Boerne, TX
Love how the $9,250 has now become “fair”
MBLE was $8k
So the idea that they didn’t charge over $10k for a 1,250 run is a win?
I’m good with it. Just find it funny and welcome to the new pin world
(Topic ID: 298998)
Linked Games
Cactus Canyon (Remake - LE)
Chicago Gaming Co., 2021-
Cactus Canyon (Remake - Special Edition Plus)
Chicago Gaming Co., 2021
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Cactus Canyon (Remake - Special Edition)
Chicago Gaming Co., 2021
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Quoted from gprotein:Fair point Ice, but are you aware that the new stern prem will be almost 9k with no topper, art blade or armor upgrade? Pin inflation, it’s what it’s I guess.
No doubt. It’s like cars and housing. Get what you can while you can. 
This is a better value than anything Stern which I also love.
I’d never buy a game from PPS though
Quoted from jfh:It’s a “win” in that with the current market they could have easily charged more. Look at what Stern has done with topper pricing. Using that as a base the difference between the SE and LE an interactive topper with special game modes alone “justifies” the $1250 difference. And $8k seems to be the new base for a game. Is that crazy? Probably. But that’s where we are today.
Crazy is the operative word.
I’m getting an LE because I love the theme. I would have paid $10k because of CGC quality etc
The toppers are awesome!
Quoted from indypinhead:Why won't you buy through Planetary? I've never had a problem. I bought my MMr & MBr through them.
Not a fan of Rick. That’s it. I’m sure they will sell their allotment. Not to me though
He has 50 to blow through on each game per his contract. That leaves 1,200.
If it was the last game available in his warehouse I wouldn’t do it
Quoted from 68Pontinut:I have bought all my games through them as well. Excellent experience every time!
Everybody has different experiences. I didn’t say Sara
Doesn’t matter because there are plenty of options thankfully
If you think Rick is beloved then not sure what to say about that . It’s universal
Quoted from NightTrain:Keep in mind that $8000 in 2018 is $8740 today.
So they’re really only charging another $510. The way the pinball market is right now, I’d say that is pretty fair.
Justify the price of a non licensed REMAKE any way you want.
I’m in. They are trying to get every dime they think they can get from us just like every other pin maker.
It’s not like they are doing us some kind of favor by being “fair”. If they thought they could get $10k they would
Given the opportunity, AP jacked up the LE run from 300 to 500
Quoted from NightTrain:I totally hear ya man. We may be rethinking the whole “fair” aspect after we see the Lyman code cost.
If there is one thing in the pinball industry I’d be willing to pay extra for, and that’s why CGC hired him, is future Lyman code!
We start at $9250. It’s just the beginning
If you buy this base game how do you not get the Lyman code update? We will
Quoted from dts:I don't think anyone said anything about Rick being beloved, or anyone else for that matter, well maybe Sara. The point is that many have had good experiences with PPS. They hold the rights to Williams games, as you know, and are a big part of why we can even get remakes.
Who is a big part of why we can’t get remakes?
I’m saying I avoid PPS because of Rick and I’m not alone. Not a people person
I’d never buy a game from him and CGC has plenty of options so that’s a good thing.
Rick wins as licensor anyhow. Nobody likes him
Quoted from LTG:I do.
LTG : )
You like everybody Lloyd.
And good for you.
If you get a ton of upvotes then maybe I’m wrong
Quoted from jfh:Lyman is what pushed the needle from “maybe an SE sometime” to “want an LE now”. Lyman did incredible work on Batman and Elvira and have no doubt he’ll do the same with Cactus Canyon.
“In Lyman we trust”
We all know he’s going to make this game the best it can be.
Don’t forget TWD and AC/DC
Quoted from dts:I also like him. I'm buying pinball machines, not voting for class president.
We have options to buy from. That’s a good thing
Lyman and any pin. That’s a winner!!!
Quoted from jfh:True, but I only have Batman and Elvira. And I only bought those LEs early because Lyman was in charge of code. Having deep code developed by a world class pinball player is awesome and is a game feature on its own.
I can’t believe Stern let him go. They should have paid him whatever he wanted.
TWD is a masterpiece of Lyman perfection
He’s worth the price of admission alone
Maybe Lyman will do another MB code update?
Quoted from starfighter:Oh... you gotta admit that was funny.
Quoted from starfighter:Oh... you gotta admit that was funny.
I said it was hilarious. 
Quoted from dts:The real question here is would you like Rick if he were a Texan? The strong silent type who doesn't peddle his machines.
I’d probably like him if he was friends with Mueller 
It’s not just me. Just saying. He has a horrible reputation of not being a likable guy
Industry guys love him
Doesn’t matter. I’m getting a game that I’ve been waiting for and it looks great. What are you waiting for DTS?
Quoted from Yelobird:Oddly I was thinking something similar at Expo. The Magic of Lyman came from all directions in a feeding (buying frenzie). His departure of Stern lit the fuse on a EHOH40 to net close to 5 million in sales and the Lyman association to CC more then lit that rocket for many. Shows what his presence and talent can do for a company and those that follow his talent.
