(Topic ID: 172051)

Centaur backglass NOS ebay


By HPR

2 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 16 posts
  • 10 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by pdxpinball
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 2 years ago

ebay.com link » 1981 Bally Centaur Nos Backglass

This is not an original NOS, it's a repro made in the 90's
This is not the first time i saw this error, i feel sorry for the possible buyers ...
I tried to contact the seller without sucess.

#2 2 years ago

thanks for the heads up

#3 2 years ago

I am just wondering how you know it is a repo from the 90s......
I have no stake in this other than a desire to learn FYI

#4 2 years ago
Quoted from cougtv:

I am just wondering how you know it is a repo from the 90s......
I have no stake in this other than a desire to learn FYI

I had both an original and this version a few years ago.
Both look very similar from the front, it look like this repro was made with the original method.
The details and quality are better than a cpr for example.

The major difference is the blocklight layers in the details area, it's simple not there and like the cpr version
when light go through the glass it look greyish and not inky black with high contrast like the original.
Check my pictures, all over the black details you can see bumps of blocking lights layer to improve contrast.
If the seller is willing to take the same picture, you will see no bumbs, only a flat surface.
Also you remark that the white layer is thinner as you can see througt is more easily.

I also bought this repro version a few years ago thinking it was an NOS but i realize it was not when i bought an original one, i sold this repro and keep the original of course.

In my opinion the real value of this repro closer to 250$-300$ considering it's a better version than cpr.

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#5 2 years ago

So the bottom picture is an original?

#6 2 years ago

There were four Centaur backglass runs, not considering a fifth glass that has been made by BGResto and a limited translite run that was absolutely terrible.

Original, 90s Mirrored (Alan Meyer) , CPR Mirrored, CPR Unmirrored.

This is the 90s run, I have a NOS on my wall for comparison, and concur this is not NOS. It is also $600+ higher than it should be overall in cost. Just like the CPR Miss World backglass at $1000.

The "Ebay pinball parts wars" have returned from the early 2000s to cash in on the market until it drops.

#7 2 years ago

I've just finished up a few conversations with the seller (who was really nice and understanding). he's pulled down the auction is planning on contacting alan meyer to see if this was one that alan reproduced

#8 2 years ago
Quoted from TKDalumni:

So the bottom picture is an original?

Yes, the 2 pictures are from my personnal original glass

#9 2 years ago

That's great HPR that you posted here & made the ebay seller aware this is indeed a repro.

I bought a Centaur backglass maybe about 7 or so years ago from ebay. It was sold as a "new" a never installed backglass, no mention of a repro, assumed it was NOS. I received the backglass, looked like NOS then how I realised it was a repro as the "credit" wording in the credit window was silkscreened wording, Bally backglasses from this era always had a decal for the word "Credit", this is another way to tell immediately whether it is an original or a repro. The seller of the ebay backglass could check this detail easily also. Mine may be from the same production as the one on ebay. The ebay one looks darker, but may be the light & angle ect. of the shot.

Side by side with the repro & original, the repro looks almost exactly the same, except (as I know now) as pointed out by HPR it is not as black as the original due to the layering the original has, the repro is smooth to touch as their is not the layering, spot on, otherwise it's an incredible reproduction, resolution is almost the same. I have seen different production batches of original glasses that have much bigger variations when juxtaposed.

Soon after I noticed that they more of these repros were being sold from a website & ebay & had been sold since around 2005. This makes me now wonder if this was yet another run of Centaur repros as the Alan Meyer repros were from the 90s? This was much later when they were made & sold.

Here are some pics of my two backglasses, Repro & original, taking into account their will be some variation in the separate shots I take with the light angle & focus ect, the repro was in storage & has the packaging it was in when I received it. Pic on the left is the repro, right my original, you can see the repro is slightly lighter, but not much in it even if you are fussy. Top half of the glasses are backlit with natural light & do look similar. shading looks even less noticeable in person than the pic. You can see with the the close up the resolution is excellent, the credit decal sticker versus silkscreened & the smooth surface on the repro versus the layered on the original.

