Wait a sec - the holes you're trying to line the hinge hole up with, are they the ones right next to the hinge in your photo? Those holes aren't for the hinge, they're for the brackets on the coin chutes. Here's a photo of the holes you use to screw the hinge to the door skin.

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Ah yes your are right sir.....never noticed that next row of screw holes...

Here's a curiosity regarding flipper alignment

My Centaur is the red rubbers and the white rubbers is from a Pinball venue.

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I aligned my flippers so they point to the holes in the PF, which I assumed were alignment holes?
But the other centaur has those bangback wires in the holes with no other holes available.

Which is as intended? I would have thought those wires were installed in the factory but this says otherwise

Yours is correct, but I think you knew that
Factory alignment is the flipper tips to the divots. Same for all Ballys of that era. Here's Medusa as a reference with the lighted inserts under the flippers.

Must be awfully tough hitting the inline drop targets from the left double chamber lane on that location game.

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I know its been posted here sometime ago, but Cliffy makes the above pictured lane guides for Centaur...well not sure they're large enough to call a lane guide...but you get the drift...http://passionforpinball.com/FlipFrames/Centaur-lanes-001.jpg

Thought I'd share a solution to an issue I was having with the Queen's chamber inline drop targets. I recently picked up a Centaur II, and noticed that the third drop target would not drop. Couldn't even drop using my hands. It felt like arm mechanisms was stuck or locked. Also noticed the back 2 targets stood a hair higher than the other 2. I pulled out the drop target mech to see what could be causing it. Everything looked fine, the first 2 targets worked great, but not the back 2. Pulled everything apart and cleaned it. Still the same. Switched springs and targets, no change. Started looking closely at the housing and noticed it was not square. The section that has the slots that hold the target arms in place was skewed and uneven with shaft that runs through the target arms. The increase gap was allowing just enough of the rear curved part of the target arm to get wedged against the bracket when the coil would fire.

Solution? Nylon hammered that sucker to get it as straight as I could and close the gap. Works great now.

Pics show the before and after straightening the housing. The pic with arrow is for reference to show the curved part of the arm that was getting wedged in the slotted bracket because of the increased gapping.

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I noticed that in your top pic...the long shaft seems off...looking closely at it.. I see that the side panel on one end is mounted on the outside, the other end its mounted in the inside...maybe this is also causing some issues...?

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Ha good eye! I didn’t notice that. I guess someone in the past put it back together incorrectly. It’s working fine now, but next time I pull it out I’ll assemble it correctly. Thanks!

Does someone have a pic of how this wire is connected? I believe it is the return (13) for the 4th inline drop target on strobe 5 of the switch matrix. It's an orange and black wire.

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Right on the end I believe

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Thanks again! Looks like it has to be against the switch tab, too.

Noticed all my drop targets mechs are set up with some kind ground wire between the targets. I don't see that on yours.

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You need the feed wire (it's not ground). It's usually bare wire on drop banks but it's ok the way it's wired. The pics without the wire I don't see how that will work at all. The tab should NOT touch the other tab with the diode, there are 3 tabs on the switch, none should touch any other one. Just wires on 2, and the diode on one and the odd tab out that doesn't have a wire.

Yes my other two drop mechs are bare feed wire. Thanks for the description on the orientation. My other banks are set up as you described. Got it back together.

Picked it up 2 weeks ago and got it working great. Wanted to get everything working before I start ordering stuff.

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Haa.. yes I'm in the middile of a restoration and had this out of the machine....after taking the picture...I realized I never put the common wire in...which I did afterward...good luck with your machine...

Is it a pain to adjust the height of the drop targets? I have one drop in the queens chamber that is a little low and sometimes the ball gets hung up.

I had to fix that on my Xenon, just a strip of cardboard of the appropriate thickness taped underneath the targets. Easy peasy.

Not hard at all. There are several adjustment screws on the side next to the target switches. Note the arrow pointing to one in the pic. Hardest part for some is getting the playfield up and out to lean it against the backbox. I've done by myself about 50 times already in the past few days lol.

