Good thing you are a JJP dealer then!

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rlevin
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4 MONTHS AGO | # QUOTE | !! © | IGNORE
I am a JJP dealer now and the profit margin is a lot better with them. THere is very little profit in the Stern product. Once you sell at their MSRP of 4995.00 on their Pros and ad 200.00 shipping and bank fee's and another 200.00 to 400.00 for free shipping to your customer it is a wash.
Yea and it was my LE that got bumped which sucks even worse. I do get heated but this is been going on for a while. My rep Jim Beltmen is kind of a prick and they have this air about them that you are so lucky just to be selling their pins. I have 200 pins stocked in the warehouse and should keep me going till the next warehouse raid

I'm ok with this. Yes, I understand how much this sucks for smaller distributors, but the distributor model is getting horribly abused by enough people that Stern has to pull back and do this. Sorry that this is having an effect on you, Dale, but you were going JJP only anyway, right?

I hope that this also allows Stern to put some more regulations on distributors who just buy games to sit on them. I know most of the smaller guys are the ones doing this, but it's crappy no matter who is doing it. A lot of distributors bought games that they had no intention of selling to the public until after their prices spiked, such as what happened with Tron and Metallica LE models.

Again, it's a bit of a bummer, but the consumer will actually benefit from this since so many of these machines are just being drop shipped anyway.

One of the biggest Stern distributors out there does this.

Distributor model from Stern is broken.. See the large amount of 'preorders' that weren't filled with METLE.

Stern is gonna find out the hard way how to do business with collectors. We don't forget when most of us have to save to buy a pin nib.

Sounds to me like you're bent. No indication of any mention of price increases beyond your title, so sounds like you're trying to fan some flames that don't exist.

I happen to agree with Stern's direction. The distributor model has been abused by them, almost anyone can become one. While that sounds nice and cushy for people, nobody stops to realize that maintaining that has a cost in Stern's overhead.

I suspect them focusing on their largest customers will make stuff like this less likely to happen again. Less balls in the air to juggle.

I'm simply not going to feel sorry for the person who uses their Stern distributorship to corner the LE's and then use them as bait to obtain all the top W/B games in tip-top condition. I'm very happy if the party is over. It's very bad for the hobby.

Well said Flipperfingers! +1 on that

There is the positive and negative to this, less distributers means less competition and higher prices potentially. I hope it finds a happy medium for all.

You never know, maybe they ARE out to get you.

Ladies and Gents, I don't believe this action on Sterns part is intended to or will result in higher prices. Stern has cut distributors that were not meeting their expectations. I would bet that most if not all of the recommended A+ distributors you guys know and trust are still in great shape. As always The Game Exchange remains committed to having the best customer service in the business and will continue to deliver both service and competitive pricing.

Stern's distribution program has had too many dealers in it for some time, and I believe the network had just become unmanageable as has been shown in recent releases. This move on Sterns part is a very good thing for you the consumers because its a step forward to preventing an oversold situation such as many collector's experienced on the Metallica LE release.

As for the dealers whom were cut, I understand your frustration. We will help you continue to serve your customers, and if you would like our help please contact me.
JJ

When I started reading that, I thought it was going to end with "...so we're going to stop using distributors and sell directly to customers." Can someone explain to me what the upside is for Stern, when so many machines are going to directly into someone's basement?

If they sell to just a few distributors they don't have to keep a large sales team in house. A lot of companies use this model so that can focus on their core business, in this case designing and building pinballs. They already get slammed constantly for their customer service, so imagine if you bought the game directly from them. Yikes!

When there is an extra step in the chain chances of price increase are very likely. The big distributors that sell to smaller distributors / resellers still want to make money, so they use a markup. The same goes for the eventual reseller.

It does make me wonder how much extra work these smaller distributers actually cause. Sure there is some extra paperwork, but is eliminating the paperwork worth pissing off these smaller distributors? Not sure if this is such a good idea business-wise.

I see it the same way. I don't think they are trying to screw over the little man, I think they are trying to stop people from pretending to be distributors to acquire NIB machines at cost to either keep or trade for high priced used games.

Are there any distributors who buy a decent amount of games each cycle (10+), sell them, and provide support that are being tossed out?

I feel bad for the distributors that got pushed out, but I'm also glad to see this. It seemed like there were an awful lof of distributors running out of their garage, and with no bankroll at all to absorb mistakes with.