If Lyman, and Elwin too for that matter, don’t understand their worth to their employers then they ought to get themselves an agent and get paid properly!
In a meritocracy, after all Stern is raining money right now, I hope Elwin is using his leverage to grab some of that $$$ he deserves.
Hoping Lyman did that with CGC.
The Michael Jordan and Tim Duncan of pinball!
Quoted from nicoy3k:Seeing as there is only one pinball company in the world capable of getting more than one new game out a year I’m not sure how much leverage these guys really have. If I was Elwin I’d be pretty happy about being able to design pinball machines for a living.
If I were Stern I’d be REAL happy having Elwin designing games for them.
I’m sure Elwin appreciates the opportunity but with pinball demand these days you gotta get paid properly for your talents or take em elsewhere. 1 game a yr or not I’d pay Elwin whatever he wanted if I was AP, CGC or JJP.
Quoted from pickleric:Yeah its bonkers, if you think pinball prices are nuts, watches and collector cars are next level. People are paying thousands of dollars get access to watch buying groups on Facebook. Its ridiculous.
How about houses and cars for that matter?
I just sold a rental house for double what I paid for it in 2017.
The world is awash in $$$ with stimulus and Covid savings and people are looking to spend. Pent up demand
Quoted from Pinballer67:Joe did his best and he's a really good guy, I've dealt with him extensively over the years.
Certainly a no-win situation for him!
I agree. Joe is a great guy. What else can you do?
Just wait and buy one later. Plenty will pop up
Quoted from teekee:We will see tons of CC LEs for sale in about 4-6 months. Its a dog of a game compared to today's games. Everyone wants a CCLE. Lol, what a mistake!
Everybody wants every game these days Teek, come on didn’t you know that? Doesn’t matter how good it is
Quoted from sepins:Known teekee for a long time. He would love to get His hands on one to flip!
Teekee is just dejected all these guys have taken away his "flipper profit" the last several years. Stern woke up after that Metallica LE debacle.
Quoted from ultimategameroom:I nominate them for 2021 Pinside D bag of the year.
Scalper scum
A holes like this hurt the hobby. Pitiful
I’d say it’s already baked in that CGC is going to offer the topper as an upgrade to the SE.
They aren’t announcing it yet before they collect all the LE money. When they do, because it’s always all about the money, they will offer it up.
Why is it different this time? Because the pin market is in huge demand and they will justify it that way. All the poor people that couldn’t get an LE.
The end result? Bastardizing the “”LE market”
PPS says “everyone hopes they offer the topper to SE buyers….” Really?
Maybe every SE buyer
It’s a gorgeous game, hard to beat Monster Bash in that category but CGC just does a phenomenal job of bringing the wow factor
Quoted from CosmoJoe:Apparently PPS just sent out deposit requests, so be on the lookout if you were on their "LE buyers" list!
In their email:
Q: How do I purchase 5 LE's?
A: We have a hard limit of 1 LE game per retail customer.
LOL
That’s funny. PPS got 1/4 th of the LEs to sell here.
No need to sell more than 1 to anybody with this kind of demand. That’s a good thing
Quoted from indypinhead:Not surprising at all....Rick Bartlett owns the licensing to Williams.
A well known fact, and he will make sure you know it!
Congrats on your LE
Quoted from bigd1979:Guess will see what happens... it is advertised as this tho...
[quoted image]
I hear you and of course they should stick to the original promise and CGC tradition here that really helps set the LE apart. Make a different topper for the SE.
No Rick, everyone does NOT want to see CGC go back on their promise, which you would never care about, but i'm sure you are lobbying hard so you can sell more SE's and line your pockets.
Don't do it Doug! Have a little INTEGRITY and don't do what other companies might do when they see $$$ signs
Quoted from northvibe:I’d be okay with this ONLY if they then remade toppers for MBr and afmr for sale.
Great point.
Quoted from NightTrain:So when AP did it, you were good with it? But not when CGC does it?
I’m guessing you have a CCrLE on order and don’t have a LOV Deluxe on order?
Not trying to start shit, but why the different stance? Just curious.
I really wasn't for it with AP either. I just had sympathy for them, they are nice guys, and with all of their struggles to date it was just about going from 300 to 500 games, still considered "limited" but i get why people who bought one with the understanding only 300 would be made would be pissed. Not a great look and also a lack of integrity on their part but i kind of get why they did it. They had ZERO precedent with offering an LE of anything and simply F ed up and fixed it right away.
I've hammered JJP for what they have done over the years with Woz.
I would have ZERO sympathy for PPS trying to make an extra buck as they lobby for toppers for all. A HUGE difference for me and in this case it's the MAIN FEATURE that separates the LE from the SE and something CGC has stuck to for years.
If you want to offer the topper to all games then don't even do an LE.
I actually have BOTH games on order and no i don't like that trend at all.
