(Topic ID: 48888)

Centaur Club.....Members Only!

By vster23

10 years ago


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There are 2,313 posts in this topic. You are on page 32 of 47.
#1551 2 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

The diode isolates that switch to a single point in the matrix. Without it, the switch closing will falsely cause other switches in the matrix to appear as closed at the same time.
You haven't mentioned if the game is not detecting the switch 08 closure or if it's always detecting switch 08 is stuck closed (stuck switches are put on the ignore list to prevent the game repeatedly scoring because of it).
So what is switch test mode telling you about the outhole? Stuck or never detecting it closing?
BTW when you start a game, the ball should be kicked to the shooter lane regardless of the state of the outhole switch. It's only when you lose the first ball that it won't respond.

During switch test mode nothing happens with that switch. Manually when you push the switch it doesn't detect it. All the other switches seem to work though. If the diode was bad wouldn't that show the switch stuck on?

#1552 2 years ago
Quoted from pacman11:

If the diode was bad wouldn't that show the switch stuck on?

No, because the diode is in series with the switch, not parallel across the switch.

How is your multi-meter test of that diode going? make sure you do it with the machine OFF.

#1553 2 years ago
Quoted from Quench:

No, because the diode is in series with the switch, not parallel across the switch.
How is your multi-meter test of that diode going? make sure you do it with the machine OFF.

Diode tested good.

#1554 2 years ago
Quoted from pacman11:

Diode tested good.

Check for a broken wire on the two switch strobes that converge to the outhole switch.
[ I7 = wire color 52 white-blue ] most likely switch wire to left outlane.
[ ST0 = wire color 51 white-red ] most likely switch to ball trough 4th,5th.
You can test continuity by using voltmeter to test wire colors.
If all good, then something is wrong with the main switch.

#1555 2 years ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

Check for a broken wire on the two switch strobes that converge to the outhole switch.
[ I7 = wire color 52 white-blue ] most likely switch wire to left outlane.
[ ST0 = wire color 51 white-red ] most likely switch to ball trough 4th,5th.
You can test continuity by using voltmeter to test wire colors.
If all good, then something is wrong with the main switch.

I'll check that tomorrow, I did check continuity to the MPU from the switch and I had continuity all the way to the MPU. So out hole switch 8 has continuity from switch to the MPU - Connector J2 white/red wire

#1556 2 years ago

Update- alright swapped in a new mpu and that fixed the problem. Something on the MPU was causing the switch not to work. One more problem to fix is the sound board isn’t working. Any thoughts on that?

#1557 2 years ago

Here’s some pictures of my sound board, any suggestions? When I unplug the bottom left connector the sound board led flashes 5 times then goes out.

1C0F83EF-F134-476B-8E96-B77E0D3E5076 (resized).jpeg1C0F83EF-F134-476B-8E96-B77E0D3E5076 (resized).jpeg9D98819A-AD25-46C9-96B4-311BDF6E816F (resized).jpeg9D98819A-AD25-46C9-96B4-311BDF6E816F (resized).jpegDABD7E00-4C50-431B-BBA1-2FD8E203F268 (resized).jpegDABD7E00-4C50-431B-BBA1-2FD8E203F268 (resized).jpeg

#1558 2 years ago

Am I missing a connector here?

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#1559 2 years ago

Alright after messing with the sound board I plugged the bottom left connector in one pin off and screwed something up.. Damn it.. Small solenoid fuse blew under playfield replace it now left slingshot is stuck on.. Must of blown a transistor on driverboard. What kind of transistor do I need a tip121? Which one operates the left slingshot?

#1560 2 years ago
Quoted from Heretic_9:

Are there no businesses *here* that have gotten into the business of 3D printer fabrication of otherwise very-scarce-to-unobtainable parts ? Seems like that could be a niche someone would have found worth filling . . . except where they might run into a rights-exclusivity issue, as per some Gottlieb stuff.

I have a small range of stuff at Shapeways

https://www.shapeways.com/marketplace?q=swinksreproduction&sort=newest

The shapeways gear is solid laser bound nylon particles which creates very solid parts made on $500k machines.

Just be careful if people offer other or similar parts that are home printed as those parts will not be solid and will be no where near as strong and durable and the finish not as good.