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Ok thank you very much for the pic! Yeah not the best design for working on the playfield. Lifting that out by yourself and getting it on that cradle and back sucks.

I replaced my MPU with an ultimate MPU board. I have speech but no music. the squawk and talk was playing music and speech before and now it stopped playing the background music with the ultimate board hooked up? I am wondering if I have a jumper wrong?

Have you tried the self-test button adjustment?

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Yeah thank you! Section 18 in the menu was set to the wrong setting I changed it to 03 and the music came back on! Thanks again!

Looking for some assistance on the lane change wiring. Long story short - I moved a CII PF in to a CI game. All connections are completed, but I'm stuck on lane change connections. I can see the two wires grey/yellow and brown wires that come from the flippers. You can see it ends in a 2 prong connection, but I have no idea where it connects to from here. I've looked at other games in hopes of seeing in to the rectifier board, but nothing stands out.

Can anyone take a picture of the connection of these wires at the bottom of the cab?

Much appreciated.

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There should be a corresponding connector coming from the head harness. It plugs into J2 on the MPU I believe.

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CPR has reproduced the Centaur II Backglass.

https://classicplayfields.com/?s=Centaur+II&post_type=product

Human needs help!

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/bally-centaur-no-solenoids-no-sound-

Just joined the club!

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Haggis doing a remake...I like the side rails....

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so...what is the general consensus regarding the value of our original Centaur games? Will this make our pins more valuable or less? I am thinking it will stabilize the pricing. I have a nice refurbed Centaur and I was thinking of asking $6000 but now I am thinking maybe $7500....

The supply received a sudden increase and you think it makes yours more valuable?

Sure! A new one cost minimum $15000. I think that bumps up the desire factor and they can buy a nice refurbed original for half the price! If you look at other titles such as Attack from Mars or that one with the castle, the originals are no less sought after….

Does not change my opinion a jot, mine isn't for sale.

Supply Vs Demand

The Supply is increasing. The demand more than likely has not.

Your look at the other remakes is off. AFM, MMR, Monster Bash, Cactus Canyon were worth close to or more than the remakes were at the time they came out. AFM did not jump in price due to the remake. In some cases the originals became worth a little less, especially in the short term. Buyers in the market said why pay for a blown out original when they could go buy a brand new game with a warranty for similar money.

Some will always want the original. Some will want a new game which unless its from a named restorer won't happen with an original. The entry level game is US$10,024, not 15k as that was in australian dollars. Its not half price. Its 2500 dollars difference, for a 40 year old game with no warranty, and that isn't going to be in brand new condition.

Do I think Haggis is overpriced? Sure, do I think it suddenly makes my game worth 1500 dollar more? No. Once the Haggis games are out of production and the game disappear into people's collection the price will stabilize/start creeping up. In the mean time I expect Centaur to have a softer market, because you have fewer buyers competing for the originals.

I say this as someone who just did a 16 hour roadtrip to get a centaur project I plan on flipping. Sucks, but oh well.

Actually it is not. What Haggis is offering is not a "Bally Centaur" and I'd never own one.

Every singe game I have played with a "plastic playfield surface" like what Haggis is offering has played notably different than a traditional playfield and I'll not own one. Full stop.

There are very few Haggis Fathoms on the market and that certainly did not affect OG Fathom values. The supply really isn't there. Haggis isn't going to be pumping out games anytime soon. People will be waiting 1-2 years before they will start seeing the first Centuar games ship.

If you wanted to sell a Centuar, the time is fine today as it was before the release. If I were to sell mine (which I'm not going to) I would have no hesitation listing it for what I would have originally asked for it. I wouldn't feel so dismayed if I were you. Fix it up and sell it!

Do you think there are a high number of Centaur Buyers at 6k? I don't. There are some, but some of those are going to order a Haggis version now and be out of the market regardless of how long it takes for them to get it.

There were 3500 produced 40 years ago. A large number destroyed over the years. The value is in the scarcity. I will do fine. Not worried about it. I do not expect to raise my price 1500 dollars over what it was before Haggis announced and if the market is a little softer I will still make a fair bit when it is ready to go, which it is not.