Quoted from Lamberger:There are screen shots everywhere stating LE topper exclusively.. just like AFM and MB, just how they worded it to sell the game. If I was this company, I wouldn't mess with it.
They obviously originally intended it to be this way with the “Wild West topper, limited edition exclusively” language.
Like Doug said, they could have shipped the game a YEAR ago and wanted to ultimately make it the best game it could be.
In hindsight, they should have decided this issue BEFORE they announced it last week. And I know they wish they would have now
It had to have become a BIG issue AFTER the reveal.
Maybe a bunch of people complained that since the topper is integrated into the game play the SE should have it too?
After all, CGC toppers are a HUGE highlight of their games. Really amazing.
At this point, there is no chance of making everybody happy so just let it rip.
As an LE guy, I’d have to say, if the topper is part of the game then maybe the SE guys should have some opportunity to experience it somehow. Maybe they can differentiate it a little.
Then again, he says they care about protecting resale value and it will def hurt the LE to make what has been “exclusive” to their LEs, non-exclusive.
1,250 is not really “limited” imho anyhow despite the demand
I’m really more interested in seeing what Lyman has cooked up!
Quoted from cooked71:Really? Source?
BigD keeps posting it Cookie. What’s not clear about that?
Quoted from cooked71:Did he? Missed that.
Post #2460 the last one
Quoted from RobertWinter:Where does it say "exclusively" since your have that in quotes? I believe it said "only".
Personally I don't care either way. I'm not buying either version. I've already owned CC/CCC multiple times and won't be buying it again.
I'm happy this game is finally out and looks great! Kudos to CGC. Now bring on TOM!
What do you think “limited edition ONLY” means. “Only” means what it says I think. Lol
19091333-B87D-44CC-9E70-21FEB1FD15E2 (resized).pngQuoted from Doug_Duba:Had CCr-LEs sold at a similar rate to MB and AFM, most people who cared would have gotten an LE and offering the topper would not even be considered. We wanted to get a feel for demand before deciding if we were going to sell the topper and indicated so at the launch. This was discussed earlier in this thread.
The CCr webpage provides details on the features of both the CCr-LE and CCr-SE. “LE Only” indicates the topper only applies to the CCr-LE listed on that page.
If you sincerely believe the “LE only” text on our webpage was written to be intentionally deceptive, then turn and run. Your dealer will refund your money. We are unfortunately in an industry where dealing with companies and people that lack integrity can be extremely costly. Maybe I shouldn’t have consulted with Robert Muller on our webpage copy, I’m also rethinking my decision to let him manage all of my retirement savings.
I fully understand a number of LE buyers do not want us to sell toppers. Considering doing so is not a new development.
Who’s saying “LE only” is intentionally deceptive. It’s how you described the same thing on previous games it appears.
I’m sure many people like myself didn’t watch the reveal and your commentary at the event
No need to get defensive. If you said then that toppers sold separately to SE buyers was still under consideration then so be it.
But it’s you guys that have created the confusion. I’m still dazed and confused
IF you offer the topper for the SE I’m sure the additional demand will be significant. Just do it
Quoted from vintage4life:This is the first time I have ever bought an LE. I bought it because the topper was so awesome. I don’t even remember the other stuff that’s “only” on the LE. Guess it doesn’t matter because only means everything I guess. Haha. What a joke. Going to tell my girlfriend tonight that I have “only” been sleeping with her. Figure she will understand.
Now that’s funny right there!
Quoted from cooked71:Telling her you are "only" sleeping with her doesnt mean you wont sleep with someone else later.
But at the same time? Quit trying to rile up the LE guys Cookie.
Bottom line, I think Doug will figure something out that makes everyone somewhat satisfied. No need to make things personal when CGC clearly has the passion to make these great games and balance it out the best way possible.
I mean it’s kind of a good problem to have when the demand is so massive for such a great game AND we all know what the LYMAN factor means.
I totally get the argument that the topper being integrated into the game should be thus available for the SE in some form
Quoted from P1nhead:I wish our Mando LE had the foil decals... looks amazing on new GZ and love em on imdn LE.
The glitter playfield would be cool if the artwork reliably and consistently stayed put.
Glad CGC has a great supplier for playfields. I am excited for other asthetic parts of the game, less so the sculpts but the apron... so much about this game has us hyped up! I sometimes forget we have Halloween and Ultraman coming - that's the power of CCr for us - could only be topped by Indiana Jones remake with an interactive knock em sock em Dr Jones and Nazi topper!!
Yeah it’s all good. Hard to complain about anything after I just unboxed my Godzilla LE and yes those foil decals are purty!
Quoted from Tommy-dog:I will cancel my order with a new Stern game and switch it to a CCr SE if I can get a topper from Chicago Gaming as an option down the road.
Which Stern game?
Quoted from Tommy-dog:Godzilla
Wow ok. That’s giving up a great one.
I could just stand there and look at my MBrLE but I wouldn’t give up Godzilla
CCr looks great too. Hard to go wrong
Quoted from Tommy-dog:LE's are numbered and limited to 1250. My Addams Family gold is a numbered limited edition and the topper is the same as the regular Addams Family games.