#1561 2 years ago
Quoted from swinks:

I have a small range of stuff at Shapeways
https://www.shapeways.com/marketplace?q=swinksreproduction&sort=newest
The shapeways gear is solid laser bound nylon particles which creates very solid parts made on $500k machines.
Just be careful if people offer other or similar parts that are home printed as those parts will not be solid and will be no where near as strong and durable and the finish not as good.

Thanks. Good to know, I've now bookmarked your site.

Is it plausible that people could come to you with a sample of some (basic) part, asking "Could you run off a few spares of these for me ?" If so, would that be at all cost effective, for non-large quantities ? Might it run afoul of any rights issues, re parts originally made by certain manufacturers ?

#1562 2 years ago

Fellow Centaur owners a question you can perhaps answer for me.

About one time out of ten the ball loader solenoid will fail to get a ball into the underground launcher. You will hear the mech fire but the ball doesn't make it into position. Its just random enough I can't quite witness it but the one time I did the ball seemed to be launched hard out of the trough and actually bounced back in place before the next ball in line could move forward.

Anyone else run into this? I tried tweaking the pawl position, weaker spring, stronger spring and even a piece of foam on the "stop tab" across from the trough opening which seemed to help.

Of course when the ball doesn't load proper, it will try and launch the ball (which isn't there) 3 or 4 times before giving up. You would think the switch in the center not being tripped by a ball launch would let the MPU know nothing is happening and try again to load a ball.

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#1563 2 years ago

Duplicate post.

#1564 2 years ago

greetings humans. quick question...one of the things i see with my game since the cpr swap is the balls seem to hit the glass alot.....especially off of the center targets and even the drop targets, sometimes off of the kickers. is this easily correctable or do i have a deeper problem like the playfield being thicker or something? maybe part placement when i swapped them? also it seems like this machine is never complete or perfect....at one point do i call it done and feel comfortable selling it with it's little quirks? is there ever such a thing as a perfectly running pin table?

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#1565 2 years ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

Fellow Centaur owners a question you can perhaps answer for me.
About one time out of ten the ball loader solenoid will fail to get a ball into the underground launcher. You will hear the mech fire but the ball doesn't make it into position. Its just random enough I can't quite witness it but the one time I did the ball seemed to be launched hard out of the trough and actually bounced back in place before the next ball in line could move forward.
Anyone else run into this? I tried tweaking the pawl position, weaker spring, stronger spring and even a piece of foam on the "stop tab" across from the trough opening which seemed to help.
Of course when the ball doesn't load proper, it will try and launch the ball (which isn't there) 3 or 4 times before giving up. You would think the switch in the center not being tripped by a ball launch would let the MPU know nothing is happening and try again to load a ball.
[quoted image][quoted image]

That problem is inherit to the game.
I did a modification to the 1st ball micro switch. I used a long flat blade type.
That stopped a lot of problems with the game.

#1566 2 years ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

That problem is inherit to the game.
I did a modification to the 1st ball micro switch. I used a long flat blade type.
That stopped a lot of problems with the game.

Well thats unfortunate as it will drive me crazy.

Have a picture of the switch install? I have a few other ideas to try as well.

#1567 2 years ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

Fellow Centaur owners a question you can perhaps answer for me.
About one time out of ten the ball loader solenoid will fail to get a ball into the underground launcher. You will hear the mech fire but the ball doesn't make it into position. Its just random enough I can't quite witness it but the one time I did the ball seemed to be launched hard out of the trough and actually bounced back in place before the next ball in line could move forward.
Anyone else run into this? I tried tweaking the pawl position, weaker spring, stronger spring and even a piece of foam on the "stop tab" across from the trough opening which seemed to help.
Of course when the ball doesn't load proper, it will try and launch the ball (which isn't there) 3 or 4 times before giving up. You would think the switch in the center not being tripped by a ball launch would let the MPU know nothing is happening and try again to load a ball.
[quoted image][quoted image]

That looks like a flipper mech with the EOS tab broken off, not an outhole kicker. I thought I had a picture of it, but I don't. I don't have access to my game, but it should be the same or similar to other Bally games of the same era. Do you have another game that you can look at? Otherwise, I can get a picture when I get home.

