(Topic ID: 82128)

CFTBL Found photo of original model used for hologram. Need your HELP!!


By creaturemonster

5 years ago



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  • Latest reply 5 years ago by Capper96
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There are 199 posts in this topic. You are on page 3 of 4.
#102 5 years ago
Quoted from jellikit:

Ultimategameroom, pictures or it didn't happen! And make sure they are taken from multiple angles with a high-quality DSLR just for the sake of posterity.
Brad

lol wise guy

#103 5 years ago
Quoted from Acampero:

Not to derail but that why I went with this
http://s437400854.onlinehome.us/?page_id=15
Don't need no stinkin hologram.

Good thing you got one, they are all gone--no mas!

#104 5 years ago

I tried to get a hold of Jerry Pinsler the one who made the original model but unfortunately he passed away in May 1996. He made a lot of the toys for Williams and Bally machines.
I have been researching 3D holograms and found a company Zebra Imaging that would be good for this project if we can obtain a original model to use.
The hologram that was used in the original was a analog image with monochrome
There are two different ones this company has to offer.
1. Digital 3D image with monochrome
2. Digital 3D image with color
Pricing: The size we would need was $100 each for number 1 and $200 each for number 2.
I sent a email and left my phone number and will find out final cost for scanning model and making a master.
How long should they last and what kind of guarantee they offer.
The latest technology with 3D color is like having a color DMD. Pretty sweet looking.
Here is a link http://www.zebraimaging.com/products/print-a-hologram

#105 5 years ago

Pretty cool. Maybe if you got enough people to commit, there would be a discount for a group. I would be in. Would be pretty cool to have a color and monochrome one if the price was right.

#106 5 years ago

Would we adhere these new holograms right over the original, or strip the old one off and apply the new, or do we need a new bracket?

#107 5 years ago

WOW those colour holograms are amazing

-1
#108 5 years ago
Quoted from vilant:

Would we adhere these new holograms right over the original, or strip the old one off and apply the new, or do we need a new bracket?

You just remove the old WMS hologram from the existing original WMS bracket and install the new reproduction in its place.

They come off pretty easily.

#109 5 years ago

You just might be on to something really cool...

1 month later
#110 5 years ago

You guys are arguing over price and still have no model. The guy who posted on here that said he had one is just yanking chains. Has he reposted anything? No. Has he provided a picture of proof. No. Its all bullshit until someone provides proof or a picture. I'm guessing there is only one or two of these things around and the guy who posted on here isn't an owner of any one of them....

#111 5 years ago

Seems pretty simple to me....

Apparently people do want a 100% exact reproduction of the original. Can't blame them - we chase after perfection in restorations all the time in the car hobby. Personally, I do not have a CFTBL. Not my favorite title. That's just my opinion. If I did have that title, I'd certainly appreciate an exact repro of the part that has or will fail on every one of them made...

The current situation:

Someone has the original model (ultimategameroom). It is 100% up to him how to proceed. It would be nice if did help, but it's his choice. Clearly he's an enthusiast too - else why would he be here? else why would he have purchased that very special piece of memorabilia?

The risk needs to be worth the reward to model's owner. If he is so inclined, he should have the model 3D scanned.

After he has the model scanned, he could:
a) sell the scan file for whatever he wants.
b) have reproduction models 3D printed
c) go full-boat and repro the holos completely.
d) all of the above

He makes the investment. He takes the risk. He reaps the rewards. Those that want the reproduction product should be happy just to get it.

Now, if the model's owner doesn't want to take the full financial risk of having the model scanned and printed, then he could involve a financial partner. Financial partner get to participate in the reward as well.

Eyes wide open folks... don't know of any mod makers that are really making a profit. They all do it for the love of the hobby and hope to break even.

I would encourage the model's owner to have the model scanned and at lease put the scan file in a vault and in your will. This is what we do in the car collecting hobby after researching a special car for years. All the paperwork and all the vintage photos are scanned and entrusted to a second and third custodian with instructions on what do with them in the event the primary research is no longer among us. Some things are too important to be lost.