Let’s not compare those toppers, no one bought TAF gold for the topper and there were 500 of those?
Quoted from J85M:I imagine this would be appreciated by a lot of buyers who are locked out from dealing with you guys due to their locations.
Can you not simply offer this to anyone who’s able to prove they have purchased a CCR? Surely it would benefit yourselves at PPS with a much larger pool of consumers potentially keen on adding a back glass to their CCR?
It’s typical. What a crock of shit! Lol. You might as well just end the charade and have one distributor for CGC since PPS controls the licensing anyhow and just stuck a fork in every other distributor eyes.
Quoted from pinballinreno:I dont think this is the case.
Subdealers would infer official distributors of CCr and not any NIB flippers.
They listed the “sub dealers”. That does NOT include all of the official distributors. Not by a long shot
After the goodwill gesture by CGC for the SE buyers, which does put substantially more $$ in their pockets, PPS comes along, with its exclusive license, and creates an incentive, that only they can offer, to buy from them over the other dealers.
It’s certainly what it looks like
Quoted from pinballinreno:I dont think read it that way.
Subdealers would be the distibutors and PPS and some others were added SEPARATELY for clarity:
"These loyalty program benefits will also apply to customers who purchase from Nevada Pinball ([email protected], Starcade Amusements ([email protected]), and Don's Custom Service ([email protected]), and Planetary Pinball ([email protected])."
It’s called the “PPS game loyalty program” which includes those specific “sub dealers”
It doesn’t say “PPS game loyalty program” which includes every other distributor as well.
Clearly, they want to capture all the SE sales that will now be generated as a result of the topper with their licensing advantage
How is it viewed any other way?
I don’t really care about it but I would think some non PPS buyers are gonna pitch a fit
Quoted from jfh:Let’s give PPS the benefit of the doubt and hope this announcement today was just poorly worded.
If it wasn’t, I can’t imagine CGC’s other distributors will be happy with this either.
Poorly worded? They want to capture all the SE sales now the topper is available and are using a competitive advantage.
The timing of the announcement was clearly planned after Doug made his announcement
Quoted from pinballinreno:No, it's not written that way.
they are not listed as subdealers or it would be stated.
they are "other" and noted separatly because they are not subdealers.
So you are saying the loyalty program applies to ANY buyer of a CCR game, from any licensed distributor?
Because that would be the only right answer
Well there you go. Answer clarified above
Ok now I’m off to play my Godzilla LE and have a few beers! Get busy Lyman
Quoted from jfh:Maybe.
But the CC mirrored backglasses disappeared from the CPR site which leads me to believe maybe PPS wanted to sell mirrored backglasses exclusively and that decision was obviously made before Doug’s announcement.
What’s worse though with this loyalty program is that apparently unless you buy a CCr directly from PPS you’re relegated to third-class status on the interest list for future CGC remakes.
I’m really hoping we get some clarification on this.
PPS had no choice but to include everybody now. Especially right after the poorly planned topper BS!
A “loyalty program” is naturally designed to have you buy again from them by creating an incentive to do so
Hopefully they have their shit straight now
Quoted from Doug_Duba:I appreciate Rick’s responsiveness in opening mirrored backglass sales to all CCr customers.
We are having discussions with all dealers regarding a loyalty program that would provide existing remake customers an opportunity order future games before they are offered to the general public.
I’m happy you guys realized the obvious conflict issue with PPS as your licensor partner and distributor at the same time
The loyalty is and should be with CGC the manufacturer and it’s good to see ALL CGC buyers appreciated, not just PPS
Quoted from indypinhead:Of course, it's a total cash-grab.
I went to purchase the mirrored backglass from CPR the same day they pulled it from their website. The only expanation I received was that they are no longer allowed to sell the backglass.
Total BS...and totally a cash grab.
Who is it that controls who can sell what?
Rick pulls back glass from CPR right before this fiasco hits. $$$
Now let’s all thank Rick for “making it available” for everybody. If I’m not mistaken wasn’t it already available for EVERYBODY to purchase from CPR?
I need help removing the pineapple plunged up my arse! Ok not really but I thought that was very funny! Damn pineapple would hurt really bad
Quoted from cooked71:OMFG you LE buyers.
In Australia this means you got a $3000 topper (plus a bunch of very cool LE only extras) for literally doing nothing
LE price aud$16990
SE price aud$13990
SE+ will have to be aud$16990
So you got the $3000 topper plus the LE extras and the inherent LE flip margin ($5k??) for literally doing nothing but putting your name on a list and you’re all still whining and demanding you get even more extras like free backglasses and Lyman code!!!! If there ever was a shark jump moment in this hobby this is it.
I don’t know wtf is going on in Australia anyhow Cookie!
Let me be the Dick in the room once again.
As a “collector” that spends a lot of $$ on high end games that I like we don’t like to see the rarity factor (1250 is now rare?) or the “collectibility” diminished in what people are buying. You all know I’m right.
