that. you have to buy a lot to get a deeper discount and it is a small reward at that. I have seen pinsiders buying from distributors for what a small distributors cost is.

Doesn't have to be a small disty for this to happen either, it is a normal part of life these days and happens everywhere, you don't imagine that a large disty would charge himself or his friends full retail or anything close, it is just a question of scale. Whatever industry we are in there are "mates rates" and perks of the job, I get all the latest hero gadgets for free as tools of my job but it still pisses me off that I can't get PINS at cost or good deals for decent machines ....that is just the way it is.

I can understand Stern wanting to get rid of the Mom & Pop distys just to decrease the amount of noise that comes with having multiple channels of comms from multiple partner channels of distribution. If they persist with the "Special Editions" I do think that they should go direct first then go with distys as an overflow for unsold units, this would be a great charm offensive move for the collector and home market (pure marketing strategy only though). Although I would prefer that they concentrate on a single base platform that you could option to a small degree through the disty as this would give greater flexibility to the disty and drive a more engaged customer model for them (some of you on here already have good relationships I know).

I am blurring the line between disty and retailer here but as everyone else is pointing out whoever is in the "value chain" will be making sure they get their share of that Value , oh and just to make one thing clear in business (and I mean business not hobbyist) I am a big believer in people making a living as we all have to make some money but I am not a fan of gouging and money grabbing, days pay for a days work and all that.

Perhaps some of this is a response to the fiasco when dozens of mini-distros oversold MetLE's and created a bunch of bad PR....

So wrong. LOTR is MM. And them some maybe. SM is GREAT. Avengers is way more addictive than MM. A gimmicky castle and some cool one liners have kept MM at the top. It's got great rules too...but I'd play 20 games of AVLE before I'd play 20 of MM. MM gets stale pretty quick. LOTR and SM not so much.

mini distros and major distros over sold metle. i like the idea of not having people with a criminal record becoming a distro anymore.

^^scary.

I like SM over MM any day..

Who are you implying has a record? Felonies or misdemeanors?

there was a thread about an individual in oregon that was a distro with a very checkered past. do a search here to find that thread, very interesting reading.

While I have never bought from Automated myself, I do know of others who have got a deal from them exactly as you describe.

Both are stripper names

Felony

Miss-Demeanor

LLLLLLaaaaadies & Gennnnntlemen put your hands together for Sinnamon!

I miss East St Louis

Well, I guess that tells me that over a thousand other posters agree with me. Must be some truth to it.

Believe it or not, not everyone on this forum has been on it for months or years. I will make sure that I read every post on the entire forum before posting anything else as to not risk repeating anything. I would hate to incite you into displaying that razor-sharp wit and humor on me again. Now excuse me, I have to go tend to my burns.

Awesome! I personally would surely appreciate that.

I didn't expect anyone to post that. Thank you.

You are surely welcome! I admire your dedication to read every post ever posted on pinside. TigerLaw is the only other person to ever do that. He now types with a plastic tube from his mouth but he's super smart with all that knowledge downloaded into his nugget.

I beg to differ. Premiums are basically on par with older Stern games; Pros are 'reduced' to some extent. (Do the Premiums have rail supports, or those lame pegs? Not sure.)

If you're asking what Stern has made that's on par with MM but have yet to play ACDC, you need to do more homework, Son.
And quit bashin! There's awesome games from both companies and enough for everyone to enjoy!

If the pegs bother you, the playfield supports are just $55 at PBL. The Pros do have some features removed relative to the Premium, but when I compare Metallica Pro to LOTR it doesn't feel "stripped down" at all, other than the lack of a physical ball lock. And of course the audio quality and art quality on MET are much better.

The Pros are still a pretty good deal at the moment. I dont feel the need to get a Premium unless the Pro has a fatal flaw (like a huge sneering face).

It seems to me that they're just adding unnecessary/complicated stuff to the premiums. Worst offenders are the moving ramp on Xmen and bad playfields/ramps on Transformers.

