(Topic ID: 175298)

Champion Pub jab ramps will open but wont close?

By Crispin

7 years ago


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  • 18 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by PM_Jeremy
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#1 7 years ago

Hoping someone here has run across this problem. I'm trying to help my friend with his Champion Pub jab ramps. When the fight is started the ramps wont shut closed so you can access the scoops. I tested the left and right ramp solenoids and they don't fire in test mode. When watching them try to activate they move the slightest bit but that's it. Both coils are receiving power. The switches 61 and 62 for scoops up and optos 36 and 38 are register properly in test mode. The L and R low power drive transistors Q44 and Q48 for the scoop holds have a resistance reading of .420 and the L and R scoop high power drive transistors Q71 and Q67 are registering .620. I checked the switch connector at J133 and no burn marks or corrosion same at J208 I also removed and inspected J205,J206 and J212. He has a new opto board in the game and the connectors all look good.

I'm not familiar with the rules of the game but when we manually closed the ramps and then started a game I remember the right ramp opening at some point. My friend really can't remember if the ramps ever went down so I checked the setting for scoops disabled and it was reading off (factory setting). Just out of desperation I changed it to on to see if I didn't understand the game and maybe now the ramps would work. Yeah right! Nice try. I changed her back to the original setting of off and hoped that maybe the issue would be resolved. Nope.

So it looks like the problem solenoids are 9 and 10, (the Left and right scoop holds,) the low power coils that pulls the plunger in to lower the ramp flaps to the playfield. My friend asked someone else he knew with a champion pub to take a pic of the coils to make sure they are wired up correctly and his coils match the picture. When moving the plungers in the coils up and down they move smoothly. I'm hoping someone can point me in the right direction or tell me what I missed. I should probably have him post a pic of his coils wired up. I'm running out the door for a few hours but will check back as soon as I get home. Thanks in advance.

#2 7 years ago

Those ramps should come down during any fights. Start a fight and see if they come down

#3 7 years ago

Hey Gnatty thanks for the response. The ball dropping in the saucer will start a fight but the ramps won't come down.

#4 7 years ago

Manually ground the transistors that control those coils and see if they work.

#5 7 years ago

Thanks Gnatty I'll have him try that and report back.

#6 7 years ago

I was helping a Pinsider out earlier this year with the same problem..which I think was in your area. The last communication I had with him...and from the pictures we exchanged...it looked like both coils were wired backwards. He had mentioned that the game ramps never worked since he got it.

Check the wiring on those coils. If I remember correctly they are 3 lug coils. If they are wired backwards..you probably took out the transistor also.

#7 7 years ago

Thanks Monster Bash I'll have him post a pic. He said he had compared them to the pic someone else had sent him and they matched.

#8 7 years ago

Probably the same guy.

Here's how the ramp coil works:

There's a high power side of the coil..that lifts the ramp. There's a switch to tell the MPU if the ramp is down (switch closed = down). Once the ramp is lifted with the high power side of the coil..and the switch contact is broken...the hold side of the coil should take over. Just like a flipper coil. I think the center post also used the same coil

My best guess is the reason you are seeing the little 'twitch' is because the high power..and hold wires are reversed. The 'hold' side would have enough power to move the ramp slightly..but not extend the ramp all the way up

I think he might have fixed the wiring..but not the transistors?

Another possibly is the switch on the coil is bad...plugged into the wrong spot..etc. It could be telling the MPU the ramp is already up..and only firing the hold side?

Quoted from Crispin:

Thanks Monster Bash I'll have him post a pic. He said he had compared them to the pic someone else had sent him and they matched.

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#9 7 years ago

Thanks so much MBash! I was working all day/night trying to make a deadline for tomorrow. I'll give Scott a call tomorrow and let him know.

#10 7 years ago

Hopefully today I will check out the wiring again and post the results. I do appreciate all the help from people who I hardly know. I am not handy with a multi-meter. It has been a busy last two years and still getting bad news about a close friend. I am looking forward to getting everything back on track and enjoying pinball and my life again. Chris has been a great help and if MB is the guy I contacted in the past from Long Island I do appreciate your help as well. The next couple of days is going to be busy and I hope I will have some answers to a lot of things.
Thanks

1 week later
#11 7 years ago

After last weekend being so busy, I finally can post a few pictures of the left and right coils in my machine. Looking at my coils compared to the other coil posted, my coils look like they are missing a spring(s) and look upside down(reversed). Where the coil wiring is on the other coil compared to mine does not look correct. Can those springs get ordered?

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#12 7 years ago

Hi Scott, I checked the Solenoid Flasher table in the manual and the coils 9 and 10 for the lower power scoop hold list the drive color wire as BRN/BLK for the coil 9 the left scoop hold and BRN/RED for the right scoop hold. I thought the drive wire hooks up to the smaller wire on the winding lugs. Can you post the pic that your friend sent you of his coils. I remember when looking at your manual all the diagrams were missing in the ipdb manual. Could it just be a matter of the purple wire in the middle of both coils getting switched with BRN/BLK so the 2 drive color wires are on the thin windings of the coil? Anyone?

#13 7 years ago

I will check that out hopefully tomorrow, but look at Monster Bash's coil picture compared to my coil pictures. His coil has a spring between the "c" clip and the wires attached to the coil. My coils are missing the springs in between "c" clip and where it is wired. His coil in the picture looks like it is reversed compared to my coils and the three wires are at the opposite end of the coil compared to my coils. Not 100% sure, but looking at the diagram in the manual on page 2-30 I think the coils are reversed, missing the spring and the first and third wires have to be switched once the coil gets flipped and a spring installed. The guy that I bought the machine off of before me must have replaced those coils, left out the spring(s). I must have never paid attention to the left and right ramps not working in the middle of the fight section of the game. It's late and hopefully tomorrow I can work on it. In the diagram it shows a two wire coil, but it is supposed to be a three wire coil, but the part number for the coils match. Thanks Chris.

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#14 7 years ago

Yeah.. looking at the pics there's a few things wrong..I think you nailed them all

-Missing spring
-Coil installed backwards
-Brown wire and red wire reversed

Quoted from bigchief99:

I will check that out hopefully tomorrow, but look at Monster Bash's coil picture compared to my coil pictures. His coil has a spring between the "c" clip and the wires attached to the coil. My coils are missing the springs in between "c" clip and where it is wired. His coil in the picture looks like it is reversed compared to my coils and the three wires are at the opposite end of the coil compared to my coils. Not 100% sure, but looking at the diagram in the manual on page 2-30 I think the coils are reversed, missing the spring and the first and third wires have to be switched once the coil gets flipped and a spring installed. The guy that I bought the machine off of before me must have replaced those coils, left out the spring(s). I must have never paid attention to the left and right ramps not working in the middle of the fight section of the game. It's late and hopefully tomorrow I can work on it. In the diagram it shows a two wire coil, but it is supposed to be a three wire coil, but the part number for the coils match. Thanks Chris.

1 week later
#15 7 years ago

Yeah!!!!!!!!! Finally fixed the problem. Reversed the coils to the right position, switched the 1st and 3rd wires on the coil, added new springs and the ramps work perfect. I ordered new switches that I did not have to use. The old springs were squeezed between the bottom of the coil and the bottom plate. You can see the old spring in one of my pictures that I originally took. Thanks for everyone's help.

#16 7 years ago

Yesssss! Congrats

#17 7 years ago

Atta boy!

Now go punch someone in the face!

#18 7 years ago

Nice! Congrats on fixing the issue

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