(Topic ID: 178110)

Change.org Petition: Gary Stern Replace Defective Playfields

By kpg

7 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 1,257 posts
  • 193 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by Schabs81
  • Topic is favorited by 27 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

DSC_3257 (resized).JPG
DSC_3259 (resized).JPG
IMG_20170318_162208 (resized).jpg
IMG_1552 (resized).JPG
IMG_1550 (resized).JPG
IMG_1555 (resized).JPG
IMG_1547.JPG
IMG_1541.JPG
IMG_1542.JPG
IMG_1528.JPG
IMG_2441 (resized).JPG
IMG_1540.JPG
IMG_1538.JPG
honda_accord_99-03 (resized).jpg
ec0f66aced98c3183be5458f366883201f31ba47 (resized).jpg
14868616957031880555332 (resized).jpg

Topic index (key posts)

3 key posts have been marked in this topic

Display key post list sorted by: Post date | Keypost summary | User name

Post #830 Update on playfields stocking according to Stern Posted by Manimal (7 years ago)

Post #839 Story of a Pro owner's PF swap Posted by JoshODBrown (7 years ago)

Post #878 replacement playfield recieved - dated jan 5, 2017 Posted by RickAHG (7 years ago)


Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider kpg.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

39
#1 7 years ago

Hello,

Many of you may already be up to date on the significant manufacturing defects of current Stern Pinball machine playfields. If you are not, feel free to catch up by browsing this lengthy thread here on Pinside:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/hey-stern-are-you-serious

In summary, many customers, including myself, have received New in Box pinball machines that were purchased, unboxed, and were discovered to have minor to significant manufacturing defects such as "ghosting" inserts, chipping/flaking clear coat, etc.

Gary Stern and Stern Pinball, along with customer's distributors, were immediately contacted mid-2016. There was a promise of a "Playfield Replacement Program" that has never seemed to officially be announced or started. There are only 1-2 people who claim to have received a new playfield, one of which claimed it was another defective playfield that has ghosted again already.

Gary Stern personally reached out to me in August 2016 and said to expect a replacement in October 2016, which did not happen- and now I no longer receive responses or acknowledgements when I reach out for an update. The latest update was from Patrick Powers who no longer is specifying a replacement date, other than "It has been pushed back".

Due to the mishandling of communication and following through with the promised replacement program, I have created an online petition as the start of potential legal action on behalf of customers that purchased a defective product from Stern Pinball Inc.

Please sign this petition if you are either a customer who purchased a defective product, or thinks Stern should make it right for those customers who have been affected. The petition on Change.org is here:

https://www.change.org/p/gary-stern-replace-defective-stern-pinball-machine-playfields

I will provide updates as I work towards a positive resolution for the pinball community and customers of Stern Pinball Inc.

Kris

6ef7995d95e31b7525dea5de32339cb4fb59bc09 (resized).png6ef7995d95e31b7525dea5de32339cb4fb59bc09 (resized).png

#2 7 years ago

2016-08-15 20.54.00 (resized).jpg2016-08-15 20.54.00 (resized).jpg
2016-08-08 21.13.57 (resized).jpg2016-08-08 21.13.57 (resized).jpg
2016-08-14 15.45.22 (resized).jpg2016-08-14 15.45.22 (resized).jpg
66fc284f0815695a56253ad0de4795ff98e1d596 (resized).jpg66fc284f0815695a56253ad0de4795ff98e1d596 (resized).jpg
2cc04d696f0feb29593832f7ba556fc8a145c7c1 (resized).jpg2cc04d696f0feb29593832f7ba556fc8a145c7c1 (resized).jpg

a96d66266a248d49688b75d25337ebf8eb25bd2a (resized).jpega96d66266a248d49688b75d25337ebf8eb25bd2a (resized).jpeg

2016-08-15 20.58.29 (resized).jpg2016-08-15 20.58.29 (resized).jpg

37
#11 7 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

So you are comparing a tiny niche hobby that most people don't even know exists with one of the largest, most recognizable companies on the planet with literally hundreds of millions customers? Well, stranger things have happened. Vaya con dio, my friend.

It's a consumer product, sold to consumers. MBP's were $2500-3K, and these machines are now selling up to $15,000

Don't care how small the company is, maybe Stern thinks like you- maybe they think they are "Too small to fail" - but they are at least a $40-50M company, and have the financial ability to make this right- and afford to cover legal fees for attorneys.

Levi, you are the reason companies think they can get over on customers with that attitude. Since you werent affected, step aside, and let Stern defend themselves. They don't need a self-proclaimed "Crazy" person jumping on the soap box and acting like their personal Iraqi Information Minister.

53529697 (resized).jpg53529697 (resized).jpg

#19 7 years ago
Quoted from CrazyLevi:

I'm sure KPG's is in the mail. Or at least I hope it is already!

Yeah, right.

Let's see if he's the first person to get a replacement that isn't also defective. There are no reports of a replacement GBLE playfield yet, especially one that isn't also affected by ghosting.

#22 7 years ago
Quoted from 1967Firebird:

Please let us know who your distributor was they made money off this transaction as well. Where are they in all of this? Let's hold them accountable as well.

Trent @ Tilt amusements is my distributor. He has mentioned his only recourse is to email Stern and hope they reply to him, which doesn't seem to be the case. He sent an email to them last week, and I asked if they replied yet (that was a couple days ago) and he hasn't gotten back to me either. I assume Stern had no information and keeps giving him the runaround as well.

#24 7 years ago
Quoted from 1967Firebird:

Thanks for the update I would have thought distributors would have more influence.
John

Apparently not, which is unfortunate. They seem just as irritated with this process as us customers, and I'm sure it affects their personal sales and revenue as well.

#30 7 years ago
Quoted from jgentry:

Great, now none of us are going to get invited to the pinball army
All joking aside, if you haven't noticed stern holds grudges with people that are publically critical of them. I wouldn't be surprised if stern just ignores kpg forever now. They seem extremely arrogant on these types of issues.
I signed my petition with my wallet a while ago.

They are going to quickly realize that ignoring certain customers is a bad idea. It might work with some, others it just pisses off even more.

#41 7 years ago
Quoted from Mike_J:

Only buy NIB with an American Express card.
These sh*t discounts distributors offer for cash or bank transfer aren't worth it.

You are totally right. I ended up wiring him the money because he wanted a 4-5% additional if paying by CC which was kind of crazy. But in my defense, I didn't know that until after I waited months and then he asked for final payment. If I ever buy another NIB, it will be by credit card only.

I wish there was reasonable pricing to buy through Amazon.. if there was a problem, Amazon would take my return in two seconds and send that shit right back to Stern and deal with them instead of a distributor. That's why amazon is the best place to buy things online- they have the customers back no matter what.

15
#45 7 years ago
Quoted from catboxer:

I'm all for the replacement playfields, but change.org? Lol.org

Thanks for your concern and sympathy to people who have purchased defective products from Stern. Clearly you are not one of them, so thanks for your very productive and intelligent post here on Pinside.

#49 7 years ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

Amen to you brother!
I think stern has the best pins on the market and do shit good...for the most part. That said; it is too bad they're treating customers like this with no answers or statements. They work harder at censoring negativity than they do making things right. I bet Jody already has a few emails out to Robin on this thread alone, I'm curious what will come first; stern making things right - or Stern getting Robin to close this thread down.
Good luck to you KPG, if the company and distributors we continue to support don't have our backs, im glad you do.
/popcorn

Thank you my friend!!!

I am very confident this will all work out positively for us customers, and Gary Stern & Co. will come up with something soon to address this- after all, that would be the right thing to do. I don't think it needs to go further than this, but all options need to be on the table.

I think they need to appoint the person involved with promoting the BM66 SLE application & website to run the Playfield Replacement Program.

If they have the time and resources to issue applications, create a standalone website, review them, and then decide who can send them $15,000 of their hard earned money- surely they have the resources to create a replacement program document, standalone website, review all submissions, then decide to replace defective parts for those who already sent them $5-8,000+ of their hard earned money.

17
#54 7 years ago
Quoted from nate1981s:

All of this is great but the playfields are not made by Stern right? A playfield swap is very costly. Every playfield they swap probably eliminates any profit from that machine. I would be pissed if I had one with bad clearcoat but really do you think they are going to do anything about this considering they have to eat all of that labor and answer to the investors?

It's simple then.. parden my French.. but if they don't, I assure you that unless they hire someone to physically take me out- I'll see to it that someone sues the fuck out of them on our behalf.

-6
#65 7 years ago
Quoted from kermit24:

Ummmm - You know that is not true. I have my replacement LE playfield..

Ok, one guy who says they got a replacement.

I asked you in another thread to post pictures of the GBLE playfield's date stamp and you never did. Any other evidence of a replacement?

#68 7 years ago
Quoted from kermit24:

It is happening.

Ok great, we have 1 person who has received a new playfield.

The rest have heard nothing and are told there is no ETA and the program has been pushed back.

Not sure what criteria they use to determine who gets a playfield, but only one person since their October replacement date is pretty sad.

#78 7 years ago
Quoted from MrBally:

OP, never, ever let someone know you're thinking of suing them. Jody already told Gary who CONtacted his Lawyer and is preparing a response.

Amazing - that would mean they have done more to defend themselves against litigation than to actually make it right for their customers - well, for all of them except one guy (Kermit)

I really hope their lawyer gets involved- maybe he'll tell them what debacle they will be in if they don't come through and replace everyone's defective playfields. One customer playfield replaced since they were made aware of it in august 2016 won't cut it.

#85 7 years ago
Quoted from cosmokramer:

Kermit is not the only one who has received their GBLE replacement playfield...

Ok, who else and will they post it here?

500 GBLE's

Dozens reported here of playfield defects

1 Pinsider showing a replacement, maybe one more.

Doesn't change anything here. Go look at all the comments on the petition stating they haven't heard anything regarding their replacement PF. Many people upset and zero communication. At least one guy has been made whole..

#92 7 years ago
Quoted from zucot:

I got my replacement LE playfield a few days ago and it arrived in perfect working order. Stern does what they say they will, even if it takes longer than anyone would like, them included.
Bitching about it here or starting change.org petitions isn't going to accomplish anything. But hey, it's cool to be negative on pinside. It will take time. They will make it right.

It's cool to be negative on pinside.. well, must be nice if you got a new playfield and everyone else hasn't - so you aren't in my shoes.

Regardless, glad you got a playfield. That's a whopping 2 people out of how many? Definitely better than none I guess. What is the date stamp on your PF?

#108 7 years ago
Quoted from 1967Firebird:

The distributor is supposed to help the coustomer that is who we are buying it from. That is why I love Costco I buy a product from them and if I have an issue I don't call the manufacturer I go to Costco. I just think the distributor should have a bigger part. I wonder if you bought local and took it back to them what they would do and if they would have to return it?
middleman. unless they take the hit on a refund? actually thats the buyers money anyway.. so they really are not out pocket...other than having a returned machine, they obviously cant sell... which then, they can sort out with Stern ? the distributor is the point of sale right? with no liability.