If they are going to make this change then they should also make>>>

All LEs should be 1 per person with a direct sale from Stern. The game ships direct from Stern, it seems they are able to sell out almost every good LE instantaneously, and this could potentially get more games into end users hands for the MSRP instead of some of the bigger distributors having even more ability to corner the supply and then resell through their buddies as front men.

One of the largest Stern distributors is doing this already and now it sounds like they will have nearly unlimited ability to buy up LEs. This is the one BAD thing I see from this change.

I've always felt that LEs should be direct sales from Stern or a limited (and well known) number to distributors as rewards based on sales levels. LE sales need to be strictly controlled, because the Metallica LE mess was awful.

A lot of what is happening here has to be a reaction to abuse by distributors. I get that Stern doesn't have the infrastructure to handle all of the sales and support in house, so they need to have some distributors, but keeping them limited and regulated is the best route going forward.

Guys like JJ, Trent, or Cointaker have been doing right by hobbyists all along. I'm sure this is only good for us as it will mean increased supplies for them.

Yeah. I don't necessarily see any problem with this. The Stern distributor network is way overextended. It's really sad when a mess like the Metallica LE situation develops, and then months later you see Stern distributors themselves selling the games. (Like you can find right now in the market)

I understand why Stern allows it distributors to speculate, but it doesn't mean I have to like it. And it's definitely not good for consumers as it currently stands. I hope this does help alleviate some problems, but Im not holding my breath.

I was just going to say that! I saw that yesterday and was not surprised at all it wasnt placed in the forum, people would be getting retired left and right!

All hell would have broken lose. We might have even lost a moderator over the whole episode. It just doesn't seem right that people were desperate for this game, and then months later you see the same people who were supposed to help others get it, selling them at a huge mark up.

I think Stern believes it needs the distributors for LEs though. It almost guarantees that all of them will be sold as soon as they are announced, whether the game turns out to be a dog or not. Stern takes the game off the books, and moves on to the Pros, Premiums, and next game.

The flip side is that it results in the company's own distributors (and front men) acting as hoarders, and driving the market themselves. Which is a sad thing to see.

WOW>

not 1 but 2

http://pinside.com/pinball/market/ad/7677

http://pinside.com/pinball/market/ad/7678

How does an authorized Stern distributor have 2 NIB METLEs for sale currently at the inflated market price???

If anyone needs more evidence of which 'distributors' to NOT support, there you go.

They might be breaking their distributor agreement. Whine to Stern and snitch them out.

To be fair, there aren't prices listed. So they could actually be at a lower price, maybe even what they were around the time of the announcement.

You would think this type of thing would cause friction between Stern distributors themselves. Imagine if you were a distributor who had your order cut, and then to see games popping up months later for sale. At the least, you would think they would be upset with Stern for allowing it to happen.

Huh? Are they using index cards and abacuses to keep track of dealers and sales? Since when does it make a difference whether you have 50 dealers or 5000 in a database? If nobody's buying games, there's no tech support needed.

I think what's really happening here is Stern realizes they can make more money selling direct, and they're seeing consumers buy games in bulk and flip them and want some of that money themselves.

It's always cheaper and more efficient to have 7 customers than it is to have 70. I can see this from Stern's point of view.

Yea, and then when you lose one customer you lose 14% of your revenue instead of 1.4%

Bingo.....

I'll never buy another pin from Automated because of the whole hoarding issue designed to drive up prices with Le's.....

The premium's, now that Stern does them, are the way to go anyhow, ST will probably be my last Le unless its a another great theme.....

It's obviously designed to take care of the larger distributors, and their allocations of Le's, I get that from Stern's point of view and I can see why the big guys would complain about it, especially on the next round of ST Le's......those guys want to pocket as much $$$ as possible and they are the ones doing most of the service....

It will hurt Stern in the long run though, the "Le" craze isn't going to go on for much longer, people are getting wiser (I think) as more options become available.....

Like whysnow said, if its such a problem and huge issue, make the Le's direct, they are going to homeowners anyhow.......

How is Stern going to lose a customer? Dale won't sell Stern pins anymore, but if one of his customers wants a game, there are still plenty of options to buy from. For a guy like Dale, the bulk of his money comes from used games anyway, not really from new games sales.

