Unfortunately Vid is right, replacing playfields is only a PR move (or to get the very greasy wheels off their case). It's been said a gazillion times, vote with your wallets people. You don't like what Stern is doing, stop buying their machines (and contact them telling them this so they don't simply rely on sales numbers).

Me and my wife have both been a Toyota fan for almost 20 years, we especially loved Scion. They killed off the Scion brand because they didn't invest money into it so sales tanked. The Rav4 (which she's owned 2 of in the past) has gone from a small affordable SUV to an overpriced behemoth without hardly any bells and whistles, so my wife switched to mazda and MY next car will also not be a Toyota. You know what Mazda did after we bought our car? They wrote us a letter to thank us for buying a vehicle from them, and gave us window stickers because they're hungry to increase sales.

Stern is sort of like the Toyota of pinball machines. They're #1, so they don't have to care about their customers. Except toyotas work reliably

If true, that is an answer Stern should be providing kpg.

No problem ...... That's why I waited for the November run to get my premium.

It's been a well talked about fact around here that they changed back to Churchill. Where have you been.

Obviously your more about debating and calling people out then listening to advise that could possibly help you

You better change your user name.

Well how's that going to fly when George Gomez's interview is played in which he talked about the "shift" in who is buying pinballs... (slightly paraphrased):

"It's a huge challenge because we were a commercial business... quality expectations were different... games were put on a street and an operator operated them...there were no unboxing parties. The expectations have shifted...the game experience...the quality expectations, the material and processes we have to select in order to make games for the modern world are a lot different than what we chose in the 90s. In the 90s if an op got a game and there was a scratch on the wall of the inside, he had can of black spray paint in his tool box and he took care of it. But today, we are making something that is collectable and it's a consumer product, so the expectations are different. You know, when you take your Samsung TV out of the box, it's perfect. And so the expectation for our product has become that. So one of my challenges is that I had to transition all of the processes and material choices...and how we design the physical elements of the game to reflect the consumer product as opposed to a product that somebody operated."

Pretty much says it all... they know it. You know it. Everyone knows it. The pricing clearly reflects it. And the VP of whatever has said it. And they've already been appealing to customer complaints that fall outside of that antiquated warranty.

I don't know if a petition or law suits are necessary...but I can certainly understand why collectors who shelled out $5K to $8K are frustrated. I've always found Chas at Stern to be really responsive, helpful and accommodating. So it's super confusing to hear that customers are being shutout. Doesn't make any sense.

unfortunately I'm going to need to, had it forever

stern (resized).jpg

/couldn't help it

So your hersay is better than stern's own responses... oh and that stern refuses to actually confirm any of this... to even their own distributors/partners?

Do you not see the problem here?

You remind me of the guy who insisted in sept he knew everything about what Playfield's were going out... and was entirely wrong... because he trusted his anecdotal info as if it was representative of everything.

And kudos for telling people that paid before the game even launched.... that waiting till nov was the informed buy. Way to go captain hindsight

I got my GB replacement playfield November 23, 2016

Don't act like it was unknown .. Fkn well know fact around here about the PFs. WTF Gary said about it on a press conference! Everyone new they were going back to Churchill and now its my fault because I paid attention and did my homework. Ooooh I should have alerted the media. As far as being an informed buyer.... thats also correct. This summer I would not purchase because of the problems that were coming up. In September I trusted my dist. to give me the most accurate information concerning the problem. I weighed all my options and made a choice which was to wait until I was sure.

As far as issues, I never, ever said there wasn't problems as there 100% is. Bottom line GO HANDLE IT ANYWAY YOU WANT. Don't want my advise fine, let see how fast this type of diplomacy gets him a new PF.

Plenty of info on this if you look.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/ghostbusters-premium-share-your-info/page/25

Start on #1221 and read.

And this thread

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/is-your-stern-ghosting-grazing-insert-lifting-other/page/13

I feel your pain, KPG, and certainly respect how you feel you should handle for yourself.

There is a lot more truth to this, than being realized, I fear.

If I sound unsympathetic I am truly sorry. The only point I am hoping to get across is...... I really feel your best chances are bending over backwards to work with them even if you shouldn't have too.

Bottom line is ..... Its all about getting you a new PF ASAP

I think you are fine, its a perspective.
In a charged thread and situation like this, often it plows ahead with a direction and purpose not to be swayed.

Often times, its all emotions, and as shown, empathy is possible, but rejected if it isnt towing the line, or coming from one in a similar situation.

Bottom line, this may get KPG a result faster, or slower....we will wait and see.

