(Topic ID: 79877)

CFTBL - New Hologram from PPS


By pintaculous

5 years ago



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  • 52 posts
  • 37 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 years ago by Billy16
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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There are 52 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
#1 5 years ago

New repro hologram arrived today. This is for those of us who want to keep our machine basically stock. There is, of course, the very excellent LCD mod as an alternative for those who are not as fussy about stock-ness as I am. Here are my first impressions. Totally my opinion, and ymmv.

The Pro's:

1. It's green. Very green, and it stays green when viewed from off-axis angles.
2. From forum discussions a few months ago, I think they had a bit of trouble dialing in the proper backing plate material, but it seems they found a pretty good solution. It's a solid mount, and it flexes pretty well via the motor-driven cam. It fits into the frame with excellent tolerances.
3. The instructions say it might be twitchy to align the light and mirror to achieve a uniform green result, but mine was fine as is.
4. If your Creech is missing the hologram, or the one you have is completely shot, you will probably love this.
5. Thanks to those who were involved in bringing this to market. It's a plus for the hobby.

The Con's:

1. Apparently the original creature model was lost (or is in someones collection somewhere). The new model that was created to make the image is not too bad. But I was disappointed it was not a more accurate representation of the original Creature.
2. It's not an inexpensive part, which leads me to pose the following thoughts for you to decide if it's worth it to you.

My original hologram is definitely blue, there are a few tiny spots on it where someone in the past dribbled something nasty (maybe solder), plus the frame is sort of bent and funky. That being said, it still produces a pretty good effect (although mostly blue). If you have one like mine, you could maybe ask yourself , What if you never knew it was supposed to be green to begin with? And then there is the question of how much you are going to be looking at it anyway? Aside from seeing it flash once when each FILM letter is awarded, I'm a poor enough player that I'm very seldom aware of it at all during multiball. Catching a ball on the left flipper while trying to shoot the whirlpool over and over without draining takes about 100% of my attention.

Here are before and after pix. In the end, I decided I liked the original better, even though it is blue, because it just looks more like Creech. I've left it in there for now. The new one is on the shelf as a spare. I'll probably keep it as such, unless the supply from PPS drys up and somebody really needs me to sell it to them.

I cannot, for the life of me, get true color pictures. They both look blue. But the original really is blue, and the new one is solidly green.

Morser

The New one
newholo.jpg

The Old one
oldholo.jpg

#2 5 years ago

Thanks for the great write up on this hologram replacement. I agree - the original model looks better.

#3 5 years ago

Miles better even.

#4 5 years ago
Quoted from pintaculous:

The Con's:
1. Apparently the original creature model was lost (or is in someones collection somewhere). The new model that was created to make the image is not too bad. But I was disappointed it was not a more accurate representation of the original Creature.

What I personally can't understand is why the new model couldn't be a more accurate representation of the original?

IE--talented artists can work their magic on canvas to create a near 100% clone of any painting. Fakes are omni-present in the art world.

Fakes so realistic, they're to the point of an expert having to be called in to verify a work's authenticity. Monet, Rembrandt--you name it.

Same goes for 3D statues.

Look at the Statue of David in Caesars Palace...they obviously didn't borrow the original.

You get the point.

Therefore, I'm left puzzled why a dead-ringer of the original can't be done/hasn't been done?

???

#5 5 years ago

Thanks for the write up. Been debating this, but honestly the repro is just simply lame-tastic. I know the price may reflect the hours of work that went into this, but its simply not even a close of the original. I'd settle for something close let alone a dead ringer. Oh well, makes the lcd mod decision easier.

#6 5 years ago

Who approved this? I'm sure someone worked hard on this, but......

#7 5 years ago

Woh... that looks horrible!

But thanks for the pics and writeup.

#8 5 years ago

So what is the price on these?

When IPB put them out it was $220 with a halogen upgrade kit. Then they went up in price on ebay before curling up into red bacon.

Is the new hologram recommended to use with the original lamp or is the halogen still alright to use?

#9 5 years ago

Wow, the detail on the new holo is sorely lacking--very disappointing. The person who did the artwork on this really got the features right. Maybe he shoulda made the model...6927285321_12d5508133_b.jpg

#10 5 years ago
Quoted from pintaculous:

I'll probably keep it as such, unless the supply from PPS drys up and somebody really needs me to sell it to them.

With quality like this I don't see the stock drying up. Thank you so much for posting this, I was on the fence on ordering this from PPS and I think I'll pass. I'm ordering the LCD mod tonight. The timing of your post couldn't have been any better!

#11 5 years ago

*EDIT*
My original post was a little negative. I try not to be negative so I deleted it. I do appreciate the time you took to post both holograms though.

#12 5 years ago

These are from Pinball Dreams in Germany ... Henrik spent alot of time and yes, it shows how challenging it is to make a 3D model from a 3D picture, etc, and I think Henrik did a great job. The alternatives have had their history of many issues. Sorry, I wish reproducing these parts were easy ...