#1568 2 years ago

It's not an outhole kicker, it's the mech that feeds balls from the trough to the launcher under the playfield.

#1569 2 years ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

It's not an outhole kicker, it's the mech that feeds balls from the trough to the launcher under the playfield.

oh gotcha. Totally misunderstood.

If I recall correctly, that solenoid is just a stop. It doesn't actively kick a ball into the underground launcher. It basically pulls open and allows a ball to roll into the launch. Again, I might be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure this is that function of that solenoid.

#1570 2 years ago

View from the top- Not unlike the Data East ball lock for Time Machine or Back to the Future which looks like a crescent moon.

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#1571 2 years ago

Here it is when I was putting my swap back together. I didnt have the second part of the track installed here, but you can see the little tip that stops the balls from rolling. I would check to see if there are any burrs or anything that might hamper the ball from rolling down. I assume you've checked/cleaned the mech as well.

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#1572 2 years ago

Everything operates smoothly, no burrs. If you go into coil test it will launch them all day too. Just under heavy game play it will drop the ball time to time so to speak.

#1573 2 years ago

Does anyone have a reproduction Centaur playfield they no longer need? Looking, Let me know what you have please and thank you.

#1574 2 years ago

looking for some alternate price plate for my machine, anyone know where these are from?

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/123675

#1575 2 years ago
Quoted from hisokajp:

looking for some alternate price plate for my machine, anyone know where these are from?
https://pinside.com/pinball/market/classifieds/ad/123675

Maybe message the seller to find out?

#1576 2 years ago
Quoted from vec-tor:

That problem is inherit to the game.
I did a modification to the 1st ball micro switch. I used a long flat blade type.
That stopped a lot of problems with the game.

Between adding a 1 Ohm resistor to the coil power and careful adjustment to the mech I have been able to tune this out today.

Worked perfect over several games.

20220218_193015 (resized).jpg20220218_193015 (resized).jpg
#1577 2 years ago

Now if only the game wasn't quite so damn difficult. Anyone who says otherwise, I'd really like to have you demo that for me ! It's a low-scoring game, even at 5 balls, which I believe was the original intention. So very many drains -- everywhere that it's possible to drain -- unfavorable bounces and unfortunate trajectories. Endless frustration, replay levels rather hard to come by . . . though the challenge of it does keep you coming back for some more punishment. "Ah, I really tanked on that last game, pathetic in fact; maybe just one more." I can think of some top-notch players on latter day Sterns, where I'd really like to see how well they fare on a game like this.

Quite likely there are game strategy approaches that I haven't discovered yet. Like going for those right side drops, rather than relying on ricochet luck to get them. I do work the rollovers fairly well, going for 3X scoring or better. (That said, there have been plenty of games where I had 5x scoring going from Ball 3 on, and it just wasn't enough.) My attempts on nudging to avoid drains -- without tilting, of course -- have been effective 10 % of the time, at best. Could definitely benefit from some better technique for that.

#1578 2 years ago

I've found that adjusting the posts on the outlanes really affects whether or not the ball will go thru the gate or just drain. To keep myself humble, I have one side set on conservative, and the other side set on liberal.

Yes, the game if frustrating for me, too. It keeps me coming back for more.

#1579 2 years ago
Quoted from Billc479:

I've found that adjusting the posts on the outlanes really affects whether or not the ball will go thru the gate or just drain. To keep myself humble, I have one side set on conservative, and the other side set on liberal.
Yes, the game if frustrating for me, too. It keeps me coming back for more.

Can you provide more details on the "How To" of those alternate gate adjustments ? (My Centaur is stock. All I've ever done with it since I got it was to have a couple of broken plastic 'ORBS' drop targets replaced, and to have some issue with the target for triggering the MB trap door fixed. When the latter was done, most hits to the target at the appropriate times were not registering. At the moment, it looks like about 1 in 4 of such hits are again not registering, with a failure to initiate the MB, so perhaps whatever that problem was is creeping back ? And you know, making that shot when the time comes is hard enough; not getting the earned result becomes really annoying !)

What I see routinely is that a forceful carom that goes through the return gate on its own is pretty rare. Without the right nudging technique applied, it mostly ain't happening. Perhaps an adjustment like you referenced would even things up a bit more and reduce the frustration. However, if that involved drilling new holes in the pf for posts placement, I would not be down with that.