-Brian

#112 5 years ago

The problem is a person who's handle is ultimategameroom came on here and made a statement saying that he had one of the models. Maybe he does and maybe he doesn't but the fact remains that he hasn't even provided a picture of it or any other proof for that matter. Any one of us could have come on here and said the same thing. I personally don't believe the story and think its bs.

#113 5 years ago
Quoted from FishPharm:

The problem is a person who's handle is ultimategameroom came on here and made a statement saying that he had one of the models. Maybe he does and maybe he doesn't but the fact remains that he hasn't even provided a picture of it or any other proof for that matter. Any one of us could have come on here and said the same thing. I personally don't believe the story and think its bs.

He doesn't need to prove anything. It doesn't matter. Not trying to be argumentative.
My statements and suggestions remain valid regardless of whoever owns the model(s).

-Brian

#114 5 years ago

Ok anyone who interested in a exact hologram. I talked to Zebra Imaging and they could make a monochrome hologram (would look like the original) if we order 100 copies or more they would image the creature statue free. So the cost would be around $50 each. They could do a color hologram for $75 each. I would be in for one of each if this happens. The hologram would last for many years. They advise to keep hologram out of direct sunlight to last longer. So he said they should last 10 to 20 years for our situation.
The PROBLEM:
1. Rick informed me I would need to obtain a license to have these made. Not sure if he would give a license to
make these and how much added cost for each hologram?
2. Obtaining a original model. If we can borrow one of the five models out there to make this. I tried to contact ultimategameroom but never heard back. As of a couple months ago John Trudeau still has his model in the closet. The added cost to scan,paint and make model.

If anyone out there wants to sell there original hologram model let me know first. I would be willing to purchase your model. I am not in this for money so the model would be use to make another original hologram for the holy grail owners.

#115 5 years ago

it's a shame that we can't make one from an original as I recently acquired this (brand new, still sealed in the original package direct from williams):
IMG_1137.jpg

#116 5 years ago
Quoted from creaturemonster:

It would last for many years. They advise to keep the hologram out of direct sunlight to last longer.

Quoted from j_m_:

I recently acquired an OEM hologram (brand new, still sealed in the original Williams package).

Yours looks just like my OEM hologram, which I have stored inside a box kept away from all light sources for the last 18 years now. I've decided to install the MikeD kit and keep saving the OEM hologram.

#117 5 years ago

Weren't these just done by PPS?

#118 5 years ago
Quoted from TomGWI:

Weren't these just done by PPS?

Sort of.... They gave it the ole' college try.

#119 5 years ago

If you were able to get this from one of the originals I would purchase one or two of each.

Quoted from creaturemonster:

Ok anyone who interested in a exact hologram. I talked to Zebra Imaging and they could make a monochrome hologram (would look like the original) if we order 100 copies or more they would image the creature statue free. So the cost would be around $50 each. They could do a color hologram for $75 each. I would be in for one of each if this happens. The hologram would last for many years. They advise to keep hologram out of direct sunlight to last longer. So he said they should last 10 to 20 years for our situation.
The PROBLEM:
1. Rick informed me I would need to obtain a license to have these made. Not sure if he would give a license to
make these and how much added cost for each hologram?
2. Obtaining a original model. If we can borrow one of the five models out there to make this. I tried to contact ultimategameroom but never heard back. As of a couple months ago John Trudeau still has his model in the closet. The added cost to scan,paint and make model.
If anyone out there wants to sell there original hologram model let me know first. I would be willing to purchase your model. I am not in this for money so the model would be use to make another original hologram for the holy grail owners.

