(Topic ID: 312454)

Change that Art!

By MtnFrost

2 years ago


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There are 231 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 5.
-14
#1 2 years ago

I'm an artist - and artwork is a big factor in what pinball machines I like. However, as you all know, the quality of the artwork on pinball machines has varied wildly from gorgeous to butt ugly (looking at you, Flash and Genesis). Artists don't get paid enough or get valued enough. I thought it'd be fun to hear about artwork you think could have been better, and what you would have done. I'll start with Stern Big Game. These "cards" on the playfield are horrible. I would have used African shields to marry the foliage theme, and possibly sneak in stereotypical big game hunter somewhere in the jungle mix.

Remember, you have to suggest what you think would have been a better solution, so this isn't just another rant thread. Are you game? (get it?)
big game (resized).jpgbig game (resized).jpg

13
#2 2 years ago
Quoted from MtnFrost: I'll start with Williams Big Game.
[quoted image]

Big Game is not a Williams, it's a Stern.

10
#3 2 years ago

Yeah, I really don't mind those cards on Big Game.

23
#4 2 years ago
Quoted from MtnFrost:

I'm an artist...

Annnnd I'm out.

22
#5 2 years ago

I don't think it's fair to look back on artwork of the 70s/80s and declare "how it should be done differently" from a 2022 mindset.

It was a different time, with different cultural and artistic influences, which resulted in the artistic styles of that time.

A better approach might be to say "if you wanted to retheme this game today, what might you do?”

#6 2 years ago
Quoted from MattElder:

Big Game is not a Williams, it's a Stern.

Just seeing if you were reading! Yep, fixed.

#7 2 years ago

Wow, I'm always surprised by such quick negative comments. If you don't want to talk about art, then don't bother posting. Read another thread. As for the lens, if we followed that argument, nobody should look at the Mona Lisa, Rockwell, or Rembrandt or have any discussion ever about any art or illustration that wasn't created yesterday - because we are clearly going to be judging through the lens of today. I can't follow that logic.

Ask to post clips of hot girls on pins, I have yet to see someone decline to have an opinion on that art.

Also, style is something separate. Spanish Eyes was done in a certain style. The angular cartoon characters of the beatnik era were done in a certain style. Styles change, sure. But that's not what I was talking about. I was thinking about what would have made a design better - so if you aren't artistically inclined, or don't care about the art, don't respond. I have to believe there are many creative pinball collectors who have opinions about pinball art. I know I've read comments about photoshopped clipart here before.

#8 2 years ago

I'm not sure if you've seen, but Jesse Hernandez (aka Urban Aztec) recently did a reimagining of the Big Game backglass: https://www.instagram.com/p/CbF7PZtr-eH/

#9 2 years ago
Quoted from MtnFrost:

Wow, I'm always surprised by such quick negative comments.

True artists are rarely understood in their times

#10 2 years ago
Quoted from MtnFrost:

, if we followed that argument, nobody should look at the Mona Lisa, Rockwell, or Rembrandt

Well, you did sort of ask "What's wrong with the Mona Lisa, and how specifically would you fix it?"

#11 2 years ago
Quoted from RCA1:

Well, you did sort of ask "What's wrong with the Mona Lisa, and how specifically would you fix it?"

I did no such thing. I asked if you had a pin where you wish the artist had done something different.

#12 2 years ago
Quoted from CodHollandaise:

I'm not sure if you've seen, but Jesse Hernandez (aka Urban Aztec) recently did a reimagining of the Big Game backglass: https://www.instagram.com/p/CbF7PZtr-eH/

That's really cool! Thank you for sharing.

#13 2 years ago
Quoted from RCA1:

Well, you did sort of ask "What's wrong with the Mona Lisa, and how specifically would you fix it?"

Quoted from MtnFrost:

I did no such thing. I asked if you had a pin where you wish the artist had done something different.

Well...

Quoted from MtnFrost:

as you all know, the quality of the artwork on pinball machines has varied wildly from gorgeous to butt ugly (looking at you, Flash and Genesis)

Quoted from MtnFrost:

I thought it'd be fun to hear about artwork you think could have been better, and what you would have done.

10
#14 2 years ago

I see a red door and I want to paint it black!

-2
#15 2 years ago

And your point? If you don't see the difference, then I'm not explaining it well. Maybe it's an artist thing, I don't know. But it doesn't matter. I tried to offer something to the group, that's all. There are a lot of poorly drawn or poorly executed pinball artworks that weren't done well in their era, and will never be viewed as more no matter what era. Are you saying that the translite for Genesis is a "Mona Lisa" work of art? No? No urge to change it? I know people change the Flintstones to the cartoon version. And Raven has a popular alternate screen. I've seen a really nice rescreening of the Monster Bash playfield to include a wood "floor". There are some nice alternate slingshot plastics for BSM. This is what I am talking about. I've seen laser cut Flash Gordon rails, custom paint jobs for the cabinet. They are all changes to the artwork as well. I don't see why a discussion of playfield or backglass art shouldn't be a fun subject?

