(Topic ID: 188092)

CGC Pinball Production Update

By CGC_DougS

2 years ago

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  • 240 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 20 days ago by ataritoday
  • Topic is favorited by 130 Pinsiders


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Topic index (key posts)

13 key posts have been marked in this topic

Post #392 Report of AFMR SE delivery! Posted by sandersj (2 years ago)

Post #431 Update from CGC on latest shipping, and details on packaging changes Posted by CGC_DougS (2 years ago)

Post #522 Nifty LED information on cool white LED's for AFMR Posted by NiftyLED (2 years ago)

Post #613 Update from Doug on AFMR build status. LE's now in production. Posted by CGC_DougS (2 years ago)

Post #711 Production update Posted by CGC_DougS (2 years ago)

Post #777 Key posted, but no summary given Posted by CGC_DougS (2 years ago)

Post #820 AFM LE delivered! Posted by kidchrisso (2 years ago)

Post #1157 September 1st Update from CGC Posted by CGC_DougS (2 years ago)

Post #1175 Production update from CGC including game #3 launch targets! Posted by CGC_DougS (2 years ago)

Post #1214 Pre-Expo production update from Doug at CGC Posted by CGC_DougS (2 years ago)

Post #1348 update from CGC with regard to flipper power settings fix in the works Posted by CGC_DougS (2 years ago)

Topic indices are generated from key posts and maintained by Pinside Editors. For more information, or to become an editor yourself read this post!

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#51 2 years ago

Does anyone know if CGC are intending to bring MMr back in house?

CGC_DougS ?

#55 2 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Make a bunch of AFMR, then more MMR standards, then more AFMR. All at CGC.
That's the plan.
LTG : )

Assume production has been suspended on MMr for quite some while then, as AFAIK Stern hasn't made any since the middle of last year.

Will be curious to see how the in-house ones compare in build quality.

Is pricing likely to be brought more in line with AFMr now that they don't have to pay Stern?

#62 2 years ago
Quoted from pumpkinlad:

As nice as that would be for those of us still looking to buy a MMR, I can't imagine that would go over well with existing MMR owners and distributors with current stock.

I don't see why. Some of them will have had an MMr for at least 2 and a half years by the time any further production begins at CGC ... and closing on 3 years seems like substantial enough time for model revision / pricing change en lieu of scale and not having to pay a CM. Last run of Stern build ones was a while ago, too.

#64 2 years ago
Quoted from Ballypinball:

MMR won't drop in price, costs more to build 250 or 500 at a time than 1000
Same happened with woz 75th games went up in price.

If a revision comes out with the larger screen and better than Stern build quality / QC, I expect they'll sell more than 1000 without too much difficulty.

#67 2 years ago
Quoted from jgentry:

Why would anyone drop the price of something that is selling well and compared to originals is not over priced. That's just bad business. You want it to have better build quality, a large screen, and for them to reduce the price. Why not just ask for them to give you one?

You don't think Stern were doing it at zero margin, do you? Plus, economies of scale. Both of you seem to be forgetting that the majority of parts are common to both AFM and MM. Larger parts orders = lower costs.

MM, still after MMr, is pretty scarce relative to demand, hence the (back to) obscene used prices. If CGC can make MMr as attractive to purchase as AFMr (whether by price, features, quality or all three), then they can sell just as many new ones as AFMr. Indeed, original MMs are now much more expensive than original AFMs generally, after the temporary dip when the market reacted to MMr.

#69 2 years ago
Quoted from jgentry:

You don't think it was free for CGC to setup a production line, hire staff, and relearn how to build these things do you? They completely restructured their warehouse for this. That was probably free, right? It's going to be slow costly process for CGC to start making games again. Stern is certainly going to be much faster and more efficient at building games then CGC probably will ever be. Your argument makes no sense other then you want one cheaper. The market has already set the price of MMr and it's not coming down. You can't even find a used one at a bargain price, which means they are still in high demand.

Except if the costs were so mammoth as you seem to be suggesting, then AFMr would be more expensive than MMr. Except, it's significantly cheaper. The game specific parts and mechs might be more costly in stock MMr, but they certainly won't be compared to the stuff in the AFMr LE, but they're a small part of the overal cost anyway.

Part of the cost of MMr initially was almost certainly the need to amortise much of the cost of their new system's development (which AFMr shares).

Also, CGC make amusement and arcade machines already ... and their parent, Churchill, makes the pfs and cabinets anyway. This wasn't setting up from scratch.

Further, you are right that the market has set the used price of MM and MMr ... but you don't seem to understand the concept of scarcity. MMr was produced very slowly, and there has been no production of them for a long time. If CGC produce their machines much more quickly than Stern - which wouldn't be hard given how slowly they trickled out - then there won't be such a huge shortfall in supply.

#73 2 years ago
Quoted from jgentry:

Please go back and see every other company that has tried to enter the pinball production market and see how fast and smoothly it has went.

