Centaur
Bally, 1981
Centaur II
Bally, 1983You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider evandickson.
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Can someone post a pics of J1 on the squawk and talk board? My new-to-me centaur has no sounds. My J1 looks pretty hacky. From the circuit diagram, I should see pins 16, 17, & 18 used, but I don't even seem to have wires for them. My J2s on squawk and talk and the say it again are pretty hacky too.
I wish there were wire colors in the diagram.
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IMG_20190416_221814555 (resized).jpgQuoted from djblouw:Both of those connections are correct from the factory.
The connection to the say it again board has the gel in the connectors for the gray wires.
[quoted image]
Wow, that's ugly. Thought it had to be a hack, especially with the circuit diagram. Thanks for the confirmation, I'll start by replacing the connectors with like connectors then.
Broken speaker wire brought sound fx back.
Shitty pots are killing speech, if I press the speech one Centaur talks to me.
J3 is not actually used.
Still missing my background drone. Anyone had sound fx, speech, but no drone?
Quoted from dothedoo:Are all settings 16 and up set to 03 from the front door test button?
This! I missed the line in the manual about setting #18, thank you! No rebuild required at this time.
Quoted from Quench:Bally playfields have a little divot near the tip of each flipper. You align the centre (pointiest) part of the flipper tip to the divot.
See the example on a Medusa below:
You have your flippers set up past the divots such that flipping to the left drop targets is weaker.
[quoted image]
I put mine a little above the divots, so the inlane guide makes a straight line with the flipper. I'm used to wpc where the divots hold a toothpick that the flipper rests on while you tighten it all up. Will adjust this evening, thanks!
Quoted from semicolin:You're hearing things. It's "Slow, aren't you?" You might need to turn down the reverb a bit.
I know he says "slow, aren't you" and "bad move human" when you hit rollover switches that are already lit. But there's another callout that seems to happen late in high scoring games. Maybe it's custom? I'll have to set up something to record. I'm 99% sure my Centaur tells me "Screw... off... you" occasionally.
Edit: I got a recording and I hear one sometimes and the other sometimes. It's totally the "slow aren't you" callout, but I think it's kind of a pinball version of Yanni / Laurel, helped along by the sharp sounds of drop targets and jets messing with the overall audio properties.
Has anyone ever had the "kick to playfield" for multi balls stop kicking? Mine stopped working 98% of the time (I can occasionally get it to kick once or twice in test, then it stops again).
So far I've:
- replaced connector J5, no change.
- replaced the coil, old one tests fine out of circuit.
- swapped transistor Q11 with Q12 to see if the problem would move but it didn't.
- Socketed and replaced U3
I've ordered replacement chips for U also but they haven't arrived yet, that's next on my list of things to do
Looking at the schematics, I think U2 is the last possible culprit. Wondering if there's anything else anyone thinks I should be looking at.
Oh, I didn't look for cold solder, good idea, thanks, I'll do that next!
The good news is, it doesn't lock on, it just doesn't fire. I like the flipper eos idea.
Quoted from jj44114:- replaced connector J5, no change.
- replaced the coil, old one tests fine out of circuit.
- swapped transistor Q11 with Q12 to see if the problem would move but it didn't.
- Socketed and replaced U3
I've ordered replacement chips for U also but they haven't arrived yet, that's next on my list of things to do
Looking at the schematics, I think U2 is the last possible culprit. Wondering if there's anything else anyone thinks I should be looking at.
You have to go to switch test. All this other stuff was unnecessary.
Other than the Knocker, that solenoid circuit gets used less than any other. I doubt that any of the components are bad.
Ran what exists for a switch test today. Tests ok, I think. I could be missing something though, the trough does have a weird setup and the switch test is pretty rudimentary. So both actual trough switches seem to register fine. I don't understand the setup fully, with two balls on switches and two not, and a third switch that no ball will ever reach (maybe the trough gets 5 balls in a different game on this MPU?).
Also reflowed solder at J5 pins. Still no go.
U2 is my last hope (save me Bono!).
Quoted from jj44114:Test each switch with a ball. Does it close with a ball running past it? THE BALLS REACH ALL SWITHES AS THE RUN BY THEM.
All 3 register with a ball touching them. I guess the first one counts balls on entry to the trough?
