CGC Pinball Production Update


By CGC_DougS

1 month ago


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#151 40 days ago

Because the IP for the game itself would have come from Wayne to PPS, but no rights Bally/Williams logos etc.

This new AFM incarnation is so different though, it doesnt really need the logo. It will never appease the "purist" collector with all its enhancements, so not much point in using it at all. And the people buying it just want an AFM with all the bling and couldnt really care less whether its Stern, Bally, or CGC.

#152 40 days ago
Quoted from Iceman5000:

There has only been 1500 total MMr's to date.
1000LE's, 500 standards.

And at least 10 samples

#153 40 days ago
Quoted from cooked71:

Because the IP for the game itself would have come from Wayne to PPS, but no rights Bally/Williams logos etc.
This new AFM incarnation is so different though, it doesnt really need the logo. It will never appease the "purist" collector with all its enhancements, so not much point in using it at all. And the people buying it just want an AFM with all the bling and couldnt really care less whether its Stern, Bally, or CGC.

PPS can put 100 bally logos on it if they wanted to.

Better to be different so it doesn't confuse the public between original and remake

#154 40 days ago
Quoted from CGC_DougS:

Hi Everyone:
If all we did was produce pinballs, it might be so much easier. However, many of you know that this building still produces a lot of cabinetry and other wood products for the professional coin-op amusement industry as well as a complete line of other products that we sell under the CGC name. Yes, we are super busy at Chicago Gaming and forgive me if I only get to Pinside on occasion. Here is a bullet point update and some news surrounding CGC:
• In addition to starting the production of Attack From Mars, we are also are putting the final touches on our new assembly line. Yes, we are still on course to start shipping pinballs in May. At first it will be slow, but we hope to get up to 15 games per day within a few short weeks. This line will run 6 days a week.
• The first quantity of games off the line are going to be AFM Special Editions. These games will be shipped to our dealers worldwide for the purpose of pinball festivals, trade-shows, and display models. After that our focus will turn to producing Limited Editions.
• Yes, there is still a lot of demand for MMR. In fact, we have orders for nearly 500 games standing at this point. It is our plan to build the first 500 AFM pins and then break to make the next run of 500 MMR’s. Following the MMR’s it will be back to AFM.
• As many of you know, the original artist, Doug Watson, was involved with the design of the LE topper. He hand sculptured the new Martian out of clay, provided the city background artwork, and prepared some conceptual drawings. CGC did the remaining engineering work. What you don’t know is that Doug Watson was also involved in creating some playfield back panel artwork as well. I am not going show any images of this, because I want to keep you all in suspense. However, it will be installed on the very first machine out of our building. I know you’re going to love it.
• Yes, even the very first AFM will be shipped with the mylar and metal hole guards installed.
• For the past few weeks, we have had the first AFM put on location in Chicago, Logan Arcade. With the exception of one coil issue, the game has been playing flawlessly. This is the same prototype pin that appeared at the TPF and the Amusement Expo in Dallas, Texas. This one game has probably already seen more play than most pins will ever encounter in a life time in someone’s home.
• I promise to post more pictures and information as the first games are being boxed.
Thank you for all of your enthusiasm.
Doug Skor

15 machines a day, 6 days a week as an initial target. That's serious numbers. Nearly 3500 a year.

That clearly shows they want to expand on what was essentially boutique for MMr previously, as supply was so low and price so high.

If an updated MMr comes at a more affordable price and in serious volume, and there's another new remake in a year's time, they could vye with JJP for the title of second largest producer of machines by volume. Not sure any of us saw that happening.

Presumably the line could be expanded if demand allows.

Much higher production is definitely good news for consumers, and will place pressure on prices - something CGC as producers of most of their own parts are ideally placed to benefit from, relative to competitors.

I assume as CGC have decades of production experience, the target is realistic, unlike other notable claims. Heighway's claim of 12-14,000 machines per annum in 2014 (only behind ~35k units now), and subsequent targets of 3-4000, then 100 per month, for example.

Anyway, best news in pinball that I've heard in my 2 years in the hobby ... and this from someone that thought they'd have no interest in AFMr and was lukewarm on MMr.

#155 40 days ago
Quoted from AUKraut:

Wow!!! Nice looking AFMr......wait.....there is a Bally Logo allowed on AFMr and Williams was NOT allowed on MMr?????

