Never say never. Anything is possible in this hobby - “improbable at this time” would be a safer bet.

That was my major gripe with Houdini - there were too many shots. I love the theme, but the width of some shots is way too narrow. I wanted to love it, but it frustrates me to play it.

I am one of those that would prefer a HUO or high quality restored MM, AFM or MB over the remakes.

But new code (*SIGNIFICANT* new code), would change my preference to a CCr over an original.

I don’t think my distributor has received his final allocation numbers yet.

Have they even announced how many LEs they are making?

I don’t see them leaving money on the table - I am guessing the LE will be between $10k-$11k. CGC just watched Stern sell 1000 GZLEs at $10.5k in seconds.

I hate it, but it is what it is.

CGC hasn’t said how many LEs there will be so no distributor other than PP knows how many they will get.

I’m *guessing* the full reveal will be at Expo in 2 weeks. The real question will be whether they have playable games there or not.

I bet it’s mostly the same presentation, but they reveal the topper.

$9250 LE

I had the video posted - but Zach has better version below

SE $8000

It’s silver - but it has a nice matte texture

I don’t know - 1000 GZLEs were instantly sold out. Spooky sold 1750 games in an hour (the bulk of which were CE).

CC has been a popular (and prohibitively expensive) title for 20 years so there’s a lot of pent up demand for this one. The enhanced code announcement moved it from a “maybe” to a “heck yes” for a lot of people (me included).

The LEs will be sold out this week easy.

You purchased your game from a distrib, not spooky. Spooky sold all 1750 games in an hour - most of those went to individuals, but some distributors bought large quantities.

I guess it’s however you want to look at it - but from Spooky’s perspective, they have sold out the run and will make 1750 games.

There are characters in each window and if you look closely in the pic I took, you can see a skull and crossbones outline in each window. I assume the skull and crossbones lights when the character is defeated.

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I would take it a step further and say it’s an impossible task. If there were a perfect solution, we would all be pointing to it and say “do it just like (x)”. But there isn’t.

Insane demand + inflation + parts shortages + buyer FOMO + competing titles + workforce issues + pandemic = sh*t show.

I’m honesty just happy that these manufacturers are beating the odds and getting games out. Pinball is hard!

I wonder what percentage of buyers only became interested after the enhanced code announcement? I know I’m one of them.

If this is the standard going forward, I just got a lot more excited about TOTANr.

If only we could have a WWE caliber game come out, maybe it would poison the LE well for the flippers.

Black Knight and Eight Ball Deluxe had limited editions in the ‘80s.

Honestly - the LE price inflation wasn’t a thing until the last year or so. They held their value and had moderate appreciation over the years, but the hyper exponential craziness is pretty recent.

It’s a wicked combination of a lot of new people entering the hobby, limited location play due to COVID, supply shortages, hyper inflation, worker shortages, government handouts and opportunistic flippers…am I forgetting anything???

The topper was intended to be an LE-only feature.

…right up until last Friday when the LEs were instantly sold out at reveal.

Now CGC is faced with a tough choice - one that inevitably disappoints a lot of LE buyers or a lot of SE buyers.

I think the best way to “thread the needle” is to offer a cheaper topper ($500?) with a Bart plastic instead of the moving version on the LE. Stern does this all the time on their pro models - using a plastic in place of a molded figure on the Prem/LE.

There may be a few SE/LE buyers that are moderately disappointed with this approach- but I think most will be fine. Compromise is always best!

It’s an interesting conundrum. Generally, people buy LEs for exclusivity (pre-2021 at least). The other manufacturers do that mainly with art packages (which CGC can’t do or hasn’t tried) and/or with exclusive toppers.

I think most people up until last Friday expected the CC topper to be the main exclusive feature on the LE (as it was on MB and AFM) so that’s why there’s some consternation.

In the future - glitter playfield accents, mirrored backglass, foil decals (or rad cals), shooter rods, etc could keep the LE exclusive if the topper is made available to other models.

You can only order a mirrored backglass if you are on the PPS CC preorder list?

I think you need to offer the backglass to any CC buyer regardless of where they ordered from. I asked to get on the PPS list before the reveal and never even got a response back.

Or just sell Pro/Premium/Elite models with no limits at all.

Personally, I like the limited # edition games though. The collection-oriented part of my personality enjoys the thrill of the hunt. I don't get every LE that I want, but missing out on one gives me something to search for/trade for down the line.

I thought the prevailing rumor was that CCr was going to have different hardware? I’d also heard they were no longer emulating on CCr - in order to extend/enhance, the original code was ported to the new system. If this is the case, it would not work on the original CCs.