#1580 2 years ago
Quoted from Heretic_9:

What I see routinely is that a forceful carom that goes through the return gate on its own is pretty rare. Without the right nudging technique applied, it mostly ain't happening. Perhaps an adjustment like you referenced would even things up a bit more and reduce the frustration. However, if that involved drilling new holes in the pf for posts placement, I would not be down with that.

Are you using rubber or silicone? I've found since I replaced all the rubber rings with silicone, the ball bounces back into the inlane maybe 50% of the time. And during multiball, you really have to be on your toes if the balls go down that lane, since they're often fed back into play when you least expect it!

Silicone (resized).JPGSilicone (resized).JPG
#1581 2 years ago

In the manual, under playfield adjustments, talks about adjusting the playfield posts. It refers to figure II, but I don’t see that figure.

They are talking about the top posts on the out lanes, the ones that are parallel with the posts holding the bottom of the gates. Under those posts are pre drilled holes where you adjust the post positions for conservative(decreased play time & scoring) or liberal(increased play time and higher scores). There should not be any hole drilling required.

#1582 2 years ago
Quoted from Dakine747:

Are you using rubber or silicone? I've found since I replaced all the rubber rings with silicone, the ball bounces back into the inlane maybe 50% of the time. And during multiball, you really have to be on your toes if the balls go down that lane, since they're often fed back into play when you least expect it![quoted image]

That's a very interesting alternative. I had been thinking along the "What If ?" lines of if you could have something thicker and bouncier on those posts, and you just provided the proof ! So, what are those red donuts called exactly, and where do you order them from ? This solution would also seem to have the advantage of being no muss, no fuss, quickly reversible to stock.

I'm also thinking about the stronger flippers rebuild discussed a bit earlier in this thread. I have gotten to (past) the last inline drop target on Metallica for what can be scored there, also on Fathom I think, but never on Paragon or Centaur. Different reasons involved across those, but with Centaur the problem is the strength of the shot.

#1583 2 years ago

Those donuts are called 5/16" rubber rings. You can get the silicon ones at Marco or Pinball Life.

Vid has a document on how to change the flippers. Go to Vid's Guide to Upgrading/Rebuilding Flippers, post # 520. Rebuilding Bally Linear Flippers. I did this, and have no problems hitting any targets. Be aware some purists will ride you for changing to this.

What were your thoughts on changing the post location?

Good Luck

#1584 2 years ago
Quoted from Billc479:

Those donuts are called 5/16" rubber rings. You can get the silicon ones at Marco or Pinball Life.
Vid has a document on how to change the flippers. Go to Vid's Guide to Upgrading/Rebuilding Flippers, post # 520. Rebuilding Bally Linear Flippers. I did this, and have no problems hitting any targets. Be aware some purists will ride you for changing to this.
What were your thoughts on changing the post location?
Good Luck

It is usually an interesting debate regarding making most any changes from the stock machine. I can see the "purist's" position as to "No, that's how it was designed." But there can often be extenuating circumstances . . . and I have mixed feelings on the subject. With my Williams Jackpot (the 4-player edition of Klondike), the stock flippers are just not strong enough to make the shot of getting the ball up to either of the saucer holes at top. Except once in a rare while, almost by some rare and uncontrolled ricochet. That's a deficit, because making both saucers on a single ball will light the high points pop bumper, which is otherwise never lit. The result is a HUGE opportunity that never gets presented. And I'm doubting that there is any Vid-style fix for Williams flippers of that era. (I'd really like to be wrong about that.)

One of my primary dissatisfactions with the history of a certain large regional tourney was that the tournament directors always futzed around with the games, detuning them, removing key pf pieces etc., in an effort to slow down the top level players and make things a lot harder for them. In my view, this process screws things up tremendously for middling to lower-skill players -- and I'm middling, at best -- skewing things greatly to their disadvantage. It's not really comparable to a handicap in golf, which is a lot more logical. So, I'm not in the habit of rewarding things where the odds are stacked against me unfairly. Covid made all of this moot for a couple years, but even with the resumption of that tournament, I'm not rushing back.

On the flipside, you could make a reasonable argument that "improving" certain game functions is skewing things in the opposite direction.