#120 5 years ago
Quoted from creaturemonster:

Ok anyone who interested in a exact hologram. I talked to Zebra Imaging and they could make a monochrome hologram (would look like the original) if we order 100 copies or more they would image the creature statue free. So the cost would be around $50 each. They could do a color hologram for $75 each. I would be in for one of each if this happens. The hologram would last for many years. They advise to keep hologram out of direct sunlight to last longer. So he said they should last 10 to 20 years for our situation.
The PROBLEM:
1. Rick informed me I would need to obtain a license to have these made. Not sure if he would give a license to
make these and how much added cost for each hologram?
2. Obtaining a original model. If we can borrow one of the five models out there to make this. I tried to contact ultimategameroom but never heard back. As of a couple months ago John Trudeau still has his model in the closet. The added cost to scan,paint and make model.
If anyone out there wants to sell there original hologram model let me know first. I would be willing to purchase your model. I am not in this for money so the model would be use to make another original hologram for the holy grail owners.

That's more like it - at $50 each - give another $25 to whoever holds the rights. $75 charge to me - put me down for 2 heck 3. As per the previous attempts at $300 (and my previous posts) - I'll take zerio - unless it is "exactly" like original and comes with 15 year guarantee

#121 5 years ago
Quoted from Hobbypinball:

That's more like it - at $50 each - give another $25 to whoever holds the rights. $75 charge to me - put me down for 2 heck 3. As per the previous attempts at $300 (and my previous posts) - I'll take zerio - unless it is "exactly" like original and comes with 15 year guarantee

Couldn't say it any better...

#122 5 years ago

at $75 I'll take 6 of them. And I don't own a creech at the moment.

#123 5 years ago

Definitely interested in an exact replica of the original. Hope you continue to pursue this.

#124 5 years ago

If these replicas become reality, I am definitely in for 2.

#125 5 years ago

Your talking price and you don't have a model to use?

#126 5 years ago
Quoted from ralphwiggum:

That's more like it - at $50 each - give another $25 to whoever holds the rights. $75 charge to me - put me down for 2 heck 3. As per the previous attempts at $300 (and my previous posts) - I'll take zerio - unless it is "exactly" like original and comes with 15 year guarantee

Couldn't say it any better...

I would say spelling "zero" correctly would be better.

#127 5 years ago
Quoted from Budfan:

If these replicas become reality, I am definitely in for 2.

Me to. Or should I say TWO

-2
#128 5 years ago
Quoted from creaturemonster:

Ok anyone who interested in a exact hologram. I talked to Zebra Imaging and they could make a monochrome hologram (would look like the original) if we order 100 copies or more they would image the creature statue free. So the cost would be around $50 each. They could do a color hologram for $75 each. I would be in for one of each if this happens. The hologram would last for many years. They advise to keep hologram out of direct sunlight to last longer. So he said they should last 10 to 20 years for our situation.
The PROBLEM:
1. Rick informed me I would need to obtain a license to have these made. Not sure if he would give a license to
make these and how much added cost for each hologram?
2. Obtaining a original model. If we can borrow one of the five models out there to make this. I tried to contact ultimategameroom but never heard back. As of a couple months ago John Trudeau still has his model in the closet. The added cost to scan,paint and make model.
If anyone out there wants to sell there original hologram model let me know first. I would be willing to purchase your model. I am not in this for money so the model would be use to make another original hologram for the holy grail owners.

First, I would be really skeptical to make an original same resolution, same color for $50. I've talked with most hologram places in the US and that is not consistent, so we would end up with another 'cheap' version (like IPB's lenticular version, etc).

Second, there would need to be permission from WMS licensee (us) as well as Universal, so that costs alot of money in terms of royalties and pre-payment and I doubt that is going to come, especially paid before the product is made.

Third, there is a suitable product out there, so the interest and demand will not materialize (if ever) for years to be able to sell a certain number that makes any business model work.

Sorry to put water on the parade, but I doubt I will see a proposal that satisfies the above topics which would be required to get me interested ...

rick

#129 5 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

Second, there would need to be permission from WMS licensee (us) as well as Universal, so that costs alot of money in terms of royalties and pre-payment and I doubt that is going to come, especially paid before the product is made.

