(Topic ID: 90591)

CFTBL fuse F116 blowing during multiball every once in a while.

By Troutfarm

9 years ago


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#1 9 years ago

Totally stumped on this one. I will be having the best game ever.. 4x brewing in the whirlpool and BAM! dmd and flippers go out and slide VUK starts firing. Anyone ever have something like this go down? It had happened a while ago then I went for months with no issues until last week.. now its happened twice pretty close together. Seems to only happen during multiball which hopefully helps to narrow down the possible culprits.

#2 9 years ago

Is one of your wires backwards on your sling shot switches?

#3 9 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Is one of your wires backwards on your sling shot switches?

not that I know of, but I will investigate.

#4 9 years ago

slings shot switches seem to be set up the same on both sides.

#5 9 years ago

I've seen when someone does a PF swap they mix up the switches so if both activate at the same time they slam tilt.

This happens, of course mostly in multiball.

=

Have you gone into switch test mode and made sure that each switch is activating the correct #?

#6 9 years ago

negative. would I be looking for two switches that are triggering the same #.. sort of makes sense because I feel like there is always a ball in the whirlpool when this happens.. but the whirlpool switch is pretty specific to add the creature letters so it seems unlikely that it would have something conflicting with it no?

#7 9 years ago

or maybe there is just something up with 2 unrelated switches firing at the same time drawing from the same source?

#8 9 years ago

Sometimes a diode cracks and can cause strange combos across the switch matrix.

Take the glass off and try to recreate (after the switch test, of course).

#9 9 years ago

Did you put any mods on it that could be drawing a lot of power when the multi ball mode starts?

#10 9 years ago

I have the color dmd.. And I believe this happened once before that.. Every other mod I have has come after this has been happening. Lit pops tied to GI, lit star posts tied also to GI.

Tested all the switches and things seems to be all good.

#11 9 years ago
Quoted from Troutfarm:

I have the color dmd.. And I believe this happened once before that.. Every other mod I have has come after this has been happening. Lit pops tied to GI, lit star posts tied also to GI.
Tested all the switches and things seems to be all good.

Got the same problem
Machine has worked without a problem for years, installed a color DMD, activate multiball and fuse blows (not every time)

#12 9 years ago

interesting..
I just recreated it with the glass off.. happend right after i hit the jackpot. but I was hitting all the switches I could so im am not sure of the exact combo that set it off. Now that I know I can recreate it I will try to really isolate the exact switches causing it. good think I have a lot of fuses.

#13 9 years ago

alright.. did it once again and filmed it.. this time not during jackpot or whirlpool. After jackpot and only pops were going. I am starting to think it is the hologram.. its going out too.. I think, at least I can see in the video that the light went out.

https://vimeo.com/94908499

#14 9 years ago

from the video. I am seeing the the GI is staying active. what I am losing is:
-DMD
-Chase lights on ramp and whirlpool
-Hologram
-Flippers
-My LED Strip in the back tied to the 12v on the coin door board up near the coin door.

and still the VUK at the Slide starts to fire every second or so.

thoughts? ideas? maybe disconnect hologram and motors and see if I can do it again?

#15 9 years ago

Same thing was going on with mine and with all the mods it was overloading the circuit and blowing fuse 116. The slide would start popping away just like yours. What hologram light are you using? I had a halogen bulb witch finally broke the camels back and was over loading the circuit.Also check the hologram motors they draw a lot of power when they are going bad and that could make the circuit overload. You could just unplug the motors and see if that works. I switched to an led bulb and now everything seems to work good now. I have been good for a few months with no problems.

#16 9 years ago

I have the halogen mod.. What is your led setup for the hologram?
That being said this was happening way before the halogen mod.. So maybe it's bad motors.

#17 9 years ago

troutfarm...this is only happening when the creature appears? if so, disconnect the holo motor and the Halogen light and see how she does.

yes this:

Quoted from Troutfarm:

maybe disconnect hologram and motors and see if I can do it again?

#18 9 years ago

I just disconnected both hologram and mirror motors, and the fuse still blew out during multiball.. next is the light, but I have to go to work so its going have to wait till tmrw now.