All that aside, CGC has no vested interest in enhancing original CCs (quite the opposite in fact). Unfortunately, original CCs are going to take a bigger value loss than MM/MB/AFM because of the code enhancement.

If I were looking into my crystal ball - it would be a pretty wise (yet controversial) financial move for CGC to port MMr to the new hardware and get Lyman to enhance the MM code (that would not be backwards compatible with MM and require a costly board upgrade for first gen MMRs).

That's interesting! I just asked Pat Lawlor about Diamondplate at his Expo seminar and he indicated that components of the Diamondplate urethane had been banned by the EPA and could no longer be used.

With the information you just stated and a little reading between the lines, the urethane components probably aren't available in Germany where Mirco makes JJP's playfields. So I guess it was the truth - "from a certain point of view".

Why do you think this? The profit margin is highest on the top end models. I would put my money on another MM release with big monitor + topper. If they had Lyman add some new code, they would sell a crap ton of them.

I think CE or SE could have been their plan Pre-CCr release, but after the LEs sold out in 15 minutes, things changed.

We certainly didn’t see anything about a CC SE+ Edition in the presentation - because it didn’t exist at that point.

Call if a “Damsel” edition, “Dragon Fire” edition, it doesn’t matter. Heck - call it a “Peasant” edition for that matter. The point is - it doesn’t matter what they call it. They will sell the entire run regardless, so why not make the highest profit per unit possible?

It was my understanding that they had already built 100s of CCs before the announcement.

But maybe that was just a rumor?

This makes me think saloon doors are coming. Or am I reading this incorrectly?

I have a brand new Evga FTW3 Ultra 3080 unopened if anyone wants it for cost. I ordered it and the water cooled version over a year ago and they just came in a week ago. My son wanted the water cooled one so the other is up for grabs!

(Sorry for the off topic post)

***Card is Sold!***

It's LHR (no mining) - EVGA switched everyone in the wait queue to the non-mining cards (as did the other manufacturers). I'm glad they did or else no one would ever be able to buy a card for gaming.

(again - sorry for the off-topic. But maybe CGC will see our video card posts and feel compelled to pop in and give us an update!)

A DIY approach where they just sent us parts of a game as they were available would be kind of fun (for some of us):

February - backglass
March - cabinet
April - populated PF
May - boards
June - topper

(Not advocating for this - just saying it would be enjoyable for me personally)

My guess is they were trying to get the saloon doors into the game before they went out - which required the door hardware & new programming from Lyman.

Or maybe just trying to further integrate the topper into the code.

Either way - much more difficult with Lyman’s passing.

I couldn’t afford full price NIB pins back then, but around ‘97 some of my prices paid were:

$100 Banzai Run (diamondplated)
$400 Funhouse
$562 Discs of Tron Environmental
$650 TZ
$750 TAF
$1900 CV NIB on closeout
$2300 MM (these were never very cheap b/c they earned so well)

Pics look great!

I expect there will be an update soon - now that some SEs are starting to roll out.

There was a small run in August - they just didn’t make enough to fulfill all the orders.

If/when they re-run, it will have the big monitor and topper. They will just give it a new name like JJP does - Ruby Red/Yellow Brick Road WoZ editions that came after Emerald City.

It will attract more buyers and maximize their profits.

I could see them doing an SE+ - basically a Royal without the powder.

CC has proven to be more popular than they anticipated. After 500+ SEs made, there is still zero stock at distributors. I would guess that the eventual total number of SE+ orders will be somewhere around 2500 which would put the total run up around 5k games.

That puts pressure on them to go straight to the next title as they will be lucky to finish CC by the end of 2023. Unless they add more capacity, I don't see how they could run MM in 2023.

I should have said effectively zero - all of the distribs I use still have none.

That's cool that there is at least one distrib out there with stock. It's going to be a very long wait before the SEs are available again once the LE/SE+ production begins.

Reading between the lines, I think Ice feels you might know more about what's causing the delays than us peons.

I'm just curious if you are more frustrated with CGC or Haggis? I have deposits on both and it's certainly an exercise in patience.

Hahahaha - I wondered which would come first - the AZ election results or CCLEs. Now we know.

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Ok - the next CGC title is Bugs Bunny Birthday Ball, followed by Popeye and Gillian's Island.

Hah - I like them too - but not enough to want an $8k remake. I was just poking fun at the "any 90s B/W remake would sell out" statement.

It will be interesting to see in 10 years if market is above MSRP on HWN/UM and TS4.

Personally, I think the LE/CE runs are too big now. Deadpool LE, GotGLE hover around $14k market yet their runs were half the size of TS4/Bond ($13.5k/$15k MSRP).