Cactus Canyon (Remake - LE)
Chicago Gaming Co., 2021
Cactus Canyon (Remake - Special Edition Plus)
Chicago Gaming Co., 2021
Cactus Canyon (Remake - Special Edition)
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Anyone know if CGC has updated how u install / update code on this game? Is it still a chip or can u actually install code via USB or WiFi? Seems like they may or may not sell the Lyman code so it would be nice if u could load/update via USB or WiFi. If u have both on the game can u switch between code versions?
Quoted from LTG:Same as three previous games. Micro SD card stuck into slot on board in the head.
LTG : )
Thanks....so you'll have to manually switch between code versions?
Quoted from bigd1979:I doubt that.. probably in the settings as all that has been overhauled also
Thats what I would assume, but it would be nice to have that confirmed! maybe all versions are on the one card? If Lyman is doing code I assume he'll probably have several versions (over time) that will require uploading to the game, which would require downloading versions from CGC and uploading to the game. I may be wrong, but I don't think CGC has ever done this before?
Quoted from copperpot:I bet his allocation minus any presales he had was exceedingly small. Oh well. Was worth a shot. What a world we live in.
I've purchased from Joe in the past and he told me via email there was no pre sales, and he wasn't putting together a list even for past LE/CE buyers. He told me to get in line and purchase through his email list. Of course I tried that, and was denied....live and learn....soon this craziness will pass
Quoted from wackenhut:So...my wife told me she did not care for guns or violence in the house. That being said, I have to sell my CCr LE spot...25k?
My guess is you'll be one of many
Quoted from chooch:He already confirmed some were sold beforehand. They all will say there are no presales that way they don't hurt anyone's feelings or make them feel others are getting preferential treatment.
Well I've been a past customer, and he told me the opposite so now I know where I stand 
All good as there's other distributors out there
Quoted from pickleric:Take all this with a grain of salt. Their *might* be a tiny few who got preferential treatment, but I doubt its many if any at all. I'd talk to Joe first before reading too much into any conjecture.
I get it...its all good...I'm already over it and moved on to plan B....
Quoted from JSC:They should just make topper available separately.
Wouldn’t hold my breathe on craziness passing…we may just be getting started. Look at the luxury watch market, it is insane with no signs of slowing. Obviously different concept, but probably not all that different type of buyer.
I wasn't aware of the luxury watch market...has that gone crazy? I have about 12 watches that fit that market...maybe time to sell a few?
Quoted from chooch:It's a dog eat dog world now. Being a past customer used to mean something and I been buying NIB games for over 20 years. Look a Kaneda. He has an opportunity to buy every LE and because he has made connections in the hobby over the years with people like Joe and its well known. Nothing wrong with that but anyone thinking people don't get preferential treatment need to get their head out of their ass.
I totally agree...
Quoted from AstonEnthusiast:The luxury watch market is absolutely nuts. This hobby has finally caught up. Daytona's going for 50k. 30 year old Subs going for 18k+. Authorized dealers snidely selling to the grey market to boost resale values and manufacturers doing nothing about it. You could once travel to Dubai and walk into any AD and select your watch of choice. All dealer cases are empty and you have to buy crappy models to be "eligible" to get on a list of maybe getting a sports model.
wow I had no idea....I have 4 Daytona's maybe sell a few and get a few pinball games
Quoted from cloggedDrain:Yeah I just looked up what my explorer 2 is going for
what source do you use to find realistic values?
Quoted from mrclean:Really ?! Well I can't find one, so in the event you find one from a distro, please let me know as I'd like to purchase a CCR LE.
I've owned all the CGC LE's, and based on past experience CGC won't even start shipping these for 3-6 months....if they tell you 6 weeks its probably more like 12-16 ....my point is many people will drop out and give up their spots at some point....it may take a months, but many will come available. Aside from the original MMRLE (which took almost 2 years to get the game) run both AFMRLE and MBRLE were available for almost a year after the release yet everyone claimed they were sold out day 1....
Quoted from CoolCatPinball:Genuine question here. Were the deposits on previous CGC titles refundable or did that depend on which distributor you ordered from? I'm asking because on CCr, most distributors I'm seeing are requiring a $500 deposit NON refundable. That could potentially cut down on people bailing out.