What CGC selling is not a Williams MMR. They still sold. I know people who bought new translites and speaker panels so it would say williams. Just because you care and want to make it a hill to die on does not mean everyone will. From experience most of the people with multiple 10k+ new games are not purists. Often they do not even maintain their own collections and are ignorant on how the games work. They like pinball and have disposable income. What the playfield is made out of is irrelevant to them. It is new. It is shiny. In their eyes it is "the best version".

I won't own one. I think 6k for a centaur is a bad joke let alone 10k. Do like the art, but I vastly prefer Flash Gordon and Eight Ball Deluxe. Two games that are worth far less than Centaur. Not everyone will hold that opinion. If Flash Gordon was worth 6k I wouldn't keep it either. There are too many other games I find more enjoyable for less money, but that is entirely my opinion.

I don't think someone will pass on a 6k Centuar for a 10k Centuar. 4k difference is a lot of money, especially for a plastic playfield and clown puke lighting and colored PF. (All things that I think hurt the game). Regardless, I think all OG Centuar owners will be fine. They won't lose money at any rate.

If they want a brand new machine, they will. An original has 40 year old wiring. Can have original sockets which are not great. Can have original connectors where the plasticizer is leeching out onto the pins. Can have original boards with cold solder joints and failing electronics that can crop up randomly. Then you come to condition issues. They will be even more likely if you raise your 6k centaur to 7500 arbitrarily. The closer it is to a new one, the more likely they are to opt for new.

Kind of amazed how this is such a hard concept to grasp given there are a number of remakes. Did Heighway Aliens jump in price when the remake was announced? MMR? AFM? MB?

What happens whenever stern pulls an in demand game out of the vault? Do the originals jump in value?

History says no. In the short term they drop in value. The originals didn't lose all value, the market just goes soft and they lose some value until the supply dries up again.

I did clearly state it was my opinion and others feel the same.

LOL.

40 year old game has stood the test of time with boards available from many vendors not to mention the originals are very rugged.; when the system running your Haggis pin dies will they be around to by a replacement in 40 years? 20? 10?

Putting a lot of faith in a start up that is already off to a very rough start.

The original boards did not stand the test of time. Sockets failed. Chips failed. Roms failed. The only reason you say they are rugged is because repair is very well documented. That coupled with parts remaining available unlike allied liesure people do not shy away from older ballys.

Components for 1970s electronics have been drying up for years and is well documented on here. Fixing original boards will become more and more difficult. That leaves the aftermarket which is not something anyone can predict. There was a time when there weren't any options for Bally. There may very well be a time when that is the case once again.

If I want something I know I can fix in 40 years I will go buy an EM. For anything SS you are rolling the dice when it comes to decades in the future.

Your post reads like post apocalyptic dialog from a Terminator movie.

I'm taking a real risk here keeping around this old Centaur.

Better sell it and pay twice the price for a NIB one, ya know, for peace of mind or something.

I do board repair for entertainment, the OEM Bally boards will be powering countless machines for decades when Haggis is gone.

Original boards do stand the test of time. (Battery damage aside) ROMS don’t fail that often and chips failures are often the 5101 RAM or AMI branded IC’s. Also any issues with original boards are well known and well documented. Once they are properly gone over, updates done, etc they are typically solid. I run original boards in just about every one of my games. They have been running well for years and in the unlikely event there are issues I can keep them going indefinitely. This is I think the key point. I think long term the original boards have a better chance of a long life.

Some of the new boards I’d have more concerns about long term reliability and repairability. Tiny surface mount parts? Brittle RoHS solder that will eventually form tin whiskers (one of the reasons I hear military electronics are exempt) and more likely to fracture, custom programmed ASIC and closed source firmware that you can’t replace and may be tougher to find down the road? No thank you. What about all the node board drama with Stern machines?

I think new boards and machines are fine but I certainly think original boards have advantages.