#13 5 years ago

awful, simply awful...would have not gone through all that trouble if Duplicate Creature looked so much different than original.......pay the extra bucks get the LCD mod, you won't regret it!

#14 5 years ago

by the way ... in terms of approving them ... you cannot see the result until you are basically done ... the perspective of the 3D is captured after the expense is made to make the statue and shoot the master ... so, i'd love to hear a better way to see a result without taking the gamble on the entire project, but with 3D holograms its a little difficult.

#15 5 years ago

The fact you think its a great job, does not add confidence on the mmr project.

Come on.... This is not even close to a good job.

12
#16 5 years ago

This rework reminds me a little too much of this...

jesus reimagined.jpeg

#17 5 years ago

I for one am glad that these were made, different or not. Lots of cftbls out there with crappy or no holograms, including those still out on route, making money.

For all those putting this down......let's see what you can do.

#18 5 years ago

Thank god mine is still green! I would have to agree that it looks terrible. The detail in the face and eyes, if they were better then it would look a lot better.

I would go for the LCD screen as you have an option to have a vid of an original hologram which looks great!

My hologram has some dust on it, what should I use to clean it off? Just a bit of water and a micro fibre cloth interested to hear what restorers like HEP use.

Thanks

#19 5 years ago

I never understood why someone can't just use an existing model and create a hologram of it. Like the toy model of my avatar would be perfect

#20 5 years ago

Btw if you want to turn your cyan hologram green upgrade your normal lamp to a YELLOW halogen lamp. It helps green it up, although it will not be as bright

Hologram with normal white halogen

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#21 5 years ago

Hologram with yellow halogen lamp

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#22 5 years ago

"A" for effort but it really looks like the creech's ugly cousin instead of his twin.

The working hologram is one of those parts that is a centerpiece of the game ( toy ) and made of unobtainum unless the new look replacement part is acceptable to the buyer.

#23 5 years ago

Hi there,

Henrik here - I run pinball-dreams and we made those holos. Of course I respect your point of view but I think one should see the real product in order to estimate it. I know its very hard to make decent photos of the hologram. I made a prof. photographer shoot some photos of the holo...have a look. On the provided photos the hologram looks really flat and somewhat silly - but this surely doesn't reflect the real hologram...some photos to follow - here you can also see thousands of small details which you simply cannot shoot with an ordinary camera. Even the flashy green color is hard to shoot with an ordinary camera...so if you make up your mind on our product, please judge the real thing

Have fun and a great weekend - warm regards from Germany

Henrik

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#24 5 years ago

...and even with a prof. camera its simply impossible to get all the details with the holo installed - in real you see all of the details of the real figure....so a lack of details is something I cannot agree to - the rest of course is a mtter of personal taste. Another thing - at least over here in Europe people seem to like the outcome - we didn't receive anything else than positive feedback from our customers and we sold them not only to our friends

-6
#25 5 years ago

Yeah, I think you guys are being a little harse about this. It's not that bad, and a very needed replacement I'm glad was made available for people that enjoy this piece of shit machine

#26 5 years ago

Maybe a different model could have been used? When I first saw the repro, i thought they used this as the model to work from-

DVD-RickJamesGreatHits1.JPG
#27 5 years ago

looks awesome to me, great work.

#28 5 years ago
Quoted from Atomicboy:

Yeah, I think you guys are being a little harse about this. It's not that bad, and a very needed replacement I'm glad was made available for people that enjoy this piece of shit machine

I balance out your neg, because I got the neo reference

#29 5 years ago
Quoted from Atomicboy:

Yeah, I think you guys are being a little harse about this. It's not that bad, and a very needed replacement I'm glad was made available for people that enjoy this piece of shit machine

Respectable post, but your slander at the end ruined it.

#30 5 years ago
Quoted from Crash:

Respectable post, but your slander at the end ruined it.

Slander !? I've been pretty vocal and objective as to my findings. This was as nice as it gets for CFTBL.

But regardless of the machine, and all poking aside, I still think this is a decent replacement, and for worst case scenarios, a saving grace for many.

#31 5 years ago

It looks just fine to me and certainly better than not having one at all, or having one that turns red.

#32 5 years ago

well, it certainly looks better than the one Gene was selling at his hotel in Chicago in October. THAT was hideous.
the face/eyes area is where the problem lies. radical difference in that area.
A+ for the effort to bring at least something to market to replace a black or dark blue though.

#33 5 years ago

The model looks appropriately detailed, but their is an obvious lack of shadow detail on the hologram compared to the original regardless of who is doing the photography. Maybe the issue is how the the model was photographed.

Regardless, I applaud the effort and would have that over a dark blue or black original or the video option.

