(Topic ID: 240266)

Change my mind: Ghostbusters LE has the worst design of the modern era


By Dr_Gonzo

6 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 145 posts
  • 80 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 months ago by JodyG
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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“Change my mind: Ghostbusters LE has the worst design of the modern era”

  • Hate it 111 votes
    53%
  • Love it 98 votes
    47%

(209 votes)

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There are 145 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 3.
#101 6 months ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

There are two problems with the gap.
1. It’s wider than Pedojohn’s normal gap. A friend from Stern told me this was a mistake, but was caught too late to change. (There goes the great design theory)
2. Design elements like gaps don’t exist in a vacuum. It has to take into account the rest of the design & the game’s rules. Most of Pedojohn’s earlier games had simple rules and easier layouts...like Congo, for example. Even with the gap, Congo’s not that hard to keep a game going - and even you aren’t good at it, the rules are very simple (collect the diamonds, pretty much). So a a bigger gap on a pin like that is fine. With Goatf****rs’ other punishing design elements & linear multi-mode ruleset, the extra wide gap is just purely poorly planned design. On top of that - once Dwight knew how the game played, he should have designed the rules to work better with a brutal gameplay design. He didn’t, and unfortunately that made the game worse.

I heard the same thing on the mistake not being caught. Without the Carrot flippers I would hate this game . the longer flippers help but should have been designed with normal gap.

I know the magna slings people don't like, but it fits well with this game as it's like a Ghost stealing your ball. It's my wife's favorite so it's not going anywhere.

With regards to coding....correct, Dwight needs to redo it. I haven't and won't buy another Stern game and I have 4 of them.

#102 6 months ago
Quoted from JodyG:

I'm aware of the carrot flipper mod, but I'm wondering how much a slightly longer flipper would alter the shot geometry.

Quite a bit. I played one with carrot flippers and it was harder than my standard game at home. Every shot felt like it was in the wrong place, so to speak. I'm sure if you played carrot flippers exclusively you'd adjust your shotmaking and end up with an easier playing game.

#103 6 months ago

Not only is the design a drag, but it had the worst quality-control too. From ghosting playfields to splitting cabinets along with Stern’s excuses, the game is a POS. Seems to fit since the designer is an even bigger POS.

Quoted from KYLEDM5:

I'd have to say I like GB more than Houdini. That game does nothing for me. The couple gimmicks of Houdini wore off very fast and it just feels like a clunky, dull game. GB is not much better, but the theme is of course its saving grace.

Stern seems to get most of the best licenses and then proceeds to squander 80% of them with sub-par games.

#104 6 months ago

I have my carrot flippers lower than the setting on a normal Pinball as that's how they have it designed from factory....Don't know if I raised it to a normal position if it would make the shots harder to hit.

#105 6 months ago

I don't know if it is worse than Houdini but I never cared for it. Seemed clunky and the scoring was impossible to figure out (at least on location with a few bucks to spend).

#106 6 months ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Welcome to 2016, Dr. Gonzo.
I almost got run out of here with torches and pitchforks for declaring that this is the worst game ever made in the history of the known universe.
Speaking of torches, I'll pass my torch of being the "GB sucks" guy to you...ENJOY! Wonder if you'll get as many boots 'n bans as I did...lol.

I wondered when you would find this magical happy place.

Quoted from iceman44:

The arguments are so stupid its beyond belief. Yet we see all kinds of "fake pinball news" these days.
Go buy a Family Guy or some other horrible pin.

Cold, I see were you got your name

#107 6 months ago
Quoted from 3pinballs:

I have my carrot flippers lower than the setting on a normal Pinball as that's how they have it designed from factory....Don't know if I raised it to a normal position if it would make the shots harder to hit.

I think if you make the flippers in line with the guide, it would make the right scoop darn near impossible to hit.

#108 6 months ago
Quoted from usandthem:

Not only is the design a drag, but it had the worst quality-control too. From ghosting playfields to splitting cabinets along with Stern’s excuses, the game is a POS. Seems to fit since the designer is an even bigger POS.

Stern seems to get most of the best licenses and then proceeds to squander 80% of them with sub-par games.

Yup

11
#109 6 months ago

On the other hand isn't it Stern's best seller?

Anyway - some positives as we are supposed to be changing the guy's mind people (It's in the title of the thread!):

1. Great Art. Frankly, unbelievably great art in a licensed theme. Can you imagine the PF plastered with clip art photos of the ghost buster actors?
2. A lot of innovation and toys. People complain that stern doesn't innovate or include toys and then when they do all the people do is bitch about the toys and innovation.