Only problem is it seems Stern doesn't really give two shits about helping distributors out much either.

I emailed Trent @ Tilt last night to see if he got a reply back from Stern yet- which he sent an email a week ago- and said he hasn't heard anything. He's going to follow up again. Crazy they have the audacity to ignore one of their biggest distributors when he reaches out to them.

I'm willing to bet when he places orders for games they are lightning quick at responding though!

#117 7 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Everybody needs to take a breath. Take a step back and avoid going into full blown hysteria.
The communication is terrible but nobody has ever come up with a time that Stern didn't stand behind their products. Ever.
Things will get resolved, maybe not on the timeline some people want but Vid has the right idea, a little bit of patience.

I get your point. I did do that.. back in August when I got my machine.

I've been patient

I've played the machine enough and beat up the old playfield.

I want to sell the machine now. It has been almost 6 months of being patient.

No one responds at Stern to both myself or my distributor.. I have no idea if I am even getting a new playfield.

Its easy to say relax and wait when you're not the person who has skin in the game and who has been lied to.

#122 7 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I'm not referring to your situation. I'd be dealing with them privately now at this point though.
I don't see you getting anywhere other than the back of the line by the constant pounding

Dude.. you are an attorney... since when do attorney's advise on being quiet, waiting, and hoping things pan out vs constant pounding?

Every attorney I have worked with in the past has always been successful by pounding the shit out of the other party.. and getting consistent results. Ice, I like you buddy.. but I don't think you would be the guy for someone like me to hire then! haha

#124 7 years ago

My goal is to get 100 signatures on this - almost there- that's when I can get to the next part of all of this.

If you haven't signed please do so.. thanks!!

#127 7 years ago
Quoted from MrBally:

Benson, Shafer, Brady and for those overseas; Lowen and Bally Wolff. Those are big distributors.
Nothing against them, but they are nowhere near the size of the ones that cater to the route operators.

Maybe that's the problem, Trent is too small and they don't give him and his customers priority? Not sure, but it is disappointing to hear from Trent that they don't even respond to him either.

#134 7 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

What I do appreciate very much is the petition to Stern as a consolidated expression of our frustrations. That's a good thing
Legally, this is going nowhere. Mark my words.

I hope it does not need to go that far, but straight from the mouth of an attorney I've already contacted and discussed this matter- there is definitely a potential case here if Stern does not address this issue with a proper repair and replacement program and communicate this properly to customers who were sold defective merchandise.

#137 7 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

100% agree there is a potential case IF they don't address it properly.
The fact is, even though I know very little about consumer protection I guarantee Stern has documented every step they have taken towards a remedy. They are well within reasonable time frames to determine the problem and provide a remedy under the law
The communication part is terrible. Not sure why they want to intentionally shoot themselves in the foot

Exactly.

They could resolve this as early as tomorrow and announce a dedicated website and submission form, along with updating the public on the status of the program.

Pretty much the same amount of work they did to gather applications for BM66 SLE.

It blows me away they just don't make it happen at this point.. it's a win/win for everyone involved.

#138 7 years ago

Thanks for posting this - it was recommended the first step was to get a public petition going and gather at least 100 signatures, then submit it to the attorney general to get that part going. So yes - that is the plan

-24
#170 7 years ago
Quoted from MapleSyrup:

This thread is embarrassing. It's everything I hate about The Internet, and Pinside wrapped up in a tidy bow!
I'm sorry that anybody is having issues. I've had plenty of issues with my machines over the years. Usually, I write to Stern, or call them, we start a dialogue, and the issue gets solved. Also happens with JJP, and Spooky.
Change.org is a place to go demand clean water for people living on Reservations. It's a place to raise awareness about deplorable conditions at home and abroad that demand action... It's not a place for rich dudes to whine about tiny defects in their $8K toys. What sort of reality distortion bubble do you guys live in??!
KPG, I don't know you at all, and I have no desire to insult you, or make this personal.
You have some issues with your playfield. You raised a stink, and Gary CALLED YOU PERSONALLY!!! He assured you Stern would look after you, and that they were working out the logistics. We are seeing it happen. There have been some more issues, and they are also being addressed.
Stern is not Sony. They are not Ford. They are a SMALL Manufacturing company, making machines in the USA for a VERY niche market. They care about their products. They care about their customers. There are infinite examples of this, it's ridiculous to suggest otherwise.
BM66 was a very expensive pinball machine, eh guys??! Did anybody notice that?! I saw it mentioned here. Did the extra money Stern took in on that title somehow all become profit?! Did Stern have ZERO expenses while they sold that machine??! WTF are you guys on about?! The dime-store financial analysis that goes on here is mind blowing. Now somebody is saying they made a change to save $15/playfield. Likely something pulled right out of the poster's arse, but then it starts getting repeated on here as if it's gospel.
The piling on, and ill will that gets directed towards Stern is really baffling to me.
It strikes me that there are a whole bunch of dudes who spend WAY TOO MUCH time on here revelling in the ability to spew negative nonsense about things they are BARELY informed of.
Stern announces Aerosmith. It's a race to Pinside to make the snarkiest post about how shitty it is. It's a rehash, code sucks, QC will blow, Cash Grab, etc etc.
I wish that the world's biggest site dedicated to the hobby I enjoy the most wasn't such a cesspool of whinging and drama.
Stern are not the evil empire ruining Pinball for the masses. They are the ONLY real player in the game. JJP is making headway, and I've purchased BOTH the machines they've produced. Spooky is AWESOME, and I've purchased 2 of the 3 pins they've produced. My WOZ had tons of issues. I was chasing problems with it from day one. JJP was great about working with me, sending me the parts I needed, and eventually the problems got sorted. Hobbit has been no cake walk either. Those Beast Mechs have been a disaster. The fix is no walk in the park either. It's a MAJOR install that's not for the faint of heart by any stretch. Even after installation, I still have lots of issues with the mechs... That's pinball Baby! Not trashing JJP, just saying EVERYBODY has issues. Also, luckily, outside of JPOP and SkitB, the issues are being dealt with. Stern is the only company cranking out great titles year after year. Everybody likes different titles, and different eras. I love my Fathom, and my Centaur, also my Fast Draw... but in my opinion MET, ACDC, and TWD are simply THE BEST pinball machines ever made. My opinion... others certainly disagree.
I will continue to support Stern because they manufacture pinball machines. I like to purchase, and play pinball machines. Stern has made ALL of my favourite pinball machines. They have been excellent with me from a customer service standpoint since I picked up my first NIB Stern (LOTR) in 2004.
Looking for defects with a magnifying glass, and a bright light is just OCD insanity. You're buying commercial vending equipment. Its a game. You're meant to play it. It's NOT supposed to be a museum piece.
It's as if a bunch of us got SUPER in to lawn tractors, and started collecting them and displaying them in our living rooms. Then we start complaining to John Deer when the grease from the blade deck leaks on the carpet. "I PAID 15K for this thing, and I expect perfection!!!!"
I think if you expect perfection, you might want to collect Dyson fans, and Vacuums instead of pinball machines.
I hope that everybody who has serious playfield issues will be looked after.
I wish you all the best, but most of all I wish you some perspective.
As I've said before... This is supposed to be fun, people.

Can you post cliff notes? No way I want to read through all that whining by a guy without skin in the game and not affected.

Thanks for your post, now- give your keyboard a rest.

-5
#177 7 years ago
Quoted from MapleSyrup:

Classy, Dude. How do I NOT have skin in the game??!! I own a GBle, TWDle, METpre, STle, and I have a BM66SLE on the way... how is that NOT having skin in the game??!! Because I'm not a whiner, I don't have "skin in the game"... Lame.

No skin in the game as you don't have a playfield that's fucked up like mine. You can't relate, sorry.

14
#203 7 years ago

Getting close to the goal on the petition

I know there are people upset that someone like myself is putting Stern on blast. Maybe you also don't know I have been told for months my PF would be replaced, even by Gary Stern himself. I was told various months, and now no one responds to me- and Stern doesn't respond to my distributor.

If you can tell me I am in the wrong or to "be patient" thats fine. It's easy to sit back when you are not in my position.

The world is filled with people who sit back, get bent over, and say "oh well". You are not talking to one of those people.

My motivation here is to make Stern do what is right for not only myself, but everyone else who has purchased defective products by Stern and also have been ignored. Do not just base everything off this thread; look at the comments on the Petition page- there are so many people who need replacement PF's and are being ignored now. Many of those people say they do not want to purchase products from Stern anymore.

If you are upset people are upset at Stern, please- put yourself in their shoes. Coming into this thread and getting upset that I am upset is counterproductive and not helpful to the other side of the pinball community who have purchased defective products by Stern. I don't care if you think being patient will work out in the end, because so far, that does not seem to be the case.

Stern needs to see we demand better communication and customer service, especially if they fail at delivering a quality product. Stern can still make this right and make an official public acknowledgement of the PF replacement program and set expectations. Since they are choosing to keep us in the dark and ignore both customers and distributors inquiries, something like this must be done.

When the petition hits 100 signatures, those signatures and comments will be forwarded along with a letter to Gary Stern and Patrick Powers, and I will also file a complaint with the Illinois Attorney General.

Once that is done, I will update everyone accordingly. To those who have signed the petition, thank you for your support- and thank you on behalf of other people who have purchased defective products by Stern.

#206 7 years ago
Quoted from hoby1:

Ever hear the saying..... you get further with honey than vinegar

No I haven't

Because the saying is "You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar"

lol

#214 7 years ago
Quoted from Dooskie:

Has anyone contacted the Better Business Bureau? How about the state Attorney General? Make someone at The Consumerist aware. Hell, make a contact at McClatchy or the New York Times. News like this sells more papers and gets more clicks on their website.
I'm 100% serious. Get some attention from outside of the pinball community. General business advocates. As is mentioned several times on this thread, the pinball community is a small, close-knit group. Expand the issues beyond that group. No company wants negative attention coming at them from all directions.

Yes there are many options! But getting certain entities involved could actually harm the legal part of things. Attorney General and BBB are all great, but none will force them make it right. Those are just the prerequisites for any type of legal proceedings, if it goes that far once the complaints are filed.

#222 7 years ago
Quoted from eggbert52:

So, I didn't want to post in threads like this because I believe the way to go about things is contact Stern directly and go from there. On December 26th I contacted Gary Stern directly and let him know of my situation of my GBLE ghosting. To my surprise, he replied to my email like 10 minutes later and told me that he would personally take care of it. In addition, he included his cell phone number and asked me to please enjoy the rest of my holiday. My distributor is also involved and I am confident I will receive something in return to correct my situation.
I'm not saying what percentage, but I feel like many on here just come here to complain rather than get off of their duffs to write a well thought out email to rectify their situation. I did not come forward a month ago because I assumed that was the case.
Anyway, I'll let you know of my results but in the meantime, be wary of threads like this and if you want results quickly by all means DO NOT sign this stupid petition.

