(Topic ID: 342873)

Champion Pub - Lighting Troubleshooting - [Resolved]

By CelticKnot

10 months ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 16 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 months ago by PinRetail
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

You

Linked Games

#1 10 months ago

I've been upgrading lighting in my Champion Pub and have run into a few issues as I get deeper into the project; hoping for a little guidance from the journeymen and women.

GI:
When I power on the game, some of the lights in the backbox come on and stay on. According to the manual this is (partially) expected. Strings 4 and 5 are always on, while string 3 is dimmable (and behaves as expected during tests). String 5, however, doesn't work at all. I know it's string 5 from the color codes (WHT-VIO/VIO) provided in the test menu. I don't see any obviously blown fuses on the A/V board but that's only after a cursory glance. Wires look good; I don't see any breaks. I did a continuity test on both wires in the backbox from the wiring harness to the end of the runs and got tone and almost 0 ohms on the multimeter. What troubleshooting steps should I take next? Could a bad socket impact the entire string? I'm going to look through the manual to see if I can find anything helpful. Will also test continuity from the other side of the harness to the AV board on those same wires.

Flashers:
Flashers work while playing the game, but not during test mode; neither the ones in the main cabinet nor the ones in the backbox. I guess I won't complain about that but it seems odd. Thoughts?

Individual Lights:
I have one light not working in the side targets. Replaced the bulb but it still doesn't work. Will look for loose wires, but this is one of those where you remove the socket from the insert, put the wedge in the socket and push the socket back in the insert and twist. Bad socket perhaps?

#2 10 months ago
Quoted from CelticKnot:

Flashers:
Flashers work while playing the game, but not during test mode; neither the ones in the main cabinet nor the ones in the backbox. I guess I won't complain about that but it seems odd. Thoughts?

High power interlock on coin door enabled when you test them ?

LTG : )

#3 10 months ago
Quoted from LTG:

High power interlock on coin door enabled when you test them ?
LTG : )

Ah... I didn't know the flashers were high power. The manual only says the solenoid type is "Flasher", which to me didn't scream high power. So yes, I had the coin door open while running through the tests. I guess that would explain it.

Any thoughts about my dead light string GI issue?

#4 10 months ago
Quoted from CelticKnot:

Any thoughts about my dead light string GI issue?

Fuses look good - pull and check with a meter. AV board - GI is all on lower left corner area of driver board. Pull and check fuses, check for burned connector there or at transformer.

https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php/Williams_WPC#General_Illumination_Problems

LTG : )

#5 10 months ago

Thanks for the link, LTG. Sounds like I've got some detective work ahead of me.

#6 10 months ago

Well, I popped the fuse for string 5 and tested it, fuse is good after multimeter continuity test. I didn't see any burned connectors, and when I stuck the leads of the multimeter in the female end of the connector that connects the power board to the backbox, I got 6.9V across WHT-VIO/VIO. String 4 (which is also always on) registered 7.1V across WHT-GRN/GRN. So it seems I'm getting power to at least the connector.

The connector itself seems fine (no burns, pins look good), so I'm unsure of where to go from here. Is there a method for testing lamp sockets to make sure one of them isn't causing an issue? I successfully tested continuity from the male end of the connector to the end of the light string run but I'm not sure electricity wasn't finding another path because I was doing something incorrectly.

#7 10 months ago
Quoted from CelticKnot:

Is there a method for testing lamp sockets to make sure one of them isn't causing an issue?

Measure power to them. Try and narrow down. No power - the other way. Power - then bad socket or bad bulb.

LTG : )

#8 10 months ago

Well... it was all bad bulbs (or bulb issues?). I tested every socket with the DMM and got 6.8V. Turns out the entire batch of bulbs I got from Comet the other day had issues. 46/75 are not working, and that's just the 3 25-packs I've gone through so far. I thought maybe it was the socket but I'd pop 2 or 3 more in and the 3rd one would work right away. Anyone else have an experience like this?

Before I contact Comet, is there something I can do to make sure the bulbs are in fact bad? I bent the wires out a little on a few of them to see if the socket might not be making good contact to no avail. Less than a 50% success rate seems pretty bad but they have a great name here on Pinside so I want to make sure it's not an issue with how I'm trying to install.

#9 10 months ago
Quoted from CelticKnot:

is there something I can do to make sure the bulbs are in fact bad?

Test them. Try a socket where they work, a separate power source. Any chance the LEDs you got are polarized and work in one direction but not the other ?