A parital list:
A. Holographic toy showing ghosts. How awesome is that, it even fits the theme unlike DI.
B. Subways. It's one of the features people missed most on newer sterns. Ghostbusters has one!
C. Magna slings. Talk about innovation. They redesigned one of Pinballs oldest mechs to act like a ghost is playing with the ball. Who could hate on this?
D. A moving slimer toy that pops in and out of play. No mick on a stick here.
E. playfield pop ups. Fits the theme perfectly too!
F. Captive/newton balls that behave in a cool way.
G. A completely original layout.

Worst design? -- more like the most innovative and theme integrated design Stern has ever put out. Well, better than Avengers at least (disclaimer: I've never played the Avengers).

#110 6 months ago
Quoted from usandthem:

Not only is the design a drag, but it had the worst quality-control too. From ghosting playfields to splitting cabinets along with Stern’s excuses, the game is a POS. Seems to fit since the designer is an even bigger POS.

Stern seems to get most of the best licenses and then proceeds to squander 80% of them with sub-par games.

Yes like Star Wars. The most epic theme.

-4
#111 6 months ago

I can only assume this is someone from the Goatf***ing dimension, some cultist who loves horrible games and hates amazing games. Whatevs, that's the unfortunate reality of our world now...we're divided by people with no facts and horrible ideas. Makes sense that pinball became polarized as well. Goatf****rs is the red hat of games.

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#112 6 months ago
Quoted from iloveplywood:

2. A lot of innovation and toys. People complain that stern doesn't innovate or include toys and then when they do all the people do is bitch about the toys and innovation.

What toys? Booger on a string is the only toy. Plastic molds like Stay Puft & containment unit are just molds that don't do anything. Decorations, not actual pinball toys.

Quoted from iloveplywood:

C. Magna slings. Talk about innovation. They redesigned one of Pinballs oldest mechs to act like a ghost is playing with the ball. Who could hate on this?

Innovation without fun is pointless. Who could hate on this? Everyone who's ever had the stupid f*cking slings just whirl the ball and drop it down the 10 foot gap.

Quoted from iloveplywood:

D. A moving slimer toy that pops in and out of play. No mick on a stick here.

Booger on a string. Why is that better? Mick on a stick was far more satisfying to hit & had better rules attached to it.

Quoted from iloveplywood:

E. playfield pop ups. Fits the theme perfectly too!

Drop targets. Been done before and better. Other games don't fling the ball over the flippers and STDM.

Quoted from iloveplywood:

G. A completely original layout.

Doesn't matter if it plays like trash.

Quoted from iloveplywood:

Worst design? -- more like the most innovative and theme integrated design Stern has ever put out. Well, better than Avengers at least (disclaimer: I've never played the Avengers).

I mean, this right here....what else is there to say. Someone saying something definitively without experience or evidence.

I HAVE played Avengers...actually owned one, and while like GB it's a shitshow out of the box, once dialed in, it's a much better game. Not a great game...it's basically Monster Bash that gets easier as you progress since everything becomes a multiball...but I had many fun & satisfying games on it. Avenger's biggest design problem is - strangely - the slings! The wood holes that the sling switches poke through are smaller than most games, so the switch actually hits the wood and BENDS back....and I tried a million things to stop this from happening and just couldn't. Due to this design flaw, Avengers will lose sling sensitivity after a handful of games. The worst aspect of its design that doesn't really get mentioned.

#113 6 months ago

I love the Ghostbusters layout because its unique as well as fun. Two scoop shots, two captive balls, large steel ramp that drops balls under the playfield into a subway lock or comes out the other side, challenging right ramp shot, and the magna slings that interact with the ball in a lot of cool ways.

Ghostbusters is my favorite modern Stern playfield layout. Just the code needs to be completed at this point... Theres much more to pinball then two standard ramps and 2 orbits.

10
#114 6 months ago

Typical GB thread...