Because bally is owned by cesars entertainment and licensed by Williams, williams didn't want Williams used on remakes, it would confuse shareholders and general public. As Williams was still in business

#156 39 days ago
Quoted from LTG:

Rick has a post on the AFMR section of his forum that CGC is looking into doing this. Display, cables, software, etc.
LTG : )

Now there is a dilemma: spend the $400 on the MMr video chip upgrade, or wait until CGC puts together the big display upgrade like on AFMrLE for the MMr. I would hate to spend $400 and throw that away a couple months later with the big display upgrade...

#157 39 days ago
Quoted from AUKraut:

Now there is a dilemma: spend the $400 on the MMr video chip upgrade, or wait until CGC puts together the big display upgrade like on AFMrLE for the MMr. I would hate to spend $400 and throw that away a couple months later with the big display upgrade...

Yeah I already have the color upgrade on MMr... the big display would be cool though if they do make a "kit".

#158 39 days ago
Quoted from chrisnack:

Yeah I already have the color upgrade on MMr... the big display would be cool though if they do make a "kit".

They would also have to re-do the animations and video artwork to make it hi-res like the AFMr.
That would be EPIC!

#159 39 days ago

does anyone know the dot resolution of the MMR screen and AFMR big screen?

#160 39 days ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

They would also have to re-do the animations and video artwork to make it hi-res like the AFMr.
That would be EPIC!

It already is. The only difference with AFMr is the screen size. Resolution is the same. All MMr would need is a speaker panel kit w/ the big monitor to swap in. The artists wouldn't have to do anything.

#161 39 days ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

It already is. The only difference with AFMr is the screen size. Resolution is the same. All MMr would need is a speaker panel kit w/ the big monitor to swap in. The artists wouldn't have to do anything.

I don't think that's correct as the newer (bigger) display has new animations at a higher resolution. It's more detailed.

#162 39 days ago
Quoted from stpcore:

I don't think that's correct as the newer (bigger) display has new animations at a higher resolution. It's more detailed.

Have you seen MMr color? It's more detailed, smaller dots. If you get an AFMr "Classic" Edition - you can upgrade to the color dots...they're the same dots that are on the big monitor. It's literally the same concept of watching something on a small TV or a big TV. Resolution can be the same on any size monitor.

25.jpg

For example. You can look at this MMR image on your phone - or on your computer - or on a projector screen. Same art, same resolution, different size display.

#163 39 days ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Have you seen MMr color? It's more detailed, smaller dots. If you get an AFMr "Classic" Edition - you can upgrade to the color dots...they're the same dots that are on the big monitor. It's literally the same concept of watching something on a small TV or a big TV. Resolution can be the same on any size monitor.

For example. You can look at this MMR image on your phone - or on your computer - or on a projector screen. Same art, same resolution, different size display.

That makes sense. I hadn't seen the MMr color version. It looks good to go. Sorry for any confusion on my part and thanks for sharing this.

#164 39 days ago

Yup MMr color is great, the graphics are "HD" and then it does a large dot for the scores etc. I'm spoiled with it. Just put a ColorDMD with the LED display in my Road Show, it's just weird compared to MMr.

#165 39 days ago
Quoted from BorgDog:

That's funny, check the header on that page... link to https://www.sggaming.com/games/bally
Don't know how it works on the licensing and using the names, but Bally is definitely still in business producing gaming machines, I know someone that works for them.

Bally and Williams are both still in business making casino games. Both were recently bought out by Scientific Games:

http://www.scientificgames.com/

#166 39 days ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

Have you seen MMr color? It's more detailed, smaller dots. If you get an AFMr "Classic" Edition - you can upgrade to the color dots...they're the same dots that are on the big monitor. It's literally the same concept of watching something on a small TV or a big TV. Resolution can be the same on any size monitor.

For example. You can look at this MMR image on your phone - or on your computer - or on a projector screen. Same art, same resolution, different size display.

The new AFMr animations have been completely redrawn at 4X the pixel density.
They are completely new and very will done.

I dont know if MMr went thru the same treatment, if it did then thats awesome!

It is true that you could get away with a big dot display of the same old thing but, the way they handled AFMr with completely redrawing all the animations is just stunningi

http://www.chicago-gaming.com/afm.php

Take a look half way down the page you will see what I mean. There is a comparison there.