#19 9 years ago

I ordered a rottendog driver board based on a recommendation from a friend. I will continue to troubleshoot this until it shows up.

#20 9 years ago

Sounds like you've got a marginal +12 unregulated section.

Culprits could be multiple.

It could just be more load than the circuit was designed for. If so, you'll have to reduce the load somehow, or tie in another +12 circuit.

I don't know how much the color DMD draws, obviously you want to enjoy that as it's a majorly cool effect, and wasn't inexpensive at all..

If the Rottendog board fixes the problem, perhaps you should send the original out and have the +12 unregulated circuit examined and repaired.

#21 9 years ago
Quoted from johnwartjr:

perhaps you should send the original out and have the +12 unregulated circuit examined and repaired.

That is the plan. Creature from the Black Money Pit .

#22 9 years ago
Quoted from johnwartjr:

Sounds like you've got a marginal +12 unregulated section.
Culprits could be multiple.
It could just be more load than the circuit was designed for. If so, you'll have to reduce the load somehow, or tie in another +12 circuit.
I don't know how much the color DMD draws, obviously you want to enjoy that as it's a majorly cool effect, and wasn't inexpensive at all..
If the Rottendog board fixes the problem, perhaps you should send the original out and have the +12 unregulated circuit examined and repaired.

ColorDMD should draw between 0.5-0.6A at MED backlight setting. The current pull is mostly from the LED string that makes up the backlight. You can reduce this by around 0.15A by setting the backlight to LOW.

The LED string mod at the back of the game could be pulling a similar amount of additional current and the combination overloading the fuse when the lamp/motor kick on. Try disconnecting the LED string and see if it resolves the issue. If so, you may need to add an additional 12V supply to support the LED string.

Check TP1 and make sure it's over 13V. Then put the game in test mode, and turn on the motor and lamp. Make sure it stays over 12.5V. If it's lower than that you may have a failing bridge or capacitor on the power driver board.

#23 9 years ago

This was happening with only the color dmd, before I added anything else to the equation.

#24 9 years ago
Quoted from Troutfarm:

I have the halogen mod.. What is your led setup for the hologram?
That being said this was happening way before the halogen mod.. So maybe it's bad motors.

I went to home depot and they have an led mr16 that fits. It draws 3.3 watts and it is nice and bright. That should cut your draw down a little bit. The one you have in there is at least 20 watts and every bit counts.

#25 9 years ago

Thanks, I will pick one up. I was just wondering If you had a smaller socket setup. I will pick up one of those bulbs.

#26 9 years ago

I'd say Halogen mod is doing it, had same thing on mine and I have a s***ton of extra stuff besides yours on mine. No problem until adding the halogen, go to an LED as above. Sidenote: installed the TV mod same thing, but now powering the tv standalone and no issues.

#27 9 years ago

well.. I am gonna guess something is screwy on my board because it was happening from day one before any mods.. and it was stable for a while with everything.. hopefully the rottendog will be able to handle the power draw. I am gonna snag the halo led and hopefully everything will be peachy until I get the tv mod next round

#28 9 years ago

Still blows with new driver board. Halogen must go.

#29 9 years ago

Did you ever put your meter in Amp mode and use it in place of the fuse?

I'd be curious about the draw before the Halogen turns on.....

#30 9 years ago
Quoted from Troutfarm:

Still blows with new driver board. Halogen must go.

If you decide to sell the halogen, please let me know, I have interest and wouldn't mind saving a few bucks.

#31 9 years ago

You have the 12V unregulated circuit overloaded. It is designed with a 3 amp fuse and shouldn't run more than 80% of that (2.4 amps)

Normally in attract mode this circuit runs at .8 to 1.2 amps.

The following all use the 12V UR Circuit
Ramp lights (32 bulbs with 3/4 on at the same time 1.2 watts per bulb but not sure what the 12V draw is from the Triacs)
Hologram lamp- The original is a 1156 automotive bulb that draws 1.5 to 2.0 amps!!