#34 5 years ago

I'd rather have a Rick James version......lol
that cracks me up.
Hey Ralph your humor is great! Thanks for making me laugh this morning. I gotta show my buddy this thread

#35 5 years ago
Quoted from ralphwiggum:

Maybe a different model could have been used? When I first saw the repro, i thought they used this as the model to work from-

DVD-RickJamesGreatHits1.JPG 19 KB

How on earth did you dig that up?

#36 5 years ago
Quoted from ralphwiggum:

DVD-RickJamesGreatHits1.JPG 19 KB

I think you've just found the first Stern funk pin...

#37 5 years ago

I'm just glad there are people willing to invest time and money to make repo parts for pinball machines.

#38 5 years ago
Quoted from Methos:

How on earth did you dig that up?

Besides my love of Progressive rock and jazz, I have a soft spot for 70s funk. That dvd cover has been burned in my head so long, that when I saw the repro, the first thing I saw was Rick James in a similar pose...

#39 5 years ago
Quoted from pintaculous:

In the end, I decided I liked the original better, even though it is blue,

I agree 100%. Give PPS (A) for effort but no dice. Original all the way.

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#40 5 years ago
Quoted from RobKnapp:

I agree 100%. Give PPS (A) for effort but no dice. Original all the way.

But I think the idea was they were trying to give everyone one better than nothing, and better than really faded.

I feel like I post this in thread at least once a week, but again Rick, I really appreciate all you make available for the community, and I hope the negative comments don't lesson what you do in the future.

#41 5 years ago
Quoted from Atomicboy:

I'm glad was made available for people that enjoy this piece of shit machine

Your opinion is of no value to me. Have a nice day.

#42 5 years ago

After looking at the model there seems to be a lot of detail and time put into this. I believe as Alveolus stated the shadow seems to be missing especially around the eyes. I wonder what this would look like if they used black around eyes and wiped the body with black to get the grooves to stand out more. If they would have painted the creature than taken pictures, this way there would be shadows in the details instead of and all white model which makes him look all green. The model really looks nice. Thanks Henrik. Keep the model maybe someday another attempt can be done using your model. I believe its missing the shadows to be more appealing. I was one of those person that bought a NOS hologram about 5 years ago and payed big bucks to have one. Mine is still real green and when it goes blue I would be on the fence either this or LCD screen!

#43 5 years ago

Just to be clear, as I said in my /Pro/ comments, I am very grateful for all the time and effort that went in to produce this hologram. No, it's not an exact reproduction of the original, but it's a very good effort, considering how difficult it must be to start from scratch. Some people might even prefer it. Was I hoping it would be better, and disappointed it wasn't? Yes and yes. Would I buy it again if my hologram was missing or trashed? In a heartbeat! Will I try to return it to PPS? No way! We've come to the point where a lot of the easy stuff has already been reproduced, and what's left is generally difficult and very expensive to remake. The White Water topper project comes to mind. As a community, I think we need to do everything we can to encourage people to invest their time, money, and reputations in remaking unobtanium parts. They are generally taking a big and expensive risk on our behalf.

And speaking about PPS: Rick himself called me this morning to see if I was OK with the hologram, and even offered to take it back, no questions asked. Now that's just plain classy, great business practice, and one hell of a nice thing to do. I feel really good about this guy and his company, and I really appreciate what they are doing for pinball. This kind of positive energy is bound to produce positive results, and we can all be grateful for that!

Morser

#44 5 years ago

I bought one and it looks great. I think it has more detail than the original one. It definitely looks a little different but so what. If you love your creech and want a green hologram I would step up.

#45 5 years ago
Quoted from Atomicboy:

But I think the idea was they were trying to give everyone one better than nothing, and better than really faded.
I feel like I post this in thread at least once a week, but again Rick, I really appreciate all you make available for the community, and I hope the negative comments don't lesson what you do in the future.

Agreed. A repro is better than nothing, and at least it's most of the way there! Anyone who hadn't seen the original would probably never think twice. Thanks for the hard work and making this available to us. When I get a Creech one day I might need this!

-1
#46 5 years ago

Wow....What a bunch of ungrateful douche nozzles. Cannot begin to understand how you can trash something based on a photo. At least you have a choice now insteasd of having to spend 800 bucks for a used one someone is price gouging on ebay.

Many thanks and much respect to all the people involved in this project.

Sorry

Rant over

#47 5 years ago
Quoted from TomN:

Wow....What a bunch of ungrateful douche nozzles. Cannot begin to understand how you can trash something based on a photo. At least you have a choice now insteasd of having to spend 800 bucks for a used one someone is price gouging on ebay.
Many thanks and much respect to all the people involved in this project.
Sorry
Rant over

Yeah, what he said.

#48 5 years ago

Nice effort. The results could have been better.

#49 5 years ago

I bought one and I´m really happy..years of tears for the hologram have the solution..not only the effort also the results..of course is not the original but it´fits perfect and the machine is nice complete and happy now.and is and hologram ,not a film...thanks henirk.

2 weeks later
#50 5 years ago

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