Right on.

You do know I did the same thing back in August right? Got the call and cell phone from Gary too.

You have only waited a week- you'll see- after being patient almost 6 months you won't be happy either.

#224 7 years ago
Quoted from KornFreak28:

Thinking about buying a Met Pro.
Why is it recommended to use a credit card? Thanks!

So you can do a chargeback if you get a defective playfield - I recommend using an American Express, they are the best at charge backs

#234 7 years ago
Quoted from hoby1:

Never burn bridges

+2

Stern has burned a lot of bridges with their customers, just read the comments on the petition page and here on pinside. Good advice!

#249 7 years ago
Quoted from hoby1:

Here's the other issue.
I'm sure you could sell you game for full purchase price new. 7k
I don't think Sterns going to be simpathetic because you can't get 9 grand for it now
Like I said I feel you definitely deserve one but going about it on a tangent rant talking about sueing, signing petitions, constant phone calls will get you no where. If they said you were on the list I would have taken it for just that. The process only started weeks ago.
Your choice but personally I think you caused yourself a lot more grief
No right or wrong way but I know I have had positive results with patience and professionalism

You don't seem to know that this has been going on for months. Literally almost 6 months ago I was told this would be resolved.. that's not weeks. That's half of a year.

You have stated your point, and we get what your thoughts are on this matter. Why keep posting in this thread? You are clearly are not thinking in the best interest of customers who spent their hard earned money and got defective products MONTHS ago.

Thanks for your input here though, and keeping the thread bumped up for more awareness.

#253 7 years ago
Quoted from hoby1:

They only started replacing playfields weeks ago. You can't start from the time you notified them. They Churchill playfields were only started being produced again in October
I am thinking in the best interest of customers that's what you don't get.
The problem is it's just not the answer you want to hear

Apparently you have more information then what Stern has given me or my distributor- just to think- had me and everyone else that had problems only contacted hoby1 here on Pinside, we would have known everything would be ok! Thanks!

#270 7 years ago
Quoted from OLDPINGUY:

I think you are fine, its a perspective.
In a charged thread and situation like this, often it plows ahead with a direction and purpose not to be swayed.
Often times, its all emotions, and as shown, empathy is possible, but rejected if it isnt towing the line, or coming from one in a similar situation.
Bottom line, this may get KPG a result faster, or slower....we will wait and see.
Personally, I believe it will result in a faster "answer", but a slower "result".
I truly hope not, for his and others sake.

I'm past the point of caring when my playfield will get replaced now. I've been waiting almost 6 months.. who knows had I kept waiting how much longer it would be?

When I decided to do this I knew I would stir the pot and piss off the guys at Stern. I know it could cause a vendetta against me for doing so.

It's all good. I plan on just sitting on my GBLE until it gets resolved. If Stern is going to pull that crap and put me at the end of the line so be it- but I'll see to it that their laziness to communicate with customers and set up a proper replacement program will cost them more work in the end.

The sad thing is they know about this petition and still choose to remain silent. They literally don't give a shit about all of the customers affected by this.

The end result is obviously a new PF, but really it is to gain confidence back to actually buy more Stern products as I don't trust them anymore. I'd love to buy Aerosmith right now, sad thing is if I give them more of my money and I get a game with a bad PF, then now I have two jacked up machines. How stupid would I be to give them more of my money when they still haven't made it right with my GBLE?

#272 7 years ago

12 more signatures needed! Almost there!

After that, I'll provide detailed updates on what is happening next to those that have signed the petition. Once I have hit 100, I won't post much detail here on the forum. I just need those signatures for the next steps.

Thank you everyone who has signed so far

#278 7 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

At this point, it may just be you that they don't give a shit about Kpg.
Like you said, all you can do now is wait it out, at the end of the line. Play your pinball machine, the balls still roll fine on the existing PF.
The current condition has zero impact on playing the actual game itself. You want to sell it? Just gotta wait it out.
Liike I said, on the bright side, you get a brand new PF at some point to swap out.

Go read the comments on the petition... almost a hundred people that have signed it who haven't heard shit from Stern, and only two people claiming to get a PF replacement.

I know you are here defending Stern, and that's fine- but do you really think they will get away with this? If you do, then you are anti-consumer laws and that's unfortunate man.

#282 7 years ago
Quoted from cliff_clavin:

those advocating patience should ask themselves how they would feel if they were stuck with a pin that they couldn't sell....6 months is long enough to replace the pf....part of the issue is that there is no guarantee that the affected owners will even receive a new pf....
also, the smudging of the date and using an older pf for a replacement is indefensible....that is beyond sleazy...kind of shocking truthfully....

Seriously, what they did for phbooms was pathetic. Such a shady move for a company to pull on a customer.

#286 7 years ago

10 signatures away from the goal. Almost there

#295 7 years ago
Quoted from kermit24:

Stern did communicate to KPG. kpg did they confirm you are in the swap program in writing? Really isn't the petition is about how long it is taking? Or do you believe they are refusing to swap your playfield after they said they would?

Stern initially communicated to me in July, when I reported the problem after I received my GBLE. I made a complaint with Trent, then they initially took 1.5 weeks to reply to him.

I took it upon myself to contact Stern directly via phone call and email, and no response for a week as well.

That's when I started posting my pics of my game here on Pinside like others, because no one at Stern was acknowledging the issue.

Finally, due to my posting and raising a scene here on Pinside in August, that's when Gary called me personally to tell me I'm on a "program" that Trent will tell me more about soon, and to "turn the heat down online" about how I'm going about it, and to wait for more info by Trent and to stay in contact with him.

Every month or so I would reach out to trent to get status- his answer "haven't heard anything". This is still his answer.

Literally, since Gary's phone call 6 months ago- nothing. No additional details of the program, nothing. Direct emails to Gary and Patrick powers only resulted in an email a month later stating "the program has been pushed back".

Good to know 2 people got playfields at least

But I hope you can see why I took it to this next level- had stern simple replied to my emails and trent's emails this wouldn't be happening - I am simply doing this because THEY REFUSE TO COMMUNICATE BACK TO ME OR TRENT. It's not like they respond to us and tell us to be patient- no, they literally decide to ignore both me AND my distributor- which as you can read here is happening to not just me, but dozens of others.

Unacceptable.

So before you jump on my case and tell me to be more patient, or I'm going about this the wrong way- I hope this post puts it into more perspective.

PS- Illinois attorney general complaint was filed yesterday, with public proof others are affected too which will make the complaint even bigger. That's the first step before the next step- that next step will not be communicated here on Pinside, only to those who have signed the petition, as the attorney who will be handling this has advised me not to post on this publicly on the matter once he takes it over. I'll just need more info from everyone affected so I can have him reach out to everyone. But that's all I can say.

#305 7 years ago

Sorry for a lack of replies in the past couple days!

A little background regarding this crazy week on my end.

Since Tues I have been sick in bed battling the flu and took time from working, had 102-103* fever and found out Friday afternoon I have "walking pheunomia" with a small amount of fluid in my lungs.. all good, just still under the weather obviously. I still woke up Saturday morning, washed the McLaren, and took her for a drive around PCH because it has been the first sunny day in a week here in SoCal. Clouds, Rain, being sick, and being locked indoors does not bid well for a native Southern Californian!

Anyway,

I will be providing some additional information on what is happening that I feel will motivate Stern for a public acknowledgment within the next week. I am confident there will be a positive official response, as when I personally talked to Gary Stern he seemed like a stand up guy and truly wants to do the right thing. Unfortunately, I feel he just is having a difficult time doing that in a way that makes us customers feel that is really the case.

I'll make a separate post in the next day or two and you will see what I mean. If there is a non-response, that would mean having to push forward with the next plan, which I truly am trying to avoid if at all possible, because I still feel Stern has good internations- they just need to make it official and let us customers know what is going on.

Until then, I'm going to enjoy some family time in this perfect weather. I felt I was getting a bit hysterical being sick and in bed for so long.

We'll talk soon

PS- I knew Iceman wouldn't take my bet

#307 7 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

You won't take my bet. Let's go

No disrespect, but I made $37,450 in charitable donations last year between a private school and a school that deals with kids who have special needs- I don't think we need to go that route here. I found it a bit strange we went from a simple bet to some convoluted and weird charitable thing over pinball playfields. This isn't the place for that, sorry. I handle those types of things personally, as I not only donate money but a lot of my time to charity. If you have a specific charity in mind that you know needs financial assistance, by all means, hit me up privately and we can talk. I'd love to hear the background and I'd be willing to consider anything for this years charity budget. Thanks Ice.

16
#313 7 years ago

Stern finally contacted Trent back this morning for an update.

He said Stern is still having problems getting new good playfields in, and they have not fully solved the playfield issue yet. This makes sense and does explain the delays, but this has been better communication they have given him in the past.

He said they are awaiting new playfields. I wonder what they are doing about BM66 and Aerosmith playfields then, if they are still having issues with GB playfields?

Either way, I consider this to be a positive development in the right direction.

-1
#317 7 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

That's right. The defective PF clear issues apparently only affect a very small % of them
Good update, carry on.
Can't even get 100 people to sign a petition. That says it all right there

Don't be salty Iceman, you are better and more professional then that.

Assuming 100 people bought 1 defective Stern product, that's potentially $800,000 in defective merchandise. Assuming those people have bought a minimum of 3 Stern products in the past and during the time they are in the hobby, that amounts to customers providing millions of dollars in revenue to Stern who are very pissed at them right now. That is nothing to laugh at.

#336 7 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

F it, i can't login or reset password. Too much of my time wasted on this anyhow.

I know dude.. I have an excuse for wasting my time on this... to accelerate the process of getting my defective parts replaced, not only for me and for others.. that's the only way I can justify blowing this energy and time posting on Pinside. I don't know how you do it Iceman, but I applaud the efforts!

#384 7 years ago

Please see my post regarding my open letter to Gary Stern of Stern Pinball Inc., re: Defective Playfields here:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/open-letter-to-gary-stern-re-defective-playfields#post-3547511

10
#483 7 years ago
Quoted from KornFreak28:

I just want to know what happenned with KPG? Is he done with his efforts to help ALL people affected by this? Did he throw the towel as soon as he got good news regarding his machine? I don't see him posting anymore.....

Sorry I was gone all weekend!! 70MileSaturday supercar rally here in SoCal, and Jeep off-roading today in the snow in Big Bear. I love Pinside and all, but I also have a few hobbies that take up some time.

You better believe I'm moving forward with some options. The petition speaks for itself, my letter asking for Stern to publicly acknowledge the playfield defects and also state the status of the "Replacement Program" and I'll be sending the letter itself via FedEx signature required deliver to Gary himself.