I think my MMRLE, MBRLE, and AFMRLE deposits were all technically non refundable. Zero chance I would put down a $500 non refundable deposit on an SE, and then wait 4-8 months for CGC to deliver....I would be patient and wait it out until distributors have them in stock. There will be dozens for sale.
Quoted from NC_Pin:I think I ordered my MBr LE in early October and received it in early March. If I remember correctly, they made the MBr LE's before the other models... plus we weren't dealing with all of the supply chain interruptions.
I believe my MBRLE took 3-4 months and I was on the number matching priority list since I purchased the other CGC LE's (MMRLE, and AFMRLE)....MMRLE took almost 2 years, and my AFMRLE took over 6 months.....I love CGC games, but they NEVER make schedule and are always months behind (and that was pre covid). A lot can happen to this market in 6-12 months as Stern, JJP, etc will be releasing new games that may become higher priority ? My guess is that unless Lyman knocks it out of the park (and the cost is reasonable) you'll be seeing a lot of CCRLE's on the market.
Quoted from Tortelvis:Agree about the topper. If I don’t get an LE, I have no interest in an SE without the topper. I’ll get something else if it ends up that you can’t put the topper on the SE. I don’t see any reason to order an SE at this time.
In the past (MBR and AFM) the topper was unique to the LE's ONLY. They changed that with the royal so us LE owners could upgrade. I would be surprised if CGC allowed SE buyers to upgrade, but who knows. We need clarity from CGC on this. I'd be fine if they sold the topper separately as its better for all
Quoted from metallik:The additional code took about 5 minutes to get through. CCr isn't much different from WPC CC. Need Continued to make this worthwhile...
whats the difference?
Quoted from JSC:The topper has also never had game play elements and the market is very different now. I wish they’d just make them all available (so I can selfishly get the AFM topper).
yea I think the AFM topper is by far the best they've made thus far ! I haven't seen how the CCR topper really works so hard to compare, but definitely better than MM or the MBR toppers that basically do nothing, but light up.
Quoted from CoolCatPinball:I agree. Charging for updated/new code is pretty upsetting. However, if the new Lyman code makes the game overly complicated, they can keep it. No thanks.
so many unanswered questions as CGC has done a very poor job of communicating to its customer base, and apparently their presentation at the expo was a complete joke. I'd simply like to know what "enhanced" code means along with the cost of the Lyman code is to LE buyers. It would also be nice to know whether or not SE buyers can buy LE components (topper, game blades, apron, etc...)
Quoted from Markharris2000:So 'original' means as shipped by WMS about 20 years ago (buggy and incomplete), 'enhanced' means that CGC fixed/finished the original planned CactusCanyon functionality before WMS pulled the plug in 1999 or so (and ended software development on CC) , and then 'Lyman's code' will be his interpretation of what CCr's theme can do given the playfield toys/hardware that exists (almost a blank canvas in software).
Is that a fair guess?
Its certainly a fair guess, but it would be nice to hear it from CGC. Also what version was played at the Expo? I haven't watched any of the videos.
Quoted from metallik:Maybe next time CGC will just make regular and enhanced versions of the games and skip the "limited" part. Silly to hold back when so much demand for the LE features here.
If they go that route (which is fine) than "Limited" basically means nothing....CGC was very upfront with MMR upgrades, but not so much with CCR
Quoted from Soulrider911:Anyone dealt with https://toppinballmachines.com/
Seems mega scammy
I messaged them about CCR LE, the response was "we have them in stock ready to ship" LOL
Thats almost funny
IMHO the only thing that really matters is that CGC is transparent in whether or not they'll let SE owners upgrade to the LE features. They were very clear with MMR so why not CCR? Being wishy washy about it makes things worse. Just let potential customers make an informed decision and move on.
Quoted from CoolCatPinball:Being wishy washy on this one when they were very clear on MM may be a pretty good indicator that they'll be made available.
well thats my point....if thats truly the case tell everyone, and let the SE owners know what the cost will be....they've had a very long time to figure this all out. I find it hard to believe they don't already know the answer.
Quoted from jfh:The idea that CGC was deliberately misleading anyone on the CCr page is ridiculous and insulting.
