(Topic ID: 240002)

CFTBL VUK coil locked on, during start up.

By bkaelin

5 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 24 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by advans13
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 5 years ago

Short version: I got a reimport creature. Been going through everything. The thing was a mess. Installed new Rottendog boards throughout, slowly bringing all of the broken wiring under the playfield back online. I'm at the last broken coil wire on the right side VUK. Soldered it back in place, powered up, the coil is locked on. Powered off, cleaned the optos adjacent the VUK, powered back on, still locked on. Unplugged the optos, powered up, still locked on. Cut the small wire, just as I found the game, powered on, and (as it should) game powers up and plays fine, with the exception of the one coil.
The driver board is brand new and I tested it in another game with no problem, so I don't think it is the board.
What is my next step? Swap in a known good coil? Look upstream for some other wiring issue.

#2 5 years ago

I'd test drive transistor to be sure.

Then I'd remove both wires from coil and check the ends with a meter set to ohms. One probe on each wire. If dead shorted, you know from the driver board to the coil, you have a bad short. And need to dig through the wiring to check from the driver board to coil that you have the right color wires, and nothing mucking things up along the way.

LTG : )

#3 5 years ago

I will need to bone up on how to test a drive transistor. Never done it.
I removed both wires and checked the coil. The coil seems ok.
Tested across both wires, set to ohms and it seems like a dead short (assuming I am reading the meter correctly).
Couldn't find anything obvious. I need to find out where that little purple wire ends up.

#4 5 years ago

Check the entirety of both wires that lead to this coil. Sometimes, the insulation can be frayed off m, and it could be this that is causing your coil to lock on. Had that happen to my AFM shooter lane coil, and that ended up being the problem.

Find the plug responsible for delivering power from the power driver board to the coil and unhook it. If unhooked the coil still fires, something going on off the board. If it doesnt fire, the transistor responsible for telling the VUK to fire needs to be checked.

You're almost done. Dont give up now!

#5 5 years ago

Here's what I found in the manual. So the small wire is the drive connector and the two larger gauge wires are the daisy-chained voltage connectors?

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#6 5 years ago

Q82 and Q90 both buzzed when I touched the tab when I checked continuity. Not sure what Q90 is for, it is not listed in the manual. Q82 is the VUK/top right popper. So now what? Have I found the issue? Too soon, and more things to check?
Thanks for all the help everyone!

#7 5 years ago

Any thoughts?
Are there any other components that might be compromised?
And should I be looking for something that caused this issue to begin with?
This driver board is brand new, I had just installed it in this game.
I did blow a fuse once when I was running through the coil tests. Perhaps that did it?
I just want to make sure it doesn't happen again...

#8 5 years ago
Quoted from bkaelin:

Q82 and Q90 both buzzed when I touched the tab when I checked continuity.

You need to touch the three legs, two at a time, not the tab to check a transistor.

LTG : )

#9 5 years ago
Quoted from NPO:

Find the plug responsible for delivering power from the power driver board to the coil and unhook it. If it doesn't fire, the transistor responsible for telling the VUK to fire needs to be checked.

Resoldered both connections, unplugged the driver board connection. Powered up the game. Coil doesn't fire.
Sounds like I need to check that transistor. Dang it. I have so much trouble using a meter. Never sure if I'm doing it right, and whether the readings are good....
What kind of reading should I be looking for between the three legs, and can I check it without taking the board out of the game?

#10 5 years ago
Quoted from bkaelin:

Resoldered both connections, unplugged the driver board connection. Powered up the game. Coil doesn't fire.
Sounds like I need to check that transistor. Dang it. I have so much trouble using a meter. Never sure if I'm doing it right, and whether the readings are good....
What kind of reading should I be looking for between the three legs, and can I check it without taking the board out of the game?

All right, here we go.

As you pointed out, the Solenoid in question is #1 "Upper Right Popper". Referencing the owner's manual, page 3-5, we see that the transistor in question is Q82. The game's vast majority (read: pretty much all) transistor will reside on the power driver board. So you reference the manual, page 2-10, and you will see on the right right column, item #42 --> circuit designator column = Q82, Description column = TIP36C transistor.

Then, it is all about how much you know/references you have at your disposal.

Get your multimeter, put it on DC Voltage at 2V. This means that the multimeter will read all values at 2V or below.

