It is a more polished turd, that's for sure.

I don't think thats quite fair to say because there hasnt been near as many problems lately as there was when GB first released. There will also be bad playfields here and there no matter what. What matters is if they fix them.

I think at these price's the problem lies with the expectation's of collectors.

Now that games have become an item that costs a small fortune collector's do consider risk of code before purchase. No one want to take 2/3k hit because of incomplete or substandard code.

Look at BW games like DW, CFTBL, and even MB

Simple straight forward code that's nothing special. Heck on MB you can see the whole game in one good session of playing

I think the main thing is that some games are being shipped so incomplete that the buyer partially worries about there " investment " or what the game could or should be then compounded by QC issues .... well the situations like this happen.

Bottom line...good or decent code can make or break a games value no matter what we think it could be When paying prices like we do we have higher expectations unlike when games were made specifically for operators

Even though JJP only produces 1 pin every two years on average now, code is NOT the issue you have to worry about with them.

I have a feeling ALL of these $9k plus pins are gonna take a dump on the secondary market. Already seeing it with loaded Hobbit's and RRWozLE's.

Great code isn't gonna save DI from going down to $7500, all 2500 of those "LE's" and possibly BM66 too, and/or any other pin that comes out hereafter.

BM66 had 80 SLE's and 240 LE's, that's it, and maybe that niche type market continues but i think we are about to enter the realm of discounting recent Nib's in a big way.

No... I'd argue that Sterns funking job. It shouldn't be up to a single developer to finish it.
Stern should PAY their engineers to finish the damn code within 3 mths. End-Of-Story. The fact they don't and we the sheeple keep buying their junk speaks volumes.

Slow down now. I may be an asshole, but I'm not a sheeple. I stopped buying the product completely.

And buyers like me will matter. I own a fairly large arcade company. I NEED to spend at least $280,000 on new arcade equipment this year for tax reasons. I really don't give a shit what I spend it on, as long as I spend it. That was the potential market Stern had in this one customer. But the reality is that earnings don't mean shit if I'm constantly getting service calls, on top of the need for monthly cleaning & service. So I refuse to purchase another NIB Stern pinball until things change.

Bottom Line: Fix the obvious lack of testing prior to release, fix the multiple poor quality issues, ship the games with complete code, needing ONLY an update or two for finishing touches, and perhaps I'll give Stern a crack at the $300,000 I'll need to spend in 2018.

I can help you spend some of that. Got a Jungle Lord available.

so there is still a chance?

Partly because you know DI won't earn shit by comparison and the PF will be destroyed like the RRWoz?

Bottom line? What does it earn

I wasn't singling a person specifically... just the human race in general.
I get that some people will buy just for the joy of buying.
But the rest of us; really need to get a clue.
the Sheeple will all forget this whole bs for about 1-2wks when Steve Richie's next game is announced. And it'll be the same problem of ghosting inserts; crap 0.23 revision code; and the people will be shocked that things haven't changed.
That makes "us" Sheeple.

I don't think we have ghosting much anymore. They seem to have gotten a handle on that for the most part. I think the biggest problem now is getting code updates out in a timely manner. Other than that things seem to be getting a little better. The Batman game definitely has some issues though.

You keep bringing up this WOZ RR that supposedly has a destroyed playfield at 10k plays. Show me the pics (not the nearly 5 year old WOZ ones either you keep posting). Maybe I should post those destroyed ACDC and ST pics again? I guess that means all ACDC and ST playfields are screwed right? No.

Now your new thing is to keep mentioning over and over the wear around a magnet on a TEST Dialed In. Really? Again, it's a TEST game.

Stern is the company with the playfield issues here Iceman, not JJP. Yes some early WOZ playfields had issues but it was JJP's first game ever and they corrected the issue over 4 years ago. Time to get over it. Stern however has been in business for 30 years and now is having a major playfield fiasco, not good.

Will this be your Batman 66 LE shortly? Since this wear happened on at least one game it will happen on all right? No.

c03394a542e40c80e57da18124c9e1b88f00f692 (resized).jpg

So how many times should I have to send my playfield in? I'm 0/2...

You should send it in as many times as it takes Stern to get it right. You never did post pics and dates of your 2nd bad playfield, why not? I would really like to see how bad it is. Please post pics and the playfield date.

THIS is the kind of statement that should make Stern shit!

I agree with you 100%. My fear is that Stern will release games more software "complete" (GOT, GB) but that they will lack the depth and character of rules found in other games. This would essentially be another form of cost cutting.

Ops that do pinball in a real way buy games in dozens.

One of the ops I service bought 12 KISS, then bought another batch of 20 a few weeks latter after he saw how it was earning.

He is not worried about dimples, he is not worried about chipping around the outhole, he is not worried about wizard modes.

All he worries about is if there are dollar bills behind the coindoor.

Remember, Stern has NO competition.

When an op goes down to the distributor with his trailer to buy games, there are only Sterns in stock.

No JJP, no CGC, no Spooky, no Heighway, nothing but Stern.

=

Remember 6 years ago when JJP was going to put Stern out of business with their **amazing quality** ?

It didn't really happen, did it?

That's only about 18 Super LE'S they don't need you... plus you probably didn't even send a video

Yeah, first and foremost, Stern needs another video campaign.

As a GB owner, if your video is selected you will then have the right to purchase a populated play field at a healthy 5% discount.

Go back and read what Extreme pinball said himself about JJP. That's his experience with his RR Woz on route.

