(Topic ID: 303703)

CCr ~ Cactus Canyon Remake LE buyers Toppergate!!!! with poll

By Yesh23

2 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 74 posts
  • 38 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by tonyf1965
  • Topic is favorited by 7 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic poll

“CCr ~ Cactus Canyon Remake LE buyers Toppergate!!!! with poll”

  • Inviglass 3 votes
    2%
  • Mirrored Backglass 28 votes
    22%
  • 1/2 off Lyman code when it comes out 16 votes
    13%
  • Even a longer warranty 0 votes
  • Added knocker with an extra gunshot code for LE buyers 4 votes
    3%
  • Something small added 2 votes
    2%
  • I'm good....I just feel lucky I landed one 54 votes
    43%
  • I'm good....Just don't bait and switch us with game #5 20 votes
    16%

(127 votes)

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

D61CCD7D-34C3-44AA-83EA-DAF3CFBE57AB.gif
thumb_what-we-lhave-here-s-atailureto-communicate-failure-to-communicate-54102365 (resized).png
9516BE7A-1507-4CEE-9E3A-351C460497A7 (resized).jpeg
pasted_image (resized).png

There are 74 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.
-26
#1 2 years ago

Just curious what LE buyers would want to see to make them happy again with CGC due to Toppergate? This thread wasn't created to bash CGC but to get an opinion on what LE buyers are thinking.

#2 2 years ago

What is topper gate?

#3 2 years ago

The game

#4 2 years ago
Quoted from Davidus56:

What is topper gate?

Loss of arms?

#5 2 years ago

“happy again”?

I’m happy now. CGC doesn’t need to do anything for LE buyers.

Anyone who feels slighted by toppergate can cancel their LE order and get a full refund. Then if you still want the topper you can pay the same price for the SE+ and give up the side art, free shaker, the wooden arch, cool trim and 1/2 the warranty.

#6 2 years ago

Missing an option: Just don't bait and switch us next time, please. That's all.

CCr LE is still a great value. Don't really "need" anything extra.

50
#7 2 years ago

This is dumb. Why the fuck does anyone feel that CGC "owes" you anything. This place is getting stupid. Shut the fuck up and go play pinball.

-2
#8 2 years ago

since your asking, 8 ball and strippers in the box, please.

#9 2 years ago
Quoted from joetechbob:

Missing an option: Just don't bait and switch us next time, please. That's all.
CCr LE is still a great value. Don't really "need" anything extra.

That's been added

#10 2 years ago
Quoted from joetechbob:

Missing an option: Just don't bait and switch us next time, please. That's all.
CCr LE is still a great value. Don't really "need" anything extra.

A bait and switch would imply fraud and CGC knowingly prepared to offer the topper separately prior to selling the LE in order to get more LE sales. I don't think that was the case here - I think after the launch they realized, based on public comments, that the topper was more integral to the game and more desired than they thought, and they viewed satisfying a majority of their customer base by offering it separately than the few LE buyers who would be disgruntled. And I'm willing to wager that over half of the LE buyers that are disgruntled bought it simply to resell. Maybe even 75%+.

#11 2 years ago
Quoted from Eryeal:

A bait and switch would imply fraud and CGC knowingly prepared to offer the topper separately prior to selling the LE in order to get more LE sales. I don't think that was the case here - I think after the launch they realized, based on public comments, that the topper was more integral to the game and more desired than they thought, and they viewed satisfying a majority of their customer base by offering it separately than the few LE buyers who would be disgruntled. And I'm willing to wager that over half of the LE buyers that are disgruntled bought it simply to resell. Maybe even 75%+.

It's not even that. When they unveiled the game and told the price they said that they were considering making the topper available for SE owners to purchase. This was before companies had their allocations and before preorders officially went live.

The issue is the website had ambiguous wording which many interpreted as the topper being forever exclusive, instead of the intended, the topper only comes with the LE.

It just boils down to bad marketing due to ambiguous language. I don't think CGC ever had bad intentions here.

As a side note, they don't own LE owners anything more than they're getting. People are being too entitled. They're already giving us a hell of a game for the price.

-8
#12 2 years ago

It’s a total cop out that the updated code is not included and you have to pay extra. That’s a bait & switch and scummy. They didn’t tell you that until after the announcement and it’s not very obvious. They hope you got sucked by all their talk of “new code” and you don’t realize you have to pay separately for it

#13 2 years ago
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

They didn’t tell you that until after the announcement

This is not correct. At the unveiling at expo CGC-Ryan made it VERY clear that the Lyman/Josh code would be a paid upgrade

#14 2 years ago
Quoted from Only_Pinball:

This is not correct. At the unveiling at expo CGC-Ryan made it VERY clear that the Lyman/Josh code would be a paid upgrade

Well I wasn’t at Expo, and none of the promo material or press releases made that obvious. The only time I found out was thanks to a handful of Pinside posts. Normally, good practice would be to mention right off the bat that the new code was never going to be included.
They definitely kept it under wraps, justify it with whatever you want, I guess.