The text says “Topper is included with the Limited Edition” not “Topper is exclusive to the Limited Edition”.
Like many (most?) I read “Limited Edition Only” as “only on the LE” (in part because that’s the way it was on AFMr and because of the wording on the RGB GI feature and because there were no modifiers on “All New Original Sculptures”). The interpretation is also consistent with how the industry has defined limited edition features since marketing multiple versions of the same game was introduced.
The train tracks are also listed as “Limited Edition Only”. I presumed that meant you can’t get them for other models. If the topper is offered to everyone then the train tracks, upgraded arch and trim should be too, right? (partially kidding)
If this whole discussion leads to dropping the idea of limited/special/collector editions across the industry I’m all for it. Make it like car buying where there is a base feature package and you can select a handful of customization options. That nerfs the flippers and allows people to get the games the way they want (but of course creates a new process burden for manufacturers and makes production line management more complex).
Whichever the decision, it’s not going to change my order of or enthusiasm for CCr.
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I hear what your saying, but your missing the point. The point is CGC has never done that before (MBR, AFMR) so being wishy washy on the topic is really CGC's mess. They really should have been transparent on day 1. My guess is they regret this decision.
Quoted from NightTrain:Doug_Duba I love your product. It’s top notch. You’ve got a great company and I happily support it. Keep in mind though, that this pinball buying craze will wear off. When it does, buyers will remember what you do.
Not long ago, you could grab NIB CGC LE’s without a problem. There was no rush. Covid and supply chain issues have caused the entire world to go nuts. Supply is down, demand is up, and prices are soaring on everything. You guys kept prices reasonable though. I immediately applauded you for that. I figured you guys “got it”.
I’m in the car business. We could be selling cars for 20% more if we wanted to. We don’t. Why? Because the supply chain will get back to normal eventually. Our customers will remember how we acted when we could have charged more. We will be rewarded for that in the long run.
On your website, you said the topper was “only” for the limited edition. I just asked my wife a question. I said “Hey if I was selling two different model cars, and I said that blue was only on one of the cars, do you think you could get it on the other car?” She looked at me like I was an idiot. Completely puzzled. She said, “what the f$&k are you talking about?” I said, “Just answer!”. She said “obviously you could only get it on the one car. What kind of a question is that?”.
Spin it how you see fit my friend. Even if you didn’t mean for it to be misleading, it was. Someone in the marketing department should have realized that. You could have said “included on the LE”. You could have had an asterisk that said “may be available for the SE at a later date”. You didn’t. Not many people watched the reveal to hear it was undecided. They were honestly the lucky ones. I took time out of my day for that. Damn.
Just understand that when the supply chain picks back up, and the buying frenzy is over, people will remember things. A lot of people bought the LE for the exclusivity of the topper. I’m one of those people. At the end of the day, it’s your rodeo and it’s your bull. Ride it how you want. I wish you the best in your decision and I look forward to my CCRLE and that thing on the top of it. What’s that called again?
Well stated
Quoted from pinballaddicted:CGC did not fumble anything. A couple of months ago CGC asked for people to put their name on an interest list for a LE. I am sure that was to decide how many they should make.
Easy right? No! Not in the world of pinball. Game is released and all of a sudden, plenty of people want a LE. That is not CGCs fault. They did their best to ensure they made enough to suit demand. If you did not put your name down for a game a couple of months ago, that is your fault.
Your also missing the point...its not the number of LE's (I could care less)....the issue is whether they sell LE upgrades to SE buyers....all would have been fine if CGC was upfront on reveal, but they were not.....CGC has created this drama...
Quoted from pinballaddicted:I do not see that at all. I feel it is clear that making the topper available for other editions was undecided. I have watched all the streams, reveals etc,etc. When I read the stuff I think it reads that you get the topper with the LE (only). If you want it for other versions you have to pay for it. Some people are making confusion because they want the topper only available for their LE as it makes their LE worth more money. (in their view)
It does not bother me either way. I think toppers should be available for every version.
Than clearly u like the Stern model. Its very simple .... CGC wasn't transparent at launch, and in the past releases they've never sold LE upgrades to SE buyers (MMR doesn't count)....if they decide to do so (we should know in 24 hours now) than so be it, but I guarantee u it will change how people look at their next release. My guess is they already know they will sell the topper yet haven't revealed it yet (my guess is it will retail for $999+)....I'm all about profit and there is no doubt selling a piece of plastic that they've already designed and engineered and probably cost them less than $100 for a grand is good business.
