(Topic ID: 67492)

Centaur - Say it Again Inexpensive Replacement


By thedefog

5 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 89 posts
  • 42 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by BigClive
  • Topic is favorited by 13 Pinsiders

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There have been 6 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

2014-12-22 19.32.04.jpg
sia.pdf (PDF preview)
SIAR.jpg
BALLY_AS2518-81r_news.jpg
Say It Again_Complete.jpg
siaa.gif

There are 89 posts in this topic. You are on page 2 of 2.
#51 5 years ago

$85 for an assembled, working replacement- plug and play.

#52 5 years ago
Quoted from matthess:

$85 for an assembled, working replacement- plug and play.

Hey guys,

Matthess has the original board design Clive came up with, which is a tested and working design, with professional board production and assembly. He'll take care of the need for as many as he produces. If there is any remaining needed, the design I'm working out will be great for a DIY replacement, and I'm also willing to etch and build boards myself, but they won't look as pretty. The price point will probably be near that.

I am about 1/2 way through a my design at this point, in another few weeks I'll have something to etch and run tests on, and once it is verified, I'll post PCB traces and a BOM and parts layout here for the DIYers.

#53 5 years ago

Exciting stuff; I hope to pick up my Centaur tomorrow... we'll see what happens!

#54 5 years ago
Quoted from matthess:

I have these boards currently in production based on Clive's design. These boards are professionally manufactured, with top and bottom solder mask and silk screen layer. I hope to have some available for shipment soon (boards arrive in 8 days). Price will be $85 shipped. International shipping will be higher.

Got a website?

#56 5 years ago

I almost have the layout ready to etch. I won't have much time to work on it over the next few weeks though.

2 weeks later
#57 5 years ago

My boards are complete and are in testing. Once testing is complete (1 to 2 days) I will create a new post with a link to a website for purchase. Here's a pic of a completed board. The price will be $85 shipped. Say It Again_Complete.jpg

#58 5 years ago
Quoted from matthess:

My boards are complete and are in testing. Once testing is complete (1 to 2 days) I will create a new post with a link to a website for purchase. Here's a pic of a completed board. The price will be $85 shipped.

Say It Again_Complete.jpg 959 KB

Nice work, they look great.

#59 5 years ago

Nice, looking forward to it!

#60 5 years ago
Quoted from matthess:

My boards are complete and are in testing. Once testing is complete (1 to 2 days) I will create a new post with a link to a website for purchase. Here's a pic of a completed board. The price will be $85 shipped.

Say It Again_Complete.jpg 959 KB

Don't forget to had a shipping option to canada!

#61 5 years ago

Very nice work.

#62 5 years ago

What does this thing do again?

#63 5 years ago

It adds a variable echo to the game sounds and speech. Centaur and Centaur II were the only games that used this board.

3 weeks later
#64 5 years ago

Thank you Matthess for the help getting my Centaur's sound working (when dealing with wiring errors and wrong schematics it is really hard to sort stuff out without help from another collector with a machine). Thank you for the time!

Also, thank you for the replacement Say it Again board, I have not actually tested my original at thei point to see if it is working, but the replacement seems to do a fine job. It was packed well and shipped fast (I received it faster than I thought I would in Canada).

And I was able to set it up to my liking in a few minutes just twisting the dials (I had the initial "I hope something funky does not happen when twisting these dials with the sound on", and in hindsight I should have just powered the game down but anyways, I was able to tweak the settings while the game was powered and did not hear anything even like an audio "pop" or static... seems like a really solid product.

#65 5 years ago

Are these available for purchase yet?

#66 5 years ago
Quoted from Largemann:

Are these available for purchase yet?

Sounds like some have shipped.

#67 5 years ago
Quoted from matthess:

My boards are complete and are in testing. Once testing is complete (1 to 2 days) I will create a new post with a link to a website for purchase. Here's a pic of a completed board. The price will be $85 shipped.

Say It Again_Complete.jpg 959 KB

Can this be fitted to other pins? I'm thinking Medusa would sound pretty good with echo & reverb options.

#68 5 years ago
Quoted from pinster68:

Can this be fitted to other pins? I'm thinking Medusa would sound pretty good with echo & reverb options.

You can do this with any pin technically. You just have to match impedance and derive a power source from somewhere on the pin to power a delay effect. The PT2399 design I was doing for Centaur could run right off of the +5v power of any pin, but would obviously require some modifications to work in other machines. It would not be able to plug right in. You would have to check your sound board schematic and trace it to where the output of the sound generation is just before it hits the audio power amp. In some cases it would possibly require cutting a trace and soldering wires in between the two points which then feed to the effect.