There are other things in the process of which will be taken care of from that point from another party.

I got an email from that other party and he's very enthusiastic with the responses here and is confident this is something of interest and that's definitely good news.

My letter, petition, and bitching here was honestly just to show certain parties who are smarter than me that there's a lot of potential customers who were affected. So most definitely my efforts here are still on going.

Did Iceman's constant Stern cheerleading piss me off? Sure. But I get it, he's a guy that hasn't bought defective merchandise from Stern so he doesn't have a clue of what it's like to be in the position of me and the dozens of other people who are in this position.

Should Jody Dankburg's time and effort using his JY64 alias be used in a positive way, to say post something on Facebook and the Stern website addressing this, especially on BM66 machines now?

Will Iceman admit he has a problem publicly if he gets a defective BM66, since he said he would only handle it privately? And the 4-5 other critics here talking shit on my efforts?

Will Stern actually buy back my GBLE or are they going to back out of the deal?

Why did ZombiYeti come in here just to post how he is attracted to Jody Dankberg and made everything uncomfortable for a couple of pages of posts?

Questions... lots of them lol

11
#523 7 years ago
Quoted from JY64:

You can make all the excuses you like but a heavy routed game after one year should have no play field wear. This pic by the Pinside thread time line is after six weeks. The playfield wear on the bat is not acceptable either dimples yes playfield wear no

I love how you keep posting pics of a JJP machine that has a prototype playfield, likely on route just beta testing. Stern has shipped BM66 already with code that's so bare and empty it's laughable. What company these days ships a consumer electronics product that is only about 10% complete?

Since you love posting these pics, tell me, how much money is the customer out who owns this machine?

That's right, $0

Because nobody fookin paid for this game! It's a JJP sample! They are testing the games the right way, Stern just puts out an ad on the internet and doesn't even show gameplay video until people have already started receiving them. YOU, the customer, are the beta tester.

15
#532 7 years ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Met pro in home use after 100 or so plays...... that is just 2 examples ,there are plenty more out there . I saw many production met with this issue. Also look at sm and the wear it gets in some cases. This type of magnet in the right conditions without mylar around it will get wear . A simple piece of mylar on the dialed in wld have stopped that wear most likely....that particular magnet gets a ton of action and is very active and is y jjp will learn from this and ajusted accordingly. They sld probably make it a under playfield magnet like the other 4? It all depends what they wanna do with it in gameplay.

But does it still "Play Fine" ? YES- so who cares! Buy an extra playfield, Stern is going to sell more pins than ever in 2017! -Iceman

Jody Dankburg is handsome and I want to spoon him -ZombiYeti

#559 7 years ago

We can all debate if Redknight's playfield should/or shouldnt be replaced under the "Replacement Program" .. a program in which none of us truly understand or know the criteria of such "Program". All we know is 1-2 people have had replacements, and one other person got another defective PF.

All Redknight's situation proves is once again, Stern NEEDS to publicly address this somehow. Post a page on their webpage called "Playfield Replacement Program" and state all the information and requirements for the program, and have an online submission program that someone like Jody could administrate. I know it might take away from his next campaign, another SuperLE application and website campaign- but this needs to be officially addressed by Stern at this point.

There are way too many doubts, speculation, opinions, etc- I don't give a f**k if you THINK RedKnight's playfield should or shouldn't be replaced - he thinks it should.. its his money, not yours right? This isn't a $300 tablet or $300 Xbox... its a $7-8,000 product! People who have bought these machines that are deteriorating faster then other NIB Stern's with the same amount of plays have every right to be unhappy and ask for remediation.

Stern must set official guidelines and set expectations and elaborate on this "Program" that for months has been discussed, but never officially launched. THATS ALL WE ASK, MR GARY STERN. Publicly make an official statement via social media and/or your website- lets see the details!

Gary/Jody/Patrick Powers: Please use this page as a template for what Stern should do to make it right: https://www.apple.com/support/macbookpro-videoissues/

If you are going to copy Ford's FordGT application program for a $15K SuperLE pinball machine, surely you can copy Apple's efforts to make it right with customers who were sold defective products!

#565 7 years ago
Quoted from Redknight87:

Everyone has a right to their opinion on if mine should be replaced or not. Like you said bottom line is that I feel as though it should. I am the one that spent the money on a product that clearly has issues.

This was exactly my point.

It is true everyone has their own opinions, but I always find it funny the people who have never been affected by this problem have an opinion of "who cares, its not bad, whatever, stern is awesome".

My opinion is of COURSE it should be replaced.

Anyone saying it shouldn't be replaced probably would pass on it if in the market for a GB. Right? Or at least try to haggle a lower price because of the defects.. every single damn critic in here would haggle the price for a playfield w/ ghosting and/or chipping and they know it too.

Iceman, would you buy a playfield at normal market value that has ghosting and/or chipping?
Kermit, would you buy a playfield at normal market value that has ghosting and/or chipping?
Pipes, would you buy a playfield at normal market value that has ghosting and/or chipping?
JY64, I dont care what you think
RobT, would you buy a playfield at normal market value that has ghosting and/or chipping?

I am going to assume the answer to the above questions are "No"

#567 7 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Sorry Redknight but I agree with Robt
The ghosting is almost non existent
Yes I would gladly pay 100% for that pin. Mine is very similar to yours
Have fun playing it. Then if it does develop into something worse you can monitor it and address then
I wouldn't get caught up in the same handful of people promoting hysteria
But then again it's your pin and even though it's not even in the same universe as to what Kpg dealt with, do whatever makes you happy
In the meantime, enjoy a great pin!

Hey dude how is your BM66 LE out of the box so far? I hope you don't have to go through this shit !

#570 7 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Sorry Redknight but I agree with Robt
The ghosting is almost non existent
Yes I would gladly pay 100% for that pin. Mine is very similar to yours
Have fun playing it. Then if it does develop into something worse you can monitor it and address then
I wouldn't get caught up in the same handful of people promoting hysteria
But then again it's your pin and even though it's not even in the same universe as to what Kpg dealt with, do whatever makes you happy
In the meantime, enjoy a great pin!

Well, we all know there's at least one guy out there in the hobby willing to pay 100% for a machine with a bad playfield!

What a nice charitable thing to do brother!

#572 7 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

If there is an issue, I'll report it and get it resolved. No big deal

You should tell everyone else your secret.. as many people reported their issues up to 6 months ago and nothing is being resolved. You must have a close connection w/ Stern

#574 7 years ago
Quoted from pipes:

Granted, it may get worse....no one knows for certain....but at this point, IMO, contacting Stern is a waste of time for all involved.

Im cool with opinions and always expect them, since I always give them myself

Your last sentence describes the problem exactly. That's pathetic. But somehow Iceman says he has the secret to get that to work.. he must have "connections"

#575 7 years ago

I am starting to think Iceman is only kissing Stern's ass in this whole thread because he wants to be on their good side if his BM66LE arrives with a shit playfield and is worried they won't do anything if he isn't backing them up.

Hell, maybe even ZombiYeti has a bad playfield and was hitting on Jody to speed up his own personal replacement PF?

Smart strategy indeed.. !

#577 7 years ago
Quoted from Redknight87:

I appreciate your opinion. That is the reason I posted. I wanted to hear what others thought about the situation. I can feel one way, others may feel differently. That's fine with me.

LOL. I hope his arrives perfect.

I hope so too. As much shit the guy gives me, I wouldn't wish anyone bad luck and buying a POS product.

#582 7 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Wait until the JJP DI crowd starts selling those $9k plus pins on the secondary market for $7500! Gonna happen with a perfect PF
Oh the horror and outrage!!!!

Sadly, you are right.. no way i'll pay full price for that machine.. but for $7500! Sold! That would be the most i'd be willing to pay for one, that's for sure.

#586 7 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

If I were in the market for a GB I would most definitely consider buying his pin. I don't see anything on his pin that would prevent me from enjoying it, or how it plays. Heck, if it weren't for his red circles I would have had to look pretty hard to see what he was complaining about in half those pictures. We are not talking about some HEP restoration here where near perfection is to be expected. I admit, though, that I would probably want to wait a bit longer to see if any of it got worse since there are a lot of posts indicating that ghosting can get worse over time.
"Normal market value" on GB is already going to be lower just because of all the negative publicity surrounding the pin...

Would you pay the same price for a GB with a non-blemished playfield as you would his pin?

#588 7 years ago
Quoted from pipes:

Okay, pathetic is a strong word....harsh maybe. Reading it back, it may have been harsh. It's probably a good thing that they have the complaint on file in case it does get worse. I don't know what it is but the more you disagree with me, the more I like you as a person. Friends?

Haha dude.. likewise! I can be friends with people whose opinions differ than mine, in fact I get along with personalities like that much better. I don't like people who just simply agree with me to be on my good side. State your opinion and reasons and lets talk it out. One of my best friends growing up was someone who I got into a huge fight with.. we literally almost broke eachothers jaws and really beat the shit out of each other. After we hugged it out and became best friends and gained a lot of respect. A true brotherhood.. crazy.. but now that we arent in school, I appreciate the more alpha-type personalities that have no problem speaking their mind and giving me some shit. That's why I know Iceman and I would get along in person, and probably you too. Jody Dankburg? Well.. he could hold my beer while I play some pinball. lol

#590 7 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

I already said that I would obviously prefer the best looking pin in the best condition that I could find. So would I pay a little more for a "non-blemished" PF? Sure, but I'm talking something small like a hundred bucks maybe. Assuming the issues on his pin don't get any worse, I don't see them as anything that would prevent me from enjoying the pin. If I went to his house and played that pin at a party, there is no way I would have noticed any of those "blemishes."
I'll repeat what I said earlier. There will be differences in one PF to the next. That does not mean that one that has a (negative) variation will be entitled to replacement by the manufacturer.
The implied warranty of merchantability would apply here, and nothing on his PF indicates to me that there is a breach of that implied warranty.

That's pretty awesome. I guess I am very anal as a collector.. I want everything to be perfect. I'd never buy a machine with any ghosting or chipping if its so new- imagine what it will look like in a few years? A chip is a chip.. and it only gets worse and I just can't accept that unless its a 90's B/W where it was on route. Part of this hobby is the collect-ability of things and maintaining them to keep them as perfect as possible, for reasons because of keeping their value and admiring perfect condition pins. Just like I do with everything else I collect and own.

Even my TZ is currently being fully disassembled and restored.. gutted, and complete cabinet repair/paint/powdercoat/etc etc. If a game is brand new, it should be BETTER than a HEP restore job.. because its brand new.

#596 7 years ago

So, a brand new $8,000 machine - right from the factory floor - brand new playfield, cabinet, boards, lights, wiring, hardware etc is not expected to be as nice as a HEP restore?

Please Rob do tell me what HEP could possibly do better than build a game with brand new parts right from the get go? I am kind of confused.. brand new is brand new. A restore is a restore.