At a minimum the game is already drawing 2.3 amps on that circuit when in multi-ball mode with the hologram on and the ramp lights on.

So now add the mods
Color DMD another .25 to .5 amps
LED light strip adds another .1 to .25 amps
Change the 25W incandescent hologram lamp to a 20 watt halogen will reduce the current a touch. Make sure it's not hotter than that (like a 50 watt) or change it to an 89 LED bulb and it will greatly decrease the draw.

Creature LCD mod actually decreases current draw as the monitor only uses .25 amps but you eliminate the hologram lamp.

The hologram lamp is the big current eater in this game. Changing this will open up some headroom on that circuit. Otherwise add a separate 12 V power supply and run the mods and the hologram lamp from it.

Note that normally WPC games with motors usually run the motors from the 12V circuit but it appears that the hologram motors are running from 48V AC.

The 12V circuit is easily overloaded on CFTBL, Whodunnit? and STTNG.

#32 9 years ago

thanks for that info.

#33 9 years ago
Quoted from ralphwiggum:

If you decide to sell the halogen, please let me know, I have interest and wouldn't mind saving a few bucks.

When he changes the halogen to an led he will still use the lamp receptical so there won't be any thing to sell.

#34 9 years ago

Problem solved with this. expensive bulb, but its super bright, looks great, and no more fuse problems.

and now that she is working she is up for sale. FYI

2014-05-17 16.56.55.jpg2014-05-17 16.56.55.jpg

#35 9 years ago

Sweet! 7 watt (0.6 amps) LED with equivalent light output to the 40 watt halogen (3.3 amps). You'd never be able to put a 40 watt halogen into the creature.

#36 9 years ago

Where did you get that bulb?

#37 9 years ago
Quoted from Gnatty:

Where did you get that bulb?

local light store in SF called City Lights. but I would guess with the photo i put up you can find it online.

6 months later
#38 9 years ago

Just started experiencing this problem on mine this week, did this solution work long term?

#39 9 years ago

I got one at home depot.

2 years later
#40 6 years ago

I have this same issue (after I installed my color dmd as well) and will try to find this bulb and see if it solves the issue!

#41 6 years ago

There are probably a bunch of options now for LED bulbs. Good luck.

#42 6 years ago

Well I found pretty much the same bulb you had in your pic and went to change it but it is not plug and play. Not sure why I was thinking that it was. Did you install a matching socket or just hard wire the new bulb style? Any tips? Thanks!

IMG_2442 (resized).JPGIMG_2442 (resized).JPG

#43 6 years ago
Quoted from Shenanigander:

Well I found pretty much the same bulb you had in your pic and went to change it but it is not plug and play. Not sure why I was thinking that it was. Did you install a matching socket or just hard wire the new bulb style? Any tips? Thanks!

To use that bulb you would need the pinbits upgrade kit that changes the socket type.

#44 6 years ago
Quoted from fiberdude120:

To use that bulb you would need the pinbits upgrade kit that changes the socket type.

ahhh ok cool ill look for that thanks

#45 6 years ago

Ok so after buying this $13 bulb that I could not use I just installed a 89 style bayonet based flasher led that I had in stock and it works great!

4 months later
#46 6 years ago

I had the same problem with f116 blowing during multiball after putting the color dmd in my creech. Many thanks to all the posters on this thread. Replaced the holo lamp bulb with this, https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/led-vehicle-replacement-bulbs/1156-led-bulb-w-stock-cover-36-smd-led-tower-ba15s-retrofit-car/1686/ No more blown fuse and the creature holo really pops with the new bulb.

1 week later
#47 6 years ago
Quoted from J_o_n_o:

I had the same problem with f116 blowing during multiball after putting the color dmd in my creech. Many thanks to all the posters on this thread. Replaced the holo lamp bulb with this, https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/led-vehicle-replacement-bulbs/1156-led-bulb-w-stock-cover-36-smd-led-tower-ba15s-retrofit-car/1686/ No more blown fuse and the creature holo really pops with the new bulb.

Nice. I still have never had the game reset since the bulb swap

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