(Topic ID: 86886)

Centaur Switch matrix problem

By Fridgy

8 years ago


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  • 20 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 8 years ago by dothedoo
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 8 years ago

I have had this problem since I got the machine going a few weeks ago. Once the 1st inline target is hit every time the left flipper is pressed it will score 5000 points and will light the Right outlane (worth 5000). I have been testing and replacing diodes like a mad man but to no avail.
The left flipper (lane change) switch had a diode which I believe was in backwards however aside from the switch problem described above it seemed to work correctly. If I put it in the same way as every other diode on the game it would register as a stuck switch. If removed it works normally aside from my initial problem. Should there even be a diode on this switch?
I have changed diodes at the flippers, 1st and 2nd drop, right outlane plus a few others. All oriented correctly.
Machine has new Altek boards.
Can anyone more experienced with the switch matrix point me in the right direction.
Cheers

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#2 8 years ago

Have you checked the gap of the switch to make sure its not just vibration setting it off? Any disc capacitors on any of the fast close switches (pop bumpers, star rollovers, etc)?

#3 8 years ago

Yeah, it only happens after the first in line drop target is hit. As long as it's up there is no problem. So I don't think it is the switch gaps. Thanks though, I'll go over them all just in case.

#4 8 years ago

1st ball trough diode looks like it may be the problem. Sometimes the diode itself isn't bad, but the legs get squished and can short out. Strictly from a view of the schematic, that switch would be the problem that would cause your scenario. You can test the theory by seeing if the problem goes away during 5 ball multiball (1st ball trough switch will be open so diode condition won't matter).

#5 8 years ago

I don't think there should be a diode on the left flipper as the matrix only looks for the Right Flipper for the lane change.

You will want to check all of the switches in that column -> all 4 inline drops, right return and outlane and left outlane.

#6 8 years ago

This is happening to my Centaur as well, Game starts, I hit flippers and 5K is scored even before launching a ball, I ran the switch test and #1 switch is not working correctly. Trying to figure out before MGC which is this weekend.
Any help would be greatly appreciated

#7 8 years ago

Mine also won't go into 5 ball multi-ball

#8 8 years ago

Solved. You were spot on rccola77, it was the diode on the 1st ball trough switch. As you said, the problem stopped in 5 ball multiball. Replaced the diode and now all good. Thank you very much for your help.

Also thanks to Xenon75, I agree, I don't think there should be a diode on the left flipper/lane change and it is working fine without it. I really appreciate the 2nd opinion.

PinballOrphanage it sounds very much like the 1st ball trough switch is your problem (switch 17), if that switch is not working it definitely won't spit out any multiballs. Make sure all of the ball trough switches are working correctly though.

#9 8 years ago
Quoted from rccola777:

1st ball trough diode looks like it may be the problem. Sometimes the diode itself isn't bad, but the legs get squished and can short out. Strictly from a view of the schematic, that switch would be the problem that would cause your scenario. You can test the theory by seeing if the problem goes away during 5 ball multiball (1st ball trough switch will be open so diode condition won't matter).

+1 on the 1st ball trough diode. It is shorted or is being shorted across.

EDIT: Doh...too slow!

#10 8 years ago
Quoted from PinballOrphanage:

This is happening to my Centaur as well, Game starts, I hit flippers and 5K is scored even before launching a ball, I ran the switch test and #1 switch is not working correctly. Trying to figure out before MGC which is this weekend.
Any help would be greatly appreciated

It takes three closed switches, one with a shorted diode to cause a phantom switch closure elsewhere on the playfield. We really need to know which switch is scoring 5K to determine where the problem lies.

#11 8 years ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

It takes three closed switches, one with a shorted diode to cause a phantom switch closure elsewhere on the playfield. We really need to know which switch is scoring 5K to determine where the problem lies.

Probably the same three switches I was looking at would you think? - flipper, right out lane and 1st ball trough.

#12 8 years ago

In your case the 1st inline drop target had to be down. That would not (should not) be the case at the start of a game. And I can't tell from pics of the playfield if other targets score 5K or just the in/out lanes.

Another question I forgot to ask...does it score 5K everytime you hit the flipper or just once and done?

#13 8 years ago

Yeah you are right, I didn't think of that. As well as the in/out lanes there are also the roll overs in the left lane/tunnel thing that score 5k not sure if anything else.

#14 8 years ago
Quoted from Xenon75:

I don't think there should be a diode on the left flipper as the matrix only looks for the Right Flipper for the lane change.

I just looked at the schematics and in my machine. The schematics say both left and right and I confirmed I have lane change switches on both flippers. Each one has a diode.

Quoted from Fridgy:

Also thanks to Xenon75, I agree, I don't think there should be a diode on the left flipper/lane change and it is working fine without it.

If you have a lane change switch on the left flipper and it doesn't have a diode, you could get phantom switch closures if the flipper button is held in. That said, you will probably not experience any issues unless one of your coin switches gets stuck since there are no other playfield switches in the same matrix column as the lane change switch.

#15 8 years ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

I just looked at the schematics and in my machine. The schematics say both left and right and I confirmed I have lane change switches on both flippers. Each one has a diode.

Thanks for that, on the left one can you confirm that it is oriented the same as all others - banded side to the empty lug? Mine only seems to work in reverse.

#16 8 years ago

Banded end ties to the brown wire, non-banded end to the grey/yellow wire.

And I misspoke earlier about the lack of a diode probably not causing any issues. The flipper switch is not in the same column as the coin switches, it is in a column with other playfield switches. So for example, if the "S" target is down and you hit the ball up the right side and hit the Release target while holding the left flipper up it will score the "2" drop target if it's standing. But you would probably only notice if the tilt or slam tilt were one of the switches that could phantom on you. That's not possible in this case.

#17 8 years ago

Thanks for that. Should the diode be that way on the right flipper too? Banded to brown, non banded to grey/yellow? Mine is non banded to grey/yellow and banded to empty lug and seems to work correctly. Maybe it was wired wrong, it has a new playfield but was restored fairly poorly. I have found a number of things that have been incorrect. Getting close to right now though thanks to all the help.

#18 8 years ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

I just looked at the schematics and in my machine. The schematics say both left and right and I confirmed I have lane change switches on both flippers. Each one has a diode.

If you have a lane change switch on the left flipper and it doesn't have a diode, you could get phantom switch closures if the flipper button is held in. That said, you will probably not experience any issues unless one of your coin switches gets stuck since there are no other playfield switches in the same matrix column as the lane change switch.

I was going off the schematic posted above and didn't see the left flipper listed. Sorry for the mis-info. Good catch.

#19 8 years ago

Ya I didn't remember both switches having lane change. I had to go look.

#20 8 years ago
Quoted from Fridgy:

Thanks for that. Should the diode be that way on the right flipper too? Banded to brown, non banded to grey/yellow? Mine is non banded to grey/yellow and banded to empty lug and seems to work correctly. Maybe it was wired wrong, it has a new playfield but was restored fairly poorly. I have found a number of things that have been incorrect. Getting close to right now though thanks to all the help.

The right flipper is correct. I believe the banded end would connect to the brown wire when the switch is closed. I misspoke by leaving out the switch.

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