As to Centaur, I'm thinking that Dakine747's solution in post # 1580 is by far the easier and more elegant one, the one that I'd be inclined to try first. The flipper rebuild is something I would consider, but likely outside my DIY skillset, so I'd probably have to have it done by my regular tech. Since I'm not putting this game into tournaments, the decision becomes more about making the game more accessible and enjoyable *to me.* (It's kind of odd to me that my best score to date was on a routed Centaur -- also in stock setup -- years before I ever owned one. The best I've managed at home thus far is 3 mil., just clearing the Level 2 of Replay.) With that flipper fix, I might have some concern about increased propensity for airballs, including those that bounce off of the glass, or possibly breaking certain plastic pieces more often. On the other hand, I have put away a decent stock of spares, which is something I generally try to do.

#1585 2 years ago

Heretic - I have not noticed a lot of air balls or hitting of the glass. I am a lower level player, and don’t abuse a machine (shaking hard, playing with the tilt warning count, etc.) so maybe I am not getting as many glass hits as others would.

Like you said, your tech may be able to change the flippers, and while there, maybe show you how to change the post position so you can experiment with that. It’s all up to you.

I think I would not be happy with someone jerking stuff off of a machine to make it difficult. If I had played that title before, I would expect it to be the same. To find organizers bastardized machines would make me not enter, too.

I have not looked at Vids entire flipper thread. There may be something on there for your Wms machine.

#1586 2 years ago

I wrapped up my Centaur project this week and have a set of unused Mantis ball guides if anyone is interested.

$170 shipped in the United States priority mail.

Centaurballguide (resized).jpgCentaurballguide (resized).jpge674f970ca1b7a5042c516f3842b5f20630adc76 (resized).jpge674f970ca1b7a5042c516f3842b5f20630adc76 (resized).jpg
#1587 2 years ago
Quoted from gdonovan:

I wrapped up my Centaur project this week and have a set of unused Mantis ball guides if anyone is interested.
$170 shipped in the United States priority mail.
[quoted image][quoted image]

How is that different from stock ? I'm not sure what the previous owner might have done with mine, but it looks like at least some of that is already present. (I associated the 'Mantis' name with games that have a scoop, like AFM after the gate retracts, where you'd want to protect the wood from ball hits.)

#1588 2 years ago
Quoted from Dakine747:

Are you using rubber or silicone? I've found since I replaced all the rubber rings with silicone, the ball bounces back into the inlane maybe 50% of the time. And during multiball, you really have to be on your toes if the balls go down that lane, since they're often fed back into play when you least expect it![quoted image]

I have ordered these, and am looking forward to their arrival. Do you replace ALL of those rings, or only certain ones ? In looking over the pf, it looked to me like certain placements might constrict the lane and actually impede ball travel ?

#1589 2 years ago
Quoted from Heretic_9:

How is that different from stock ? I'm not sure what the previous owner might have done with mine, but it looks like at least some of that is already present. (I associated the 'Mantis' name with games that have a scoop, like AFM after the gate retracts, where you'd want to protect the wood from ball hits.)

These are all replacements for restoration. I was going to build a Centaur from scratch and was collecting parts and ended up with a loaded 1981 playfield.

#1590 2 years ago
Quoted from Heretic_9:

I have ordered these, and am looking forward to their arrival. Do you replace ALL of those rings, or only certain ones ? In looking over the pf, it looked to me like certain placements might constrict the lane and actually impede ball travel ?

I don’t see a reason you’d have to replace ALL of them if you choose not to, however replacing all wouldn’t necessarily cause any “constriction”. I chose to replace them all since I went from the basic white ones to all blood red. Really stands out well against the black and white.

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#1591 2 years ago
Quoted from Dakine747:

I don’t see a reason you’d have to replace ALL of them if you choose not to, however replacing all wouldn’t necessarily cause any “constriction”. I chose to replace them all since I went from the basic white ones to all blood red. Really stands out well against the black and white.[quoted image]

The main point is to get that routine 50 % travel back through the swing gates that you spoke of. Curiously enough, I'd estimate that the figure is more like 65 % returns -- as opposed to drains -- on my mostly stock Wm.s IJ. (The "mostly" refers to a couple toys that the previous owner added, but which are up top on the pf, and not relevant for whatever happens down near the flippers.)