Personally, I believe it will result in a faster "answer", but a slower "result".

I truly hope not, for his and others sake.

Not true. Waiting on an amazon return to be approved right now...

bottom line is Stern should be taking better care of their customers

Stern is the one who should be bending over backwards to take care of their customers or one day they may find themselves on the wrong side of things.

I'm glad things have worked out for you...now go away and let the OP get his promised replacement playfield that he was promised 6 months ago.

with the vindictive nature of the PR team, let's hope they are not the 2 guys dealing with the pf exchange process...

I fear given the shear volume of pf defects going out the door and continuing even now, that the only real solution is people have to speak with their wallets.

That is a big reason that I whole heartedly support this and other social media storms to try and get the word out. Preventing future sales for Stern is a good start to make them wake up and change what they are doing. I also liek the idea of writing a personal letter to let them know they will not be getting future dolars until they fix current issues, improve communication, and set forth a more tranparent code update plan for each game.

I know some think it is silly, but I have to imagine that if Gomez and Gary both get even 50 letters (1-2) a week which personally tell your story and frustration with trying to be a loyal customer, then it cant hurt the cause.

I've actually heard about this directly from someone active in pinball press that experienced it firsthand, but very much outside of the public eye. If his/her account is truthful, then the storyline is totally surprising and unprofessional. Quiet shocking, actually.

thanks for your efforts!

Off topic but if not pri.e that happens. If prime as soon as shipping is confirmed the money is yours.

Someone needed to take a stance, and you stepped up!

On the opposite side of this service fiasco, the call from Stern I received last year actually "Asked"
how my play field was. In the end, fine service as always for me personally.

One might know I try to support all businesses in this shared hobby.

One thing is true, and with no finger pointing at all, vindictiveness, in its petty form
does exist in the hobby and the industry with some, not all.

This is sad.

At this point, it may just be you that they don't give a shit about Kpg.

Like you said, all you can do now is wait it out, at the end of the line. Play your pinball machine, the balls still roll fine on the existing PF.

The current condition has zero impact on playing the actual game itself. You want to sell it? Just gotta wait it out.

Liike I said, on the bright side, you get a brand new PF at some point to swap out.

its not defective, its happened on may games in the past too. A big part of the problem is the yahoo's here demanding clear so thick you can measure it looking at the edge of the play field. In the old days the clear was thin and would crack at the inserts you'd see it in the black key lines. No one complained too much. The clear is now a bunch thicker so then there is movement the clear does not crack but instead pulls off the weakest bonded surface, which is the plastic since painting plastic sucks without special paints.

Did you read my comments on the petition? Ck it out. Doug Moe

They need a MUCH better system of communication, especially with the sales success they are having. The Batman automatic email updates might be a step in the right direction.

Take a cue from Vid who's been around a long time. Patience. Maybe they just want to make sure the issues are 100% worked out right? It's costly to ship those things. Yes, communication and administration is terrible (see my comments)

I don't think they are getting away with anything. There are always many ways to skin the cat my man.

On the plus side, I love my Stern pins and am excited to have my BM66LE arrive next week. If it has any issues I have zero concern about them being resolved.

Does the defect affect your ability to play your GBLE at all? Not one bit. It's cosmetic. You bought it, enjoy the shit out of it in the meantime.

Did the Apple issue affect my ability to use my machine? Yes it did. I have one of those defective machines and i purchased a replacement.

How long did the Apple action take to get resolved? Years.

those advocating patience should ask themselves how they would feel if they were stuck with a pin that they couldn't sell....6 months is long enough to replace the pf....part of the issue is that there is no guarantee that the affected owners will even receive a new pf....

also, the smudging of the date and using an older pf for a replacement is indefensible....that is beyond sleazy...kind of shocking truthfully....

I signed because I've seen the issues on multiple playfields and it was quite obvious that this was not a small, limited issue. it was affecting nearly all of the playfields in games that stern was shipping at the time (GB, GoT, Met and SMve)

I believe that this is just one more hit to stern's reputation. it was bad enough that it was soiled by the person / person(s) running their facebook page (the childish antics of banning and removing anything negative is akin to a redacted government document, but the delayed and no response mentality of those affected is unforgivable

the sad part is that there are many people @ stern which are outstanding people including chas and patrick in their service department
I've had what I would consider issues with my first NIB machine that I should have never had, but fortunately I'm technically oriented enough that I can take care of my issues myself. sure, I'm having to purchase parts that I probably shouldn't have to (and many of my issues should have been caught by their QA/QC department "every machine is thoroughly inspected before it leaves the factory"

however, with that being said, I still have to hand it to people like chas and patrick who are more than willing to talk and help you obtain the parts and/or information that you need in order to make things right

