Just added this forum, although I've had CFTBL for several years now.

The pin was in storage for a few years. (Have to rotate 'em In / Out, as space is always an issue. I've never been willing to turn the residence into an arcade . . . . ) Anyway, upon the recent rotation, I discovered that this pin had alkaline batteries in the *stand-off holder* -- something I normally avoid, but in this case was an oversight -- and that *one* of those batteries had leaked. I cleaned out the green gunk residue with a brush, as best I could, although perhaps not completely enough. I replaced the three batteries with Lithium ones. But now I'm finding that Settings and High Scores do not stick; turning the game on immediately shows a reversion to Factory Settings message, which is annoying. I've heard tell of *a possibility* of acid damage traveling outward along the wiring. What do I need to look for or test ? What is my next move . . . besides cleaning out any (small) remaining trace of the green residue with isopropyl alcohol ? The game seems to be operating normally, apart from the above issue.

A secondary question: How do you go about deleting / replacing High Scores from a previous owner ? Whatever is going on, *those* seem to have survived.

I don't know whether it is still on the market, or whether it was any good , but I seem to recall seeing a mod available that would replace the standard hologram with a video clip. (Presumably this was derived from one of the CFTBL movies ? There was at least one sequel, BTW.) My hologram remains more than satisfactory, but I'd be curious to learn whether the aforementioned mod was considered any good by owners who tried it, and if there is any current market status info for it.

A couple years ago, I recall seeing a (home-made; sculpted ?) creature topper, with red eyes that lit up, which was being sold on eBay. Generally speaking, I tend to go thumbs down on most game mods. Someone local who seems to be pretty competent doing most of his own repairs put in some CFTBL mod -- it may have involved the speakers ?, or some display feature between the backglass and scoring panel ? -- and this ended up vying for electric power, to the detriment of some standard game functions. I've heard that this is not an uncommon result. And that has added to my being leery of the whole mod idea, which can easily cross over into distraction and overkill. (I expect there could be exceptions to that, case by case.)

One game that I bought had had a couple mods done by the previous owner, but they were not the type to run afoul of anything.

Thanks. In case it was not clear, the batteries were in a separate battery holder, removed from any boards. I'm going to have my regular tech check that situation out.

Would like to find more info on that MikeD mod, for reference, even if it's no longer available. The price on that European one does not necessarily deter me . . . but I'm basically allergic to the idea of major surgery: whether for the person, or for something mechanical. If it ain't seriously broke . . . .

The White Water animated waterfall one has to be one of the most attractive I've ever seen. Reminded me of a similar effect animated beer sign that you'd see at some bars, back in the day. There were several of those using the same theme, but one of them really stood out over the others. Can't remember the brand.

Incidentally, and more CFTBL-oriented, I am liking the hologram mod for it that is being sold in the Marketplace here,

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/shops/1032-lighted-pinball-mods/04567-creature-from-the-black-lagoon-pinball-hologram-topper.

(I did not care to go mucking around in the guts of the machine, so I went with the hanging Wall Art portion of the kit, rather than the topper one. It's great that a choice exists.) Some of the video clips seen so far are better and more detailed than others, but you can acquire other clips for other games in various ways. I'm trying to find out what the maximum clips resolution might be. This is already seemingly well beyond the tech of a few years ago, but I think it may have more potential still.

[Duplicated post error, deleted.]

Thanks ! You know, I was thinking "Hamm's" as a best guess . . . but I did not want to trust my memory on that, as it reaches back to a time well before I had reached legal drinking age. And that's quite some time ago. So I'm glad you were able to confirm it.

Where would you go looking for one of those ? eBay, Etsy, or somewhere more specialized ? Did their components last, so that it could be possible to find one today in good working order ?

On the first of those, you wouldn't order a pricey item like this (even if the price didn't bother you) from someone with zero feedback history . . . or, at least I wouldn't.

I was never clear on what that "HSTD" in the menus meant, assuming that it had something to do with histograms. Now that I visit it in the menus, making adjustments to it doesn't seem all that clear to me either.

I sent a PM to MikeD to inquire as to whether there could be any subsequent production run on his holo mod (it seems that that should be as much of a good candidate for one as any other that's been done ?), but I don't know whether he remains active on Pinside and would see it.

I checked at a bunch of the leading dealers, and the Cliffy for the snack bar hole is Out of Stock everywhere I looked. WHO may still have these in stock ? Is there any good prospect for ordering it from Cliffy directly ?