#601 7 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

That's correct.
I'm surprised that you don't know this, but I guess you are still pretty new to the hobby.

Spend some time reading the HEP threads, or some of the threads by other great restorers such as McCune. Lots of improvements over what you would have got even from a NIB B/W pin.

Been playing pinball since I was a kid, only about 1.5years ago since I started collecting them so you are right. Never seen a HEP pin in person.

Interesting - I know they are the best in the biz, but what does HEP to a playfield that should be expected to be better than a brand new playfield? More clear coat? What is he doing that Stern hasn't figured out as far as playfield defects?

14
#602 7 years ago

Just got an email from Trent stating that Stern sent him an email that "all playfields are expected to be replaced by Feb". Brand new news today. Perhaps this is their way of responding to my letter, with a firm ETA?!? If so.. that's definitely good news.

#608 7 years ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

That's a week away, and considering they rejected redknights playfield, I'm guessing they only have a handful of 'approved' playfield replacements to respond to

haha seriously.. you are probably right!

#614 7 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

No way.
When HEP or I remanufacture a game, it's 200% (maybe 300% for HEP) better than a factory machine.

Thats awesome to know. What do you and HEP do to playfields to prevent ghosting and chipping that Stern should be doing then? Different clear coat? Maybe double hard coats and letting them cure for a while?

#618 7 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Picture HEP being the auto shop that takes your orange-peel BMW factory paint, and turns it into a show car.
-
BMW can't take each $90,000 M5 and give it a good 5 day paint job, so you have to take your new car in to a competent shop and let them perfect it.
The factory orange-peel paint is sanded flat, re-cleared (depending on how deep the orange peel is), and then polished to a mirror finish.
The plastic bumpers are re-cleared and polished.
The mirrors are plastic trim are tru-blacked.
After a few days of labor, you get a panty dropper - but it sure did not come from the factory that way.

Damn.. didn't realize that.. makes total sense when you explain it that way. Now I want a HEP pin! lol.

#622 7 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

I would have linked you to some of Chris Hutchins youtube videos that showed his process, including a couple that showed exactly what he does to a reproduction PF from Mirco. In fact, one of the videos that he posted he was actually working on the Mirco MB playfield that I sent him as part of the MB restoration that I was having Jim McCune do. Unfortunately Chris takes his videos down after a certain amount of time so it's no longer available.
Vid said it well!
Sometimes a picture (video) is worth a thousand words. This is my MB that McCune restored and HEP did the PF.
You gotta get over here to play it!
» YouTube video

Holy hell dude !!! That is amazing. Please sell it to me.. now that I'm getting my GBLE money back I want to buy a collector quality B/W game. I need to come play that thing sometime! You are right.. WAY better then NIB.. I stand corrected!!

In fact, this whole playfield debacle made me not want to buy any Sterns.. so I bought an MMR and a TZ that I'm fully restoring instead. My GBLE money will go to another classic instead too.. I'm only interested in very nice quality machines now, and no more Stern NIB lotto plays and bare bones code like what they pulled with BM66

#649 7 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Why not play the F out of it and then send the PF out to be redone by the masters 50k plays later, or whenever?
That's what I'm doing, thus I'm worried about what happens in the meantime
Pinball is fun and enjoyable. Not gonna ruin my experience with crapola

If I truly liked the game I would have gone through that possibly.. but... I have heard "Who brought the Dog" so many times I wont miss the machine. It's too bad, as the machine/artwork/toys/etc look great.. but the code just does not have the longevity of a long term keeper to me.

That, plus the playfield problems, was a real disappointment as I waited a year to get my GBLE. It is a dream theme to me, but unfortunately there are so many better and more fun games out there. Most of which are 20+ years old and have better playfields on them

-1
#659 7 years ago
Quoted from kvan99:

It's not Meh but it certainly missed the mark. The game could have been great but the design flaws are all too real to ignore.

I know man. It had so much potential.. at the end of the day, the theme misses the mark and does not feel like the GB movie itself at all. A lot of potential to have used better call outs, better modes and objectives, better sound effects, etc. The design is clunky in the sense of air balls and the flipper gap which makes it unnecessarily cheap when it comes to drains. The Slimer mechanism is unreliable.. in fact, mine doesn't register hits at all and I've given up on adjusting it because it stops working after a couple dozen games again.

My biggest complaint, besides the garbage playfield, is the code. It just seems it was so slapped together and rushed. Dwight is better than what is on GB. There are no wizard modes, only glorified multiballs. No depth whatsoever. Just lazy modes that you shoot the flashing lights and work your way up the ladders that gets old after a couple months.

We came we saw we kicked its ass mode is pathetic.. it's literally a multiball that should have been a proper wizard mode.

I definitely won't be buying another pin with Dwight on code again, and if I did, it will be after a couple years of him showing he has the motivation to code a game properly and to completion... because GB is just not something that he should be proud of, sorry. I know he's capable of better.

#672 7 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Everybody don't like the same things so I understand. It just doesn't do it for you for whatever reason. I'm kinda that way with MET and most any music pin for that matter except maybe AC DC.

How long have you owned it for?

I'll tell you, for 3 months straight I loved it.. put hundreds of plays on it between my wife and I. I had a lot of fun playing it, but I kept thinking how much better I'd love it when the code matures. Then I saw the code wasn't maturing, but causing frustrating bugs - then another update would fix those bugs and introduce more.

Once I realized that the code that shipped on it was pretty much done and that was that, I started to realize just how shallow of a game it is and it wore off very quickly after that. Well, that and the fact the dumbass Slimer mech stopped working half the time.

But really, is a killer game - but the longevity of the code is very weak which loses its luster quicker than other games. IMO of course!

#720 7 years ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

KPG sold his STLE like a day after I sold it to him lol. And this was long after the code update. I LOVE STLE, and miss it dearly, but the code is not for everyone even as it stands and I get that - STLE code is kind of awkward in that it has no sense of vast progression, but I still love it.
Same goes for GB code in a different sense, it's not for everyone. I've played pinball with KPG, he knows what he likes and dislikes about pinball and he knows how great code can develop longevity in a pinball lineup. He's had Metallica & TWD for a long time and has MMR + TZ. He knows how important great code is for a home use environment.
Me myself, I don't hate GB, I just don't like it enough to add it to my collection, even if it was for a few months.

No offense to Dwight, I blame stern. But, look at dwights coding history since coming back to stern. He did one major update, with a few tweaks, to save STLE; but nothing after cause stern didn't allocate him more time which is a shame because from what I understand, it's one of their best sellers in the last 5 years, even better than AC/DC from what I understand. Then, he abandoned GOT just as it was getting good and he even said it needs more choreography, more sound queues, and more tweaks which he was about to do until stern again yanked him off and put him on GB. And GB has done very well code wise, just as STLE and GOT did, but just like those other two games it never got the X factor polish update to bring it to the next level which is why Lyman & Keith are The best in the biz.
So yea, speculating this is what you get with GB code, is pretty darn accurate from KPG IMO based on sterns history and trends.

Exactly man. STLE is a fine example of loving the layout, theme, and overall look of the machine- but the code just didn't give me the "one more game" feeling. Playing through the modes felt like a grind with no satisfaction.. theres no way to hit the stage 2 or 3 wizard modes at my skill level, so grinding away hoping for the 1st one got very old. Also, having to hit the away team shots to start a new mode was frustrating at times.

STLE's layout was perfect to me. That 3rd flipper warp ramp shot never got old. The speed and combos from the ramps were great.. the spinner shot and combo's from it were great. The code did it in.

Surprisingly, that's how I feel about GB. I actually like the layout.. the right ramp could be improved on, and of course airball issues- and I put a hanging center post mod between the flippers which fixed that too. Dwight's style code simply does not do it for me.

Also, my buddy had just bought a GOT LE.. sold it already after a couple months and bought a TAF instead. GOT's code just did not click for us. Now TAF? Such a better game vs any recent Stern's IMO. All this playfield thing did was push me away from NIB's and back to 90's B/W games. I've spent $15K on B/W games in the past couple months and might even be buying a high end MB if RobT will let me LOL... that's all money that would have went to a distro for a NIB Stern.. but instead it went to older games in the private market.

I'm probably going to sell my MET and TWD just in spite of the fact I no longer want own Stern's any more.. and just get pristine collector quality B/W pins. I just have a bitter taste in my mouth after all this.

So far, the buyback of GBLE is lagging along too.. was supposed to have details on Monday.. here it is Friday, nothing yet. Not surprised one bit.

#722 7 years ago

There's really no reason to make this a JJP vs Stern argument. JJP was a brand new company with a new pin that had just started shipping. They had some issues as they were inexperienced with manufacturing pinball machines. How long have they been in business now? 4-5 years? Are there any ghosting and/or chipping playfield issues? There is currently no playfield quality issues happening right now like Stern. They fixed the problem, and also acknowledged it - and they have moved on.

Stern has been in business for 30+ years, they have long term pinball manufacturing workers, techs, programmers, and executives running the show. They have had way too many issues and have tried to unsuccessfully sweep these issues under the rug.

Stern is essentially the GM of pinball machines and JJP is a boutique company like Ariel and Caterham. They will also be held to a higher standard since they are the big dogs of pinball w/ the most experience in both amount of tiles and amount of annual produced pinball machines.

No one is expecting Stern to never have issues. That's not the problem. The problem plain and simple is how they are mis-handling the entire problem and remaining silent. They ask for dumb ass "video applications" to buy a $15K pin w/ bare ass code, but stay silent and let those who bought garbage machines sit and wait and hope they make good on their promise. It's a slap to the face. Anyway, whatever.

There will be opinions on each side of the coin, but reality is JJP has absolutely ZERO current quality issues right now compared to Stern.

#725 7 years ago
Quoted from Eskaybee:

Right on man! If you haven't experienced the greatNess of BW games such as TAF, MB, AFM, MM, TZ, etc.... go for it! Classics are a classic for a reason. Good luck prying robs MB off his hands, he may trade it for your jeep though
I always told you to get GOT PRO not LE; it's night and day. Code was built around the pro. But at least I gave you guys a tour of all the wizard modes in our $1 game night before he sold it lol I love GOT rules, but just like a lot of sterns - it never got the code polish it needs and still has bugs and missing call outs/sound queues I mean, you have one of the most dynamic scoring pins in history, currently in production, with some of the biggest jackpot opportunities ever to be had of any pin; you'd think they'd add some effects and sounds to those jackpots.

That's the thing - you totally killed his GOT LE that night - and I think we both realized we suck too much to progress that far into the game. You are also right its missing key sound queues and sounds to the big jackpots, and that makes a huge difference in making a certain shot that much more rewarding. Like watching an action movie with the sound barely turned up. It is a big thing for sure. I know the code on GOT is probably the best Dwight has done, but its so unfortunate he was pulled off it before finishing it the way he talked about.

