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(Topic ID: 149020)

Ceramic clear coat - Observations and thoughts


By ArizonaBruce

4 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 6 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by stef34
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 4 years ago

I clear my own PF's, I was concerned about the ceramic clear-coat not being flexible as the wood expands and contracts. I asked an automotive painter friend of mine without prepping him why I was asking the question... "How do you think a ceramic clear would work on wood?" His words exactly... "I don't know, I'd be concerned about it breaking the bond due to the expansion and contraction of the wood"

So I did some research on it and as it turns out there are two types of ceramic clear..
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From Dr. Ghodoussi...

After the "cerami"clear top coat is sprayed, the nano particles of Fumed Silica (SiO2), which are synthetically engineered, migrate to the top 0.2 mils of the clear coat as it is curing.

If you remove this potion of the clear layer of paint, the paint under it will be much softer and will not polish out or react the same way the nano particle portion did or would.
You will at some level have compromised the the finish on the car.
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If you re-clear over the above type of ceramic clear coat you would negate the benefits of the ceramic, on a plus note since the ceramic is only on the top .2 mil you may not have the bonding issue, so essentially it becomes a normal playfield and you wasted your money.

The other article I read (but can't find it right now) mention a second type of ceramic that does additional cross-linking throughout, now this probably wouldn't suffer from the thin skin issue above, but may have the issues of flexibility with wood breaking the bond... So what does this mean? For me at this juncture the downside outweighs the possible upside, my opinion may change, time will tell.

That said, I happen to have acquired a ceramic clear AFM that while not installed has been curing for at least 2 years. I noticed raised inserts and substantial clear-coat shrinkage around the inserts and the wood in general as well. An untrained eye would notice, a new, shiny PF and say... "It's good to go" but I know that the ball rolling over those raised (albeit smooth) inserts will eventually chip. so I (wet) "color sanded" and buffed with an 8" 3M black rubber hard block" and 2000 grit sand paper until the PF was smooth as it started to level cracks around the inserts became apparent, this is what I would expect with this level of clear shrinkage, I continued to sand until they were all gone. I hypothesize that as the ball rolls over the inserts and hits the non-flat inserts it wears the clear down to these cracks, this is the point where the insert chipping begins much like a run in a stocking it just keeps chipping... by leveling (sanding) the PF past this point up front I'm hoping the "run in the stocking" never begins...

After sanding flat, buff with a rotary buffer (not orbital) @ 2000rpm, a yellow Wool pad and 3m Perfect-it III (06085) to raise the shine....

Questions to ask...
What brand of clear is Mirco using?

Other notes...
Since I leveled the PF, if Mirco is using the clear that has the scratch resistant coating only on the top .2 mill, then I sanded off all the protection essentially leaving a regular PF and while it wouldn't have the scratch resistance it also wouldn't have the potential bonding issue... If it was the second type of clear with extra cross-linking throughout I still have scratch resistance but potential bonding issues... either way in my opinion it needed to be level, sobeit...

ArizonaBruce
AZB

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20160102_150424[1]_(resized).jpg

#2 4 years ago
#3 4 years ago

as you said it's throwin' money down the drain butstill i'm using ceramic for the last two coat as finisher and i noticed that the playfield is less sensitive to scratch,and never had such a breaking bond issues,mentioning the fact that playfields has to be spick and span.

#4 4 years ago

OK, you're putting ceramic on as the last two coats as it should be, good! So you have regular clear in contact with the PF which would bond and flex with the wood and the ceramic on top of that minimizing the scratches. I was referring to people who put an additional coat of regular clear over the ceramic, that would be a waste of money, because they would get no benefit from the ceramic underneath since the ball would be riding above it... By the way to clarify I'm not saying that ceramic has a problem overtime with wood... I'm saying because of the hardness, logic dictates it might... just don't know... Can anyone chime in that has had a ceramic PF (from Mirco or otherwise) regarding ceramic PF wear, chipping, ghosting etc.

Arizona Bruce
AZB

#5 4 years ago

That PF looks outrageous AZB! Fantastic work.

#6 4 years ago
Quoted from ArizonaBruce:

OK, you're putting ceramic on as the last two coats as it should be, good! So you have regular clear in contact with the PF which would bond and flex with the wood and the ceramic on top of that minimizing the scratches. I was referring to people who put an additional coat of regular clear over the ceramic, that would be a waste of money, because they would get no benefit from the ceramic underneath since the ball would be riding above it... By the way to clarify I'm not saying that ceramic has a problem overtime with wood... I'm saying because of the hardness logic dictates it might... just don't know... Can anyone chime in that has had a ceramic PF (from Mirco or otherwise) regarding ceramic PF wear, chipping, ghosting etc.
Arizona Bruce
AZB

that's it i have regular clear underneath,and sorry for the misunderstanding,and i agree with you it uses to nothing to add other clear above the ceramic which is for me a perfect finisher.
I've made a resto on my jokerz playfield u can have a look on the site and i have to restore my AFM too u did a very good job!!

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