Quoted from ClassicHornet:How about throwing in the HD glass to LE buyers to ease or de- thorn that pineapple you just shoved up their ass
Totally agree or throw in the new Lyman code for free or a serious discount (like they did with the color chip for the original MMRLE buyers) ....the only option on the LE that was really worth anything was the topper. Aside from the apron all the others will be easily replicated by the creative modders, and in most cases they will do a nicer job. I guess the good news is we now know the CGC business model, and that future LE's won't really be limited....
Quoted from Yesh23:An LE owner needs start a forum post with a poll asking what would make them happy…. Obviously one of the poll options should be nothing ( that would be a disagree) which I don’t think there’d be many
Whats the point? The good news is we now know what CGC will do on future releases, and they have no interest in selling truly limited products. Just is what it is....
Quoted from cooked71:But you LE buyers are still getting the best version of the game that only 1250 are lucky enough to have. You’re getting more than what you get on a Stern LE AND it’s the same price as the Premium.
But CgC’s biggest problem is that they should have decided all this before launch.
Theres no sugar coating this shit show....CGC was wishy washy day 1, because they wanted to see how LE sales went. When they were in high demand they reversed course (from past LE's) and decided to take the $ and sell the topper for $1250. I'm not saying the LE guys didn't get a better deal, but they certainly didn't get something that was truly limited as most "limited collectors" could give two shits about the shaker, game blades, train tracks, and apron. The only thing they really cared about was the uniqueness of the topper.
Quoted from flynnibus:Difference is afmle were already sold and committed- these buyers are not locked in like afmle owners are
Not really (except CGC said they would give your deposit back) other than that its exact same scenario...$1000 deposit and wait 6-12 months before u pay the balance ...
Quoted from cooked71:Agree, it’s not going to make any difference.
Clearly it won't make any difference on CCR LE sales, but my guess is it will matter on future sales as "LE only" buyers know that it doesn't mean anything to CGC anymore. CGC just needs to remove the "limited" versions of future games, because clearly it means nothing.
Quoted from Tranquilize:I don't see anything limited or extra value at this point. If you put a shaker and blades and get @linoleum to CNC you the arch, you have an LE. Who cares about a numbered plate? No one.
Totally agree.....CGC doesnt make "Limited" anything anymore....At this stage I wouldn't be surprised CGC sold the apron, game blades, train tracks, and toys as an upgrade kit in the future....when the smoke clears the only thing LE buyers got was a $10 plaque
Quoted from Tranquilize:Seeing that you can't even read a few pages back, I'll spell it out for you for the fiftieth time: almost everyone wants the game. Show me evidence of these flippers. The number is very low.
Not everyone can get the latest stern LE. Guess why? It's LIMITED.
They did a run of 1250 when stern usually does 500. This company will feel it when times aren't as good, trust me. I'm only keeping my order because I've wanted this game for over a decade. I don't care what they make in the future.
I can't believe that stern has ended up being the best pinball company. It's like I'm living in another dimension.
CGC should just move to the JJP model....make a shit ton of LE's even thought their not LE's, and have a CE version of the game (500 units) or simply make a base model and let people buy whatever upgrades they want i.e. topper, game blades, trim, toys, etc.....
Quoted from Tranquilize:I totally agree. I don't care if they want to sell a zillion LEs. I'm just not a fan of being deceived.
Apparently I needed to attend a show to learn about what I was buying.
Live and learn...now we know their business model...just imagine the profit CGC is making on selling that topper for $1200+ .... well over a grand per unit....I'm sure that was hard for them to walk away from in this stupid market (which will change sooner than later IMHO)
Quoted from Yelobird:Sooo, are you in then? Seemed pretty clear you had no interest in this product nor the market interest for these to sell? Seems they did a pretty good job from what the interest is showing.
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Well I'll help u with your english....first they finished the original code, and then hey hired Lyman to do another version of the game. If u don't think that had an impact than you've been drinking too much this weekend.