Moving to Stern pinball sub forum.

wow, great way to promote your business ethics

I honestly don't think this will change things. I know a few people who hoard the LE's and this will have zero impact on them. They will still be able to get them for good prices and sit and wait for them to sell out and then flip. Trust me, this frustrates me just as much as you but I don't think it will change at all. The only thing that is going to change is probably the good prices we were getting on NIB machines from distributors competing with each other for business.

I don't know what to even think about people paying above retail price for an LE.....if you missed out or couldn't get in, forget it and move on to the premium.....its NOT a great investment for the long term "collector" at these prices and the coming volume from several manufacturers and technology advancements

Scalpers love chasers......

The hobby and industry is small enough that it only takes a handful of major distributors to fight for business enough that it will keep prices the same. Heck, just between Game Exchange, Cointaker, and Tilt Amusements you'd have enough of a bidding war for our business that it would be fine. There will still be plenty of buying options and it will be easy to still shop around.

Very few positive posts on here. Surprising in my opinion.
A short while back, there were multiple threads from angry Pinsiders who missed out on Metallica LEs, after having placed a pre-order.
Stern seems to be making changes that should help solve issues like this in the future.
(Any of you understand how tough it is to organize pre-books for a title when you have way too many distributors? Unless you have an electronic system in place where they commit to a purchase order, good luck!)
Now some of you are assuming that pins will be more expensive, and/or that Stern is doing this to make more money?
Some days you just can't win I guess. Especially given that even if pin prices go up, I don't expect there were many Metallica-wanting Pinsiders who wouldn't have paid an extra $100-$200 to have had an LE on launch day.
We even saw Pinsiders threatening to sue Stern!

What I see is a flawed system that is being corrected.

Thing is, people DON'T pay "retail" for them most of the time. Technically, the MSRP of Avengers LE is $8,099. Metallica LE was similar until they fnally updated the website to reflect that it is sold out.

Stern will likely raise the MSRP of Star Trek when it is released... they have no reason not to. MSRP is like that room price on the hotel room door - absolute workst-case "we CAN charge this if we want." If the game is a turd, then discounts start to appear. If the game is a hit, they can milk it for max profits.

If anyone complains to Stern about distributor hoarding and not being able to find a STLE, I'm betting their response will be to point them to a distributor who will be happy to sell them one for the MSRP of $8,500 or so. How many people here are willing to pay 8500 for a Star Trek LE?

people were paying that much for the met le in canada from the distro. crazy but true. could happen with stle, depends on the launch hype.

When I say "retail" I mean the reality price, from the distributors, you can slap an MSRP of whatever you want on anything, the real price or "wholesale", whatever you want to call is the distributor pricing.......thus the MSRP is totally meaningless and ridiculous

You realize the R in MSRP stands for retail? What you're trying to say is street price.

You didn't read my whole post. When people complain to Stern that they can't find LE gamnes for under 7K like they're used to paying, Stern will point out the MSRP is $8XXX and they'll happily connect you with a distie who will sell you one for that price.

The distie cull is a way for Stern to control the low end of pricing and get a handle on LE availability complaints. Methinks the end result will be more LEs available, but at higher overall prices, which is what Stern wants. If STLE is a hit, there may be quite a few people paying MSRP. Stern maximizes profits by selling games tho those willing to pay full price, and not to those who have "connections."

This is no big deal. They should have had a sales threshold to begin with. Why have a bunch of dealers who only sell a few games a year?

????????

Am I missing where it says they are LEs? Couldn't they be premiums?

Stern doesn't see a dime of the money over what they get for each game they sell to a distributor which is why it would be odd that they would cut down the number of distributors they sell to. Provided they have one "distributor price" it would seem odd that they would give a shit how many distributors they have and you'd think all they'd care about is selling games period. What any given distributor charges has zero impact on the amount of money Stern collected for that game. Maybe all these little guys who called themselves distributors were able to buy a game or two for the distributor price but ultimately Stern didn't lose any money on selling to them.

Ralph >> Advert appears to have been modified from earlier???

Okay... I was going to say that there is nothing there that states LEs.... If they were indeed LEs that would be VERY interesting for other reasons I am not going to publicly state...

Here I was expecting to be disappointed that facts of yet another price increase was on the horizon and all I got was someone pissed off they got cut as a distributor. It was a nice surprise finding out that there is not an official announcement regarding a price increase but the title name could use some work.

I sure hope your wrong about that. IMO if the prices get to out of hand it could quickly deflate the pinball boom we have seen of late.