JPop, I think you mean, not JJP?

I think the answer as to why they haven't dealt with affected parties in an appropriate manner is plain to see in those photos.

This is going to be extremely expensive. If everyone with pf issues wants one, this is going to easily run into the high hundreds of units, I would have thought. All the small number of GBs that I've seen (Pros and Premiums) have had playfield defects or damage, so maybe it would even reach well over a thousand. Of course, I doubt even 50% will contact Stern about the problems, let alone seek replacement. But still.

Courier return one way, pallet freight back, within the US, is going to cost a lot. Outside the US ... well they're surely going to have to do it via resellers / distributors, which still, will cost an absolute fortune. That's to say nothing of the actual cost of the playfield, parts and labour. What about the retailers in Europe that have replaced entire machines at their own cost already? If replacements are approved, they'll no doubt be getting large invoices and demands for payment from them, if they haven't already.

But I have little sympathy for Stern. They knowingly continued shipping faulty product for many months, and have even had the audacity to use the (faulty) Fun playfields instead of Churchill for some (all?) of the tiny number of replacements so far, with ghosting again occurring within a handful of games.

Also, if they do acquiesce to mass replacements ... what happens to all the used parts on returned, populated playfields? I'd be seriously worried about getting used parts if I were ordering a new machine.

The Medieval Madness Remake is produced under a contract manufacturing agreement by Stern. It was the first title to show a mass of QC issues, after assembly was moved from CGC themselves to Stern. I don't think now is a good time to buy new any Stern or Stern-made machines.

Since Attack From Mars Remake (CGC's second remake) is being taken back in house for manufacture, it's possible they may bring MMr back as well.

Bide your time or look at other options. You probably have the bug, but it would be wise to wait.

March .... tons of the first lot of SMVEs were really bad. But there were sporadic and increasing numbers of issues before that.

Post photos. Expose the ruse.

That's immensely incriminating, and also a laughably amateurish and slapdash attempt to cover up what they're doing.

They must assume their customers all have IQs in single figures.

With stuff like this floating around, I'd imagine it would be in their best interests to resolve all this before it goes to court ...

The programme where they ignore the vast majority of cases, then select a few people they think they might be able to sucker. Then pull out an old known-defective playfield, and cack-handedly try to wipe out date stamps, then re-stamp / label them with a later date that they think people will believe are fixed (or Churchill). These then ghost or lose clear in a few dozen plays, then when called out on it they throw their arms up in denial and offer no further resolution.

Sounds awesome. Why would anyone complain? Exemplary service.

Stern burnt them, and they seem to be perfectly happily dousing more in petrol still.

Also, their warranty is meaningless. These are production or engineering defects.

Plus, they have to abide by legislation in other territories which is rather more favourable to the consumer. Hence why some resellers / distributors in Europe have replaced machines at their own expense - apparently with no recompense from Stern. That doesn't seem like a tenable situation, does it?

Read this thread, and no ... hence why the thread and petition exist.

Surely that has to be an oversight? Could it have been left out during assembly?

Can others confirm their games are like this too?

I don't see how they can get away with having no protective layer over the LCD. As you hint at, operators will be lining up with burning torches if they've left that out.

Even if there's no malicious or accidental drunken damage, a cleaner is probably going to spray it with the wrong stuff and damage it.

That doesn't mean they have any intention of helping people who have already shipped messed up playfields. Indeed, we still see little if any evidence of that.

The cratering - not 'dimpling' - on some of the BM66s (combined with clear chipping and ghosting) is absolutely crazy though, so perhaps it's reached the point where they feel they can no longer ship them. That point should have been reached 10 months ago.

If true, this is going to be a very costly shutdown for them, and perhaps with no resolution in sight given the rumours that Churchill have walked again.

But we'll see if either BM66 or any of the other game owners actually get resolution any time soon ...

Operation fatten the books looks like it might finally be about to implode.

That means this is one of the FUN pfs, not a Churchill one.

As far as we know, all replacement pfs so far, of the few received, are FUN rather than Churchill. Seems like Stern are still trying to cheap this out.

Wouldn't surprise me if this is from old or originally rejected stock, either ... especially as it's immediately started chipping again.

They're taking the piss.

Of the ones I've seen, the saucers get worse and worse ... after the clear chips, the wood starts getting chewed up, and quickly.

"I am buying a new GB Premium at the end of the month with my fingers crossed and praying that I get a good product."

No offence, but that is utterly moronic.

Where's the fire? Who's holding the gun to your head? Why would you do that when you know very well that besides playfields falling to pieces, QC is at an all time low.

Just wait and see if anything actually gets fixed.

It's painfully obvious that you're trying to convince yourself of something that the rational part of your mind is likely screaming blue murder about.

Do you seriously believe that they have 'fixed' pfs when BM'66s are cratering (not dimpling - cratering) within a few dozen games, and clear is chipping within a similar number of games on a host of titles.

About standing behind their product and replacing pfs ... you do realise that all the replacement pfs have been with Fun ones, not Churchill, most of which are chipping or ghosting again within a few games. Of the minute number that have been replaced, they're all GB and nothing else.

Oh, and it's being strongly suggested that Churchill have walked out on Stern after a short few months working with them again.

You're in denial, man.

There's no evidence whatsoever that it has improved.

There is nothing normal about the 'dimpling' (cratering) on some of the BM'66s. It's way too deep to even out, and the larger craters have sharp edges where the clear appears to be hairline cracked ... they're not the more normal smooth sided dimples - the ball is clearly sinking some way into the pf before it rebounds.

You're still trying to rationalise the irrational, and you keep talking about belief and faith .... is this a religion and is Gary Stern god?

Any update?

Also, will you be 'satisfied' if you receive one of the Fun pfs with misspelled insert, which obviously has a high likelihood of clear coat issues and insert ghosting, and which to our knowledge all pf replacements so far have been?

Furthermore, they still aren't replacing any of the non Ghostbusters pfs, or not clear / insert issue ones (faulty print registration and colour issues for example) ... did they mention anything about other titles or other pfs with major issues being replaced? Did you raise the issue of Fun vs. Churchill?

It certainly looks like there is here. Indeed, it looks like the inserts are warped slightly and lifting right out ...

trimoto - take some more close up photos of this area ..

I think your Extra Ball and the inserts to the left of it (storage facility, add a ball, multipliers) are all ghosted and lifting ... they look like they've risen some way out of the playfield.

I think you'll find if you run your finger over them, you'll feel a pronounced edge.

This definitely needs replacement IMO. They're raised enough that the ball will begin causing serious damage eventually.

This coming from the guy who tries to convince others that Stern no longer have pf problems, on faith and belief alone?

Explain what we're seeing here:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/changeorg-petition-gary-stern-replace-defective-playfields/page/24#post-3647018

And why we see exactly the same in a follow up shot:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/changeorg-petition-gary-stern-replace-defective-playfields/page/24#post-3647050

Pretty sure it's not mylar unfortunately

I don't think the pf date was ever corrected on Fun manufactured pfs. Only the Churchill ones.