So when the topic of if MB will ever be a remake, people say why not - "the rights are cheap". "Look at all the monsters paraphernalia out there"

But every time a holo repro comes up its "expensive" or as you've said "costs a lot of money". So what is it? I call BS so here's my opinion - The more I come to read about this project and why it never gets off the ground or we end up with a half baked result is it seems to simply boil down to someones greed and or politics vs actual cost and technical challenges.

But hey - its all about Karma at some point. So best of luck to all those involved with the rights and the models. This has become such a joke. With all the other parts, repros, bloody entire games being rebuilt - Its completely stupid to think the reason this project hasn't gotten off the ground is related to any other reason than politics, greed, or combination there of. Its a damn foil hologram. Same technology thats stamped onto every credit card or pack of sports cards out there.

rant for the day done

#130 5 years ago

"Suitable product out there" ??? Eh, is that some kind of an endorsement?

#131 5 years ago
Quoted from fosaisu:

Not sure if this is accurate -- at least from what Rick posted earlier in this thread, it sounds like there's a substantial cost to produce each individual hologram in addition to the startup costs.

not really, the initial setup is all thats expensive for a traditional hologram

also everyone saying that it has to be exactly like the original, that simply will never happen, legalities aside (sigh) you can't "photocopy" a hologram, they don't work that way...

even if you got the original model you would have to get the model in the exact same position, hit it with the same wavelength, mode and divergence lasers through the same type of lenses onto the same type of holographic film... aka not going to happen

#132 5 years ago
Quoted from flecom:

not really, the initial setup is all thats expensive for a traditional hologram
also everyone saying that it has to be exactly like the original, that simply will never happen, legalities aside (sigh) you can't "photocopy" a hologram, they don't work that way...
even if you got the original model you would have to get the model in the exact same position, hit it with the same wavelength, mode and divergence lasers through the same type of lenses onto the same type of holographic film... aka not going to happen

you and your reality check!

#133 5 years ago
Quoted from ABT12:

"Suitable product out there" ??? Eh, is that some kind of an endorsement?

I think "A somewhat close to the original" might be a little nearer to what PPS offers. Then again, maybe Rick was referring to Pinball Mike's video replacement--which is certainly suitable...

#134 5 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

First, I would be really skeptical to make an original same resolution, same color for $50. I've talked with most hologram places in the US and that is not consistent, so we would end up with another 'cheap' version (like IPB's lenticular version, etc).
Second, there would need to be permission from WMS licensee (us) as well as Universal, so that costs alot of money in terms of royalties and pre-payment and I doubt that is going to come, especially paid before the product is made.
Third, there is a suitable product out there, so the interest and demand will not materialize (if ever) for years to be able to sell a certain number that makes any business model work.
Sorry to put water on the parade, but I doubt I will see a proposal that satisfies the above topics which would be required to get me interested ...
rick

tl;dr "Even if you figure this out, PPS will sue you anyway."
Thumbs down for PPS being the reason we can't have nice things.

#135 5 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

Third, there is a suitable product out there, so the interest and demand will not materialize (if ever) for years to be able to sell a certain number that makes any business model work.
Sorry to put water on the parade, but I doubt I will see a proposal that satisfies the above topics which would be required to get me interested ...
rick

I don't agree with the third statement. I don't own a Creature, but if I did, I wouldn't put the current replacement hologram in my machine. It might be better than nothing, but I'd wait around until something better came along.

#136 5 years ago

The supplier on this attempted to do exactly what is being done here ... make as close to original, and invested ALOT of money and time for which has not been recovered. I'm really not inclined to roll the dice on another 'try' and submarine the existing product and bury the supplier's investment - sometimes things just work out that way. Imagine you take a risk and invest, and then we were to just say let's make another one ... I want these suppliers not to learn that we undermine their investment in parts as otherwise we will have less of anything ... sorry. When we get rid of the bulk of these holograms we can try for something better ... but it's not as easy as just creating another hologram - IPB did exactly that and look where that ended up ... it's just not that simple nor are these 'prices' including all of the costs that it takes to make something real ... rick

#137 5 years ago

The only suitable replacement in my opinion is the LCD mod. I won't spend money on a hologram that doesn't look right. If someone could get their hands on one of the models I'm confident that a suitable hologram could be made at a reasonable price.