The one at the eject point works too. I don't think it could be a switch issue, since the kick out cool should fire every time in test regardless of switches. Hoping it's u2. Otherwise I guess I'm looking at a broken wire that doesn't look broken, somewhere between board and coil.
Quoted from dothedoo:Don’t forget the driver board only controls the relay on the solenoid expander. The relay completes the circuit to fire the coil. It’s designed this way because the coil draws too much current and would overload the driver transistor. The relay can handle the extra current so it becomes the “driver”.
With the backbox open and the playfield up, ground the tab of every driver transistor until you find the one that controls the kicker (ignore this if you already know which one it is - sorry, I don’t have the means to look it up right now). Make sure the relay clicks every time you ground the tab. You may have to disconnect the coil to hear it. If that’s good, run the coil test and make sure the relay clicks in every cycle. If it does, then you know your problem is with the high current contacts in the relay, the board connector, or the wiring to the coil. If the relay clicks intermittently during the coil test, then it is driver related.
Oh will try this tonight, the relay doesn't appear on the board schematic. It's only for the kick out solenoid? If yes, then this sounds promising.
Quoted from dothedoo:Don’t forget the driver board only controls the relay on the solenoid expander. The relay completes the circuit to fire the coil. It’s designed this way because the coil draws too much current and would overload the driver transistor. The relay can handle the extra current so it becomes the “driver”.
With the backbox open and the playfield up, ground the tab of every driver transistor until you find the one that controls the kicker (ignore this if you already know which one it is - sorry, I don’t have the means to look it up right now). Make sure the relay clicks every time you ground the tab. You may have to disconnect the coil to hear it. If that’s good, run the coil test and make sure the relay clicks in every cycle. If it does, then you know your problem is with the high current contacts in the relay, the board connector, or the wiring to the coil. If the relay clicks intermittently during the coil test, then it is driver related.
This was it, thank you! Just a loose connector on the relay board, didn't even know it was part of the system.
Any one know the part number(s) for the lock / cam / mechanism for the backbox? I have none of it, which bugs me a bit, and the manual doesn't identify parts besides electronic components.
I'm finding that a full plunge frequently goes air ball, and the ball lodges here. I'm guessing the ball springs off the trap door. Anyone else ever have this issue? And if yes, is there an adjustment I can make to the trap door, rather than plunge softly and remind others to do so too?
IMG_20220807_195949234 (resized).jpgQuoted from mad_carl:You could try a less powerful shooter spring and/or a new barrel spring.
You really don’t need the ball to hammer into that one way gate anyway. It just ends up twisting the tab. A lighter plunge will get your some variation off that gate and into the rollovers.
Also, is your trap door sitting flush? Or does it stick up at all?
I don't think it's perfectly flush. I think it has a slight upwards bend to it at the free end. I don't think this is great, but I'm not sure how to adjust it.
I didn't realize there were options for the springs, I'll have a look to figure out what might be less powerful next time I make a parts order, that might be a good workaround, thanks!
Quoted from Malfeitor:What Carl said and you can also try a new shooter bushing. I had to adjust my shooter>>cabinet to keep the rod from striking off center causing the ball to spin and jump causing all kinds of weird shit. If you loosen the 2 nuts holding the shooter in the cabinet, you can move the shooter about +/-.125" in every direction. some cabinets might be more or less. Get it centered when it strikes and try what Carl said and you will see a difference.
I can probably use better alignment too. The plunger strikes the ball a little to the right of center, I'll see if I can adjust that too, thanks!
Quoted from Heretic_9:...
This is completely unrelated, but can someone tell me what exactly is the callout that sounds something like "Slew On !" Seems like it's one of those that on some games wind up being unclear. Muddy speech tech.
I'm thinking this is "slow, human" when you fail to make a lane change and the ball rolls over a lane that's already lit.
How strong is your right flipper?
I've been thinking mine is weak because I can only reach about the first two of the captive drop targets if I shoot the left mini loop, and can only occasionally and just barely get the captive "release" target with a direct hit (ie, flipper to captive ball, no travel through mini loop).
I've cleaned up the flipper button switches, rebuilt the flipper assembly, repinned the power board connectors, swapped power boards. I can't seem to get any more power. Is the right flipper to the left captive targets just a weak shot that's hard to make in general?