10
#15 2 years ago

Dumbest thread of this morning

#16 2 years ago
Quoted from Isochronic_Frost:

Well I wasn’t at Expo, and none of the promo material or press releases made that obvious. The only time I found out was thanks to a handful of Pinside posts. Normally, good practice would be to mention right off the bat that the new code was never going to be included.
They definitely kept it under wraps, justify it with whatever you want, I guess.

Yeah, that's news to me too. On their website, it says it's included.

https://www.chicago-gaming.com/coinop/cactus-canyon
pasted_image (resized).pngpasted_image (resized).png

@doug_duba, could you please clarify?

#17 2 years ago
Quoted from snakesnsparklers:

Dumbest thread of this morning

From the same guy that created a Back to the Future by Deeproot thread

#18 2 years ago

Just call it something other then “LE”. Fully loaded or something along those lines.

#19 2 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

Yeah, that's news to me too. On their website, it says it's included.
https://www.chicago-gaming.com/coinop/cactus-canyon
[quoted image]
CGC_DougS, could you please clarify?

No need to clarify. It’s been confirmed multiple times. All games come with the Original and Enhanced code; all will be able to run the optional Lyman/Josh package.

#20 2 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

No need to clarify. It’s been confirmed multiple times. All games come with the Original and Enhanced code; all will be able to run the optional Lyman/Josh package.

If you just look at the current web page for the remake it says nothing about the Lyman/Josh code. When I first read what CGC has on their website I thought the "Enhanced" code WAS the Josh/Lyman package which is a reasonable assumption if you haven't been going through the threads.

CGC really needs to communicate this things clearly on their own official site rather than rely on "we said it at a gathering of people at expo" and "it is in a Pinside thread". It is pretty simple. Put it clearly on the website right at or before announcement at expo, then make sure announcement and website are 100% in alignment. Basic communication, not rocket science.

#21 2 years ago
Quoted from paul_8788:

I thought the "Enhanced" code WAS the Josh/Lyman package which is a reasonable assumption if you haven't been going through the threads.

Exactly--hence the need for clarification.

#22 2 years ago
Quoted from paul_8788:

When I first read what CGC has on their website I thought the "Enhanced" code WAS the Josh/Lyman package which is a reasonable assumption if you haven't been going through the threads.

I’m with you. I had thought that’s what was meant by enhanced code and am only now just realizing that is not the case

#23 2 years ago
Quoted from paul_8788:

CGC really needs to communicate this things clearly on their own official site rather than rely on "we said it at a gathering of people at expo" and "it is in a Pinside thread". It is pretty simple. Put it clearly on the website right at or before announcement at expo, then make sure announcement and website are 100% in alignment. Basic communication, not rocket science.

Show me any company that touts unannounced products on their web site. It’s simply not done.

Doug has said that they don’t even know what’s going to be in the package yet (it will be code + more). It’s an option for the game, not an integral part of it. On the other hand, they have been quite clear that game includes both the original and ‘finished’ code.

#24 2 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

Show me any company that touts unannounced products on their web site. It’s simply not done.

Doug has said that they don’t even know what’s going to be in the package yet (it will be code + more). It’s an option for the game, not an integral part of it. On the other hand, they have been quite clear that game includes both the original and ‘finished’ code.

See my post in the other thread about it. It isn't about them announcing the Lyman/Josh product yet. It is about making clear that the "Enhanced" code in the feature matrix refers to. They *have* announced that.

#25 2 years ago
Quoted from Yesh23:

From the same guy that created a Back to the Future by Deeproot thread

Is that supposed to mean anything? LOL

#26 2 years ago
Quoted from paul_8788:

See my post in the other thread about it. It isn't about them announcing the Lyman/Josh product yet. It is about making clear that the "Enhanced" code in the feature matrix refers to. They *have* announced that.

They reference it up top on the page:

“ Cactus Canyon features expanded game rules, new display art and new sounds all of which are exclusive to Cactus Canyon Remake. All new full-color display artwork, re-imagined within the framework of the original Williams display artwork at four times the resolution.”

Do you specifically want a line that says “The Enhanced Code implements changes that reflect the vision of the original Williams design team”?