It doesn't make any sense to compare a Pro from today to a Pro from the old days. Content wise they are not remotely similar.

So the moving ramp is unnecessary because you don't like how it fits in with the game play? I think its fine, not the best toy ever but its far from being unnecessary. I can't imagine playing XMEN without the Nightcrawlers or the spinning disc, if I owned the Pro I would be constantly reminded that parts were left out of the game that should have been there. More important in my eyes is the changing GI lighting, it really sets a mood with XMEN.

Transformers was an entirely different scenario and I agree the mini playfield on that game is a complete waste, but its not surprising since it was tacked on to the game after the Pro was designed. I wish that transforming mini playfield came to fruition!

I am not a fan of the limited model either and I have said years ago in other places (RGP, KLOV, etc) that the LE model was just a ploy to raise prices. The premium is a step in the right direction but unfortunately a premium was not made for every LE Stern.

Speaking of LE models I wish Stern made a Combo LE for XMEN.

Agreed, the modern Pro is much better.

How is technology advancing at Stern? Can you name one "innovation" they've done?

Their games are still in mono. P2K was in stereo.

Stern is worthy of many accolades, but "innovation" IMO has never been one of them. Stern has copied other peoples' tech since day one. They weren't even the first company to offer LE machines.

The modern pros are stripped down versions, similar to the costco versions that were discontinued, then renamed pro

I'm on the fence with it. I really like getting the LE versions but I realized I couldn't just keep buying every single LE that came out. Unfortunately the way things are now, if you don't buy one 2 months in advance, you are looking at getting priced out. I would have liked to get a Metallica LE but I didn't preorder one and obviously we know what happens in this situation. I guess Stern is at least offering the premium.

Nope. Look even a MOP/MET LE just sold for 7500 and you will find more at that price or better, especially once ST hits. Every LE has been available. Tron LEs were around a long time and even after they took off a few were sold at reasonable prices. But lets be honest. ACDC and Tron are big tickets, every other game is much cheaper now.
More importantly except for tron and including ACDC every LE has been flawed. Buying later is smart. Those of us that lined up for LE after LE took it up the arse until we won't anymore.
Stern would have lost me except they nailed it on Metallica Pro. I see hope and if things stay positive in that direction they will get me for a more games.

These comments are always made without evidence or examples. Content-free post.

I went MOPLE in the first week when the Premium was only announced as the horrid road case version (and THAT was no coincidence). As long as the premiums continue with the idea of identical gameplay to the LE I won't be doing LE again.

That's funny you mention that because I was just thinking the same thing myself while I was updating my MM using a USB drive. Friggin thieves.

Stupid thread is stupid.

Well, those leg guards are brilliant. Shocked no one did this sooner.

How about software controlled color changing LED's. AC/DC was the first pin with those, correct me if I'm wrong. Or software controlled color changing fiber on Tron Le's.

You are entitled to your opinion, although its a bit confusing I've never seen someone argue for fewer parts at a higher price before.

The leg protectors were born out of necessity. If it wasn't for those of us who bought Stern's first foray into decals and complained about leg wear they would have never come out with them.

The lit ramps on Tron LE was definitely a cool innovation, too bad it wasnt on all of the Tron games since it fit the theme so well.

Must the evidence, which is staring you right in the face, be spelled out in every post? Seriously you have almost 27k pkp and don't know what is meant when comparing the modern pro to the Costco version? One similarity, the latch style lockdown bar.

I think comparing the modern pro to the Costco version was just an exaggeration to make a point.

I hope they don't put themselves out of business.

Some people will never be happy. I like the latch style lockdown. I'm not crazy about the playfield supports, but I like the fact that I have the option of not buying the more expensive ones. Your "exaggeration" was rude. If you don't like the Pro model, don't buy it!

I'm cool with the latch down . Support bars a mistake. Otherwise I find the met pro to be worth every penny.

Dudes! You are killing me, Stern needs to throw that style in the freaking scrapheap! You ever get a ball stuck and then have to fiddle with unlatching the hooks, sure you could leave them loose, but its an abomination!!!!