The SE buyers or ones that missed out up front will say F you, I want a topper too. Everybody gets a trophy!
You gotta pick your lane, and you can’t have it both ways.
Why do companies offer up and then consumers buy an “LE”?
Because it’s limited! And you guys can say whatever you want but YOU ALL want these high priced games to maintain their value at a minimum.
I’m sure, after the fact, CGC and PPS realized they left a shit ton of $$$ on the table when 1,250 went flying out the door.
Well hey, we are gonna be seen as the good guys by keeping LE prices lower than Stern and when the actual bubble does pop we will already be priced much better
When you take “collectors” and high end buyers for granted, that is how you blow up the money train that is barreling down the tracks.
To say to the LE buyers, “if you don’t like what we did then just get a refund” is F ing crazy mentality. There will come a day…
Bottom line, it is what it is and good for the SE buyers that they get the trophy too. It’s incorporated in the game and I get it BUT the topper is the signature calling card for CGC, period, hard stop!
Next time, either have ONE version of a game OR price the LEs to a point where you sell the numbers and maintain the “collectibility” factor
Quoted from cooked71:But you LE buyers are still getting the best version of the game that only 1250 are lucky enough to have. You’re getting more than what you get on a Stern LE AND it’s the same price as the Premium.
Let’s not try and play the word dance here Cookie. We aren’t stupid!
We ALL know, based on PAST PRECEDENT that the CGC topper is an LE feature. Period. Can’t argue it.
Now you want to change it. That’s fine, it’s your game CGC or PPS
I’ve bought games for the last 10 yrs and I’ll probably be buying them for the next 10
I don’t need to feel like you are doing me a F ing favor by getting the LE and topper with it so take it or leave it.
At the end of the day, it’s CACTUS CANYON remake
The ONLY reason I bought in and stay in is because I want to see what my man Lyman does with it. Pure genius.
I’m sure someone will unload their LE to you Cook, keep hammering away
Quoted from dts:An alternative SE topper might have been a good solution, perhaps static with lights. Frankly, just sticking with the original agreement on this game would have been best. Change the formula before the next release if needed, with advance notice. This same thing did happen with MMrRE and surprisingly it made no difference in value. I think the same probably isn’t true here though.
MMRe never had a topper. That’s the difference.
But yes, something different. They F Ed up
Quoted from CoolCatPinball:Nope, these LE guys are loaded and obsessive. They will pay whatever the market dictates or more for a true LE. "SE+ with all the upgrades included? Nonsense, that's a peasants pinball, I must have the LE"
You know I'm right.
That’s exactly right. That’s why Stern just did an Elvira 40th for $25k
“Collectibility” matters to the “loaded and obsessive guys”. Sorry
Want to play the class warfare game? I’m not crying for anybody that can spend $8k plus on a pinball game so you can drop that poor man nonsense
Quoted from srmonte:At least Doug from CGC emailed me and told me my place in line still has value if I wanted to flip my spot.
Wow just wow
They just don’t get it
Quoted from Pinbaltz:No LEs have been delivered, and everyone has been offered a refund on their deposit.
If you don’t like it, ask for a refund! Please!
It frees up LEs for the rest of us that just want the best version of the pin and don’t care about artificial scarcity.
Just buy the SE then if you don’t care. Phony argument isn’t it?
Quoted from CoolCatPinball:No need to apologize, I know it's true. And I never played a class warfare card. Anyone able to spend the money we do on toys should consider themselves fortunate. You are proving the simple fact I was trying to make. The LE is limited to 1250 machines and a true enthusiast or collector who wants one will do what they need to do to acquire one. They don't want a look alike or a lesser version. Therefore, my point was, the LE guys really shouldn't be worried about diminished value or exclusively. Their LE is still 1 of 1250, regardless of other models released by CGC.
Let me give the you the Tommy Boy analogy.
“Look Mr. Buyer, you can mark GUARANTEED on the box of your brake pads but at the end of the day all you still really have is a guaranteed box of shit, our brake pads are better”
1 of 1,250 means jack shit. The topper is CGC and they know it.
Cactus Canyon is an average game that Lyman is going to make special. The topper is the differentiator
They F Ed up and should have priced them higher, the LEs. Trying to make up the loss by selling the toppers? The 1,250 is meaningless but that’s what they now have to live with.
And finally, you aren’t Stern. Let’s see how the non remakes compete in the future
Quoted from jchristian11:I don’t get why expecting a company to keep their word is a problem. The money isn’t remotely an issue.
No point in arguing with this guy. Trust me.
Quoted from flynnibus:Difference is afmle were already sold and committed- these buyers are not locked in like afmle owners are
Absolute total nonsense per usual
Quoted from Mando:I specifically recall them saying they had not yet decided if they would sell the topper separate or not, and their marketing material said it was "included" with the LE not "Exclusive"...now it did say LE Only which could mean its only included with the LE(so this would mean maybe you can buy it separate) or you could take that to mean Exclusive.