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#10 2 years ago

received the following email from topper0807 (the ebay seller):

I just spoke to Alan Meyers. Mr. Meyers states that he is adamant never did a run a the original Centaur back glass. He said that rumor has been floating around for years but it is not true. He further states that CPR only put their Centaur Reproduction back glasses out in the past few years. Mr. Meyers is not aware of any other reproduction Centaur back glasses other than CPR. My original purchase date on this glass was 2007, just about 10 years. I still have the original shipping carton and label with a shipping date on it. The name is a bit faded but addresses and date are legible. Mr. Meyers ended our conversation by saying that the original Centaur back glass was not a mirrored back glass. He stated that CPR's reproductions are typically mirrored and would show through the front on the Centaur lettering. My glass is not mirrored.

When comparing the back side of my back glass to the like photos on Pinside, I cannot discern if my "credit" lettering is a decal or screened on. If it is a decal, EACH letter is a separate decal as there is no clear decal material between the lettering. I can't imagine they would go through the hassle of trying to line up separate letters when using a decal? Lastly, the "dots" above and below the Centaur name show up on the reverse side when back lite from the front just like the photo of the back side of the original back glass.

All this leaves me more confused. Are you or anyone you may know aware of any other person/entity who might have made a Centaur reproduction back glass OTHER than Alan Meyers or CPR? If I purchased this glass in 2007, and it is not an Alan Meyers back glass nor a CPR back glass, there is either another person/entity making this glass in that time frame or it has to be an original. Keep in mind production methods do change even within a single year, it is just the nature of manufacturing processes, and changes are normally made to correct problems and or save time, both of which can cause minor variation.

seeing as it's obviously not a repro done by alan, does anyone here have any further information to shed some light on this?

#11 2 years ago

Ok to clarify a few things, to discern if their is it is a decal or screened lettering look at my pic of the credit decal, you can see the decal edge along the top that extends beyond the lettering, if you can't see that edge you can run your finger nail along the top edge of the decal & unmistakeably feel the straight decal's raised edge running all the way along past the lettering, no mistake, if you can't feel this straight raised edge along the top of the lettering it is screened lettering & is a repro, (and repros do exist).

Here is a summary about the history of Centaur repro backglasses as I know it:

Someone out in Denver was doing a run of (non mirrored) repros around 2005, they were sold up till about 2008. They surfaced on ebay from time to time & also could be found being sold directly from a website, Then they disappeared. These are the only repros as far as I know & if any backglass doesn't meets the criteria with the decal or the raised layering on the ink it is probably one of those. Other that those repros their is only the 2 CPR versions.

#12 2 years ago

If this glass was not Alan's I have no idea.
This is news to me based on his other glasses he did make.
Kudos for the email conversation.

This was nearly 20 years ago, and many of the early reproduction makers after 1999 were berated by CDLs in the 2000s during the license battles between Rick, Wayne, Gene, and some others.

Most were shut down never to make parts again.

The answer may be lost to time now.

#13 2 years ago

I have an NOS Centaur backglass if anyone needs a photo for reference.

#14 2 years ago

Is nobody considering the possibility that these are NOS Bally backglasses, just from long after the game was made, when there was enough demand that they were forced to do another run of them?

When the original run was done, Paul Faris would have been all over the process, making sure everything was done and redone and tweaked specifically to this art to make it look like his vision. If there was another run done a few years later, it would have just been some guy from Purchasing or Parts Sales coordinating with the screening vendor to ship them the films, which would be run in whatever their current process was, with any institutional knowledge of Centaur-specific tweaks long gone. My dim recollection is that something similar happened with Williams Black Knight blackglasses - there were the original ones, then there was the run done by Parts Sales a few years later, and they're not quite the same, but they are all "NOS Williams Black Knight backglasses." In both these cases, we're talking about gorgeous wall-hanging-worthy art, so there would have been demand for more glasses beyond the normal handful that are ordered to replace broken ones.

I'm checking with Jim Patla to see if he has any insight into this.

#15 2 years ago

And a perfect example if I recall!

Quoted from pdxpinball:I have an NOS Centaur backglass if anyone needs a photo for reference.

#16 2 years ago
Quoted from KHL:

And a perfect example if I recall!

As near to perfect as I've seen,but my eyes aren't what they use to be

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