An update on some recent fixes -- today in fact:
Had new Squawk & Talk + Reverb cards put in. Huge improvement ! The Centaur now enunciates clearly, and at the proper speed.

Put the double rubber setup at the 1/2/3/4 Drops. (Also much better leveled the table.) We'll see how much of a fix for stuck balls this provides. My tech said you can't really raise the "resting / down" height of these targets as any standard adjustment; this would require placing some sort of shim, thinner foam or cardboard cutout insert beneath the targets. (As was mentioned in regard to a couple of other games sharing this issue for their drops.) Will get to that next, if the other adjustment proves insufficient.

Fixit Update: Acid damage evident throughout the stand-off battery holder. Much of it could not even be seen without removing the holder for inspection. Had it replaced with a new battery holder. There was no wider damage, thankfully. Settings stick now. All should be well.

Thanks very much, will check that out.

That was my recollection. A few years back, one of my motors for the holo had to be replaced. It was available then, and I hope that is still the case.

One of the things that can apparently deteriorate over time is the hue of the holo: it can get more blue, when I think it's supposed to be green. (?) Given that the MikeD mod seems to be history at this point, I'd like to hear ratings for the alternatives that remain -- apart from that one from Europe that to me at least seems excessively surgically complex. That is not the sort of mod that appeals to me. I think I've seen one or two "more standard" holo replacements being sold. I'd just want to know whether there is something that looks very comparable to the original.

If I was correct regarding the color shift over time described two posts above, is there then no corrective that could be applied to the photo transparency, or whatever it is under the pf ? If that is indeed what it was, it seems like some skilled photographer could be able to manufacture a very close replacement likeness ?

O.K. -- Mantis vs. Cliffy for this ? What's to choose between them ?

[https://www.pinballlife.com/creature-from-the-black-lagoon-hole-protector.html}

Thanks. Both of them installed to the Snack Bar hole then ?
At least one of those is sold as a set of two inserts, though I'm unsure what *other* ball Entrance / Exit on the pf might be in need of protection ?

If the wood damage is not too bad (I could try to take some pix), what would be the best pre-installation approach for the protectors, to get the wood in the best possible shape ?

My tech, who also oversees a fair number of routed games, has said that he's seen Cliffys break under use. So they may be helpful, but should not be considered an absolute answer.

j_m, any chance for photos of how that dual install should look ?

Wasn't aware of that being an option, and already ordered from Planet, but I can do that on any subsequent orders for other games. I think some other pins I have may be candidates.

Thanks, j_m_. From what I thought I may have seen, and from part of your post, my impression is that Stern (and maybe others) began to design factory protection into the scoop holes for a number of latter day games. But not as any widespread, standard policy: for example, I saw either a Cliffy or a Mantis being offered for sale for Rick & Morty.

This doesn't light up, move at all, or anything -- right ?
Looks quite good in the pix, and I might have had some serious interest, but bidding on this item has already topped $400., with 3 days left to go, so I'm OUT. Where this is apt to finish will exceed my level of interest. (For the record, I rarely find the color DMDs to be worth what they cost either -- though some of them seem better than others.)

Just had my tech install the Cliffy + Mantis for the Snack Bar hole. Your comments and pix were helpful, so thanks again. It looked as though there was going to be a problem: the ball would hang up, get stuck, not pass through. Spacing too tight inside, I guess. It seems that my tech was able to work around this, using washers to give a bit more offset and enhance the interior space. Time will tell about that. I took some pix of the extent of hole damage before this retrofit. That was on the low side I hope, but I should be able to post them.

We discovered that the hole damage at the KISS hole was slightly worse than at the Snack Bar. Turns out the Cliffy did not come as a set, like the Mantis did, so I'll need to obtain another Cliffy. Is it the same exact Cliffy as for the Snack Bar hole, or a different one ? And I suppose this will be another Cliffy + Mantis job, just like for the Snack Bar ?

O.K., then I need the right Cliffy catalog #.

It may be too soon to tell -- not enough plays yet -- but an early impression is that some shots to the Snack Bar hole that used to go in are now bouncing off. The more straight on, direct shots, as opposed to less direct ones, which are going in. We got the forward lip of the Cliffy as flush with the pf as can be. Is this the unavoidable tradeoff for protection ?

Only 3,700 made . . . when I looked that up, I had thought that # was going to be higher. Less than half that many for Centaur II. I had long been hearing that Centaur was an arcade staple, with many having seen them and played them. And I contrasted that with many titles that I'd never seen anywhere, until PHOF or Banning.