#138 5 years ago
Quoted from FishPharm:

The only suitable replacement in my opinion is the LCD mod.

The nice thing about opinions it that everyone can have their own I personally disagree with you. I'll never put a current-style LCD/LED/Plasma/whatever in my Creech. Ever. No matter how feature rich they may be. Flat is flat and the "See the amazing creature in 3D!" just doesn't work with a flat image. Now I may be convinced once glasses free 3d screens are used, but not before then.

Thankfully my hologram is still good, but I know it won't last forever. When the time comes I would purchase either a still-good original (If I can find one being sold at that time) or whatever best hologram repro is on the market $300+ or not... it wouldn't matter to me 'cause Creech needs a hologram!

#139 5 years ago

Luckily, my hologram still looks good also but there is no way I would pay over $300 for the current replacement hologram. The amount of time you even see it is minimal anyway.

#140 5 years ago
Quoted from Hobbypinball:

So when the topic of if MB will ever be a remake, people say why not - "the rights are cheap". "Look at all the monsters paraphernalia out there"

But every time a holo repro comes up its "expensive" or as you've said "costs a lot of money". So what is it? I call BS

There's a big difference between the markup and what you can charge for an entire pinball game, vs a piece of film.

Let's say the rights are $200 a machine, just for the sake of argument. That's not that bad, you can absorb that in the cost of $6500, or $8000 or whatever the remake might cost. If you have a hologram that normally needs to retail for say $200, and now it's $400 instead? That's a big deal. I'm making the numbers up, but you see my point I'm sure.

The people who won't pay over $300 will walk away and you're left with an expensive investment.

#141 5 years ago

Exactly. It may only truly be "worth it" if the machine itself is reproed (unlikely), because doing that, using Aurich's example numbers, it'll cost $200+/- for the license pr machine but additional spare parts could somehow get worked into the contract at little to no cost through some special wear and tear replacement part clause or something. Now those hologram replacements could be sub $200 instead of $400+.

This is one of the reasons why some replacement parts WMS once supplied were cheaper then what reproductions supply now.

#142 5 years ago

here is a pic to shut up the doubtersdisplaycase.JPG

#143 5 years ago

Does anybody have an electron microscope? ^^

#144 5 years ago
Quoted from Linolium:

Exactly. It may only truly be "worth it" if the machine itself is reproed (unlikely), because doing that, using Aurich's example numbers, it'll cost $200+/- for the license pr machine but additional spare parts could somehow get worked into the contract at little to no cost through some special wear and tear replacement part clause or something. Now those hologram replacements could be sub $200 instead of $400+.
This is one of the reasons why some replacement parts WMS once supplied were cheaper then what reproductions supply now.

Its a foil. its not a reproduction of a part - no manufacturing. Kind of like saying to get a poster you'd need to incorporate the cost of the manufacturing of the printer. No - you just need to allow for the ink and the operators mark up of creating the print. I'd imagine the original poster that tracked down the numbers and got quotes for the foil printing allowed for that.