I agree they should have figured this out from the start, but correct me if I am wrong on the above. My friend was over today and I told him the same thing before this news hit that I thought they might sell it. I didn't expect another edition , but safe difference really topper is 1250 I guess.
Wrong. It’s says, once again, “limited edition only”. That ship has sailed and we know why they waffled
Quoted from cooked71:Not working Ice. Except for the USD$15k offer I’ve had.
I think maybe the sledgehammer approach of telling all you LE buyers you’re a bunch of ungrateful entitled whiners is the wrong strategy.
New tactic: All you LE buyers are so freaking awesome. So clever how you got on an LE list and/or gave your Distro whatever favors they asked for. You guys are just amazing and I can’t even imagine how good your games rooms will look now with those beautiful CCR LE’s setup. Since you’re all so special surely you can find it in your heart to give me your LE spot. Your game room won’t miss it. In fact this one extra LE is just going to make all your other Le’s look like basic Premiums. Surely you don’t want that?
Lol. That’s a MUCH better approach!
If anyone had any patience they would be able to pick these games up later, probably cheaper but you don’t and neither do I
Aren’t you limited to what lands over there with Wayne?
Isn’t is cost prohibitive to ship from a seller in the US?
Quoted from CoolCatPinball:Don't forget, this particular LE is now tarnished and devalued due to the SE+ debacle. Better unload it now while it still holds a bit of worth.
I like your cat!
Quoted from CoolCatPinball:Lol, thank you. And no hard feelings man. I just think in a year or more the LEs will still be as good as gold regardless of what CGC does. You've been around long enough to know this market.
We are all just trying to have a little fun in this hobby we all enjoy and love in our own ways that make us happy
Quoted from Yelobird:Guess I'm not fully understanding the complaint or need to fluff the LE buyers further? If anything you should feel bad for the SE buyers as they had to pay the Same price of an LE only they got an SE?? Do you think a future sale SE vs LE will be the same value??
SE buyers don’t have to buy the topper if they don’t like it Yelo?
Why would anyone feel bad about that choice they have?
Would you rather just increase the price on current LE buyers to make it more equal for them?
You are missing the entire point
Quoted from EricHadley:First world problems. Open a beer and shut the fuck up and go play pinball.
We are doing BOTH Wacky crunchy peanut butter I’m selling my whole collection crazy bastard
This is how it works. We don’t stfu and grab ankles while the pineapple is inserted
Quoted from cooked71:Had to laugh….just ducked down to the local grocers to grab dinner and found these for sale out the front.
I grabbed all they had for everyone on here that feels like getting they’re getting the CGC pineapple treatment.
[quoted image]
Look at those things! Gonna hurt much worse coming out.
Where is the dude that floated that analogy?
Quoted from cooked71:they look extra spiky don’t they. I think he’s also in Sydney. Should look him up and give him the address.
Ahhhh yes. That’s right. Another Aussie!
Can’t blame him. You guys have been living with inserted pineapples lately.
Quoted from aeneas:And for those few whose argument is that they only have a topper and no one else may enjoy it - don't be so greedy. If your enjoyment of pinball is purely that you have something that others don't have : please search another hobby.
“Greedy”? Are you referring to CGC?
They sell LEs to create the FOMO. That’s how it works.
The “collectible” and “limited” aspect of these pins is exactly WHY pinball is blowing up, along with making great games of course.
Why not just have ALL the “greedy” components of the LE, armor, badge, train etc just be available too for everybody.
Because then CGC couldn’t sell them out now could they?
The entire concept of a “limited edition” is having something that not everyone else has! It happens in EVERY hobby
Quoted from aeneas:No I meant the LE buyers that complain an SE+ won't make their game exclusive enough anymore.
Oh I thought you were referring to the greedy amount of money CGC and PPS were making on this move.
Like I said, why stop at the topper. Let’s just strip out all of the “greedy” stuff in there!
What a ridiculous argument. See my post above
Quoted from jfh:Since you are agreeing with most of my points, it doesn’t seem like we disagree.
Few were excited by the original code. Agreed.
CCC was awesome. Agreed.
ZThe idea of a remake with CCC energized interest in CCr. Agreed.
The “finished” code isn’t complex/deep. Agreed. (No personal experience yet, but likely).
CGC is improving the game. Agreed.
Not sure why you’re telling me to play the game. I still remember playing it trying to decide if I was going to buy it new in early 1999 and played it and CCC quite a bit at shows over the years. And I don’t play digital pinball.
//<![CDATA[
window.__mirage2 = {petok:"48d26b90d1b8198b605da171956a7772c40cd439-1636338253-1800"};
//]]>The original never really was all that popular for a long time because so few had a chance to play it (rarity) and those I saw play (including me) were generally disappointed with the (unfinished) code which was even more shallow than typical for its era.
If CCr is a big hit it will be because of the improvements by CGC. If it was being released only emulating the original code there wouldn’t be anywhere near the interest we’ve seen. I wouldn’t be in. Heck, I’ll bet some are buying it now just so they can see what Lyman might do. I can understand that because I essentially did the same buying Batman and Elvira LEs. But no one is buying this remake because the original game in 1999 was awesome.
