(Topic ID: 233419)

CGC Remake Scoop Problems


By guymontag451

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 52 posts
  • 31 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 months ago by Tlamb
  • Topic is favorited by 9 Pinsiders

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Topic poll

“Have you had inconsistent scoop issues with CGC remakes?”

  • Yes 20 votes
    67%
  • No 10 votes
    33%

(30 votes)

There are 52 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 1 year ago

We own a pinball bar in portland and operate games around town. We have recently received two new Monster Bash remakes and also own two AFM remakes. ALL FOUR of our machines have an inconsistent scoop kickout. Meaning sometimes it hits the middle of the flipper like it should, sometimes it hits the very tip of the flipper making a slap save possible, and other times it just rockets down the center (this is happening way too often). It has elicited a ton of customer complaints, especially because those scoops are very necessary to hit throughout the game. We have tried everything we can think of, in the settings, testing to make sure the coil is getting consistent current, etc. Eventually we just sorts hand-bent the scoop on one of our AFMs to alter its directory. Works better now, still not 100%. Wondering if anyone else has experienced similar issues, and what have y'all done about it? Our MBs are really starting to get bad, it probably throws it down the drain 75% now (but feels like 100% to customers).

#2 1 year ago

I upped my scoop power on MBr, mine is also on location, I haven't received any complaints yet and in about 40-50 games I put on it I only had two balls go SDTM from the scoop.

#3 1 year ago
Quoted from Tsskinne:

I upped my scoop power on MBr, mine is also on location, I haven't received any complaints yet and in about 40-50 games I put on it I only had two balls go SDTM from the scoop.

Interesting. It's reassuring I guess to hear that not all remakes suffer from this. I will try and up the power on it again. Have done that before and it didn't have an effect. My problems aren't like a dribble out, or a slow kickout. It really feels like the trajectory of the ball is random, not like the kickout is weak and therefore the issue. But I will crank it up again and see how it goes. I was just wondering if anyone else has come across the same problems.

#4 1 year ago
Quoted from guymontag451:

Interesting. It's reassuring I guess to hear that not all remakes suffer from this. I will try and up the power on it again. Have done that before and it didn't have an effect. My problems aren't like a dribble out, or a slow kickout. It really feels like the trajectory of the ball is random, not like the kickout is weak and therefore the issue. But I will crank it up again and see how it goes. I was just wondering if anyone else has come across the same problems.

A local arcade has AFMr and their scoop is very unreliable.

#5 1 year ago

MMR kickout is to the side behind the damsel ramp and has a rubber ring there so it never results in drains. So really the question is for AFMR and MBR?

#6 1 year ago

mine has recently started to play up. I've ordered a replacement scoop to try and solve the issues.

#7 1 year ago

on afmr

#8 1 year ago
Quoted from guymontag451:

We own a pinball bar in portland and operate games around town. We have recently received two new Monster Bash remakes and also own two AFM remakes. ALL FOUR of our machines have an inconsistent scoop kickout.

Unfortunatly I have no solution to offer, but I've noticed this as well on both my AFMr at home and on location as well as with the MBr on location ... Monster Bash seems to be far worse in the inconsistency department than AFMr, with about 1 in 4 of the kick-outs going SDTM.

#9 1 year ago

Check the left wall of the scoop. As it gets bashed in by missed shots, the metal will mushroom. This results in a lip on the edge of the scoop that can deflect kickouts towards the drain if the ejected ball catches the lip. Make sure the scoop hasn't mushroomed - it it has, file the edge smooth. I had to do this on my HUO MB, so it wouldn't be surprising if it's happening on location remakes.

#10 1 year ago

@ltg @cgc-ryan @doug_duba ?

#11 1 year ago

Oh, second fix I did was to shim the kickout plunger up a bit so it just about touched the ball in the bottom of the scoop when at rest (stock setup has about 3/16" gap between the tip of the plunger and the ball). I cut a 1/2" length of flipper rubber (a square), placed it on the bracket the plunger rests on and wrapped electrical tape around bracket and rubber tightly. This setup causes the plunger to push the ball out much more consistently than when the plunger strikes the ball on the way up.

This fix is more important than the first one but both are eventually necessary.

Note that being able to drop-catch the scoop consistently will make your MB much easier... open the outlanes to compensate

Quoted from NeilMcRae:

@ltg @cgc-ryan @doug_duba

Can't blame them.. they inherited this problem from WMS. An accurate remake includes the warts But they are welcome to investigate and implement the plunger positioning fix I mentioned, it caused my OG MB to deliver a clean kick right to the middle of the left flipper, every time.

#12 1 year ago

I have an AFMr LE. Around 700 plays and have never had it drain down the middle. It hits the middle of the flipper every time, also mine is not on location, if that makes any difference.

#13 1 year ago

My AFMr scoop eject is perfect to the left flipper every time.

#14 1 year ago
Quoted from KozMckPinball:

MMR kickout is to the side behind the damsel ramp and has a rubber ring there so it never results in drains. So really the question is for AFMR and MBR?