#16 2 years ago

I prefer the cucumber artwork.

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12
#17 2 years ago

I’m not gonna sit here and take all this Big Game art Slander!!

Gerry Simkus and Doug Watson deserve better.

#18 2 years ago

On gottlieb spring break, on the playfield, I would have put more people on the beach besides just the girl and the dog. And, of course, a new backglass/translite. Always thought that game had a good layout but the art dragged it down.

#19 2 years ago
Quoted from MtnFrost:

Wow, I'm always surprised by such quick negative comments.

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#20 2 years ago
Quoted from MtnFrost:

Artists don't get paid enough or get valued enough.

I've always felt that a free market will determine the monetary value of a skill or profession.

#21 2 years ago

So you don't think artists are appreciated enough so you tell us some things they sucked at and want us to chime in on ways they suck?

If you want to be paid handsomely for doing something you love you better be dang good at it.

#22 2 years ago
Quoted from Electronmagic:

On gottlieb spring break, on the playfield, I would have put more people on the beach besides just the girl and the dog. And, of course, a new backglass/translite. Always thought that game had a good layout but the art dragged it down.

Interesting idea - you're right, looking at the backglass, it doesn't match the playfield at all, just a photo montage. The playfield does seem pretty sparse, there's certainly room there.

#23 2 years ago
Quoted from RustyLizard:

So you don't think artists are appreciated enough so you tell us some things they sucked at and want us to chime in on ways they suck?
If you want to be paid handsomely for doing something you love you better be dang good at it.

No, I said that good artists weren't valued enough, and it shows because good artists weren't engaged. Now, I am guessing here, but I'm betting the powers that be didn't see the need to pay for a good artist. Paul Faris, Kevin O'Connor, Margaret Hudson - those are talented people. You can see the difference in art quality between the Spring Break photo montage and the pins those artists worked on? I'd like to think all those EMs out there with great backglasses could have been so much prettier with some of that artwork on the playfield, and in plastics for the upper arches instead of plain white.

My point on that were many good and great artists in the world, in illustrative and advertising markets, in every era. But certain companies apparently didn't value the contribution of the artwork to pinball games, on certain machines, and it shows.

Hopefully if you are doing something you love, you have put in the time to become good at it. True for any profession.

#24 2 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

I’m not gonna sit here and take all this Big Game art Slander!!
Gerry Simkus and Doug Watson deserve better.

OP made a big mistake picking a game with some of the best art of its era.

#25 2 years ago
Quoted from swampfire:

OP made a big mistake picking a game with some of the best art of its era.

You don't think those blank cards could have been made nicer? Blank white squares in the middle of some nice art? Cast yourself as the art director.

#26 2 years ago

Paging Aurich to talk about the letter H

#27 2 years ago

Well, I wish they would have changed the art on AC/DC to hand drawn art.

#28 2 years ago
Quoted from ectobar:

Paging Aurich to talk about the letter H

Haha yes too true...let's not let Fonts sneak by us!

#29 2 years ago
Quoted from Sinistarrett:

Well, I wish they would have changed the art on AC/DC to hand drawn art.

I've heard that in some of the forums - I think it's a good point. Photoshopped heads are a choice, but I think they could have afforded a good artist. Now I wonder if there was some contractual stipulation of their likenesses requiring photos. I would have liked to see that too - KISS got a good treatment in 1979 doing that.

-1
#30 2 years ago
Quoted from ElectroMagnetic:

I prefer the cucumber artwork. [quoted image][quoted image]

I am amazed by the amount of energy you went through to post nothing.

#31 2 years ago

I just want to know how the hell in 2022 the art on Rush happened. Have you seen the abomination that is Neil Peart on the cabinet sides?

#32 2 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

I just want to know how the hell in 2022 the art on Rush happened. Have you seen the abomination that is Neil Peart on the cabinet sides?

For some reason I can't find a good side shot of that cabinet?

#33 2 years ago

-

#34 2 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

I just want to know how the hell in 2022 the art on Rush happened. Have you seen the abomination that is Neil Peart on the cabinet sides?

And this is where this thread gets ugly.
That artist is a part of our community. You don't like it, that's fine, but abomination? Really? You don't think the band approved it?

Also, side cab art: Who cares? If you don't have pins on both sides blocking it anyway, you're doing it wrong.

10
#35 2 years ago

Artists of all ilks are temperamental. No one is ever going to agree. I think the guy above who mentioned retheming is spot on, if you prefer something different just do it! It's all personal taste.