Quoted from Heretic_9:Quite so. Other factors potentially relevant here: pitch of the table (an inclinometer being essential gameroom equipment) and an even lateral orientation on the legs; cleanliness status of the pf. After cleaning a thin, mostly invisible layer of gunk off the pf of my IJ with that blue cleaner whose name I'm blanking on at the moment (CP-100 ?), the game got SO MUCH faster on ball travel that my reflexes aren't keeping up, and several weeks later I'm STILL missing shots that I routinely used to make ! And thereby losing the ball. (Perhaps there is such a thing as too clean . . . ?)
It's a new cpr play field. Doesn't get much cleaner.
Here's a question for y'all. This is something I see in my centaur, and in friend's centaur, and on pictures I see of centaur online. The wire inserts beneath the flippers are not centered with the flippers, they're off kilter. Only on centaur, not in any other machines. Anyone know why? It's mildly infuriating. 
IMG_20221105_204944814 (resized).jpgQuoted from mad_carl:I was looking at mine on the weekend and noticed the same thing on my cpr playfield. I’ll have to check the original to see if it was the same.
Looks the same on IPDB, and I don't think the image is a playfield swap, so I'm thinking they came from the factory like that. I just can't figure out a reason. Unless it was a factory error that we keep repeating, which I suppose is possible.
I'm trying to get at the GI to sort out an issue there, and noticed this when I removed the top right plastic. The top side of the launch gate just floats. It looks like there should be a post, but there's none in the pf and no hole for one in the plastic. Is that normal?
IMG_20221117_205206261 (resized).jpgQuoted from jibmums:Yups. It just floats there.
That was fast! Thanks!
Quoted from Sheev_Palpatine:If my original MPU is good. Would there be a good reason other than the optional setting to free play if I upgrade to an alltek?
Also I thought I read back in the thread, there is an actual home rom chip you swap out easily that upgrades the game play?
**I realized my original post was worded poorly.
I would say no. If your MPU is good, no point spending a few hundred just for free play setting. You can adjust the game's replay score threshhold to a low value like 10k, that way it will coin itself up with every game you play (unless you are world-record-awful and can't score 10k in a game 
).
Following up on a post I made a few weeks ago asking about the right flipper strength. I finally figured out that my flipper WAS underpowered. I measured resistance across it and found it to be about 2 ohm, instead of the spec 3.3. Replaced the coil and it's at the strength I would expect - I can now hit queen's chamber drops from a cradled stop, and even score the queen's chamber standup target (when I can shoot straight enough).
Ok, thanks guys. I was sure that would be the issue as the socket is wired differently than others, but that's not it. Back to the drawing board!
Quoted from vec-tor:Remember, Orange & Red GI wires can be together... White & Green GI wires can be together.
Hmm. Is this to the braided side? I have a few wires that connect to the braid, an orange, a green, and a white. To the non-braided side, I have greens and reds. (The short red with textured cover is just a jumper because I damaged the braid digging around just now).
IMG_20221127_195222087 (resized).jpgIMG_20221127_195240866 (resized).jpgIMG_20221127_195304971 (resized).jpgIMG_20221127_195316759 (resized).jpgIMG_20221127_195325409 (resized).jpgIMG_20221127_195338211 (resized).jpgIMG_20221127_195430981 (resized).jpgGot my GI working again. Summary follows in case future peeps run into GI issues.
Problem was that Centaur GI was out.
I drew up a circuit diagram for one of the circuits, and everything was good, green and white wires (grounds) were on one side of the bulbs in the circuit, and red and orange wires were on the line side.
I was reading 7V AC at any point on the GI circuit, which means stuff wasn't getting grounded properly.
Centaur has finicky GI compared to most other pins, because they are controlled by an add-on auxiliary board and a Triac for some special effects.
Failure points for Centaur GI are:
- Triac (can be bench tested easily with a multimeter). It's a little round metal connector mounted to the same metal bracket as the power rectifier board.
- Auxiliary lamp board (there is a bulb beside it with no lighting insert that must work in order to load the circuit. Failed bulb equals failed circuit. It was not my issue, but I'm told cold solder breaks are common on the auxiliary lamp board connector and reflowing these will solve GI issues sometimes. You find this under the PF near the O-R-B-S lights.