#1592 2 years ago

Are you guys having any problems with the flipper rubbers rubbing on those plastics behind the flipper? Also I looking for a couple plastics if anyone has any. The two plastics behind the drop targets in the center and right side area.. If you have them PM me.. Thanks!

#1593 2 years ago
Quoted from Heretic_9:

The main point is to get that routine 50 % travel back through the swing gates that you spoke of. Curiously enough, I'd estimate that the figure is more like 65 % returns -- as opposed to drains -- on my mostly stock Wm.s IJ. (The "mostly" refers to a couple toys that the previous owner added, but which are up top on the pf, and not relevant for whatever happens down near the flippers.)

former owner here - trick is HOW you nudge! Use the heal of your hands on the corners of the game nudge up toward backglass instead of side to side. Time it exactly when it hits the post and ur back in biz damn near every time once u get it down! Practice makes perfect

#1594 2 years ago
Quoted from sleepygtr:

former owner here - trick is HOW you nudge! Use the heal of your hands on the corners of the game nudge up toward backglass instead of side to side. Time it exactly when it hits the post and ur back in biz damn near every time once u get it down! Practice makes perfect

Thanx. Was hoping for some specific advice just like this. Will give it a try.

#1595 2 years ago
Quoted from Dakine747:

Are you using rubber or silicone? I've found since I replaced all the rubber rings with silicone, the ball bounces back into the inlane maybe 50% of the time. And during multiball, you really have to be on your toes if the balls go down that lane, since they're often fed back into play when you least expect it![quoted image]

Those replacement parts arrived yesterday. So far, I have just swapped out the "donuts" on the Outer posts, as this did not require unscrewing anything. I will try to illustrate with a couple attached pics. First one shows the respective rings, for comparison's sake. At a casual glance, it looks to me as though the black ones that had been on there were actually a tad larger. And -- so far -- the results have been negligible. Might I need some donuts that are in fact a larger diameter than this . . . and "bouncier" ? Should I be forcing them down further on the conical posts, closer to the pf surface ? Second pic covers the "After" status. At the moment I'm thinking that continuing further with replacement of the other donuts would not improve things appreciably.

alternate pf 'donuts' (resized).jpgalternate pf 'donuts' (resized).jpgtransitional Centaur pf (2) (resized).jpgtransitional Centaur pf (2) (resized).jpg

#1596 2 years ago

Hey - has anyone who has done a centaur playfield swap know off hand how many tnuts you need?

#1597 2 years ago
Quoted from mad_carl:

Hey - has anyone who has done a centaur playfield swap know off hand how many tnuts you need?

Approximately 25 6/32 "T" nuts.

#1598 2 years ago

If beefing up week spots with 8/32 "T" nuts approximately add 10 or so too replace
the 6/32 "T" nuts.

#1599 2 years ago
Quoted from Heretic_9:

Those replacement parts arrived yesterday. So far, I have just swapped out the "donuts" on the Outer posts, as this did not require unscrewing anything. I will try to illustrate with a couple attached pics. First one shows the respective rings, for comparison's sake. At a casual glance, it looks to me as though the black ones that had been on there were actually a tad larger. And -- so far -- the results have been negligible. Might I need some donuts that are in fact a larger diameter than this . . . and "bouncier" ? Should I be forcing them down further on the conical posts, closer to the pf surface ? Second pic covers the "After" status. At the moment I'm thinking that continuing further with replacement of the other donuts would not improve things appreciably.
[quoted image][quoted image]

Hmmm....not sure what to tell ya. I've only had my game a short time, and yesterday, I stripped it down for a cleaning/wax. The bounce back to the inlane actually increased as a result of the carnauba wax. I'm thinking too, that the frequency of this could also determined by the exact placement of the posts. Mine has a CPR playfield, and I know that holes don't always line up exactly as they did from the factory. Also the pitch of the playfield could also determine the frequency of the carom too. Seems like there's a lot of variables here.

#1600 2 years ago

Centaur playfield misc "T-nuts"
Other misc. "T" nut info:
Long Prong Teenuts:
M-108-09
M-108-15
M-108-21
--------------
M-1908-01 (6-32)
M-1908-02 (8-32)

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