#69 5 years ago

Just received mine yesterday and it looks great. I won't know if I'll need it for a while (the game is being restored by HEP) but it's nice to have a spare on hand.

#70 5 years ago

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/centaur-say-it-again-replacement-boards-now-available-85-shipped

Kind of missed the boat on the first run, but I'm planning a second run after the new year. They can be used for other games, buy not without some mods. Everyone has been pretty happy so far, there is a review in the other thread.

1 week later
#71 5 years ago

Congrats on the boards Matthess. I guess there is no need to finish my PT2399 design now.

-1
#72 5 years ago
Quoted from GSones:

Just received mine yesterday and it looks great. I won't know if I'll need it for a while (the game is being restored by HEP) but it's nice to have a spare on hand.

I can pretty much guarantee that your SAD4096 will be dead within a few years with regular use of the machine. If I were you, I would pull the original board right away (since it is still working and MUCH more valuable), and install this board. You can sell that SAD4096 IC by itself for around $120+. They are extremely rare, and coveted by guitar effect analog delay freaks.

#73 5 years ago
Quoted from thedefog:

You can sell that SAD4096 IC by itself for around $120+. They are extremely rare, and coveted by guitar effect analog delay freaks.

Or not... and keep it in the community. Pull the board and use the replacement, sure, but if you're going to sell it don't strip the valuable component and sell it to some guitar nerds...just sell the board to a pin nerd.

3 weeks later
#74 5 years ago

The 2nd run is currently in production and should be ready for sale/shipment by 1/17/14. If you send me a message, either here or at http://www.parlorcitypinball.com, I can reserve your spot in line.

Matt

1 month later
#75 5 years ago

I have 3 boards available for immediate shipment. PM me with your interest and I will invoice you via PayPal.

Thanks-
Matt

#76 5 years ago

Only 2 left!

2 months later
#77 5 years ago

Any of these boards left? I only just found the thread on here by scouting around the web! Am in the UK, but have an address in Texas it could be shipped to, plus verified Paypal account.

#78 5 years ago

Big Daddy Enterprises has them for sale, $89 I think. Look under pinball boards.

2 months later
-1
#79 5 years ago

Wow, neat one. Doesn't the board look almost like this? https://coinop.mally.eu/produkt.php?details=1&bestellnr=102527
BALLY_AS2518-81r_news.jpg

These boards were discussed long time ago here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/is-strikesandspareseu-a-good-vendor.

So, to let people know, just attach a sticker "Pirated in US".

nn!nn

#80 5 years ago
Quoted from strikesandspares:

Wow, neat one. Doesn't the board look almost like this? https://coinop.mally.eu/produkt.php?details=1&bestellnr=102527

These boards were discussed long time ago here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/is-strikesandspareseu-a-good-vendor.
So, to let people know, just attach a sticker "Pirated in US".

what, you mean two dip chips couple of caps and resistors.. only so much variation you can have there.

you do know, Bally published the schematic right?

considering its looks a lot like Clive's original, maybe strikesandspares.eu should print 'Pirated in EU' on their board since Clive's board came first

clive - 1998
strikesandspares.eu - 2004

see here;
http://www.bigclive.com/centaur.htm

#81 5 years ago

Yep, that is identical to Clive's design using the long obsolete Holtek IC. I hope you got permission from him to use that layout, funny how it didn't change at all. Nice Bally logo on there too. I'm sure you contacted them about using that as well. I'm generally not a prick about these sort of things, but this one is just too obvious, so I'm calling BS. With the PT2399 available as cheaply as it was in 2004 or whenever that one was released, it would make no sense to use an obsolete and more expensive IC to do a board run, not to mention that it needs a separate IC for RAM.

On another note, I'm picking up a Centaur this weekend, so I'll get to directly experiment with the PT2399 design I built. I have a prototyped unit that is plug-and-play ready, so when I'm brave enough, I'll drop it into my machine and see how it performs. If it works well, I'll just release the schematics and BOM to the community, along with a PCB layout & P&P for etching your own board. It is simple enough for pretty much anyone to build, even as a first DIY project. You could even perf board this one or pad-per-hole solder it. My experience with the PT2399 ICs has been so good that I've ditched all the analog BBD ICs and the mojo surrounding them.

#82 5 years ago

The PT2399 works just fine in this application. I've already done it. There are existing boards out there that only require +12VDC which you can easily tap off the filter cap on the S&T board.

ebay.com link » Synthrotek Pt2399 Delay Dev Board Pcb Printed Circuit Board Only

I did this while I was "experimenting" too and it worked fine. In fact, its an easy and cheap way to add echo to non-Centaur S&T games. But its a bit messy wire-wise.