- Main lamp board - Q14 is in line with the GI.
In my case, the triac tested ok. Jiggling connectors did nothing, so didn't seem to be a connector problem. Swapped lamp board with a known working one and the issue resolved. Replaced Q14 with SCR 5064 on the original board and put it back in, problem remained resolved.
I have one single GI bulb misbehaving now. The upper star roll over light. It has red wire on one side, and a jumper on the other that I think went to a ground braid. When I clip that jumper to a ground braid, the light comes on very bright, much brighter than the rest, and does not blink with the rest. And then my q14 fails again.
Anyone got a pic of the wiring for this one?
IMG_20221204_004920112 (resized).jpgQuoted from Dakine747:[quoted image]
Yes, this, thanks. It needed to go to the braid by the lane rovers, it's all good again now.
I'm so close to getting this thing nicely dialed in, but I've got another headscratcher. Well, two of them, but they may be related.
When I earn a single add-a-ball, the autolauncher fires more than once. Is this normal behaviour, or is something wrong there? I'm unsure if the code counts balls remaining to add, or if to save bytes of code they made it always fire 5 consecutive times.
On the opposite side of the coin, when I start multiball, the ball feeder intermittenly doesn't fire enough times. It's intermittent - sometimes all 4 additional balls will enter play, sometimes just 1 or 2 (and I'm talking with "maximum orbian strength achieved"). The feeder seems to move freely without friction when I wiggle it with my finger. The wires are firmly soldered to the coil lugs.
Has anyone ever experienced these?
Video demonstrations:
autolauncher fires multiple times for single add-a-ball:
launcher feeder does not fire enough times to feed all balls for multiball:
Quoted from Zee:It looks like the balls are not dropping down into the auto-launcher.
Correct, there's a feeder coil that whacks then over there, but it doesn't always fire enough times. But seems to have solid electrical connection and no internal friction.
Quoted from vec-tor:1) Ball feed into kicker is working.
1a) Ball kicker is working... However, the ball does not have enough throw speed to fully
--- escape the undercarriage setup. The ball rolls down and gets stuck on the release switch.
2) Adjust the exit release switch so as a ball can rollback down to the kicker.
2a) Also make sure the ball can activate the switch...
3) Adjust all exit components so as to clear all ball interferences.. The ball can nick the
--- top flat rail.. the two side thin walls, the transition tension plate...
3a) Also, make sure the undercarriage alignment is center to the exit playfield wood.
---- The ball should never touch the wood sides as it comes out from under the playfield.
You set me on the right path, thanks!
I'd tested drain and trough switches, in case it was a ball count thing, but they were all good. I had not noticed that there was an exit switch in the subway, which you pointed out. That swith was bent out of shape and no longer registering. As a result, I believe the machine was not registering ball auto launches and retrying up to 5 times for a single add-a-ball. It must be coded to retry until the ball registers and it must give up after the 5th failed attempt. Not firing the feeder at multiball - it must be coded not to feed a second ball until the first one registers as having been launched.
Quoted from Geocab:This arrived today.
[quoted image]
It'll be months before I put it in though. Game is too fresh to not play it right now and it's playing really well.
The existing one isn't too bad anyway besides the yellowing.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
Just curious if it's normal for the back side to be bare wood? Should the holes that are marked be drilled already?
The only other playfield I've gotten was my Firepower, but that was a few years ago. The back is gray and the holes were started.
[quoted image][quoted image]
It's good to take months anyways, it'll give the clear time to cure.
I think the holes you're referring to are all just for lamps. Those don't need to be predrilled. I did find with my Addams playfield swap that a lot of through holes for posts and such were undersized and needed to be redrilled, so you might run in to some of that.
Good luck with the swap, take your time and be patient with yourself. The underside of Centaur is very tightly packed, it's gonna be a doozy!
Quoted from Sheev_Palpatine:Can someone please send me some pics of the dual leaf flipper switch (right side)
Mine is wired backwards so the first part of the switch is doing the lane change and the second part of the switch is the flipper. Also I’m not sure if this is the correct switch for the machine?
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Charlottetown, PE
West Chicago, IL
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