Testing a TIP36C: Put the red lead of the DMM on the metal tab of the transistor. Put the black lead of the DMM on each of the two outside legs of the transistor one at a time. A reading of .4 to .6 volts should be seen. Put the black lead on the center transistor leg (collector) and the red lead on the metal tab, and a zero reading should be seen. Put the black lead of the DMM on the left/top (base) leg of the transistor. The red lead on the center transistor leg should show .4 to .6 volts. The red lead on the right/bottom leg should be .2 volts. Any other value, and the transistor is bad and will need to be replaced.

Let us know what you find.

#11 5 years ago

It's a Rottendog board so the transistor in question is a 20N10L. Someone once told me that you can't test a MOSFET like a BJT. I'm not an electronics person so I don't know how much truth there is to that statement. I avoid Rottendog aftermarket boards but appreciate that they provide a replacement available to people that want them.

#12 5 years ago

Thanks everyone.
Ok, so yes it is a Rottendog board, so I don't know if it is different from what NPO is telling me to do, but I went ahead and followed NPO's direction.
I'm not getting anything on Q82 using the steps you provided. Just zero.

A little more info, I compared the resistance across the coil with other coils in the game. The other coils were showing number like 10-11. The coil in question was registering a 3.

#13 5 years ago
Quoted from bkaelin:

I compared the resistance across the coil with other coils in the game.

Did you disconnect the wires to them when you compared them ?

LTG : )

#14 5 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Did you disconnect the wires to them when you compared them ?
LTG : )

Actually no, the wires were connected. Did I just display my ignorance?
If so, it wouldn't be the first time.

#15 5 years ago
Quoted from bkaelin:

Did I just display my ignorance?

No. You are learning.

Wires connected, you could get readings from something else. Not just the coil.

LTG : )

#16 5 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

No. You are learning.
Wires connected, you could get readings from something else. Not just the coil.
LTG : )

Thanks Lloyd! I always appreciate your help, as I am sure many others do as well.

#17 5 years ago

Just inherited this pin from Brian via a large wad of 20’s.

I will follow up with any updates as I love a tech thread with closure.

I went ahead and ordered a new coil and transistor preemptively providing one is bad after some checks.

2 weeks later
#18 5 years ago

Small update, just to regather some newer info as I have yet see it for myself.

The coil measures in spec at 4.2 ohms when pulled out if circuit.

In game mode with the vuk drive wire unhooked, blocking the path of the optos registers the slide shot.

I did briefly alligator clip the drive wire connection back just to see the behavior myself (since I havent yet). Sure enough the vuk is locked in the up position when the game turns on.

Couple of notes:

One thing I did notice is the grommet (23-6420) the coil arm rests on when not firing is gone and replaced with a bolt and washer to replicate the height of the arm when resting on the grommet. Must be a reimport hack. I checked the height against some other coils, but it could be mounted too high...

I also noticed after comparing a few pictures to other machines the bracket that holds the vuk assembly is mounted the opposite way in most machines. Attached a pic and circled the bolt.

Next I will be testing the 20N10L mosfet at q82.

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#19 5 years ago

check the driver transistor. Bet its blown. Also replace predriver transistor if its bad.

#20 5 years ago

wow thats a dirty cellar right there.

#21 5 years ago
Quoted from Hawk007:

wow thats a dirty cellar right there.

Thats the dirty lagoon mod, yo....

I have yet to clean the machine.

#22 5 years ago

I would also check the wiring. Could be shorted together causing this. Easy to check. Disconnect the coil and plug from the driver board and check for continuity on the power/ground wires.

#23 5 years ago

Or pinched somewhere. I have bought games where wires were pinched under mechs screwed to the bottom of the playfield. Yikes or what.
Just something to consider

1 week later
#24 4 years ago

Had some time today to go over shit. I once again verified with the driver wire off the coil that it was in spec and not shorted with my meter. Checked out good.

I then ran a continuity test and visual check on the power and driver wires. They both appeared in good shape and were not shorted against anything part on the playfield/cab.

Next I removed the driver board. Forgot how much of a pain that is. Again, it is a rottendog board, and I would be checking a mosfet at q82 along with the diode and resistor supporting it.

I desoldered q82 and to check i put the meter in diode mode to do a few of the normal checks. The drain was shorted to the source and the mosfet was toast. Diode and resistor were good.

Soldered in a new replacement mosfet and soldered back the driver wire to the coil.

Fired right up, vuk no longer locked on in the up position, which it would do on power up. Started and played two games and got my first multi-ball since ownership!

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