If you want to continue this, let’s take it to PM. Maybe I just don’t understand the point you are trying to make.
Put me in the camp of the MAIN reason I’m buying this game is to see what Lyman will do with it. He’s worth the price of admission.
And of course for the pineapple effect!
I like the caring and passion of Doug Duba! And the fact that you owned the mistakes made. That's all you can do and it ain't easy.
And i love the commitment to try and keep the "flippers" to a minimum. And the fact that Doug was smart enough to hire Lyman, or Josh or both.
In hindsight, if i really wanted an "LE", i'd just wait it out, have a little patience and let the market speak for itself. 1,250 is still a ton of games. If people really don't care? Then the SE+ is sitting right there for you.
"In Lyman we trust"!
Oh, and 1,000%, do a "Collector's Edition" in the future. Take advantage of dummies like myself!
Quoted from Doug_Duba:It’s not a matter of smarts, it’s just profound luck. I’m extremely fortunate have the opportunity to work with these guys and other exceptional people including, in the engineering team, Sam Zehr (there would be no remakes without Sam), Sean Wilson, and Dave Oermann. There are plenty of other great people that also helped make this all possible.
No doubt, it takes a great team of people with excellent chemistry to make great games. A lot of unnamed stars behind the scenes.
“This LE game could have easily been 12500 but Doug is doing his best to provide value and keep pinball alive for the masses.”
The “masses” don’t seem to need the help right now Billy, buying up everything in sight for now!
But I’d play the long game too
It will be interesting to see what a “non remake” is priced at with different margins
Quoted from Tommy-dog:Agreed. The topper should be like $599 or so. The LE should NOT be the same price as a SE+. Any LE customer who is not happy on what they are already getting for $9250 should just ask for a refund on their deposit so their spot can be given to someone else.
LOL 
Quoted from Tommy-dog:Those who are LOL'n are those people who are already locked in on getting a LE.
Topper for the SE not good enough either? They set the price, that’s it. Just like the decision to add the topper. Don’t be “greedy”.
Choose option A or B
Quoted from Doug_Duba:Screen printing and silk screening are just different names for the same thing. In this process each layer of ink is put down separately by pushing ink through a silkscreen onto whatever media you are printing on.
Typically screen printing utilizes 4-color process (aka CMYK) which utilizes cyan, magenta, yellow and black ink to create the appearance of a limited gamut of colors. Playfields typically screened CMYK utilize six silk screens (white, C, M, Y, K and opaque black). Solvent based inks are used when silk screening playfields.
We have screen printed all remakes utilizing spot colors as was done for the original games. Utilizing spot colors provides a much wider color gamut. Instead of colors being represented by a mix of C, M, Y or K dots, the color you are seeing is achieved by mixing each ink to the specific color desired. Another upside to spot colors is a richer appearance as the solid colors tend to fully flood an area instead of appearing as small dots. The downside of spot colors is efficiency. Our previous remakes have required 12 to 14 screening operations. Each operation needs to be near perfectly registered to the previous layer of silk screen ink.
The other downside of silk screening playfields is the skill level required.
I believe the other playfield manufacturers are digitally printing playfields and sometimes digitally printing and then adding a single screen printed spot color. Digital printing equipment puts down all four colors (CMYK) in a single pass. Digital inks are UV cured which mean they dry instantly. Most digital printers are 4-color process. Registration between the colors is never an issue and loading a digital press requires almost no skill.
I believe all playfield manufacturers are using urethane clear coats. Some are using automotive grade urethanes which are widely available and less expensive. We still use the same supplier and material as Williams/Bally did. This product was initially developed to coat the heads of wooden golf clubs by a chemist named Dale Bodiker. He found a way to formulate a urethane hard coat that would remain flexible over time. We have looked for another product with similar characteristics but have been unable to find anything that remains flexible.
Urethane is extremely sensitive to certain contaminants. UV inks are typically produced by the manufacturer of the printing equipment. I have looked into digital printing equipment but have been unable to find digital inks specifically formulated for use with urethane. That doesn’t mean they don’t exist. We purchase solvent based inks mixed to our specifications which include purity level requirements.
Dougie Duba! Very nice
Quoted from cooked71:Yo cowboys and cowgirls…..managed to get in on our distro’s CCR LE allocation at the last minute. Deposit paid!!!!
Better oil up the pineapples and sign up to the class action lawsuit…..got to stop these toppers being handed out like confetti to every schmuck SE buyer. I HAD TO WORK HARD FOR THIS LE SLOT!!!
How bad do you feel now Cookie for whining like a little biatch! Lol
Bring on the pineapples baby!
Quoted from underlord:Got my LE with just a banana. Large one. You pineapple guys are committed to this title, that’s for sure.
A smooth banana gets you no credit Rick.
You take a pineapple, spikes in the wrong way, and you deserve whatever rewards you get.