Quoted from seenev:They're just trying to deflect blame. They say they answered every email/text, then when a bunch of people here say they never got a response, they assert that it's the customer's fault for never proving to them after the fact that they indeed reached out, even though they admit it won't make a difference unless the customer agrees to buy an SE+ in the hopes they'll get bumped up to an LE. The entire thing feels like a scam to get more sales with the false hope of getting an LE.
Insinuating that we're all lying when we don't want to resend our contact info to a company with these kinds of business practices is also very low. Notice how PPS didn't dispute in their comment what several of us reported... That they're prioritizing SE+ orders regardless of when you tried to join the waiting list for an LE. How is that not a shady business practice?
I can understand your frustration, but my experience with Sara/PPS has been entirely different. She's responded to every email in a timely manner and has always been professional about it. Clearly when CGC decided to sell more toppers is was a cash grab in order to sell more SE's for an additional $1250 with probably $100 in additional cost. They probably make more money off the topper than they do the game
Quoted from wackenhut:The initial announcement of the SE+ mentioned building the same amount as the LE version.
I got the same email....no thanks ...
Quoted from WizardsCastle:Whoa... Hold up here!
Haven't looked at this thread in a couple of weeks, and come back to find out that it's toppers for all, backglass for more $$$, and a loyalty program to get me in line for LEs that are really all that special anymore?
What's going on!?!?!
New CGC business model....sell profitable accessories to every one .... no real LE's anymore
If they were smart they would price it so that most people pay the upgrade cost ($200-$300)...
Quoted from Only_Pinball:I am guessing $250-$300
Totally agree...if they start getting in the $600-$900 range they won't sell very many
Quoted from jfh:To me, this was the key comment about the code.
I expect Lyman’s code will be awesome. It will shine. People will buy it.
My guess is your correct on Lyman code, but it won't sell well if its over priced....$200-300 yes....$500+ no
Quoted from Yelobird:Everyone has their own personal expectation price point but I suspect they will have No issue selling it at any price. As nobody Has to buy it no need to speculate on what we think they should do.
Time will tell, but I doubt people will throw stupid money at a code update
Quoted from CoolCatPinball:I would never put one on ANY machine unless it was an old classic with Playfield wear that I wanted to prevent from getting worse. Like others said, they change the feel of the play, and eventually they wear out and look awful. I feel they're a waste of time and money on modern machines.
I tend to agree, however I recently purchased a HUO TSPP that the previous owner installed a play field protector. Its actually really nice (I was surprised), and u can't really tell its even there....not sure why he installed one, but the play field is perfect
Quoted from TheCnyPinGuy:Have any been built / shipped ??
November is just about over any pictures from CGC of the mine rolling these out
CGC makes a great product, but they are historically months behind when it comes to actually shipping out games.
Quoted from MrMikeman:BINGO!!
I don't expect LEs to ship until late spring into summer TBH based on previous CGC performance.
I'd be shocked if ANY of the SEs ship before Xmas regardless of what CGC said at the shows.
Based on my past experience (I have all 3 LE's) your probably correct unless by some miracle they stock piled parts the last few years, which is very doubtful ....
Quoted from Quadrat:That's a shame, imo if you own two out of three and now buying CCR LE they should hook you up with the matching number. Two out of three is a loyal customer. Can't wait until I get my game. CGC put out a great product.
I didnt start number matching until my AFRMLE purchase so I sent in pics of my MBRLE, AFMRLE and my MMRLE with a different number....we'll see what happens...no word yet
Quoted from explosiveegg:Why do you want your LE numbers to match?
I seem to be out of the loop but I just don't understand why people desire this.
Honestly I could give two shits, but in the past they moved the number matching on LE's to the front of the line....no idea if their doing that anymore?
Quoted from jfh:What details are listed in the email?
Just price, ship date of Q1 2022, and whether or not u want one
Quoted from Richard-NBA-SF2:Was just listening to Zach Menys podcast (TPN), he spoke with Ryan at a recent show and they are only a couple weeks behind and things are moving along nicely.
CGC is always just a "couple" weeks behind that typically extends out to 8-12 weeks....the good news is games will eventually ship, but if history means anything than it will be quite a while.