#145 5 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

First, I would be really skeptical to make an original same resolution, same color for $50. I've talked with most hologram places in the US and that is not consistent, so we would end up with another 'cheap' version (like IPB's lenticular version, etc).
Second, there would need to be permission from WMS licensee (us) as well as Universal, so that costs alot of money in terms of royalties and pre-payment and I doubt that is going to come, especially paid before the product is made.
Third, there is a suitable product out there, so the interest and demand will not materialize (if ever) for years to be able to sell a certain number that makes any business model work.
Sorry to put water on the parade, but I doubt I will see a proposal that satisfies the above topics which would be required to get me interested ...
rick

First, This is not a original analog resolution that was used on the first hologram. This company makes there hologram in digital format which better than the original. This company was the first to make a color hologram. This is 2014 technology at work. So I believe this would be a better hologram than the original. As for cost they would cut the price to $25 a hologram in monochrome if we ordered a 1000 and $50 a hologram for the colored if a 1000 were ordered.
Second, Lets say we only make a Limited Edition only 100 monochrome and 100 colored holograms. No more to satisfy this small group that would like to see a original model hologram. What would the license and royalties cost us per hologram? So only 200 holograms being made.
Third, For the non suitable product. This would be for the group that would not buy the hologram that is out there are put Mikes mod in there creature.
Well we now know there are models out there that this could be done. So that is my proposal.

#146 5 years ago

Anyone smart enough to make these should also be smart enough to set up a sham overseas ebay acount and blow them out in short spurts of 30-50 at a time and then go into hiding for a few months.

Plenty of ways to operate in the grey and make it not worth the time of those that want to chase you

#147 5 years ago
Quoted from Whysnow:

Anyone smart enough to make these should also be smart enough to set up a sham overseas ebay acount and blow them out in short spurts of 30-50 at a time and then go into hiding for a few months.
Plenty of ways to operate in the grey and make it not worth the time of those that want to chase you

good one Hilton ... I guess advocating that people break the law if they can't have their way is the moral high ground ...

#148 5 years ago
Quoted from PPS:

good one Hilton ... I guess advocating that people break the law if they can't have their way is the moral high ground ...

When the market ignores the will of the consumer, the consumer begins to look for other options. I feel bad for the supplier of the hologram, but the process should have been halted until a proper model was crafted. The model used was not even close IMHO.

#149 5 years ago
Quoted from jkdblaze:

When the market ignores the will of the consumer, the consumer begins to look for other options.

That's what happened with downloading music.

Consumers wanted to be able to instantly download new music.

The record companies dragged their feet, ignoring an enormous market.

Consumers started pirating .mp3s.

It took a forward thinking computer company, Apple, to actually give the consumer what they wanted.

Now, anywhere in the world I can download a song to my phone for .99 cents --- was that so hard?

#150 5 years ago
Quoted from Aurich:

There's a big difference between the markup and what you can charge for an entire pinball game, vs a piece of film.
Let's say the rights are $200 a machine, just for the sake of argument. That's not that bad, you can absorb that in the cost of $6500, or $8000 or whatever the remake might cost. If you have a hologram that normally needs to retail for say $200, and now it's $400 instead? That's a big deal. I'm making the numbers up, but you see my point I'm sure.
The people who won't pay over $300 will walk away and you're left with an expensive investment.

Why would it cost any more to secure the rights to print the creature holo from Universal or whoever any more than these?

amazon.com link »

amazon.com link »

Yes - there would need to be additional rights paid to who holds the model, but should it be hundreds of dollars or tens? That would be up to them to decide I guess, but it all takes me back to my original thought. Politics and or greed are the only things in the way of making this successful. Someone is trying to get rich off of this along the way - and i'm not sure its the guys that are trying to reproduce it. It hasn't worked at charging $300+ per holo - maybe someone should try a different tact and they might make some money. In my mind it is simple - you cannot hold someone hostage to a $300+ holo and not give a 15 or 20 year assurance the holo will last. If someone will sell me one that looks like the original and will stand behind it for the same amount of time as the originals have lasted then I'll happily fork over my 300. If you will not stand behind the product then we're back down under the $100. And that's where the BS kicks in. The rights owners (PPS and the model owner in this case) would appear to want to make a wack off of money off the rights they own AND assume no risk. They reap all the reward. The guy taking on the printing is assuming all the risk along with the buyer while doing all the work. So again - politics and greed. God this project pisses me off.

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