I had told my buddy about getting the Pro version, and we are totally in agreement the Pro would have been better than the LE. Why? The upper playfield is not fun, and covers up way too many of the shots. I believe if he had bought the Pro, he may not have sold it so quickly. Shooting the ball a few inches up into the "unknown" is lame. That game did not need an upper playfield and you were 1000% correct recommending the Pro version instead!!

PS- we bought our Arcade Expo 3.0 tickets for Friday March 17th - only $22 on Goldstar per ticket right now. You and Rob should go!

#731 7 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Stick to games like Scared Stiff, ToTAN, ToM, etc.. clearly you get 'frustrated' by games that don't just lay out all the prizes for you.
You should still have had plenty of objective to go for in ST with Kobayashi Maru and the medals.. without needing to play the strategies for the level 3 awards, etc.

Those objectives were not fun. I love the deep code of MET and TWD, and code like MM, TZ, TAF. Are those games considered "laying out the prize"?

I just want a really fun game. STLE's shots were fun but I didn't find the code and objectives fun. Everyone has their preference you know.

#732 7 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

So Kpg doesn't want to make this about Stern versus JJP and then went ahead and did it
Didn't you know James, it's all roses in JJP Lala land
Some of you guys can't seriously believe some of the stuff you throw out there!
Let's see who buys what and how many of each pin in 2017. It took me a good 3 yrs to get over the "JJP kool aid built like a tank" BS
Some of you guys are behind the curve. You'll learn

JJP machines are built like a tank and higher quality than a Stern. I think everyone knows that. The build quality on my former WOZ and Hobbit was very good.. it truly felt like it was worth the price tag.

Unfortunately, the code and layouts of those pins didn't do it for me in the long term. Excellent build quality, and the support I received from their support guy was also great.

It's not a Stern vs JJP thing when it comes to playfields- why? Because I think everyone can agree that the mirco playfields on all JJP machines is much higher quality then what comes on a Stern. My Hobbit playfield was one of the best playfields I've ever seen on a pin. No ghosting, extremely shallow dimpling, zero chips in shooter Lane, drain hole brand new after 500+ plays, etc etc. even the colors and clear coat were amazing.

#737 7 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

I guess you can't read what the route operator says?
F it nvm

I did. That was his opinion, and that is mine. I am sure being that he's an operator, a very large operator, his opinion does hold more weight than mine. I was just stating that my experience and owning JJP vs Stern machines are that they are truly built like a tank.. that's all Iceman.. take a shot of some tequila (while its still cheap) and chill .. its friday!

#738 7 years ago
Quoted from RobT:

I'll definitely be there!

Couldn't agree more.

Awesome man!! We'll see you there then!

#739 7 years ago
Quoted from JoshODBrown:

Here's my drain after a couple weeks. original playfield from March. I'm on the list for a replacement, have been told it'll be coming soon. Had a number of inserts ghosting too, more notably the Storage Facility originally just after a week or so. ghosting appearing on more inserts as time goes on...

Damn sorry to hear that.. expect the artwork to come off with it next unfortunately.

#741 7 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

Yes, but individual preference doesn't define the consensus - something that escapes you. Your comments show you don't like working towards objectives, but would rather have it more readily obtainable or at immediate reach. Hence the suggestion of games that don't require qualifying things or much effort to lite up alternate paths.
'having to shoot the away team' to qualify modes being frustrating? On TZ you still have to hit a ramp to qualify the mode start being ON and then hit the shot... which is common in most games. Mode start being available without qualifying varies in many games, but not sure why having to hit a mode start is 'frustrating'

Because it's the worst shot in the game, in my opinion.

Sorry you disagree with my opinion.

Care to argue which flavor of ice cream is better?

10
#759 7 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

must be a socal thing.. the shots are not that difficult nor devious. If you had to complete a warp combo.. ok. But simply a wide shot to the left.. that never rejects.. or a shot to the right where you can even use the flipper to sweep the ball in?? Not stuff to moan about.

I think you are right. I remember reading an interview with Dwight where he discussed designing the code for Stern's Star Trek.

He said he coded the game to purposely annoy people in SoCal with the mission start shot requirements. He then said, and I quote, "Guys in Virginia are going to absolutely LOVE this part of the game"

#764 7 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

At least you are consistent in your whining about game rules. Funny how you compared everything to hobbit... then matured and sold that off. What's your new hotness now? I love checking in on your reviews of games... from the complete opposite end of the spectrum.

Oh really? Right on

13
#781 7 years ago

Hoby's new job at Stern:

IMG_3750 (resized).JPGIMG_3750 (resized).JPG

#806 7 years ago

Update: Buyback from Stern isn't going anywhere so far, they are giving Trent, my distro, a bunch of shit and not getting back to his repeated calls and emails.

I'll never buy a POS Stern ever again.

If you ever play the Stern NIB lotto again, I hope you don't get a defective product like me - what a goddamn joke this company is !

#812 7 years ago

I have so many DM's from people who have issues and getting the same treatment and complaining, not to mention all the comments on the petition page. Stern has really hurt themselves, its not like this is some huge business with a lot of potential customers. It's a niche hobby and I feel Stern is trying hard to hurt their image, not help them. It's serious bullshit at this point.

#817 7 years ago
Quoted from Delta9:

Just got an email from stern im on the list for a new le playfeild

I got that email in August 2016 !

lol

#822 7 years ago
Quoted from Delta9:

lol better than nothing at least im on the list . Im pretty sure stern is gonna wait till they know 100 percent that they have the issue resolved before they start sending out a replacement im cool with that

I wonder what their list really is though. Could be a napkin sitting under a cup of coffee on Patrick Powers desk. Trust me, I know you feel warm and cozy right now - but they are in no hurry to make things happen. But they do appreciate your patience I am sure.

-4
#832 7 years ago
Quoted from Manimal:

Received a call Friday and was told they have been receiving playfields and stocking them for the swap and should ramp up sending out boxes in February. As others have said, they were making sure the playfields were good. My suggestion, play the crap out of what you have, be happy, and wait for the box. You might even have that new playfield before KPG gets his buyback.....lol..................

How about instead of trying to make "a funny" you give credit where credit is due? Obviously me turning up the heat and putting pressure on Stern has helped them speed up the process. I've noticed that since posting here, they are starting to ramp up their efforts- and I was told about the February date as well. I'm pretty sure it's no coincidence, especially since the attorney general complaint was filed and I'm sure they have been in contact with Stern and also putting pressure on them.

-1
#837 7 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

It's hard to say.
Obviously, at some point, Stern would have identified the cause of the problem and started issuing replacements.
How do we know if a thread on Pinside helped Stern discover the causation faster, made no difference, or slowed it down?

I am sure it helped "prioritize" the program and speed things up - the petition, letter, threads, Illinois attorney general complaint, etc definitely had to put the heat on them because it wasn't helping them sell pinball machines, that's for sure.

#893 7 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

I sure hope so lol. I don't wanna have to come on here and go all KPG on Stern!

LOL

The sad thing is this buyback of my machine seems to be a bunch of straight up BULLSHIT.

Stern has still not acknowledged Trent and has not done anything to move this forward.

I'm thinking some of the other distributors are a bit harder on them then Trent.

Has anyone had a playfield replacement going through Trent?

Unbelievable

#898 7 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

It's hard to say.
No matter what, Stern was going to fix the problem.
But if Gary himself looked at the OPs posts and found them to be mean spirited, he may have had second thoughts about buying the machine back.

That's totally fine

People read this thread and likely see how Stern is treating me and others, and it affects their sales

How many pins sold has my thread and my awareness of this situation, including the petition, cost Stern? I'd say it's a good number

I'm ok with taking their sweet time. Longer it goes on the longer this thread will stay alive and people will see what a piece of shit company Stern is

Go ahead Gary.. put me at the end of the line... as long as it's costing you machines sold and you are proving my point of how you don't take care of some of your customers only affects your wallet, not mine

#899 7 years ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

I JUST CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHY THOSE DOUCHEBAGS WONT RETURN MY CALLS!!!!!

They aren't returning Trent's calls

What's your point?

Stern shouldn't return calls to a good distributor of theirs? I don't bother calling them at all. That's my distro's job

So your attempt at humor really wasn't well thought out at all man.

#908 7 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I'm sure Stern is returning Trent's calls.
Stern is not going to stop taking weekly orders from Trent, just because of you.
Trent is not going to close his business down, just because of you.

Ahh- so you are calling Trent a liar now?

Nice !

Can you explain your thoughts as to why you are accusing Trent of Tilt Amusements of lying to a customer?

-10
#910 7 years ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

My point is that your terrorist-like approach has gotten you nowhere, and you can't seem to understand why.
Since you're the butt of the joke, I'm not surprised you don't find it funny.
Even funnier is the fact that I personally warned you not to buy a GBLE cause you'd probably have issues and you flamed me at the time.
Payback. It's something all right!

Dude - terrorist like approach?

Man your posts here are pathetic. This post once again shows it.

You are honestly the biggest d-bag on Pinside, congrats "Chambahz" whatever that name even means.

Take your shit and drain my thread. You are a straight up troll. No one cares what you have to say, as it's always condescending and against the crowd anyway.

Must be a real great guy to hang with in person. Probably have one of those punchable looking faces too.

#912 7 years ago
Quoted from ExtremePinball:

Correct!!! There just aren't enough KPGs to influence Stern to correct their obvious, continuing, and multiple lack of quality control standards.
So yes, Stern IS just going to continue to screw everyone that still hands over their money, sight unseen.

The good thing is the more people that buy their junk, the more "KPGs" will be on this site complaining

I don't care if they take another year to buy back my machine

Fact is if I cost them 10 pin sales that's almost $100K in revenue lost. Makes up for the few hundred I've lost on my crappy playfield

Everything past 10 pin sales lost is icing on the cake

So they are only hurting themselves.. they are a small biz and every pin counts.. so if they are sitting back doing this on purpose, it's not costing me shit - but it is for their distros and business- even if it's not a big number, money is money - clearly their reputation for quality built products is on a downtrend and not an uptrend

#918 7 years ago
Quoted from hoby1:

It's more like 10 premium pins being 60k. " what dealers pay figuring on 10% margin with Stern pricing. Say Sterns working on 15% profit margins that's only 9k in profit. Probably costs them about 4/5 playfields shipped with P&L.
Sorry to saybut for them that's a drop in the hat

That's fine

Drop in the hat or not, it's money lost and less money Gary can give himself a bonus

So go ahead Gary.. ignore customers on Facebook, Pinside, Instagram, and Trent regarding my playfield

Trent got back to me and said they haven't replaced a single playfield of his customers pins

So it's not just me

I'm fine waiting. I am happy bringing awareness to this situation. There's plenty of lurkers on Pinside without accounts or that post about it, I'm sure there is plenty of people who have decided to not purchase a NIB pin because of my experience here, and others like me.

All good.. not costing me a dime.. and every post I make here is probably costing them. So it's worth my time.