He's not just slamming Stern, sorry to burst your JJP bubble there Panzer.

Here's an inconvenient truth for you Panzer per Extreme Pinball:

"Don't get me wrong, I've suffered my fair share of JJP failures, and plenty of them. Just today I had to pull the driver board out of a WOZECLE and replace a 540IRL transistor that shorted, which of course subsequently fried the trough VUK solenoid.
It has also been my experience that JJP playfield build & clear quality is no where near the high quality of Stern's..... until recently, of course. The playfield on my WOZ RRLE is pretty much destroyed after only 11,000 plays. Looks just like the pictures of iceman44. Mine is even worse around the 4 pop bumpers. While the playfields on my Iron Man VE at 24,000 plays, and my AC/DC Pro at 16,100 plays, always polish up like new when they get cleaned & waxed.
No comparison..... until recently, of course."

Whoops

I can't get enough of this one.

Hopefully, they get their act together soon.

Right on man! If you haven't experienced the greatNess of BW games such as TAF, MB, AFM, MM, TZ, etc.... go for it! Classics are a classic for a reason. Good luck prying robs MB off his hands, he may trade it for your jeep though

I always told you to get GOT PRO not LE; it's night and day. Code was built around the pro. But at least I gave you guys a tour of all the wizard modes in our $1 game night before he sold it lol I love GOT rules, but just like a lot of sterns - it never got the code polish it needs and still has bugs and missing call outs/sound queues I mean, you have one of the most dynamic scoring pins in history, currently in production, with some of the biggest jackpot opportunities ever to be had of any pin; you'd think they'd add some effects and sounds to those jackpots.

Not to beat a dead horse but the ink on my WOZ started chipping off at less than 300 plays. I bugged Jack to send me another PF and he sent me a reject that had dished inserts. That was the last time I bought anything from that guy.

So Kpg doesn't want to make this about Stern versus JJP and then went ahead and did it

Didn't you know James, it's all roses in JJP Lala land

Some of you guys can't seriously believe some of the stuff you throw out there!

Let's see who buys what and how many of each pin in 2017. It took me a good 3 yrs to get over the "JJP kool aid built like a tank" BS

Some of you guys are behind the curve. You'll learn

That's rich, obviously went from JJP to Stern koolaid. It's alright man, im sure your converting others into true believers like yourself.

Stick to games like Scared Stiff, ToTAN, ToM, etc.. clearly you get 'frustrated' by games that don't just lay out all the prizes for you.

You should still have had plenty of objective to go for in ST with Kobayashi Maru and the medals.. without needing to play the strategies for the level 3 awards, etc.

Yeah that's right. I buy pins I like, not because it has a more solid cab

I don't care who believes what. JJP denial runs rampant. Why rush in to buy a $9500 DI LE when they will be on sale for $7500 soon enough? It's not like they are LIMITED in any manner whatsoever

I don't get why bashing Stern makes you feel better about getting ripped off by JJP?

All in the justification I guess.

Because the game is on route. Here's a pic of my drain

IMG_5528 (resized).PNG

I guess you can't read what the route operator says?

F it nvm

Here's my drain after a couple weeks. original playfield from March. I'm on the list for a replacement, have been told it'll be coming soon. Had a number of inserts ghosting too, more notably the Storage Facility originally just after a week or so. ghosting appearing on more inserts as time goes on...

Drain (resized).jpg

I'll definitely be there!

Couldn't agree more.

Yes, but individual preference doesn't define the consensus - something that escapes you. Your comments show you don't like working towards objectives, but would rather have it more readily obtainable or at immediate reach. Hence the suggestion of games that don't require qualifying things or much effort to lite up alternate paths.

'having to shoot the away team' to qualify modes being frustrating? On TZ you still have to hit a ramp to qualify the mode start being ON and then hit the shot... which is common in most games. Mode start being available without qualifying varies in many games, but not sure why having to hit a mode start is 'frustrating'

Same 3/4" thick cabinet, same 1/2" thick playfield.

I've already glued one JJP front cabinet corner that broke apart, so I'm not seeing how it's built any tougher than any other game in the last 30 years.....

Dude I'm a good player and owned STLE for 2 years and even I agree the mission shot and away team shots can be frustrating for starting 18 missions. It's the #1 complaint about the game amongst owners. The best suggest to fix this was using fire button to unlock the vengeance shot to random start a mission.

do you even read what you type, or is it just a constant flow to your keyboard? I give two shits about who is better, I like both companies, and want both to succeed. You have crowbarred the same image and story about WOZ on numerous threads, always rebutting someones personal opinion about a game and going off on a tangent. If you aren't paid by stern you should be with the amount you run from thread to thread defending stern's play fields....you definitely deserve something for all your effort.

The other shame of it is you already see B66 premiums in the marketplace for $7k. So does that mean Stern is ripping people off like you accused JJP of? Pfft....delusional.

For the people that are having clear coat coming off at the drain hole, could a piece of Mylar be put there and stop it?

It helps but dont stop it totally....

I wonder if it would be a good idea to Mylar that area before the first game is ever played on it?

must be a socal thing.. the shots are not that difficult nor devious. If you had to complete a warp combo.. ok. But simply a wide shot to the left.. that never rejects.. or a shot to the right where you can even use the flipper to sweep the ball in?? Not stuff to moan about.

I'm blocking you now because of that scary ridiculous avatar

Pfft