Yes, we haven't had any issues with our MMr, although it doesn't have a true scoop on it.

#15 1 year ago
Quoted from metallik:Oh, second fix I did was to shim the kickout plunger up a bit so it just about touched the ball in the bottom of the scoop when at rest (stock setup has about 3/16" gap between the tip of the plunger and the ball). I cut a 1/2" length of flipper rubber (a square), placed it on the bracket the plunger rests on and wrapped electrical tape around bracket and rubber tightly. This setup causes the plunger to push the ball out much more consistently than when the plunger strikes the ball on the way up.
This fix is more important than the first one but both are eventually necessary.
Note that being able to drop-catch the scoop consistently will make your MB much easier... open the outlanes to compensate

Thank you, this makes sense to me. Closing that gap will likely help. I will post after with an update.

#16 1 year ago
Quoted from Davedigger:

I have an AFMr LE. Around 700 plays and have never had it drain down the middle. It hits the middle of the flipper every time, also mine is not on location, if that makes any difference.

Waiting for my MB so can't say on it yet. My AFMR LE has no problems

#17 1 year ago

Have had my AFMR LE for 13 months and it has never drained from the scoop eject

#18 1 year ago

Ended up taking a super slow motion video of it in action on the iphone, and saw the top of the scoop was giving a ton of backspin and sort of dropping the ball as it was thrown out of the scoop. Looks like the way the scoops came were just a little too tall. Grabbed some pliers and manually bent the scoop lower. Seems to have corrected the majority of the issue. Time will tell.

But it looks like the new lower top of the scoop doesn't allow it to follow the path of the scoop so high off of the playfield and drop the ball out of the air. I am sure that a little bit of air is inevitable, but this seems much better having bent it to be quite a bit lower. More predictable. Just little bit strange that we have had four machines all with the exact same issue. Seems like something that would get looked at more closely during assembly on the line, but no big deal. Easy enough fix.

#19 1 year ago

Another UPDATE:

Still not fixed. Thought the bending of the scoop helped, still wildly inconsistent. It appears that when rolling a ball in manually with the glass off it tests really well. But when the ball is hit in off of a flipper, not so much. Not sure why, but it must not seat properly everytime it goes into the scoop. Still not sure exactly why. Hope to do the rubber shim approach that metallik suggested next.

#20 1 year ago

I haven't had any issues with my AFMR, but when I got my MBR the scoop eject was going SDTM about 30% of the time. I loosened the screws, turned it counter clockwise and re-tightened. I was still having issues. The coil power adjustments didn't seem to do anything either. The thing that worked for me was waxing the inside of the scoop. I know that sounds stupid, but it has really worked. I think with the wax it has less backspin which keeps it from going SDTM. Good luck and I hope this works for you!

#21 1 year ago

Has anyone looked to see if the kicker is hitting the ball square? I could see that a loose or sticky coil sleeve might cause these issues as well, has anyone investigated the coil sleeves and plunger and if the side switch pressure might be too great? If the switch return spring pressure is too much, or the switch interferes with how the ball lands inside the scoop each time? As a mechanical engineer, this would be something fun to try and figure out, but as an owner, it would drive me nuts.

#22 1 year ago

How does this problem compare with an original Williams machine? Did originals have that problem?

#23 1 year ago
Quoted from KenLayton:

How does this problem compare with an original Williams machine? Did originals have that problem?

I have both an original AFM and MB and they both consistently eject to the left flipper. Both still have the original scoops.

#24 1 year ago
Quoted from KenLayton:

How does this problem compare with an original Williams machine? Did originals have that problem?

Never had issue on either one....

#25 1 year ago
Quoted from KenLayton:

How does this problem compare with an original Williams machine? Did originals have that problem?

No issue here either. My original game serves it up to the left sling every time.

#26 1 year ago

On my MBR I needed to up the coil strength (r popper strength) to maximum. Default setting would send it SDTM 98% of the time... unplayable.

I’ve not had an issue since.

#27 1 year ago

Ended up removing the scoop assembling and moving it about an 1/8th in and twisting it to the left and then remounting it. Got flipper rubber shim fix on it as well. Power to coil at max. Currently working much better. But again, time will tell. If it acts up again I will wax it like 22troy said. One I rotated and remounted the scoop like you said, it seems to have solved the problem for now.

#28 1 year ago

This problem recently surfaced on my AFMr. I set the kickout setting to MAX and it still does it, though not every time but enough to be annoying. I am going to try some of the fixes listed above to see if I can correct the problem as well.
I am unsure as to what changed to cause this issue, but it is definitely "something". It did not do this EVER for the first year or so I had the game.

#29 1 year ago
Quoted from KenLayton:

How does this problem compare with an original Williams machine? Did originals have that problem?

I had this issue initially - but it turned out that half the arm was missing on the kicker!

#30 1 year ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

I had this issue initially - but it turned out that half the arm was missing on the kicker!

Can't believe that you had a problem with that!