#167 39 days ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

The new AFMr animations have been completely redrawn at 4X the pixel density.
They are completely new and very will done.
I dont know if MMr went thru the same treatment, if it did then thats awesome!
It is true that you could get away with a big dot display of the same old thing but, the way they handled AFMr with completely redrawing all the animations is just stunningi
http://www.chicago-gaming.com/afm.php
Take a look half way down the page you will see what I mean. There is a comparison there.

They did the SAME EXACT THING on MMR! lol ....srsly, believe me.

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#168 39 days ago

So pumped... wondering when the classics will be done though..? no mention...

#169 39 days ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

15 machines a day, 6 days a week as an initial target. That's serious numbers. Nearly 3500 a year.

do the math = 4680

Ok, drop out some holidays call it 4500.

but then you need orders for those games

#170 39 days ago
Quoted from bob_e:

do the math = 4680
Ok, drop out some holidays call it 4500.
but then you need orders for those games

Think you'd be hard pressed with holidays, swaps between AFM and MM, and it being their first year to be 4500 rather than 3500.

#171 39 days ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

They did the SAME EXACT THING on MMR! lol ....srsly, believe me.

Yes I think you are right especially given the standard machine can be upgraded to colour, the good news is that I guess that if CGC didn't do an upgrade you could just order the parts and do it yourself, I really hope they offer an MMR upgrade though, i'm in for sure if they do.

Neil.

#172 38 days ago

All mmr can be upgraded. Also rick has mentioned that he is going to push for cgc to hopefully come up with a solution to replace the standard display with the larger one for mmr as well. Said it may take some time considering everything else going on.

#173 38 days ago

Wow!
I need to upgrade my MMR to color.
That looks awesome!

#174 38 days ago
Quoted from JonH123:

Wow!
I need to upgrade my MMR to color.
That looks awesome!

Yes you do Totally worth the price. My buddy thought it was expensive since it was just the upgrade, but once he saw it, he was like ok that's cool as hell.

I can't wait for AFMr, with the bigger screen, it's going to very nice.

#175 38 days ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

They did the SAME EXACT THING on MMR! lol ....srsly, believe me.

Love those "32-bity" graphics! So beautiful and so much character. Wish Stern would have gone with that for their LCD, I'm not fond of the generic "smartphone" HD graphics everything ends up looking bland to me for some reason.

#176 38 days ago
Quoted from bob_e:

do the math = 4680
Ok, drop out some holidays call it 4500.
but then you need orders for those games

That's assuming they build 6 days a week for the whole year.
I don't think they will be doing that. Manufacturing 6 days a week can only be done for so long before you burn your crew out. The only way you can do that long term is if you have the man power that allows them only work 5 days a week but man the line for 6 days a week.

#177 38 days ago
Quoted from Fytr:

Love those "32-bity" graphics! So beautiful and so much character. Wish Stern would have gone with that for their LCD, I'm not fond of the generic "smartphone" HD graphics everything ends up looking bland to me for some reason.

Agreed. Pinball is inherently retro, and retro graphics are "in"....hey just have a charm about them! Granted, I love the display on my Hobbit - but I still love my ColorDMD graphics and the style that CGC is doing as well!

#178 38 days ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

They did the SAME EXACT THING on MMR! lol ....srsly, believe me.

I love what they did with the color MMr! Thanks.

Seriously, after seeing this I want to sell my MM original and get a MMr with bigger screen and color.

#179 38 days ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

I love what they did with the color MMr! Thanks.
Seriously, after seeing this I want to sell my MM original and get a MMr with bigger screen and color.

You should MMr is better anyways. Better electronics, it's new... etc... You should be able to sell your original and buy a new one and still pocket some cash from the way prices are these days.

#180 38 days ago
Quoted from pinballinreno:

I love what they did with the color MMr! Thanks.
Seriously, after seeing this I want to sell my MM original and get a MMr with bigger screen and color.

I wonder if they'll offer the bigger screen on any newly built MMrs. Rick said they want to do it as a kit for current owners...but installed at the factory - I think that would definitely sell more units.

#181 38 days ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I wonder if they'll offer the bigger screen on any newly built MMrs. Rick said they want to do it as a kit for current owners...but installed at the factory - I think that would definitely sell more units.

How much you wanna bet the next run of CGC made MMR's will be called the MMR SE with the bigger screen.

#182 38 days ago
Quoted from arcademojo:

How much you wanna bet the next run of CGC made MMR's will be called the MMR SE with the bigger screen.

I don't doubt that at all....