LTG : )

#10 10 months ago

I did all that... turned them 180 degrees in the same socket, tried them in different sockets... I'd put a known working one into a different socket and a working bulb kept working no matter the socket or orientation. The non-working bulbs wouldn't work no matter which socket or orientation. Kind of disappointing to see so many were bad right out of the bag. I'm going to contact them and see if they have any ideas for me otherwise I'll be returning quite a number of bulbs.

As always, thanks for the input.

#11 10 months ago

Also, apologies for wasting your time on these non-issues. I had assumed a new batch of bulbs would work right out of the bag. I am taking my issues to the vendor.

The high-power flasher thing is a learning experience for me.

#12 10 months ago
Quoted from CelticKnot:

Also, apologies for wasting your time on these non-issues.

No apology necessary.

Once you get it sorted out, please post the results. To help others.

LTG : )

#13 10 months ago
Quoted from LTG:

No apology necessary.
Once you get it sorted out, please post the results. To help others.
LTG : )

I intend to. I was recommended this vendor (Comet) by several Pinside members and and as a result spent a lot of money with this vendor. Given the 60% failure rate right out the bag, I'm not happy.

Again, I have tested the brand new, straight-out-of-the-bag bulbs I feel that are bad in known working sockets. I have good voltage on all sockets with a DMM test. Turn an unworking bulb 180 degrees in the socket and it still doesn't work. Stick a known working bulb in the same socket and we have light no matter the orientation.

I don't feel I should have to do QA for the vendor. I have sent an email, we'll see what I get back. Right now I am extremely unhappy with the product I received. The ones that work, work great.

If it's user error I'll freely admit it but I really don't see what I could be doing wrong given all the data and testing above.

#14 10 months ago
Quoted from CelticKnot:

I don't feel I should have to do QA for the vendor.

Comet is good people. They may have gotten a bad batch and you stumbled into it.

LTG : )

#15 10 months ago
Quoted from CelticKnot:

If it's user error I'll freely admit it...

And it did turn out to be user error. Mea culpa.

I emailed Comet and they replied giving me some tips to make the finicky wedges work. I took their advice and most of the bulbs I thought were bad actually worked. For those who may not know this, bending the wires out on the wedges and at a slight diagonal towards the outside of the wedge will greatly improve chances of making good contact with the socket.

Sorry all for the previous rant; as you can see I am still learning about pinball repair. Maybe if someone else reads this they'll try the tips above.

To summarize my "issues" above:
1. GI not working in the backbox - Comet bulbs were fine and it was just installation method.
2. Flashers don't work in test mode: High power interlock was disengaged due to open coin door
3. Side target light - see point #1.

Also a tip I can share for bulb installation in a WPC backbox is to remove the backbox assembly, take the glass off, then reinstall the backbox assembly w/o glass so you have easy access to all the bulbs. Install the bulbs with the power on. Makes validating bulbs so much faster and easier. The pros almost certainly know this but I had to learn it for myself.

Quoted from LTG:

Comet is good people. They may have gotten a bad batch and you stumbled into it.
LTG : )

Nope. Just dumbassery on my part. I will say this though... I learned a LOT about my game from this situation. And yes, Comet is good people.

Thanks to LTG for the guidance.

#16 10 months ago

Trying to put LEDs into a game that was made for bulbs is going to be a challenge. When I pick up a game that someone has put LEDs into I'll frequently restore it to bulbs.

I'm glad you figured out that the pins on the LEDs need to be carefully set to make connections in the bulb sockets. Those sockets weren't made for LEDs.

And this is in line with my favorite pinball problem...

(All eight bulbs are connected to the yellow wire...)

(spends half an hour troubleshooting the yellow wire...)

(ends up replacing eight individual light bulbs that were bad!)

(Grins)

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
$ 89.99
Lighting - Led
Lighted Pinball Mods
 
$ 54.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
7,000 (Firm)
Machine - For Sale
West Chester, PA
From: $ 209.00
From: $ 64.95
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
PinSound
 
From: $ 1.25
Playfield - Other
Rocket City Pinball
 
$ 27.50
Boards
Pinball Haus
 
$ 9.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
From: $ 5.99
Playfield - Plastics
The Pinball Scientist
 
From: $ 649.95
Lighting - Led
Pin Stadium Pinball Mods
 
From: $ 27.00
Boards
KAHR.US Circuits
 
$ 89.99
Lighting - Led
Lighted Pinball Mods
 
From: $ 9.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
 

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.