#31 1 year ago

Still working after the remounting and shim fixes. Hopefully this does it long term. I love these CGC remakes, but here's to hoping the next one doesn't have a scoop!

#32 1 year ago
Quoted from guymontag451:

Still working after the remounting and shim fixes. Hopefully this does it long term. I love these CGC remakes, but here's to hoping the next one doesn't have a scoop!

agreed, there is no scoop on ToM

#33 1 year ago

Just a trunk that goes apeshit all the time... Oh and a trap door mech that has given techs nightmares, but no scoop... wonderful trade off. :p

#34 1 year ago

I think (Just a guess) they'll do Cactus Canyon or Big Bang Bar before Theatre of Magic. Or maybe I just hope they do.

#35 1 year ago

I put a NOS scoop in and its fine now.

#36 1 year ago
Quoted from NeilMcRae:

I put a NOS scoop in and its fine now.

Did CGC send this?
My AFMLE shoots SDTM over 50% of the time. It is getting frustrating!!!

#37 1 year ago

The Mantis Amusements scoop is welded stainless with slotted holes for adjustment. If anyone has an issue, this is the route I would go.

#38 1 year ago
Quoted from whthrs166:

Can't believe that you had a problem with that!

I should have clarified - mine's not a remake, it was a wreck before I restored it

#39 1 year ago
Quoted from Rdoyle1978:

I should have clarified - mine's not a remake, it was a wreck before I restored it

Yep, I remember that thread!

#40 1 year ago

My original MB has this problem crop up. The bracket that holds the coil is slotted to allow some adjustment to how the ball is propelled up. As I remember you want the ball to hug the side of the scoop as it goes up. Adjusting this about 3 years ago it was fine up until very recently, this is on my list of things I need to attend to in the basement. You should not have to buy a new scoop to fix this unless something is broken IMHO.

#41 1 year ago

I hope I shouldn’t have to buy a new scoop on a game that is one month old.
I will have to check it out from the underside I guess.... still love AFMLE...

#42 1 year ago

I’ve noticed this on multiple AFMrs on location. That and the scoops just die sometimes and basically immobilize the machine. Overall not impressed with CGC whatsoever.

#43 1 year ago

Yeah, I was looking at the feed on my TOM or Funhouse and it feeds consistently in the same small area every time.
AFMR and MBR.... not so much, the feed is a little more spread out.
AFMR isn't to bad, the coil strength needs to go up since it's getting close to flying down the middle.
MBR was really bad from the start, did a +1 and it helped. It hits the left flipper most of the time, sometimes right, on occasion down the middle and sometimes it doesn't pop the ball all the way out.

Not enough of an annoyance to open a ticket over, but figured I post since I saw the thread.

#44 1 year ago
Quoted from hollywood:

Did CGC send this?
My AFMLE shoots SDTM over 50% of the time. It is getting frustrating!!!

I know your pain! That's why I started this thread. It does seem like this is a far too common problem. Not everyone has experienced it, but too many in my opinion.

#45 1 year ago

Probably not really any help, but my AFMr consistently shoots at the left flipper with the default settings. It seems to have changed, though - it used to shoot right around the middle of the left flipper, which made it easy to simply hit it straight back into the SOL hole, but after a couple hundred games it now seems to shoot more towards the upper part of the left flipper, and sometimes it hits the left sling. Still OK to me; I like when it hits the upper part of the left flipper as I can consistently flip the ball over to the right flipper and hold it there.

5 months later
#46 12 months ago

yep, this problem has been a nightmare , my "cliffy" protector was bashed up hard within my first 700 routed games. I also took out the scoop and re bent it with a big hammer .. worked for a bit , but it is starting to drain again 10% is too much

this part should be made with much stronger materials ...

also getting a right gate stuck error , which it is not ..

the scoop and the cliffy would have been easy fixes for a game this great for routing .. a little bummed

#47 12 months ago
Quoted from Dawson:

also getting a right gate stuck error , which it is not ..

Page 1-57 and page 1-58 in the manual.

LTG : )

#48 12 months ago

I had a wildly inconsistent kick out on my RFM which had about 5000 plays on it. I tried some bending and shimming with no luck. Then I noticed there was a groove worn into the metal at like the curved upper portion where the ball rides the metal hard. It was something I really couldn’t see if the scoop was installed in the game. I welded up the groove and ground it flat and now it is fixed. I think the metal used was crap that wore out easily or maybe just designed too thin. Anyway, that’s my experience.

6 months later
#49 5 months ago

My MB LE Remake shoots down the middle about half the time. It’s driving me crazy. It shoots out of the scoop very inconsistently in both direction and ball speed.

#50 5 months ago

I was still having some issues so came up with the fix of putting a piece of drop dead foam (or anything that would raise the plunger bottom) up about a quarter inch. I placed it In between the rubber grommet and the bottom of the plunger of the kickout mech under the playfield. This raises the plunger a bit so the ball is touching the top of it when it’s resting in the scoop. Seems to have been working pretty consistently.

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