Either way you are grabbing ankles but the “pineapple”? Well it’s just on a whole different level.
Cooked already showed himself picking up pineapple at the market. He probably had to slam one of those to get on the final cut list !
Quoted from jfh:If someone at Chicago Gaming has a wicked sense of humor, CCr will come with a manufacturer’s coupon for a discount on Dole pineapple.
Lyman better come with an Easter egg pineapple mode! Life’s too short
Quoted from cooked71:Bought a few of those in preperation Ice - they were extra spikey ones - got me over the line.
I'm sending some over for you - im sure you owe a few pineapple's to your distro.
I’ve already got a few lodged up my arse from Deep Pineapple. That should have been the company name. At least we get a game here for our efforts.
Bobby Mueller is about to get the real pineapple delivery!
Quoted from cooked71:Actual footage of me preparing for my LE spot…..
[quoted image]
Lol. Love it
Quoted from cooked71:Haven’t had any time on Ccc. Is it new code from the ground up or just and extension of the existing code?
Just cuddle up on your pineapples for now Cookie and don’t worry about code.
2 weeks later
Quoted from CoolCatPinball:I would never put one on ANY machine unless it was an old classic with Playfield wear that I wanted to prevent from getting worse. Like others said, they change the feel of the play, and eventually they wear out and look awful. I feel they're a waste of time and money on modern machines.
Right on the money. Total waste on modern pins.
2 weeks later
Quoted from jfh:Lol. No. The only revisionist talk is coming from you.
You’re trying to convince people the game isn’t worth having because of your opinion of the original game. You don’t allow for the possibility that the remake may offer a better experience with Cactus Canyon than yours. You obviously have a reason for doing so but this isn’t the right place for it.
No point arguing with this guy. He knows everything didn’t you know that ?
The “Lyman factor”? Well that doesn’t fit his narrative now does it. It’s TBD? No shit. That’s the whole point!
And we have ALL seen what Lyman can do with any game. He’s worth the price of admission alone
2 months later
Quoted from flynnibus:to suggest they don't have manufacturing ability - after they have already announced (and missed) deadlines and trying to say they haven't 'allocated funds' to build it... and 'caught with their pants down' as if such a need and it's timing is a suprise.. months after they were already supposed to be shipping is trying to suggest either epic ineptitude or deception. It's not either.
3 weeks later
Quoted from jfh:Well, PPS owns the rights so they can pretty much do what they want.
I think how Planetary initially handled the mirrored backglass was terrible but give them a bit of credit to allow the backglasses to be sold to any confirmed CCr buyer.
If they had made the “exclusive to PPS” announcement earlier it might have made a difference and I may have bought from them if my local distributor didn’t have LEs left. But it was pretty crummy to make the announcement after most of the LEs were gone. Horseshit is probably an appropriate term.
Just because they can do what they want doesn’t make it right.
I wouldn’t buy a game from them direct no matter what anyhow.
I know they make the licensing $$ regardless but CGC shouldn’t allow this “horseshit” to happen in the first place
Don’t really care about the PPS drama anyhow now, where is the update on the game FFS?
Quoted from jfh:Ok, I’m curious. How do you expect CGC to do anything about third party products licensed from the same party they did for the game itself?
PPS (and ultimately SG) control the rights to Cactus Canyon IP.
PPS needs CGC to make the game, update the code etc
When they license the rights from PPS they need to put some guardrails in place that makes it fair for all distributors. That simple
That said, I don’t care what BS PPS tries to pull. I just want to see the game on the line and getting out the door.
I don’t need the “exclusive” back glass or whatever they do
7 months later
Quoted from PPS:Do you all think that displeasure is not already registered? It is already registered. I think what some on the forum are saying is that more displeasure does not really change anything. In fact I expect CGC to be displeased as well ... so everyone is displeased, now what. I think at some point you realize that more time making phone calls and emails etc etc does not change anything - the displeasure is already abundant.
Well, if you guys communicated what was happening and providing updates then you probably wouldn’t be dealing with the phone calls and “displeasure”
Not too much to expect really
Quoted from PPS:You've been around here for a long time ... it's not 'us' guys - we are not Chicago Gaming Company ... they are the ones making the game, delaying the game, not shipping the game, etc. ... so please let's not confuse everyone ... at least let's get this part right! Thx
Doug was communicating on Pinside and via pm during the announcement.
Crickets since. I assume you guys have the communication pipeline with CGC as licensors? Or not?
Any news and transparency is good. Delays? Just be honest with people and that goes a long ways.
It’s really not the delay for me, plenty of games to play, just the radio silence and confusion.
I get that you can’t deliver a game they haven’t produced
7 months later
Quoted from sepins:Now I get it. Thanks for info!
This is going to be another Munsters and Stranger Things.
Prices will continue to drift down until code is released.
Don’t think so. It’s already a great/fun game. Munsters LE is going bye bye this weekend.
My STHLE is staying
It’s GREAT value compared to the BOND 60th you bought and unloaded.
Open it up and play it. You won’t regret it.
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