#183 38 days ago
Quoted from arcademojo:

How much you wanna bet the next run of CGC made MMR's will be called the MMR SE with the bigger screen.

I have heard of no plans like that at all.

LTG : )

#184 38 days ago

Would be good to see the black and green trims side by side. Have a black trim LE on order but I am warming to green (not enough to change my mind yet though).

#185 38 days ago
Quoted from mark9:

Would be good to see the black and green trims side by side. Have a black trim LE on order but I am warming to green (not enough to change my mind yet though).

Once you go green....

I got green because if figured, if you are going to get an LE, why the hell not.. not because i think it looks better... i'd prefer black to be honest atheistically...

#186 38 days ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

I wonder if they'll offer the bigger screen on any newly built MMrs. Rick said they want to do it as a kit for current owners...but installed at the factory - I think that would definitely sell more units.

It makes no sense for them not to switch over. They can buy in more bulk, and they have more pricing tiers. Win-win.

#187 38 days ago
Quoted from mark9:

Would be good to see the black and green trims side by side. Have a black trim LE on order but I am warming to green (not enough to change my mind yet though).

I'd really like to see them side by side as well. I originally wanted green but then went with black on my preorder. Ultimately I may just go with a dark red powdercoat when it's all said and done.

#188 38 days ago
Quoted from LTG:

I have heard of no plans like that at all.
LTG : )

SO is the smiley face a hint?

#189 38 days ago
Quoted from arcademojo:

SO is the smiley face a hint?

No, that has been part of my signature line since 1996. The LTG goes back to about 1975.

LTG : )

#190 38 days ago
Quoted from LTG:

No, that has been part of my signature line since 1996. The LTG goes back to about 1975.
LTG : )

LTG : )™

#191 38 days ago

To those that have played AFMr. How was the callout volume? Is it low like MMr or does it sound normal?

#192 38 days ago
Quoted from DeeGor:

To those that have played AFMr. How was the callout volume? Is it low like MMr or does it sound normal?

Granted I was in a bar playing it, so there was quite a bit of noise. But I thought it sounded great! The one I was playing had the upgraded premium audio. I thought it was great

#193 38 days ago
Quoted from DeeGor:

To those that have played AFMr. How was the callout volume? Is it low like MMr or does it sound normal?

Y is this? I played a few afmrs and mmrs at allentown and the callouts were lower than the music and sound effects? Im sure it can be adjusted tho.....

#194 38 days ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Y is this? I played a few afmrs and mmrs at allentown and the callouts were lower than the music and sound effects? Im sure it can be adjusted tho.....

There are tons of adjustments for the audio on the AFMr.

#195 38 days ago
Quoted from bigd1979:

Y is this? I played a few afmrs and mmrs at allentown and the callouts were lower than the music and sound effects? Im sure it can be adjusted tho.....

It's because they're using the original uncompressed voice files - unfortunately they're mixed a little different. It's good that AFMr has audio settings. Hopefully there will be an update that allows MMr to do the same. Although honestly it's just the various "Castle bosses" that are too low. The princesses, trolls...all the other levels are fine IMO

#196 38 days ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

It's because they're using the original uncompressed voice files - unfortunately they're mixed a little different. It's good that AFMr has audio settings. Hopefully there will be an update that allows MMr to do the same. Although honestly it's just the various "Castle bosses" that are too low. The princesses, trolls...all the other levels are fine IMO

Agreed!

#197 38 days ago

As RH stated, the samples are just way too low. I was curious if they did things differently with AFMr.

The volume of the callouts can be raised, but it takes modifying the firmware. I did it for mine, and they sound much better.

#198 37 days ago
Quoted from DeeGor:

As RH stated, the samples are just way too low. I was curious if they did things differently with AFMr.
The volume of the callouts can be raised, but it takes modifying the firmware. I did it for mine, and they sound much better.

On MMr? How did you do that?!

#199 37 days ago
Quoted from Rarehero:

It's because they're using the original uncompressed voice files - unfortunately they're mixed a little different. It's good that AFMr has audio settings. Hopefully there will be an update that allows MMr to do the same. Although honestly it's just the various "Castle bosses" that are too low. The princesses, trolls...all the other levels are fine IMO

One guy on here made a program/script to raise the voice levels. Dont think he ever released it, but it would be cool if he did.

#200 37 days ago
Quoted from rubberducks:

in my 2 years in the hobby

2 whole years!!??!!

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