(hater) whah, whah, whah...right ramp
(lover) gush, gush gush...shorter post

(hater) whah, whah, whah...airballs
(lover) gush, gush, gush...protector

(hater) whah, whah, whah...SDTM
(lover) gush, gush, gush...adjust

(hater) whah, whah, whah...Scoleri Bros
(lover) gush, gush, gush...risk/reward

(hater) whah, whah, whah...magna slings
(lover) gush, gush, gush...theme integration

(hater) whah, whah, whah...flipper gap
(lover) gush, gush, gush...play better

Bottom line is to make up your own damn mind. You can see the polarized opinions of this game. I'm sure that you knew them before you created the thread. These same Pinsiders (me included) have made the same comments in a hundred different GB threads. No one is going to change anything. You either love it or hate it. Play it on location and take your chances with setup. Buy it and set it up however you want. Or do neither...we'll eagerly await your updated review and our next chance to cut and paste our GB opinions. (kinda)

#115 6 months ago
Quoted from jawjaw:

The difference is not necessarily skill but exploiting unbalanced scoring opportunities.

I disagree. There is no luck in bangin' out a huge score on GB. You need to know what to do, how to do it, and have the ball under control. For whatever reason you can't make that happen, is purely in the hands of the player.

Quoted from TommyNYC:

Is it true what they say about him?

Unfortunately, yes. All of it is true, and more.

Quoted from jawjaw:

If you have a large score, it can inflate your points with no effort. Anyone can do it but takes the fun out of high scores imo.

When the pressure is on, anyone can miss the easiest shot. I blew a number of easy skill shots which cost me a ton of points. Bad bounce into a scoop that I didn't want, screwing up the skill shot exploit, etc.

Quoted from JodyG:

but I'm wondering how much a slightly longer flipper would alter the shot geometry

Hurts the angles of all the shots dramatically. The edge you gain by going back to normal gap, you lose with poor(er) shot geometry. It'll take a long time to readjust.

#116 6 months ago
Quoted from sethi_i:

You either love it or hate it.

And there you have it.

/thread

#117 6 months ago

It's one of our families favorite. Excellent theme, excellent art, fun layout and something different. I agree the code could use updating but it's just a fun pin. My wife thinks it's the easiest pin in the house.

#118 6 months ago
Quoted from yzfguy:

You're welcome to put some time on mine, the only ramp that he's an occasional rollback is the right one.

Don't tempt me to take you up on that...not sure how close your area of Jersey is to me though, haha.

#119 6 months ago
Quoted from PinDoctor82:

Don't tempt me to take you up on that...not sure how close your area of Jersey is to me though, haha.

You're about an hour and a half. Come on over!

#120 6 months ago
Quoted from sethi_i:

Typical GB thread...
(hater) whah, whah, whah...right ramp
(lover) gush, gush gush...shorter post
(hater) whah, whah, whah...airballs
(lover) gush, gush, gush...protector
(hater) whah, whah, whah...SDTM
(lover) gush, gush, gush...adjust
(hater) whah, whah, whah...Scoleri Bros
(lover) gush, gush, gush...risk/reward
(hater) whah, whah, whah...magna slings
(lover) gush, gush, gush...theme integration
(hater) whah, whah, whah...flipper gap
(lover) gush, gush, gush...play better
Bottom line is to make up your own damn mind. You can see the polarized opinions of this game. I'm sure that you knew them before you created the thread. These same Pinsiders (me included) have made the same comments in a hundred different GB threads. No one is going to change anything. You either love it or hate it. Play it on location and take your chances with setup. Buy it and set it up however you want. Or do neither...we'll eagerly await your updated review and our next chance to cut and paste our GB opinions. (kinda)

Why are you here then? There are hundreds of other threads waiting for you. I personally enjoy debating about specific machines, and I haven't participated in those other threads.

#121 6 months ago

You know what we need?
We need someone to start a Ghostbusters vs. Munsters thread! That should get everybody riled up. Lol.

I completely understand why people absolutely hate this game but for most of those same reasons I absolutely love the game.
Go figure.
Hey it's pinball, it's a lot better than talking about work. Just sayin.

#122 6 months ago
Quoted from Tranquilize:

Why are you here then? There are hundreds of other threads waiting for you. I personally enjoy debating about specific machines, and I haven't participated in those other threads.

Don't get me wrong. I love this game, and I love talking about it too. My point is that when it comes to GB emotions run strong. Every argument has a rebuttal, but swaying a hater to a lover is just as difficult as doing the reverse. GB is really two games and has two personalities.

It's virtually unplayable out of the box. Is that a design flaw? Yes. Should a game play right when you buy it? Yes. But are all of the issues fixable? Yes. On location, most of these issues go unadjusted. In the home it just takes time and a little additional expense. Once that's done, it's an amazing game.