Quoted from Deadpool66:Alright so those that got in on AFM AND MMR, How far off were they on shipping those opposed to the advertised date?
original MMR - took 2 years, but that was years a go, and they were just getting started
AFRMRLE - 3+ months
MBRLE - 3+ months
AMRLE and MBRLE were both number matching so in theory I was put in front of the line although I doubt that actually happened. They make great games, but one has to be patient as they are always months behind
Quoted from Deadpool66:Im cool with that just curious I’m getting the peasant edition so hopefully sooner than later.
Maybe you'll luck out and get one in January
Quoted from RA77:Have to agree
I would go as far as calling WH20 to date, the GOAT in the pinball topper world.
Definitely a great one.....although AFMRLE is right up there!
Quoted from jfh:I suspect you are correct. But hope you are wrong too!
We were all excited about hearing some news before Christmas but CGC (Chicago Grinch Coalition) seems to be keeping a tight lid on things …
He's not wrong...even during the greatest of times CGC was always months behind schedule...my guess is LE's won't start shipping until Q2 at best.
Quoted from jfh:True. But in the past haven’t they have chimed in and told folks why? I remember reading about the issues with getting the Monster Bash playfields right and the delay that caused. All we have heard this time is that SEs were going to be built while they waited for topper parts.
It doesn’t look like anything will be shipping until mid-January which puts things about two months behind schedule already. I’m in no rush; I want my game to be as good as it can be. If I don’t see it until 2Q/3Q/later that’s fine. Not cancelling my order or getting another game.
In the meantime I want to live vicariously though pictures/updates/discussion, seeing others getting their games and hearing about experiences. It would be nice to see some pictures from production, stories about the development process, some inkling as to why we haven’t seen a game, pretty much anything related to Cactus Canyon and/or something that resets expectations. There are hundreds maybe thousands of backordered games at Stern with buyers who in some cases have had deposits down the better part of a year or more and have absolutely no idea when or even if they will see their games. I’d hate to see the same lack of info derail the Cactus Canyon train.
I've purchased all their LE's and they have always been way behind schedule. They make great games, but delivering on time is not their forte. You combine past performance with the reality of today than its gonna be a long wait for many. I agree that it would be nice if they provided realistic updates, but clearly they don't have any interest in doing that.
Collect deposits, promise early deliveries, and then deliver 6-12 months later....seems to be the current trend in the industry
Quoted from pch3727:Seriously. If you say games will ship in 2021 and miss the mark, at least give an update. The complete silence is a little worrisome.
Even during "normal" times CGC was always 8-12 weeks behind schedule...god only knows where they are with this game? The good news is by the time they ship the LE's the Lyman code will probably be complete
Quoted from Tlamb:It’s a reputable distributor, main reason I sent full payment.
If you're worried about it have the distributor wire u back the money (minus the deposit). My guess is your gonna have a very long wait with CGC as they are notorious for big delays.
Quoted from MrMikeman:Let's agree to disagree. Go to the MMr thread from Oct 2019 until June 2020. Same complaints and redundant whining about CGC being late and silent and folks wanting updates. When they did get an update from CGC it made things even worse with more whining and questions and dumb-ass suggestions.
Those of us who actually have bought a NIB CGC game previously have seen this before. It didn't ruin our lives. We eventually all got our games and life goes on. I get the excitement. An update to say "we don't know when they will ship" is pointless. We already know that.
Well I've seen this movie three times so I'm pretty well versed in CGC timelines. The difference being the last three times there weren't supply chain issues yet they were still months (many) behind schedule. It would be nice to get an update from CGC or the distribution network on whats really going on. We can all speculate, but it's always nice to hear from them directly so we're not making up stuff. The reality is if its 6-12 months I might decide to forego my spot and allocate the funds to another game or simply get another game while I'm waiting? When you take hard cash to secure a spot than communication is expected (at least for me).
Quoted from Tranquilize:My hope is for zero update and games shipped without toppers. Then an update that toppers are coming soon. Nothing more.
I could actually see this happening, which wouldn't be the end of the world
Quoted from MrMikeman:Short memory then? This exact thing happened with the Royal Edition. Topper parts were missing. CGC would not ship the games incomplete.