#27 2 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

“ Cactus Canyon features expanded game rules, new display art and new sounds all of which are exclusive to Cactus Canyon Remake. All new full-color display artwork, re-imagined within the framework of the original Williams display artwork at four times the resolution.”

...which sounds like it could be the Lyman/Josh code. Which is why it's confusing.

It says there's new code, but doesn't say to what extent. Again, that's why it's confusing to us casual observers. The message is not clear at all about what's actually coming.

#28 2 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

They reference it up top on the page:

“ Cactus Canyon features expanded game rules, new display art and new sounds all of which are exclusive to Cactus Canyon Remake. All new full-color display artwork, re-imagined within the framework of the original Williams display artwork at four times the resolution.”

Do you specifically want a line that says “The Enhanced Code implements changes that reflect the vision of the original Williams design team”?

I don't really care how they resolve the ambiguity. But they need to.

From the official press release:

"Chicago, October 1, 2021 – Chicago Gaming Company is pleased to announce that Lyman Sheats and Josh Sharpe have been contracted to develop new and enhanced software for Cactus Canyon Remake."

From the official feature matrix:

"Cactus Canyon™ Remake Enhanced Software - Included".

If someone isn't on Pinside going through all the threads, or wasn't at the pinball expo talk paying close attention, how are they supposed to know these refer to two completely different things?

#29 2 years ago
Quoted from paul_8788:

I don't really care how they resolve the ambiguity. But they need to.
From the official press release:
"Chicago, October 1, 2021 – Chicago Gaming Company is pleased to announce that Lyman Sheats and Josh Sharpe have been contracted to develop new and enhanced software for Cactus Canyon Remake."
From the official feature matrix:
"Cactus Canyon™ Remake Enhanced Software - Included".
If someone isn't on Pinside going through all the threads, or wasn't at the pinball expo talk paying close attention, how are they supposed to know these refer to two completely different things?

Exactly. If there's going to be an additional code base, it needs to be clearly differentiated in some way.

Maybe name it the "Gunslinger's Code Update" or some such thing and stick a "coming soon" label on it.

#30 2 years ago
Quoted from paul_8788:

If someone isn't on Pinside going through all the threads, or wasn't at the pinball expo talk paying close attention, how are they supposed to know these refer to two completely different things?

The announcement of the Lyman collaboration was on October 1st. Expecting that anything would be ready for announcing a few weeks later doesn’t make since, especially since the CCr announcement was originally intended for August.

Not sure what the issue is. If the Lyman code is the key factor in someone’s decision to buy CCr why not wait until the package is announced? SEs/SE+ should still be available.

#31 2 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

Maybe name it the "Gunslinger's Code Update" or some such thing and stick a "coming soon" label on it.

But then everyone would want to know what was in the update package and even the owner of the company doesn’t know what that is yet.

#32 2 years ago

Are flippers that upset

#33 2 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

But then everyone would want to know what was in the update package and even the owner of the company doesn’t know what that is.

This may come as a shock but you can actually announce something you don't know the details of. You can give it a name and say "Features TBD" or something. I'm with everyone else. I thought the new code was included. It's not clear AT ALL anywhere online.

#34 2 years ago
Quoted from paul_8788:

I don't really care how they resolve the ambiguity. But they need to.
From the official press release:
"Chicago, October 1, 2021 – Chicago Gaming Company is pleased to announce that Lyman Sheats and Josh Sharpe have been contracted to develop new and enhanced software for Cactus Canyon Remake."
From the official feature matrix:
"Cactus Canyon™ Remake Enhanced Software - Included".
If someone isn't on Pinside going through all the threads, or wasn't at the pinball expo talk paying close attention, how are they supposed to know these refer to two completely different things?

Ok have to admit by that definition it certainly Would define it as included. Enhanced code by Lyman and Josh, enhanced code "included". lol

#35 2 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

The announcement of the Lyman collaboration was on October 1st. Expecting that anything would be ready for announcing a few weeks later doesn’t make since, especially since the CCr announcement was originally intended for August.
Not sure what the issue is. If the Lyman code is the key factor in someone’s decision to buy CCr why not wait until the package is announced? SEs/SE+ should still be available.

I've heard bits and pieces of things, and it would just be helpful to see the full picture. It's confusing because it's unclear. That's all. All I'm asking for is some clarification.

If I'm confused by this, I think it's safe to assume that I am not the only one.

Quoted from jfh:

But then everyone would want to know what was in the update package and even the owner of the company doesn’t know what that is.