But not everything people hate is a flaw, and not everything people hate can be "fixed". The magna-slings are a great example. Have I had an amazing game torpedoed by them? More than once. Do I hate them? No. Because I can just hit start and go again. On location, or in competition, that isn't an option.

On my machine I've tweaked and adjusted to the point that I've been one mode away from finishing the game more than once. And that's with stock flippers, no center post, and factory settings (except replay gives an extra ball). Is that story going to change anyone's mind? Sadly, no.

#123 6 months ago

All that negativity about the Magna slings. In JJPOTC the disc throws the ball also STDM, in TRON the disc does so sometimes, it is part of the game. The magna slings are i.m.h.o. great fitting the theme like the disc in Tron. I do not mind the occasional STDM. The lane hopping is indeed strange, but can be fixed. Again once dailed in correct, this is a great game. I never played this on location but could imagine that is not easy, but then again Star wars on location is no fun either!

#124 6 months ago
Quoted from PeterG:

All that negativity about the Magna slings. In JJPOTC the disc throws the ball also STDM, in TRON the disc does so sometimes, it is part of the game. The magna slings are i.m.h.o. great fitting the theme like the disc in Tron.

False equivalency. Tron’s disc is at the top of the playfield. The player shoots it on purpose. When the ball comes down, you can react. You also have a normal gap. Manga sling is right by the flippers, stops the ball dead center in the middle of the huge gap, and just drains. It’s a bullshit, poorly conceived feature. Clear example of “wouldn’t this be cool?” vs. “would this be functional or fun?”

#125 6 months ago

I find it amusing that Stern gets bashed for doing new things like the magna-slings in this thread, while simultaneously getting bashed in other threads for not innovating enough.

#126 6 months ago

Not that it matters, but I personally love the game - it’s in my top 5. It has the “one more game” feeling that I love because it’s brutal like some of my favorite early solid state Bally’s. And one of the best themes in pinball to date.

That’s the beauty of the hobby - something for everyone!

#127 6 months ago
Quoted from thirdedition:

I find it amusing that Stern gets bashed for doing new things like the magna-slings in this thread, while simultaneously getting bashed in other threads for not innovating enough.

They are not going to make everyone happy no matter what they release. So they just keep on making a varied list of game options. The giant stack of BKSOR pro's getting opened for MGC shows just how successful they are right now.

#128 6 months ago

Ok Who Brought the Dog?

#129 6 months ago
Quoted from jgentry:

They are not going to make everyone happy no matter what they release. So they just keep on making a varied list of game options. The giant stack of BKSOR pro's getting opened for MGC shows just how successful they are right now.

Oh I totally get that. I don't love every game they make, but I also don't feel like they've made or programmed the worst games of all time.

#130 6 months ago

I've been the victim of a SDTM more times from hitting the 'Slimer' target to spell G-H-O-S-T than I have from the magna-slings grabbing the ball, whirling it around, then throwing it SDTM. Does it suck, sure, but that's pinball.

I've suffered a SDTM drain on almost any pin I play, some more than others. The ball has to go somewhere, and usually there are only 3 places on a playfield that it can drain. SDTM drains have been plaguing players long before GB hit the scene.

Easiest solution: hit the start button and flip another game.

#131 6 months ago
Quoted from JodyG:

I'm aware of the carrot flipper mod, but I'm wondering how much a slightly longer flipper would alter the shot geometry. Another reason for the brutality is the angle of the slingshots. They are steeper than usual, which leads so some for power drains in the out lanes.

It doesn't change the shot geometry at all for the shots that are already being played. You make the same shot from the same distance on the flipper. Example; to make shot X you are shooting the ball when it gets 2.5 inches down the flipper. Doesn't matter if it's a 3" flipper or a 4" flipper. it's still the same shot 2.5" down the flipper. You are not moving the position of the flipper, just making it longer. Also, the carrot flipper is the same thickness as a regular flipper. The added length is just narrower.
On the other hand, now you have a little extra flipper to make new shots you didn't have before.

#132 6 months ago

Well I for one like to talk about Ghostbusters. The layout is good, but I really like the rules, with the three ladders and all that. I like the way you start scenes with the skill shot. It‘s one of the few Sterns with humor. I mean c‘mon - mass hysteria multiball is hysterical. And the scoring is so unbalanced it is funny - but in a positive way. I like the pro way better than the premium - I don‘t like the clunky metal ramp and the ecto glasses - they block the view. I also like the right ramp on the pro much better - getting more points by hitting it up the ramp higher - like Diner. I do like the magnaslings, though. GB reminds me a bit of BSD - games can be short and your finger is itching to hit the start button again. The music in GB is exceptional. The animations are great - I kind of prefer these to the lcd displays. I would buy a GB pro if it wouldn‘t be based on Spike.

