(Topic ID: 206798)

CFTBL too powerful flippers

By zezami

6 years ago


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  • 16 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 years ago by zaza
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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240Vac-z (resized).jpg
#1 6 years ago

I just bought a CFTBL and flippers were weak and needed some new parts, so I did a repair and replaced all worn out parts.

After the repair the flippers work flawless, but it's like they became too powerful. If you shoot the KISS left loop the ball just bounces back out of the loop most of the time and shooting the left ramp u get an airball jumping out of the ramp 1/3 of the time. I have checked that the correct coils are installed. If i measure the voltage on the coils it read 81V which seems a little bit too high? I tried replacing the fliptronics card from my Dr Who but with the same results, 81V. I don't know if 81V is really a problem but it seems a little bit too high, which might cause the increased flipper strength. I noticed that if i disconnect J102 on the power driver board the flipper coils read 70V. But as soon as i connect it they jump back up to 81V. I've thought about replacing BR3 on the driver board and/or BR1 on the fliptronic board, maybe getting new coils since i guess some previous owner might have removed some copper windings from the coils to make them more powerful but i thought i'd check here before I do anything. Any ideas?

#2 6 years ago
Quoted from zezami:

I noticed that if i disconnect J102 on the power driver board the flipper coils read 70V. But as soon as i connect it they jump back up to 81V.

That sounds a little strange.
There is a small capacitor on the powerdriver and some fliptronic boards. But jumping between 81 and 70 V with/without J102 connected sounds almost that there is a second supply involved.

When J102 is unplugged, does the voltage drop to zero Volts on the playfield coils after a coil is activated in solenoid test T4 ?
The same with the flippercoils. J102 unplugged and press a flipperbutton while in testmenu. Does the voltage drop to zero Volts on the flippercoils ?

#3 6 years ago
Quoted from zaza:

That sounds a little strange.
There is a small capacitor on the powerdriver and some fliptronic boards. But jumping between 81 and 70 V with/without J102 connected sounds almost that there is a second supply involved.
When J102 is unplugged, does the voltage drop to zero Volts on the playfield coils after a coil is activated in solenoid test T4 ?
The same with the flippercoils. J102 unplugged and press a flipperbutton while in testmenu. Does the voltage drop to zero Volts on the flippercoils ?

Yes they both drop to zero volts, flippercoils voltage then start climbing slowly up to 2-3V

#4 6 years ago

my cftbl fliptronics board has the small capacitor, but the one in my dr who does not. same problem with 81v with the fliptronics board from dr who installed in cftbl though.

#5 6 years ago

Have a look on the back side of your Power driver board. Any repairs that has excessive solder that may bridge a circuit?

#6 6 years ago

Ok, that seems normal. The capacitor was keeping the voltage at 70-80 Volt when you unplugged J102.
Best replace R260 10K (next to heatsink 5V.regulator) to keep voltage steady at 70 Volt.

But this is not the reason for too powerful flippers.
Is transformer correct pinned for mains voltage ? 215-230 Vac
Playfield level at 6-6.5 degrees ?

#7 6 years ago
Quoted from generalgman:

Have a look on the back side of your Power driver board. Any repairs that has excessive solder that may bridge a circuit?

no previous repairs at all as far as i could see when i inspected it.

#8 6 years ago
Quoted from zaza:

Ok, that seems normal. The capacitor was keeping the voltage at 70-80 Volt when you unplugged J102.
Best replace R260 10K (next to heatsink 5V.regulator) to keep voltage steady at 70 Volt.
But this is not the reason for too powerful flippers.
Is transformer correct pinned for mains voltage ? 215-230 Vac
Playfield level at 6-6.5 degrees ?

Ah forgot to say that, the first thing i did after googling around was changing the R260 resistor, i took a 47k ohm instead, no difference though, still 81v.
Playfield is at about 6.5-7 degress, more than enough i'd say.

I'll take a look at the transformer

#9 6 years ago
Quoted from zaza:

Ok, that seems normal. The capacitor was keeping the voltage at 70-80 Volt when you unplugged J102.
Best replace R260 10K (next to heatsink 5V.regulator) to keep voltage steady at 70 Volt.
But this is not the reason for too powerful flippers.
Is transformer correct pinned for mains voltage ? 215-230 Vac
Playfield level at 6-6.5 degrees ?

hm found something strange.. white cable from fuse box/power on switch goes to white/brown cable to transformer instead of to the white/orange cable where is should go.. it has been modified for some reason, you can see that the cable has been connected to white/orange before but that cable is cut off and then inserted to connect to the white/brown cable instead. not exactly sure by looking at the schematic what this would cause.. or why it has been modified this way.

#10 6 years ago

When mains is connected to the WHT-BRN wire, it is plugged for use of 215 Volt.
Sometimes this is done in remote areas where there is loss of power due to long electricity cables.

In most European cities, the Voltage is somewhere between 230 and 240 Vac.

If possible, re-pin it like this if your wall voltage is ~230V: (re-pin with powercable pulled from wall)
240Vac-z (resized).jpg240Vac-z (resized).jpg

#11 6 years ago
Quoted from zaza:

When mains is connected to the WHT-BRN wire, it is plugged for use of 215 Volt.
Sometimes this is done in remote areas where there is loss of power due to long electricity cables.
In most European cities, the Voltage is somewhere between 230 and 240 Vac.
If possible, re-pin it like this if your wall voltage is ~230V: (re-pin with powercable pulled from wall)

Yep i've done that now and voltage is steady at 74V! Flippers seem to be a little lest powerful now which is great, however, i seem to be missing 20V now, none of the flashers are working. Reading 0v at the TP for 20v on the driver board..

#12 6 years ago

Sounds like you will have to follow the wires back for more hacks. Great that you are making progress.

#13 6 years ago
Quoted from zezami:

Reading 0v at the TP for 20v on the driver board

Check:
- Fuse F112
- Vac on J102 WHT-RED wires, must be 16Vac across J102-1 and J102-4

#14 6 years ago

Ah nevermind my previous post, just a blown fuse. Changed it and now 20v and flashers are back again. A bit strange though cause the flashers were working fine up until i redid the transformer connection!

#15 6 years ago
Quoted from zaza:

Check:
- Fuse F112
- Vac on J102 WHT-RED wires, must be 16Vac across J102-1 and J102-4

Yup thats what i did, but F111 not F112 was blown, it was not blown just before i did the transformer recabling though, flashers were working just fine, strange!

Thanks for your help! Greatly appreciated!

#16 6 years ago
Quoted from zezami:

but F111 not F112 was blown,

Yep Correct, F111 is for 20Volt

Glad you got it working

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