It would be helpful to see an actual distinctive label attached to it, instead of referring to both as "the enhanced software". You can still announce a forthcoming feature, update pack, or add-on, or whatever without knowing/releasing all the individual details. Calling it something else would be a big help to alleviating the confusion.

#36 2 years ago
Quoted from paul_8788:

...I thought the "Enhanced" code WAS the Josh/Lyman package which is a reasonable assumption if you haven't been going through the threads...
...Basic communication, not rocket science.

Quite a few responses here indicate that a LOT of people didn’t know this.

Apparently the original code AND enhanced code are entirely separate from the Lyman/Sharpe code.

That’s *not at all confusing* considering the above release which stated the Lyman/Sharpe code is enhanced code!

It shouldn’t be this contradictory, and it could have been handled better. They were excited to make their announcement as soon as possible because they are aware what Lyman’s code means to buyers, so you’d think they’d handle the actual announcement of such code with clear and concise answers.

#37 2 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

Calling it something else would be a big help to alleviating the confusion.

Just call it "DLC" then we can fire up Another complaint thread!!! lol

#38 2 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

The announcement of the Lyman collaboration was on October 1st. Expecting that anything would be ready for announcing a few weeks later doesn’t make since, especially since the CCr announcement was originally intended for August.

Not sure what the issue is. If the Lyman code is the key factor in someone’s decision to buy CCr why not wait until the package is announced? SEs/SE+ should still be available.

Sigh. The issue is, again, that it could be very easy to misconstrue the meaning of "Enhanced software - included" on the feature matrix as CGC has referred to two completely different code packages as the "enhanced" code. I cannot make it any clearer, I have to assume you are just choosing not to see it.

#39 2 years ago
Quoted from EricHadley:

This is dumb. Why the fuck does anyone feel that CGC "owes" you anything. This place is getting stupid. Shut the fuck up and go play pinball.

What he said

#40 2 years ago
Quoted from Davidus56:

What is topper gate?

a new hotel for pinheads

#41 2 years ago

I missed it in all the sw talk. What exactly is toppergate???

#42 2 years ago
Quoted from ForceFlow:

I've heard bits and pieces of things, and it would just be helpful to see the full picture. It's confusing because it's unclear. That's all. All I'm asking for is some clarification.

I certainly agree that the launch announcement could have made a lot of things clearer. It was the worst I have ever seen by far. And I think the wording “enhanced code” in the Lyman/Josh announcement was a poor choice if they were going to use those words in the feature matrix.

But in fairness to CGC, Doug and Ryan have made it *very* clear that the Lyman code was always going to be an optional feature. I’ve never seen anything to indicate this code was going to be in the base or available for free.

#43 2 years ago
Quoted from jfh:

But in fairness to CGC, Doug and Ryan have made it *very* clear that the Lyman code was always going to be an optional feature. I've heard bits and pieces of things, and it would just be helpful to see the full picture.

Where?

#44 2 years ago
Quoted from John_I:

I missed it in all the sw talk. What exactly is toppergate???

At first, only the LE was going to include the topper. CGC just announced they added a new edition called the "Special Edition Plus" which will also now include the topper for the same price as the LE (but without some of the other LE features).

Apparently, a few people are upset by this and that the topper is no longer going to be as exclusive of an item.

-1
#45 2 years ago

Man why all the down votes (10)? I'm asking a valid question to LE buyers from the previous CCr page. Please note I'm an LE buyer and my vote was "I'm good...I feel lucky".

11
#46 2 years ago
Quoted from Yesh23:

Man why all the down votes

Maybe people didn't think there should be yet another thread that will turn into bashing the company or the game.

#47 2 years ago

You forgot the option:

“I’m so upset with what GGC did I would like the option to cancel my LE order at no cost so that one of the hundreds of other people who missed out on an LE can order one and be really grateful for the opportunity to do so.”

Oh, wait, I think you can already cancel your order with no penalty…..

#48 2 years ago
Quoted from scruffypinball:

Are flippers that upset

Yes.

#49 2 years ago
Quoted from LTG:

Maybe people didn't think there should be yet another thread that will turn into bashing the company or the game.

I can understand that. It wasn’t intent to bash the company but to create a poll for LE buyers, since it couldn’t be added to any of the other threads

#50 2 years ago

If they included a ship, how would you feel about the deelio?

9516BE7A-1507-4CEE-9E3A-351C460497A7 (resized).jpeg9516BE7A-1507-4CEE-9E3A-351C460497A7 (resized).jpeg
Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
From: $ 17.99
There are 74 posts in this topic. You are on page 1 of 2.

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/ccr-cactus-canyon-remake-le-buyers-toppergate-with-poll?hl=explosiveegg and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.