The problem with these arguments is that the people trying to make them do so in a bubble. They act like they can take all the benefits of age, ie a built up knowledge base for repair, but then ignore all the downsides that come with age. 40 year old electrical components with questionable reliability, cold solder joints, tarnished legs on eproms, acid corrosion from poor battery placement, and obsolete parts that are going out of production soon or already have. You can rebuild a board and make it fairly reliable, no one here is stripping the board down to a pcb and rebuilding it. Things will fail at random due to age.

You will not keep it running indefinitely It takes 1 nla component to make that board a paperweight. It is is not a question of if, but when. gdonovan
claimed 40 years. Game will be over 80 years old by then. Don't know about you, but how many people are making new parts for 1940's electronics? That is the equivalent that we are talking about.

I say all this and 100 percent agree with everyone here saying they would rather have an original from a repair stand point. The Haggis game will be more reliable in the short term. It will be harder to repair, and down the road it will have less support by aftermarket solutions due to lower production. I do not agree on the long term (decades +) view that parts will always be available. I have been in the hobby long enough to have watched electrical parts that were readily available 10+ years ago to be impossible to find now. I have also watched aftermarket solutions come and go.

Every argument you put forth can be applied to Haggis which is in a far, far worse position due to the very small number of machines made and the dubious company future. Not to mention new boards are often IMPOSSIBLE to repair unlike older boards. Ask guys trying to reverse engineer Stern node boards that have locked firmware.

Start ups fail all the time and even well established companies like Stern will leave you hanging in the breeze after a period of time.

Try buying a Whitestone MPU.

The only argument you have seems to boil down to "Haggis is new thus better!" which as someone from the auto trade makes me laugh.

New is frequently WORSE.

Yes, new is better in terms of short term reliability.

What are the arguments that everyone is making for the originals?

Originals are robust and reliable. False. They have documented fixes, but have plenty of faults.

I can fix it myself somehow translates into I can always fix it despite components being obsolete. No one here is rebuilding ic's. Speech chips are great example of this which why the only aftermarket board for s&t still available is using an mp3 player.

There is an aftermarket which has the same problems as haggis. Who is going to support geeteoh sound boards when he stops making them? Who will support alltek when they retire? Who is to say someone else will step in. There isn't any yet you guys stick your heads in the sand and act like this is just how it will always be.

Lastly don't preach to me about failed startups. I have owned alvin g, highway, Suncoast, Capcom and spinball. I bought all those games after the companies folded and am well aware of how to deal with it.

I am not preaching for haggis. I'm merely pointing out how this assumed stance of I can always fix originals or there will be replacements is foolish.

I have numerous machines that the boards have not been touched, I refute your statement just based on my own physical machines sitting 20 feet away.

Clearly unaware that there is a board maker who is making new boards right now that use the original speech chips.

You PRESUME as to why the geeteoh were built & for sale. PRESUME.

As an aftermarket board that doesn't follow the factory print really don't care. The board looks simple enough though I'd not lose any sleep either way.

Reverse Cramer touch, good to know.

Are you talking about the myinballs squawk and talk out of Europe that hasn't been for sale for awhile due to, wait for it, a lack of chips? The one that is now on preorder for a redesigned version? That one? Happy to hear of another but to date that is the only one I have seen. Three years ago I was in the market because mine was missing from a project game and it was out of stock back then.

For some historical proof here is a discussion about it, 3 years ago discussing how it uses nla parts. https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/reproduction-bally-squawk-and-talk-board

As for your own limited experience good for you. Glad to hear the work and you never once have to fix anything, ever, because your magic 40 year old machines are perfect in everyway and could never do any wrong

*Edit*
applejuice replied to the thread I posted an hour after I posted this. Seems he does still have 4-5 boards left from the last batch he made. Odd, that he replied to a dead three year old thread he never bothered posting in back in the day, but does within an hour of me posting this... Also odd that his site showed it as out of stock, before I made my post (I looked) but now can be ordered. Either way, I was wrong you can currently get a S&T using original chips. Still going to stick with GPE's comment that it uses many nla parts three years ago, because of anyone on here GPE would have known how obtainable components are.

lol.