If you really want to offer up the design to the Pinball community you could do the PCB on OSHPark. I believe you can make the design public and anyone that wants to can re-order with future runs.

https://oshpark.com/

#83 5 years ago
Quoted from thedefog:

Yep, that is identical to Clive's design using the long obsolete Holtek IC. I hope you got permission from him to use that layout, funny how it didn't change at all. Nice Bally logo on there too. I'm sure you contacted them about using that as well. I'm generally not a prick about these sort of things, but this one is just too obvious, so I'm calling BS. With the PT2399 available as cheaply as it was in 2004 or whenever that one was released, it would make no sense to use an obsolete and more expensive IC to do a board run, not to mention that it needs a separate IC for RAM.

Ha, funny to see you guys sticking together when it comes to issues on your side.

Well, regarding the board you probably have seen the predecessor on our site showing a different pcb.

We designed the board 1997 !!! a couple month after the Holtek IC was intoduced (March, 1997). We sold the former board (revision A) up to 2003 which unfortunatelly lacked an opportunity to mount the board reliably to the existing holders. Then, 2004, we changed the pcb layout to fit the holders, however, the schematics remained the same. See?

You are right, the PT is now cheaper than HT, but stocking more than 2500 HTs we keep the design another couple of years, hope you can stand it.

You better read the board printings again then, even when barely passed high school, you gonna see my name and not BALLY

@BloodyCactus

Quoted from BloodyCactus:

you do know, Bally published the schematic right?

Better investigate this assertion again

I'm done with u guys,
farewell dudes...

SIAR.jpg

#84 5 years ago
Quoted from CactusJack:

The PT2399 works just fine in this application. I've already done it. There are existing boards out there that only require +12VDC which you can easily tap off the filter cap on the S&T board

You still need a +5v regulator for the PT2399 though or it'll fry.

#85 5 years ago
Quoted from strikesandspares:

@BloodyCactus

Better investigate this assertion again

hey.. bally schematic for SIA! attached. two page pdf (only page1 shows as an attached image).

sia.pdf

#86 5 years ago
Quoted from BloodyCactus:

hey.. bally schematic for SIA! attached. two page pdf (only page1 shows as an attached image).

sia.pdf 145 KB

yo, that's the schematic for the original BALLY SIA, which is a completely different design and technology to the assembly discussed. So what?

5 months later
#87 4 years ago

i made a retro look board...its for sale2014-12-22 19.32.04.jpg

just email me hmbartels@kpnmail.nl

#88 4 years ago
Quoted from comrep:

i made a retro look board...its for saleImage (auto-loading disabled)
just email me hmbartels@kpnmail.nl
2014-12-22 19.32.04.jpg 263 KB

Very Nice! Exactly what I was planning to do with the PT IC. Yours appears to use the Holtek IC. Do you have plans to sell any blank boards? I would be interested in some since I have about 5 8955's and ram in stock.

While changing the B to a P probably works, you probably should have left the zooming ball Logo off. I know you slightly altered it, but it is still awfully close to the original and would probably fail any legal battle.

4 months later
#89 4 years ago

It was me who designed the Say It Again Later board based on the Holtek chip and it's interesting to note that despite "strikesandspares" claiming they designed their version a year earlier, they seem to have used a near identical layout on the input section and shuffled the PSU components slightly.

But what's really interesting is that I didn't follow the Holtek datasheets examples since they used a lot of electrolytics and quite frankly we can do without those wherever possible. So I used completely different component values to allow the use of standard 100n decoupling capacitors wherever possible, and adjusted associated resistor values to match. I also deviated from the official Holtek design to keep the component count as low as possible and also shuffled the address lines between the echo and RAM chips to get the number of the links on the board down to just two. That way it can be built on a single sided PCB making maintenance and modification much easier than on a double sided PCB. I also modified the original Bally PSU design to reflect the lower power requirement and to reduce the loading and heat dissipation.

And it appears that strikesandspares have obviously redesigned the circuit identically to the exact non-standard component values, configuration and placement I came up with. And they did it exactly one year before I published the design. Isn't that just completely AMAZING.

But seriously... I put the design up as an open project to copy and replicate as desired. I don't even have a problem with people selling modules based on the design, because it's such a specialist board that nobody's exactly going to get rich selling it. I mean it would be nice if you did give me a wee mention on the PCB, but you could also just change the date of the design to one year earlier and put your own name on it instead I suppose.

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