Spooky have been pretty fast and smooth, and they'd never done anything like it before and started completely from scratch, on a seemingly limited budget. New entrants don't have to be a shit show, though they generally have been.

CGC / Churchill have been producing and supplying major pinball parts for decades, and arcade cabinets and amusement machines for years.

1 week later
#154 2 years ago
Quoted from CGC_DougS:

Hi Everyone:
If all we did was produce pinballs, it might be so much easier. However, many of you know that this building still produces a lot of cabinetry and other wood products for the professional coin-op amusement industry as well as a complete line of other products that we sell under the CGC name. Yes, we are super busy at Chicago Gaming and forgive me if I only get to Pinside on occasion. Here is a bullet point update and some news surrounding CGC:
• In addition to starting the production of Attack From Mars, we are also are putting the final touches on our new assembly line. Yes, we are still on course to start shipping pinballs in May. At first it will be slow, but we hope to get up to 15 games per day within a few short weeks. This line will run 6 days a week.
• The first quantity of games off the line are going to be AFM Special Editions. These games will be shipped to our dealers worldwide for the purpose of pinball festivals, trade-shows, and display models. After that our focus will turn to producing Limited Editions.
• Yes, there is still a lot of demand for MMR. In fact, we have orders for nearly 500 games standing at this point. It is our plan to build the first 500 AFM pins and then break to make the next run of 500 MMR’s. Following the MMR’s it will be back to AFM.
• As many of you know, the original artist, Doug Watson, was involved with the design of the LE topper. He hand sculptured the new Martian out of clay, provided the city background artwork, and prepared some conceptual drawings. CGC did the remaining engineering work. What you don’t know is that Doug Watson was also involved in creating some playfield back panel artwork as well. I am not going show any images of this, because I want to keep you all in suspense. However, it will be installed on the very first machine out of our building. I know you’re going to love it.
• Yes, even the very first AFM will be shipped with the mylar and metal hole guards installed.
• For the past few weeks, we have had the first AFM put on location in Chicago, Logan Arcade. With the exception of one coil issue, the game has been playing flawlessly. This is the same prototype pin that appeared at the TPF and the Amusement Expo in Dallas, Texas. This one game has probably already seen more play than most pins will ever encounter in a life time in someone’s home.
• I promise to post more pictures and information as the first games are being boxed.
Thank you for all of your enthusiasm.
Doug Skor

15 machines a day, 6 days a week as an initial target. That's serious numbers. Nearly 3500 a year.

That clearly shows they want to expand on what was essentially boutique for MMr previously, as supply was so low and price so high.

If an updated MMr comes at a more affordable price and in serious volume, and there's another new remake in a year's time, they could vye with JJP for the title of second largest producer of machines by volume. Not sure any of us saw that happening.

Presumably the line could be expanded if demand allows.

Much higher production is definitely good news for consumers, and will place pressure on prices - something CGC as producers of most of their own parts are ideally placed to benefit from, relative to competitors.

I assume as CGC have decades of production experience, the target is realistic, unlike other notable claims. Heighway's claim of 12-14,000 machines per annum in 2014 (only behind ~35k units now), and subsequent targets of 3-4000, then 100 per month, for example.

Anyway, best news in pinball that I've heard in my 2 years in the hobby ... and this from someone that thought they'd have no interest in AFMr and was lukewarm on MMr.

#170 2 years ago
Quoted from bob_e:

do the math = 4680
Ok, drop out some holidays call it 4500.
but then you need orders for those games

Think you'd be hard pressed with holidays, swaps between AFM and MM, and it being their first year to be 4500 rather than 3500.

#186 2 years ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I wonder if they'll offer the bigger screen on any newly built MMrs. Rick said they want to do it as a kit for current owners...but installed at the factory - I think that would definitely sell more units.

It makes no sense for them not to switch over. They can buy in more bulk, and they have more pricing tiers. Win-win.

#212 2 years ago
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

Just release it. You aren't making any money off of it and he has no damages.

That or just release detailed instructions, or have someone outside the US do it for you, if you're concerned about the letters

#214 2 years ago

Out of interest, are the mini saucer lighting kits on the LEs likely to be made available as kits to purchase for the others?

1 week later
#301 2 years ago

CGC_DougS could you comment on the possibility of whether the lighting kits for saucers that are currently LE only are likely to be available as kits?

Since third party kits are so wildly popular in AFM and RFM, it seems like a missed opportunity if not.

5 months later
#1295 2 years ago

Presumably it will require a lot of man hours to adapt and add to the animations, to have them in a format the same as or similar to AFMr.

Sure it'll be worth it though, both for those that want to upgrade, and for future buyers of MMr - there's no doubt it's an improvement, and will probably help the game sell thousands of units more.

Is the idea to have it available before the next time MMr goes on the line? Now that you're definitely doing it, it would be a bit strange to make more of MMr without offering the option of the larger display.

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