#919 7 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

You have to learn to read between the lines.
In the States, someone might say "I've called Stern 3 times about your game; and they will not return my calls!"
That does not mean that Stern has not taken Trent's orders in the last 4 months.
That does not mean that Stern is not updating Trent on that new game about to be announced.
That does not mean that Trent has closed down his business and is no longer selling pins.
It only means that no answer has been given on YOUR particular situation.

You make no sense Vid. I like your posts here I do... but who would think they wouldn't take Trent's orders or money from people? They are clearly in the business of taking money. That's obvious. They just don't get back to him regarding customer issues and Trent has said it's across the board with everyone with problems.

#923 7 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I think that Stern has to take a cue from Fender Guitars.
Back in the 80s, players were bitching that after playing their guitars too much, the finish would wear down to the bare wood.
(anyone that had ever seen a touring musician's guitar would probably know that if you play a guitar for 2 hours every night, you are going to wear through the paint).
Fender had a brilliant idea. Take a brand new guitar, sand off the paint, put some cigarette burns on the headstock and scratch up the back like someone had a giant belt buckle. Call these guitars "relics". Oh, and charge $2,000 extra for the service.
Stern needs to start promoting the idea that if your game looks mint, you are not a serious player. You must be a "checkbook pinhead" who buys games to show off, not to play.
Relic Pins would come pre-worn. They would look like you have played millions of balls through it - like a real pinball player would.
This comes with a Certificate of Authenticity, a beat up travel case, 1 year warranty and a $6,000 price tag:

Don't give Stern any more ideas- they will end up doing this and asking to submit a video and application to purchase, and ask $15K for it

#925 7 years ago

I have a scheduled phone call with the Illinois attorney general on Tues at 1pm PST. They are getting more info about the situation, hopefully they will put pressure on Stern now. But who knows.. I'll find out Tues I guess

#931 7 years ago
Quoted from Wolfmarsh:

I am not a lawyer, but could a defective clear coat fall under the implied warranty of merchantability, or under the implied warranty of fitness for a particular purpose, given that these games are intended to be money making machines?

My attorney specifically said that if a product in the US is sold with defects out of the box and new, the manufacturer warranty and verbiage does not have any merit - you cannot sell defective products, plain and simple. Like I said, the Illinois attorney general will have more info on this case I'm sure, and I'll update accordingly after I speak with him/her on tues

#943 7 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Gee thanks....that's awfully nice of you
I'll explain my reasons for buying a new GB.....not that I owe you an explanation but I will anyway. I think GB is one of the best pins Stern has ever made and I love it and I want one bad. I bought two new games last year and they are really nice games with no issues. I do believe that the playfield issues have been corrected and that everything will be fine. I also believe that if I get a bad playfield which is a slim possibility because there's no way that they can make 100% perfect playfields all the time, that Stern will stand behind their product and fix it. It may not be as fast as I like but I believe it will be fixed in time. So there you have it, if you have any other questions of concerns please let me know.

Why not just buy a second hand machine, bring cash, inspect it - then take it home?

Crossing your fingers and hoping you get a quality machine from Stern is a total gamble now. Let someone else take that gamble for you.

Look at Iceman's BM66LE. He defended Stern a lot here, then gets a turd shipped to him that doesn't even work. You know he thought to himself when he found that out "that f*ckin KPG was right" lol.

Don't be that guy. Just buy it used, save money, save a headache. Stern is in no hurry to make anything right.

#957 7 years ago
Quoted from Rob_G:

I think your approach is doing more bad than good, even for yourself.
Rob

Hey Rob,

You are wrong. Raising a scene even if at a ridiculous level like mine only brings awareness to a serious problem like this. I don't care if you agree with my approach, it's irrelevant as it is working and everyone in the market is clearly informed and will make their own educated decision on buying a new Stern.

I don't care about what you think about me here. I was sold a shit product, have gotten shit treatment, and now many people are deciding to not buy Stern's shit.

I think that approach is great and I'm happy with that.

#966 7 years ago
Quoted from Manimal:

Yes, and they will take your complaint and then make a phone call to Stern, and that is pretty much all they will do. In a State like Illinois (11Billion Dollars in arrears right now) , they would need half a stadium full of folks to even consider any type of real action. Oh they will tell you great things....just don't expect them to run into the courthouse and start filing cases. You CAN file your own civil case if you want, and maybe in 2 years or so it will be heard.
Got my replacement playfield early last week and just installed earlier today. Beautiful shape, and everything on the field is new...not my stuff switched to a new playfield, and not someone else's (I marked several pieces). No wear, no scratches, and everything is back to where it was when I bought the pin. I went back and added the shooter lane guards, added some mylar to the shooter lane and outhole, and replaced a few other mods. Here is the funny part......Playing the first game, I quickly discovered that my old playfield must have had a switch that wasn't working. I hadn't seen the Scolari brothers in forever, except for certain setups. I just assumed the new code had pretty much done away with them since everyone was complaining......turns out the inertia ball switch wasn't working on the old pin. I probably mucked it up when I put in the wire strengthener and didn't even know it. My first game on the new playfield was a whole new experience. At any rate, I got first class communication and first class treatment. I initially called my Distro when the ghosting appeared, and I got a call every 2 weeks just assuring me the replacement was still in the works. Not a lover or a hater, but I do have to give credit where it is due. yes, I did wait for a few months like everyone else, but my game played just fine during that time.

Glad to hear that you got a new playfield!!

I really do think your distributor has a lot to do with it. In all honesty, Trent doesn't seem like a guy who is truly turning the heat up on Stern and a guy who excels in communication. I sometimes think I'd have had a better experience had I used a distributor with some more backbone like JJ or Mike from Automated. Seems Stern is shipping replacement playfields to their customers and Trent claims they haven't replaced a playfield for any of his customers. Unless someone here can chime in and say you have a replacement and went through Trent?

I am also speculating, but can't confirm at this time, that Stern even promised him they would buy back my machine. Maybe he was blowing smoke up my ass the whole time. Who really knows any more.

Do I think the attorney general thing will work out? Who knows.. and it's not a big deal.

At this point I assume Stern is pissed off enough they'll just screw me over and not send me a playfield or buy back my machine. Funny thing is many people would be happy with that, which is pretty sad. The truth is Stern sold me a defective product, made a promise 6 months ago, and has not delivered anything.

Whether someone thinks I deserve to get screwed by stern or not by raising awareness of their quality control issues, well, is their choice. I don't care. But if this happens to you one day, we'll chalk it up to karma. Iceman, how's that BM66LE doing?

#968 7 years ago
Quoted from Chambahz:

I expect everyone on Pinside wants to see you made whole, but also maybe to suffer the longest, given the way you've chosen to go about this. Now you're even throwing jabs at Trent?
Damn, Dude. Looks like the playfield on your Ghostbusters isn't the only thing coming apart at your house!
Hang in there. Stern will make it right.

Ok, so you are now implying things "are coming apart at my house"

lol

Man, you really are the biggest troll on Pinside. Why haven't you drained the thread already? You are a weird dude, serious.

#974 7 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I think you are going out of your way to make sure you don't get any help from Stern or Trent.
We all want to see you get your game bought back.
But holy smokes dude, you are burning every bridge you've got.
-
-
-
» YouTube video

It's past that point. Don't care what Trent or Stern does anymore for me. I'll chalk it up as Stern sold me junk and has not made it right, and has lied and screwed me over- with no help from Trent. Don't care.. dont with them and I've accepted it is what it is. I'll sell it for a loss and move on.

#979 7 years ago
Quoted from plowpusher:

Gary was just on the CBS Sunday morning news show talking about the big renewed interest in pinball. They interviewed the sharp family and showed some barcades, the whole segment was very positive about pinball stuff.He said they have a 2 1/2 month backlog of orders so hopefully these play fields are still on there list of things to do but probably not high on there list as there just to dam busy.He forgot to mention anything about these recent problems .

Perfect, I'm going to call CBS this week and inquire about running a story about this then. It's worth a shot. If they will run a story promoting Gary and his business, then they should also run a story on this and cite my petition.

11
#995 7 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

Really? Don't you think this is going just a bit too far?
The general public isn't going to understand the nature or scope of the problem and will have a knee-jerk reaction along the lines of "I thought maybe having a pinball machine would be cool, but if they are all defective I don't want one"
I generally approve of what you have done, but IMO this crosses the line.

You know what crosses the line with me?

Spending $8,000 on a pinball machine, sold by a company that has been in business for 30 years.. and getting a defective product straight out of the box.

Then having the owner of the company promise a replacement in october 2016

Then ignoring me, not responding to emails, and not doing shit about fulfilling a promise.

Yeah, you cross that line with me and you deserve whatever the fuck comes your way next.

#998 7 years ago
Quoted from ExtremePinball:

How many have I seen lately? Aside from the half dozen or so in Las Vegas alone.... I'm not stupid enough to buy another NIB just to see if they fixed the problem.

Whatever critics of mine are in here defending Stern, you need to read ExtremePinballs posts and know he's literally one of the largest Ops and purchasers of Stern pins out there.

His opinion of Stern and experience with their defective products speaks volumes - he knows better than me, and better than you. How many other ops feel the same way as Extreme that don't post here? Probably many.

If Stern isn't affected much by this now, well, it won't be long before this shit catches up to them. Not a smart business move for Gary to continue to ignore this problem.

#1007 7 years ago
Quoted from ExtremePinball:

So I'm NOT a double douche for buying $250k+ worth of pinball machines, but I AM a douche for buying a car with a clear bra. Got it.
Haters gonna hate.

I guess we're both douches then. I have clear bra on my McLaren and it protects my paint well. Now, if it chipped on it's own then id have a problem. Good thing Stern doesn't make cars.

#1019 7 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

:lalala:Pretty impressive. Route Stern pins and get a Lamborghini

He has stated many times his pins don't really earn him much, its his video game arcades that do - just to be fair.

Also, no one is complaining about old Stern machines- my MET and TWD are great and I enjoy them a lot, playfields are immaculate. It's the new Stern pins that have gone the cheapo route. I bought my GBLE based on the quality of the other Stern pins I bought.. I spent the most on a Stern pin w/ GBLE and got a completed POS compared to my other, less costly Sterns. That's the problem here.

19
#1044 7 years ago

Update:

Spoke to the Illinois Attorney general finally today after some phone tag.

Interesting thing right off the bat - their office is fielding "several" complaints against Stern Pinball, some for unrelated problems and a "handful" that seems directly related to my case of a defective product that is currently unresolved.

They simply asked for more information, if I had the contact information for those who have signed the petition (I'll get those soon - I'll likely PM some random people) who also can be interviewed.

They said they are "in contact with the company" but would not answer in what way. Could mean anything.

Wish I had more info, and I don't know where it will go - but it's at least something and I can't say I'm surprised, but it is interesting they have similar complaints already filed with them...