I mistakenly misplaced a part that I picked up during expo last year and sheepishly phoned them, explaining what had happened. the result was that they were quick to step up and replace the part that I lost (and overnight it to me, to boot!

and while I realize that there's a fine line between the "sales pitch" of what a company publicly broadcasts and what they silently do to correct issues, there's nothing more respectable than a company that can step up and admit a mistake, flaw, whatever it may be, address it and move on for the good of the company and it's customers

hopefully stern can hire someone to do just that in creating some transparency to the public (which are obviously more collectors than operators) as well as tightening up the procedures [in house] to reduce or eliminate these issues altogether

edit:
cleaned up the 2nd sentence

It's just like a certain car manufacturer model with their 2014 transmissions. No one would buy a used one. You were stuck.

No one at the dealer or the manufacturer had a date if/when a repair would take place. "We are working on it".

Sure it would be, IF they knew exactly what the problem was, and how to fix it.

Those 2014 transmissions were only replaced at the end of 2016 when they finally figured out a workable mechanical solution - effectively 3 years latter.

I've got playfields with 3 different dates on them. One date might be the screening, one might be the clearcoating, one might be the CNCing. Sometimes the dates are 8 months apart. Super shocking.

ccwcsesc (resized).jpg

Guess the avatar is changing from toyotaboy to mazdaman

paper-shredder-takes-no-paper (resized).jpg

Do you know what type of companies ignore bad feedback ?
Shit companies !

The saddest part of this whole fiasco is it could have all been avoided with a simple phone call /email from Stern to the affected customers.
"Here is a quick update on the playfield situation. We are pretty certain we know what the issue is, steps are being taken to rectify it but we want to be really sure the issue is sorted before we ship replacement playfields. I know it seems to be dragging on but please show a little more patience and we are sure you will be happy in the end. Thank you once more for your patience and support of Stern products. "

That is all it takes. Communication.

As it stands decisions being taken at management level are damaging the superb work that gets done by the excellent staff on the coal face of technical support.

Stern. If you need a PR guy who knows how to deal with customers, I'm here all week.

if they open it and read it, then it is a win.

Your image infers that they did that before shredding it

After reading through the comments one of the things that could really hurt this petition is there are really only about 13 real playfield problems described "unless they are not stating them or adding pictures." Its not going to sway much weight when you have people signing saying they don't even own a game, they heard this is happening, not buying a game because such and such, and codes not where we think it should be.

Actually it could hurt your cause " Im not kidding "

They should be including their full name, date of purchase, distributor where it was purchased, pictures of the damage, and all dates and time's they contacted Stern with no avail. Any information staying specific to the actual issue at hand. I know your trying to get enough support, but its meaningless without documentation.

Yeah I was going to mention that a ton of people have said they signed but don't own a game, or signed because they hate that code updates have been slow.

Those people are useless in this situation and there have been a lot. Or at least they're useless if the next step is gathering plaintiffs which I've seen written "it's not" but the tone of the last several pages show it totally is.

Stern did communicate to KPG. kpg did they confirm you are in the swap program in writing? Really isn't the petition is about how long it is taking? Or do you believe they are refusing to swap your playfield after they said they would?

I believe they did communicate with him. Then nothing. Communication in this day and age is easy. No excuse for leaving people in the dark.

Seems on par because the exchange just started.... except for the terrible communication

The next question I would ask is:

Did the people that received their exchange get notified of a date in advance. Or did they just receive their box and get notified at that point ( no notice in advance ).

If the later, thats the way they are proceeding with the exchange. Not the best, but if it's consistent they are doing it so they don't have to be held to a deadline.

I got a call saying "we are shipping you a box that willl go out today". No advance warning beyond that. My distro called me, then Pat called me a few minutes later.

Sounds like the way Stern is going about this process and if its thats so........... then they are doing something about it but at their own pace and schedule.

So much outrage and can't even get 100 people to sign a petition, of which i'm one of them.

Class action? that will be another wager Kpg

See my idea in the Stern are you serious thread

How about a raise $$$ for charity Pinside event. $50k

Put together a reasonable list of what we would like to see from Stern as a pinball community

Let's f ing work together. Novel concept

If Stern agrees and comes through then we make the $50k donation or whatever it is

That might get the point across much more effectively and actually accomplish something. Working with, not against