My prediction proved true. Nice looking item, but glad it was an instant El Paso for me, even at the then $410.
So, out of curiosity, what was the original price NIB, when first on the market ?

Well, more than just general inflation it seems !
At least it doesn't require electrical support . . . ?
As I probably mentioned, there was another one being sold on eBay some time ago, a more standard topper where the eyes lit up. And I think the price was still a fraction of that eBay auction close.

Interesting, nicely realized, rather unusual . . . but my long-distance telepathy is not working this morning: WHAT website ?

Also would like to see more details, like where and how these might be installed ? pf lighting for better viewing of them ?

@ DaveTheTrain,

Sorry to interject this downer of a note, but I'm getting closer to a decision at the opposite end of the scale. I've had my CFTBL for several years now, and it is in uncommonly good condition in most every department and working very well, but playing it is a source of seemingly endless frustration, and I'll probably be looking to sell it sometime in 2023. I was apparently better at playing it some time ago, but these days my results on it mostly suck. It is a major Drain Monster of its time. I've gotten so very tired of watching and hearing "FOCUS !" I knew another Creech owner who got so tired of this that he actually taped off the Outlanes -- which is decidedly Not Cricket ! I don't approve of his drastic measures, but I now understand. Instead, I've set mine as a 5-ball game, with otherwise liberal settings, including Replay Level One at 100 Mil., which is half the factory setting. But still No Joy, even though I probably earn an extra ball about 1 game out of every 4 or 5. A Jackpot hit is VERY rare for me, and I can't even get to this 100 Mil. level with a 6-ball game, except very rarely. I own some pins that thwart me every bit as much in terms of degree of success in playing them, yet they *still* manage to keep me coming back for more, time after time. Three games worth of Creech in a day and I'm done ! (Not playing it every day, either.) Intangibles ? The challenges from those OTHER pins are in my judgement comparable, though the enjoyment factor most certainly is not. And WHY keep a game if you're not enjoying it ?! The hologram was one of those unique features people remember, not visited again in pins -- so far as I know -- until the mini-projection one in GB. But it's not enough of an offset for me, nor as a collector. And I can think of a number of games that I'd much rather have.

If anyone reading this is interested, I'm much more inclined to sell it locally (or regionally), but otherwise not until Spring weather is solidly in place. Never mind full insurance: I don't believe in shipping games while there is snow or ice anywhere along the route. (This has definitely cost me in the past, in losing out on games that I could have purchased, during the Winter months.) The added uncertainty is just not worth the risk to me. You can Google footage of a big rig tumbling over the side of an overpass on the 14 freeway north of L.A. recently and bursting into flame, if you need any illustration of my position on this. THAT was merely in a rainstorm -- no snow or ice required !

Nevertheless, best of luck to you on your restoration project. Hope it all turns out splendidly, and that you derive a lot of enjoyment from the results.

Just had Cliffy + Mantis installed for the KISS hole, having previously had that done a week or more ago for the Snack Bar hole. Maybe this will be just throwing good money after bad, in view of how I feel about the game overall, but I already had the parts. Maybe it would be a plus for resale, don't know about that really. While this was underway, I had my tech reposition the outlane posts to their "most liberal", but already-on-the-pf hole positions, as opposed to the standard (least favorable) ones. This in theory should narrow the outlane drain prospects, which ran about 65 / 35 vs. the SDTM ones. And that should still be kosher, since Bally provided it as an option in the manufacture. It remains to be seen whether or not this will alter the "sucks at playing this" factor to any meaningful degree, but -- Who Knows ? -- perhaps it holds some potential for impacting my decision on getting rid of this pin.

Regarding hole or scoop wood damage, something game owners might not have thought of, and not just for CFTBL: in many cases this is difficult to assess, because it is hidden from view, due to ramps or other parts above that would have to be removed in order to gain a decent view. (Or lifting the pf up, to see it from the other side.) For those situations, go to CVS or Walgreens and pick up a dental mirror. That should reach small, inaccessible places, often revealing what you wanted to see -- a useful addition to the pinball tools set. Not in every case though, such as the KISS hole, which has longer, curved pf parts above.

Would like to see more info about this alternative Creature display, provided that (unlike the MikeD mod) it may still be available.

Not quite sure how one "steps away from pinball" ? It's definitely a calling, perhaps even an addiction . . . .