I'm guilty of changing alot of my pins to my own custom feel, some of my friends like them , some don't.
It's just what I prefer.

Right now I'm putting an AFM together where I have modified the pf and cab art slightly. I never liked how the front corners of the cab art didn't line up or the green saucers. But I've slso radically changed machines to my own liking. Few pics below.

I will say the older games like Big Game are to me historical and should be left alone and just blinged up with chrome etc. I personally can't stand most of the modern games art packages, Stern in particular, too much happening....but some of my friends totally disagree...that's art for you!

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#36 2 years ago

I love Big Game, the game. I always thought the bingo cards seemed out of place, too. So, in my head, the bingo cards are the hunters keeping score on their big game hunts. Now, I don't mind the bingo cards, cuz I made it part of the theme.

#37 2 years ago
Quoted from chuckwurt:

I’m not gonna sit here and take all this Big Game art Slander!!
Gerry Simkus and Doug Watson deserve better.

Next he'll want to redo Doug Watson's artwork on Sterns Scramble monitor bezel.

#38 2 years ago
Quoted from transprtr4u:

I see a red door and I want to paint it black!

Someones been watching Westworld.

#39 2 years ago
Quoted from swampfire:

OP made a big mistake picking a game with some of the best art of its era.

That along with Galaxy, Stargazer and Seawitch.

#40 2 years ago
Quoted from MtnFrost:

For some reason I can't find a good side shot of that cabinet?

pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png
... and why do I keep hearing the phrase "Shoot the Pyramid" when I look at a couple of those back-glasses?

10
#41 2 years ago

I’d like see Todd shor do pin art.

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#42 2 years ago

I have no Artistic skills to have an opinion.

I can criticize, but I cant offer an alternative.
A common thing today.

So, Im a Consumer of this art, and Im happy to get, what the original Artist created,
until I am offered an Alternative that suits me.

So Basically Red and Black door for me, maybe others.

#43 2 years ago
Quoted from ectobar:

That artist is a part of our community. You don't like it, that's fine, but abomination? Really?

Why would a professional artist get a pass? We’re not talking a high school art show here.

I wish I could find a photo of it but Neil’s right arm is coming out of his hip. This isn’t subjective, it’s straight up bad. Don’t get me started on the hands, we’re talking Data East level here.

And don’t play that “side art isn’t seen” crap, if there’s one thing that Stern’s years of photoshopped crap has proven is that art matters. If Spooky can deliver amazing work like on my Ultraman, Stern has no excuse.

There is literally no excuse for bad art, especially after the amazing run Stern has had the last decade.

#44 2 years ago

Not an excuse, but an explanation: the more time pressure an artist is under, the more likely he/she will make some strange looking art. Even the best artists do it.

Also, art directors commonly make demands for changes - compositionally, to include licensed products, to add sponsored products, etc.. Current contracts often allow actors who play the characters being drawn to have right-of-refusal.

After several revisions, some originally good looking compositions get to be resented by their own artists!

That's not to say artists don't have bad days or slop through stuff sometimes....

#45 2 years ago
Quoted from girloveswaffles:

That along with Galaxy, Stargazer and Seawitch.

I love Seawitch. It's in my permanent collection, I've been told as much from my daughter - she wants it in her home.

#46 2 years ago

I don't get where people get all upset for a discussion of what could have been better? Why does that subject seem so taboo?

#47 2 years ago
Quoted from girloveswaffles:

[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
... and why do I keep hearing the phrase "Shoot the Pyramid" when I look at a couple of those back-glasses?

Thanks - I saw those pics, but you can't really see anything from that angle. I wonder why there aren't any side shots floating around the internet for this one? Too new?

-8
#48 2 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

If Spooky can deliver amazing work like on my Ultraman

I'll take any and every Stern ever produced over that garbage game

#49 2 years ago
Quoted from MtnFrost:

Are you saying that the translite for Genesis is a "Mona Lisa" work of art? No? No urge to change it?

A few people like that one just because it's just so weird and exhibits the oddity of the time period. I opted to replace mine with an the alternate translite based on the metropolis film that was floating around a number of years back.

Quoted from MtnFrost:

I don't get where people get all upset for a discussion of what could have been better? Why does that subject seem so taboo?

It's not. You just framed the question poorly.

You started out by saying artists should be valued, and then you seemed to disparage artwork of past artists, which resulted in contradictory viewpoints.

Quoted from RustyLizard:

So you don't think artists are appreciated enough so you tell us some things they sucked at and want us to chime in on ways they suck?

#50 2 years ago
Quoted from MtnFrost:

I don't get where people get all upset for a discussion of what could have been better? Why does that subject seem so taboo?

We just think your opinion sucks

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