#1046 7 years ago
Quoted from paulywalnuts23:

Crazy it has to get this far for people to get answers and fixes for their machines.

Yeah, it's pretty pathetic.

Just look at the post where Stern sent a guy some sandpaper and clearcoat to fix his defective playfield.. what a shitshow

#1049 7 years ago
Quoted from iceman44:

Can you ask the Illinois attny general, along with the New Jersey AG to look into price fixing between Stern and JJP too while you are at it?
It's the high pricing issue that is going to impact these guys in 2017, not QC
When people start figuring out all these newly minted $8500-$9500 Woz, TH, DI's AND Stern premiums and LE's $7500-$8500, won't bring anything close on the secondary market it will be back to PROS and boutique runs like BM66
High prices hit a brick wall in 2017

It's a perfect storm - price increases AND poor QC from Stern. It's a recipe for major depreciation, that's for sure.

The market has spoken and people buying second hand pins that are still in production and can be bought NIB simply do not want to pay more then $7500-7800 for a pin. Unless of course its a rare great condition B/W pin.

Anyone paying these prices better be ready to take a bigger loss on resale and also know that the machine itself could be a POS and Stern will drag their ass as long as possible to make it right.

#1055 7 years ago
Quoted from Manimal:

Imagine that...buying something, using it, and then selling it for less......Oh the humanity!

One of the reasons I got into purchasing pinball, and not just playing them at locations, was the fact they depreciate very little - even when buying NIB. I think that's the story for many of us.

All it has done is shifted me from buying NIB Sterns to only buying used from now on. I won't take the large hit that will come with these new prices vs a tiny hit that was in the past.

#1067 7 years ago
Quoted from flynnibus:

That he looked at a hobby in a moment in time and extrapolated that to mean thats how it always is? Surely you can understand the naivety in that or at least self-induced failure.

How about the time in the hobby when pins were a fraction of what they cost now and they actually made people money?

My point is it can still work that way- you buy a pin right now at a great price, play it a lot and maintain it well, and you can sell it close to what you bought it for, and in some cases- more. What's so hard to understand here? I swear, the mindset around here blows me away. Always looking to twist shit in a negative way. What's hard to decipher and comprehend that the price increases mean that NIB buyers will take larger depreciation hits then in the past? What's so hard to understand? Need a picture to help comprehend such a complicated statement?

37
#1081 7 years ago

Wanted to give an update on my personal situation with Stern.

I spoke with John Buscaglia and Patrick Powers on a conference call today. Trent had been in touch with Stern as you know for quite some time, and finally made this phone call happen. So I can't lay any blame right now, I think he really was struggling to get answers and communicate w/ Stern and get fresh info to pass on to me.

First off, I have never spoken to John, but he is awesome. He first started off apologizing and saying sorry about the communication issues I have had with Stern. He was very sincere sounding, and really came off as a good dude. Told me he came from Topps cards and he understands the collector mindset and expectations - so there was no disputing on what I think is a defect vs. Stern's definition.

John also mentioned he knows communication is a problem and they are looking into ways to bring up the level of communication with customers. I spoke my mind loud and clear about the censorship of customer's social media posts and how they are quick to reply with a snarky comment to someone on there, but silent when it comes to complaints and everything else. John agreed and said Stern is looking to improve all aspects of their communication with customers.

They have my playfield ready and after my phone call w/ John, I decided I will not move forward with a buyback request - but simply replace the playfield. He also said he read many of my posts here and yes, all of my actions here did get them to the drawing board and said many of my criticisms here he cannot defend and agreed w/ a lot of them, which was pretty cool to hear that.

John offered to overnight me the playfield replacement box, but I declined as I know that is pretty pricey. I said just knowing its coming is fine w/ me. All I want out of this is better communication and them to see customers will not stand for high priced, half assed shit with poor customer service. John was very open to listening to me and told me they are trying to improve things at Stern based feedback here on Pinside. This site DOES matter to this hobby... all of our opinions and suggestions do get read. If you have a problem, post it here as Stern does read this and it seems is taking it to heart which is great for us hobbyists.

As of right now I am very happy after talking to John today, and from what he told me - everyone else should be getting the same result as me very soon as well. Hopefully this was a great lesson for Stern in regards to manufacturing, quality control, and especially customer service.

#1115 7 years ago
Quoted from spfxted:

KPG...I don't give a shit what anybody says....ya did good!!

Thank you man!

I know there are a lot of negative/shit talking responses here. You guys are entitled to those opinions, and that is fine. I guess you won't know what its like to be on my side of the fence unless it happens to you - but I hear your complaints from your side and appreciate you guys keeping this thread bumped up. Without you, it wouldn't have gotten as much awareness.. so I thank you for that

In all honesty, I am happy that it is moving forward in a positive way. I am not happy it took close to 7 months after my purchase to get to this point, and a lot of noise here on the forums. It was never about the financial hit I would be taking if selling the machine with a bad playfield, but it's the point of the situation and how it was handled. I had bought great and perfectly fine Stern NIB machines for less money, and GB was my dream theme I waited 1+ years to finally get after the leaks of the game- then it turns out to a complete pile of junk compared to my other Stern machines.

I love what Stern does and what they do for the pinball community, and keeping the old school pinball designers and coders employed. For that I am appreciative of their company. I hope this experience will only better their company and improve their products for all of us. I simply cannot see my efforts here going unnoticed and not having some type of positive residual effect on Stern as a company. If they see noisy customers who put their foot down can single handedly raise awareness and inform customers of potential issues with their products, they will re-think a lot of what goes on in their business not only from a quality assurance standpoint, but also from a customer service and communication standpoint.

I know John is going to take care of this and this case will be closed for me at least, but I hope this particular situation has brought to light problems at Stern and has made something that would normally be swept under the rug into something of a bigger topic during their executive meetings.

#1138 7 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Yep I agree and I am the same way, i tell it like it is. I wonder if KPG would whine and cry if we went over to his house and kicked his ass in pinball real good on his own machines?

Haha.. nah... you might kick my ass on my pins (I'm not a very good player to be honest) but no way you would beat my wife. She's the best pinball player in the house and holds the grand champ scores on 4 of 6 machines, sadly lol.

But really, I really do like what Stern does and since there's not much competition - and I do love their products - I just wanted to make it known that while I enjoy their products, I can't keep giving them money if they don't put out good products just because they are Stern.

I told John on the phone that I want to continue to be a Stern customer in the future, I just want the confidence I am buying a quality made product that has been tested, and built as well as the price tag that comes along with it. Also, I want to make sure that if there is a problem - which there probably will be something minor as expected since it is a pinball machine being shipped across the country in a bumpy truck - that they have my back and will take care of anything that happens with it. That's it, plain and simple. I really don't want anything else out of this, but for them to use this situation to improve their products and communication with the customers that help keep the doors open there.

I felt as if John understood this and of all people, including Gary, I felt he was the most sincere and helpful during this entire process and a really good person who wasn't just telling me what I wanted to hear. He's definitely a guy I'd want working for me if running a business like Stern Pinball.

#1144 7 years ago
Quoted from Who-Dey:

Your wife has all the high scores on your machines and you actually admit it? Man card revoked dude!!

LOL ! My buddies give me shit about that all the time. I told them I use the cup holders to hang my purse from it when I play.. I have no shame... my wife is very very good at pinball and we love playing it together when the kids go to bed. I know everyone has their reasons for playing and loving standing there trying to beat their previous high score- but for me, it's just one of the only hobbies that my wife and I share together that we both really enjoy. Every couple should have a certain hobby (or more) to do when the kids go to bed and its time to chill.. pinball is ours.. but she happens to be better than me at it!

1 week later
23
#1153 7 years ago

Update:

Box received and playfield is boxed up ready to ship back.

They ended up shipping it overnight any way. So it looks like Stern has finally came through with their promise.

I am hoping more people are starting to get some information regarding their PF replacements now..

1 week later
#1164 7 years ago
Quoted from nowakster:

he was burnt out from all the emotion i'm sure. It's likely he is enjoying his replacement. You can bet that he would be on here again if anything was wrong.

Yeah, the whole thing burned me out.. been so busy lately, I am glad to get this crap off my chest. Box is in route to Stern, should have my new playfield soon.

Let's see what happens.. still not planning on buying a NIB Stern any time soon after all this.. hope to change my opinion when it's all said and done though.

#1167 7 years ago
Quoted from cliff_clavin:

I don't want to fire you up as you have had plenty of aggravation of late....Would it have killed Stern to send the replacement play field first and then you can ship your defective one back? I understand the logic and how some would take advantage of this type of policy but given the circumstances, it would have been appropriate for Stern to ship the replacement first.....

Agreed. Just getting Stern to send me an empty box after 7 months was next to impossible, so i'll take what I can get at this point.. but you are right, it would have been nice for them to make an exception in my particular case.

1 week later
#1211 7 years ago
Quoted from ledge:

you did get your replacement PF right ? all good?... sorry if I missed an update elsewhere.

The new playfield just arrived today... will install it and see if it arrived without issue!

13
#1221 7 years ago

New playfield is in and working !!

It wasn't packed very well, so the slimer motor was tweaked and actually punctured the box. Straightened it out and it plays fine. No ghosting, looks to be good for now. We'll see if there are any other issues down the road, but stoked Stern finally pulled through on this.

Loved playing Aerosmith at the expo... maybe this will give me the confidence to pick up a Pro sooner than later...

#1224 7 years ago
Quoted from TheLaw:

Played Aerosmith at a show and you liked it
Probably do more business with Stern.
What a rollercoaster

Totally right, what a rollercoaster.

But- in all fairness.. if I buy Aerosmith, it wont be NIB..

2 weeks later
12
#1236 6 years ago

Just an FYI:

I received a letter from the Illinois Attorney General today. Attached, there was an email response from Michael O'Donnell (Executive VP/CFO of Stern) with a very detailed response to the attorney general.

The email response from Michael @ Stern was sent to the Attorney General on Feb. 16th. I received the call my playfield was ready and an empty return box would be shipping to me on Feb. 16th. Not a coincidence I am sure.

If anyone is still having a problem with their machine and getting a replacement, feel free to contact the Illinois Attorney General which is Lisa Madigan.

Here is the contact info if wanting to open a case:

Beatriz Reyna-Villazana
Citizen's Advocate
Consumer Protection Division
[email protected]
(312) 814-6076

Stern has made it right and my case is closed- but just know, contacting the AG of Illinois did work in my situation.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
Trade
Machine - For Trade
Grand Rapids, MI
$ 130.00
Flipper Parts
Pin Monk
Flipper parts
$ 50.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
arcade-cabinets.com
Toys/Add-ons
$ 93.00
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
Lermods
Toys/Add-ons
From: $ 649.95
Lighting - Led
Pin Stadium Pinball Mods
Led

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider kpg.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/changeorg-petition-gary-stern-replace-defective-playfields?tu=kpg and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.