Usa
Quoted from creaturemonster:Update: I received a message from another pinsider that John gave the model to another collector. He no longer has it.
What about the second one in the picture?
Congrats on your efforts BTW!
(Topic ID: 82128)
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Creature from the Black Lagoon
Bally, 1992
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Quoted from MXV:Is the person who has the original model that much of a selfish asshole that he won't let someone borrow it and use it under his watch to be able to scan the thing to make a new hologram??
From what I recall on this topic in the past, it's not that he doesn't want to "lend" it out--it's that his nobody's willing to pay his price.
Rumor is he's asking a King's Ransom.
If this is true, it's such a shame a compromise can't be reached.
Maybe presell the units or something.
Point is do something before it's too late--there's only one of them (what if it gets burned in a fire or something)...the other one might be toast IIRC.
Quoted from creaturemonster:NM I really don't know about the second model. I know the picture was taken with his daughters CFTBL machine so maybe John gave her the other model. Why two models anyway?
I researched some old favorites I had stored and found this from Martin & Pam Reynolds' site Pinbits:
"2) The master hologram has been lost (probably looked like a piece of dirty glass)
3) The original model is unavailable. It appears that The Pinball Factory has a green one, and there may be another in private hands."
Original link: http://www.iobium.com/creature_hologram.htm
Quoted from zr11990:I don't mean to be a dick here but this chaps my ass to a small degree. Henrik goes through all the trouble to have a model made and to have the Holo made and all I see or hear is people bitching that it is to expensive or it isn't exactly the same as the original. So fucking what. Its a hell of a lot better than a blue or black one or nothing at all and it actually looks better than the original. Its a wonder people go through the effort at all to put these products out. Do you really think that he would remake these things with the original after spending the money to have it made with a new model or that he had not exhausted every effort to obtain the original model?
Of COURSE it's better than nothing...this helps a lot of owners who have nothing.
Great interim part--but it shouldn't be the final replacement part for the title.
Point was/is: to strive for perfection/improvement (on the next one):
To attain a clone that's so close, it's impossible to differentiate it from the original from the playing position.
Quoted from PPS:if so, you would need almost go back to square one and modify the sculpture and then re-image the hologram
You're the man for the job.
Quoted from PPS:can you imagine how difficult (and expensive that is?),
Indeed, but 20-year old NOS WMS holograms have been consistently selling on Ebay in the $900+ ballpark last time I checked a couple years ago...perhaps they're even more now.
Point being: people WILL pony up for the original image/real hologram.
That's why I suggested if you can clone the image exactly somehow someway one day, presell them on firm commitments due in full due to the circumstances.
Henrick's effort was noble and appreciated--but IMO, until there's a 100% identical reproduction hologram...there'll always be a void in this title/in the hobby.
Quoted from PPS:Pre-selling this type of item on firm committments is a mirage in pinball parts ...
Well then obviously round-file the pre-sale idea and base a future business-decision off of this:
Quoted from PPS:Doing a hologram is probably $10K+ to do and the cost per hologram is very high (i'm not sure why but they are), so it takes alot of them to sell to make back that money ...
A $10,000 investment at $350 per unit is only 28 units sold to break even.
My guess is a lot more 28 people would purchase despite both current replacement options (7841 games produced).
Also guessing, some hobbyists would buy 2 or 3 to have a lifetime supply.
I'd take 3 myself.
Quoted from PPS:i.e. it's not gonna happen.
Ultimately your call of course--was just a future suggestion for possible improvement after current inventory is exhausted, and/or if an original statue surfaces one day--or if an identical statue is actually commissioned and sculpted (which would of course add to the final cost per unit).
Either way: a big thanks to you and Henrick for what you've provided the hobby to date.
Quoted from Hobbypinball:So whats a reproduction based off the original model worth to most? I'd still struggle at $300 a pop unless its something like $300 with a lifetime warranty or 20 years whichever comes first.
A 20-year warranty?
I don't know about Canada, but even the biggest purchase in one's lifetime--a new home--only comes in the USA with usually only a one-year warranty on everything, a three-year warranty on the plumbing and electrical--and a 10-year warranty on the foundation.
I'd be just be ecstatic to support this project to reproduce a 100% likeness of the original hologram--and appreciate any warranty the manufacturer feels is reasonable.
Thanks for stepping forward with your input Ultimategameroom!
Quoted from calvin12:28.57 units, that's if Rick wants to run them for free, and eat the cost of each hologram itself. It's way more than 28 to break even, even at $350/unit.
It was an estimate merely for discussion purposes given the numbers presented.
Of course the final price-point will ultimately be based on a ton of factors/any additional costs in an above the $10,000 number Rick cited.
Other factors include the number of games produced (7841), minus those who've already bought one of the two alternatives, minus those who'd simply want to upgrade.
The X-factor as I mentioned: buyers who'd buy multiples to have a lifetime supply of exact clones vs. buying only singles of the other two options.
Point is: I think a lot more than the hypothetical break-even estimate of 28 would be sold.
For many, only the original image will ultimately suffice and we'll support any effort.
Case in point: color me in for three Dead Ringers...that should more than last me.
Quoted from vilant:Would we adhere these new holograms right over the original, or strip the old one off and apply the new, or do we need a new bracket?
You just remove the old WMS hologram from the existing original WMS bracket and install the new reproduction in its place.
They come off pretty easily.
1 month later
Quoted from PPS:The supplier on this attempted to do exactly what is being done here ... make as close to original...
I'm sorry to say: with all due respect Rick, the final product looks nothing like the original other than its color.
Quoted from PPS:Imagine you take a risk and invest, and then we were to just say let's make another one ...
If the final result of my effort was so far off in appearance from the original, I'd actually accept that as a possibility.
Now the possibility of using the original model is a game changer—and thanks to Creaturemonster, we now know where several are. (Thanks to Ultimategameroom too for stepping forward with the news of his.)
It's more than reasonable to predict that a near-perfect result could now FINALLY be achieved with some collaboration/cooperation 
.
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