Being mostly old-school about these things, I've put away a decent stock of the more common incandescents, but I don't recall seeing the colored ones. Where do you order those ?

One thing that has always remained unclear on mine (garbled ? mumbled ? slurred ?) is the "Use the Snack Bar" callout for restart of MB. You don't really know for sure WHAT it's saying. Is that particular sound glitch pretty common ? With Centaur, I replaced both of the two sound boards, and all the slurred or wrong-speed speech cleared up very nicely. It would be great if there was as simple and straightforward a fix like that for CFTBL. Prefer one that does not deviate from factory spec. If Pinsound is one of those many mods which require additional tie-ins for electrical support, it would be of much less interest to me. Also, if CFTBL is not going to be a longer term keeper for me -- which is a possibility -- I may have neared the end of being willing to put more $$ into it.

Thanks for the link. Their website appears non-functional at the moment: nothing selected will show up in the order Cart, "Contact Us" brings up an apology, mentioning a move to a new website under development but no updated URL. I wrote to them a few days ago, but no reply so far. Their catalog looked extensive, but navigating for what you want was rather trial & error. So far, I found mention of 4 colors of the #555 incandescent there. Were there additional color options for this ?

[Negative on phone message left as well, so things are looking more amiss here. Have they ceased operations ? Anyway, may need to check for these at other suppliers.]

[Never Mind: just got the callback and am placing the order with them. Website is still under construction. They have 5 varieties of #555, including a flashing amber. I did find that Marco had 4 colors, available as Elko 10-bulb multi-packs, which may come in handy for some but seems around double of what I'm likely to need. {I'd still like to find one in Purple.} The lady from Bulbtown -- which is in FL., btw. -- advises me that production -- or possibly even sale ? -- of incandescent bulbs in the U.S. is slated to end 6/'23. (The miniature bulbs for pinball machines are probably exempted from this.) So, it's NOT ONLY our notorious "Nanny State" that is intrusively minding our business on such things, along with phasing out gas stoves and appliances, etc. If you happen to be an incandescent-light-fancier and quasi-Luddite like me, time to Stock Up !]

[posting error: disregard]
How do we zap one of these completely ?

[posting error: disregard]

They were out of stock at the link where I checked. (From earlier in the forum thread, but can't recall now.) So, which vendors have these in stock currently ?

Please keep us posted on further developments. Personally -- and this assumes that I wind up keeping this game, which is far from certain -- I'm not really up for a solution of the Raspberry Pi or mini-monitor under pf variety. But if it's other than that, and more duplicative of how the original hologram looked and behaved, then I'd find that more of interest.

No knock intended on any other solutions out there, but I still don't see why someone (photo studio ?) could not simply duplicate the original transparency (or whatever it is) ? We'd still have the question of availability on the 2 motors that operate it, but this could be the cheaper, more organic fix ? And having different options is usually a good thing.

I was thinking in terms of *avoiding* the need for any reconstruction: for either a Raspberry Pi *or* a mini-LCD monitor going into the assembly path. This presumes that the two motors remain functional. It also skips having to synchronize anything else with code / gameplay. The most simple solution, and should cost the least. But these aforementioned conditions had to fall into place. AFAIK, that photographic element seems to be just an oversized slide, like some of us might have shot on Ektachrome, back in the days of Nikon etc. SLR film cameras, before photography went digital. Not exactly common current day tech, but you could still find some photography pros who were well enough versed in it. Hopefully there are still some labs around -- or personal basement labs -- that are capable of handling film. (I mean, as with movies, there are still a small handful of people like Christopher Nolan who shoot them on film. Has larger format like IMAX gone digital ? Probably, but not sure.)

Anyway, once you start talking about video clips, you are basically back into MikeD mod territory.

Thanks to you and to Manny65 for those links. (Such direct URLs are always appreciated, since my luck with Pinside thread searches tends to be spotty.) Looks like I have a fair amount of reading there, in order to get caught up. But in quickly noting that those posts range from 6 - 9 years old, that can't be a good indication on the status. OTOH, if Bally was able to manufacture those transparencies decades ago, and in quantity, the process ought not to be rocket science . . . .

Air balls (off the glass) are semi-notorious with certain games (such as White Water, for its wavy, left side "waterfall" ramp), but this is not among the issues I've seen anywhere on Creech.

Must've been pretty awful, having to wear that head-to-foot thick rubber getup for hours at a time. Unless they shot in the fall or winter, in which case at least the underwater portion could have been more akin to diving with a wetsuit on.