How did I do - I hit some of the contentious points, right?

#133 6 months ago
Quoted from DruTheFu:

Easiest solution: hit the start button and flip another game.

Never. Not into self torture.

#134 6 months ago

I don't know what that crazy chick is going on about,but my Magna-slings very rarely cancel each other out and drop it down the middle. It's not even really a thing.

#135 6 months ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

False equivalency. Tron’s disc is at the top of the playfield. The player shoots it on purpose. When the ball comes down, you can react. You also have a normal gap. Manga sling is right by the flippers, stops the ball dead center in the middle of the huge gap, and just drains. It’s a bullshit, poorly conceived feature. Clear example of “wouldn’t this be cool?” vs. “would this be functional or fun?”

Frankly most of his games were poorly conceived, he only got lucky 3 times, Creech, Congo and Dredd.

#136 6 months ago
Quoted from kvan99:

Frankly most of his games were poorly conceived, he only got lucky 3 times, Creech, Congo and Dredd.

Oh c'mon, that's a bit revisionist - how about Spirit, Alien Star, TX-Sector, Robo-War...

#137 6 months ago
Quoted from kvan99:

Frankly most of his games were poorly conceived, he only got lucky 3 times, Creech, Congo and Dredd.

You're being generous. I say he got lucky once. Congo. lol

#138 6 months ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

You're being generous. I say he got lucky once. Congo. lol

I was with you up untill the point where you disrespected THE LAW...!

#139 6 months ago

Ghostbusters Premium/LE is a lot of wasted potential. I still like the game, but they HAVE TO FIX THE CODE. I like the challenging layout. I think the layout is actually amazing, especially that right ramp. There's nothing wrong with the physical design, it's just very challenging.

Honestly, Ghostbusters is a better designed machine than Star Wars, Deadpool (most valuable shot is a mistake and the right ramp sucks), and The Munsters. But the code is just holding the game back so much, and it's really dickish of Stern not to update the game, because they sold a ton of Ghostbusters machines and they really need to finish the game up. It's not just about the missing mode, there are bad bugs and scoring imbalances that really mess with the experience of the game.

If they could fix up the code, Ghostbusters would be a fine machine. It will always be difficult, but it has a lot of potential.

#140 6 months ago
Quoted from FrederikFrost:

I was with you up untill the point where you disrespected THE LAW...!

LOL, actually Dredd is a pretty cool machine...I could just never really get into it. The physical design IS pretty bonkers...it's really like a theme park under glass with the amount of crazy stuff going on.

#141 6 months ago
Quoted from toddsolus:

I don't know what that crazy chick is going on about,but my Magna-slings very rarely cancel each other out and drop it down the middle. It's not even really a thing.

This. I think in two years that has happened a half dozen times. The slings usually play catch with each other and it's amusing.

#142 6 months ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

LOL, actually Dredd is a pretty cool machine...I could just never really get into it. The physical design IS pretty bonkers...it's really like a theme park under glass with the amount of crazy stuff going on.

And it's the undisputed best 1400$ game

#143 6 months ago
Quoted from kvan99:

Frankly most of his games were poorly conceived, he only got lucky 3 times, Creech, Congo and Dredd.

Don't forget Robowar!

#144 6 months ago
Quoted from FrederikFrost:

And it's the undisputed best 1400$ game

Hey, Dredd was an $800 game all day long back when I was snappin' up pins off CL all the time!

#145 6 months ago
Quoted from arcademojo:

It doesn't change the shot geometry at all for the shots that are already being played. You make the same shot from the same distance on the flipper. Example; to make shot X you are shooting the ball when it gets 2.5 inches down the flipper. Doesn't matter if it's a 3" flipper or a 4" flipper. it's still the same shot 2.5" down the flipper. You are not moving the position of the flipper, just making it longer. Also, the carrot flipper is the same thickness as a regular flipper. The added length is just narrower.
On the other hand, now you have a little extra flipper to make new shots you didn't have before.

I think I may fab up a new flipper mount rod setup and make new flipper bats to get them to the same gap as Guardians of the Galaxy and see how it plays. Might be an interesting experiment.

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