Not really as I don't have the Royal...It's a trade off between getting games out the door, and getting paid versus a little more work along with paying a little more for shipping....time will tell
Quoted from Jodester:I agree. PPS chimed in here regarding glass a couple days back. Why not give the buyers some update?
My guess is PPS probably knows whats going on, but it's really not their place to chime in on manufacturing issues.
Quoted from explosiveegg:Isn't that part of the point of having distributors though. They act as a liaison between the manufacturer and the customer. They are the intermediary.
Don't get me wrong, they shouldn't provide specifics, but they should inform the customers if a delay has occurred.
One would think, but clearly CGC either has told the distribution network to stay quiet or hasn't informed them of them of the problem.
Quoted from ClassicHornet:Are we still able to cancel LE orders ? Or has that ship sailed ?
My guess is cancelling an LE order is pretty easy! Cancelling an SE + is probably an entirely different deal.
Quoted from mbeardsley:Because that's what they said in their presentation. The next MMr run would be CE and SE models, no more Royals or LE's.
Of course, they didn't say that they would never do some new "Monarch" edition, but that was certainly not the "flavor" of their announcement.
My guess is CGC will sell MMR's fully loaded as it's clearly their most profitable game. Selling these with the topper, RGB lighting, and large screen makes all the sense in the world. My guess is they'll just powder coat in a different color
CGC has always been terrible at meeting schedule....it appears it's gotten worse, which is kind of hard to believe (even with supply chain issues).... I mean they only had years between releases
Quoted from john17a:before the terrible news of the death of Lyman , i had a friend tell me that the update code was going to cost a (AUSTRALIAN) substantial amount of money , without going into the figure mentioned im thinking even that figure is now out the window ,, has anyone heard what the update code was going to cost , curious to see if the $$$ i heard was correct
Yea without Lyman not sure that code is worth much....One of the reasons I pulled the trigger on an LE was the hope that Lyman could turn the game into a masterpiece
I've been very happy with my other 3 CGC LE purchases as they make quality games. Originally I wasn't very excited about CCRLE, but the hope and prayer of Lyman magic was the selling point for my decision. Sadly this will never happen so it really makes me question if its even worth it anymore? Combine that with the lack of communication, clear manufacturing problems, and 6+ month delays....UGH
Quoted from jfh:Anyone who bought CCr solely because of possible Lyman magic was probably going to be disappointed no matter what.
Cactus Canyon is underrated and fun. While I’m sad we won’t likely see what Lyman had in mind, that’s not a reason for me to cancel.
However, it wouldn’t surprise me to see a good number of orders cancelled in February by those that were only in because of Lyman and/or the deteriorating confidence in CGC because of their lack of transparency or people moving money to a game they can get quicker.
We are almost three months behind the schedule floated at release. Not having an official update by now is extremely disappointing from a company that otherwise treats their customers well. But even if CGC gives us an update I doubt we’ll hear anything about the fate of the Josh/Lyman package since it’s unlikely there has been enough time to analyze the options and impacts.
Well in my case "solely" is not entirely accurate, however it was a "Big" factor in making my decision. The guy was so talented at his craft I was pretty confident that he would work his magic (i.e. TWD). At this stage I'm on the fence about my LE order.
Quoted from jfh:At the rate we’re going you may be able to sit on that fence until Christmas …
Yep....or longer ?
Quoted from Damonator:It was my understanding that they had already built 100s of CCs before the announcement.
But maybe that was just a rumor?
well they also said they would start shipping product in November....so clearly that was a bad rumor
Quoted from jfh:There were about 800 or so (blank) playfields done. Never saw confirmation of any games (except a handful of pre-production games).
Do we know this was true?
Quoted from Only_Pinball:I am guessing it was met with more silence?
Nope they responded within a few hours. Per their email they have nothing to report as they haven't heard anything from CGC
I haven't heard anything, but not sure I'd buy the back glass with ZERO indication on when you'll get the game....
Quoted from jfh:Well, that’s the beauty of what PPS did.
Many backglass orders have already been paid for in full. Since most distributors listed them as special orders they aren’t returnable.
Initial orders had to be placed in December, presumably to determine the size of the initial (only?) run so it’s unclear how many will be available in the future. PPS gets money upfront to help fund production, sellers get their cut and we wait for delivery. Absolutely nothing wrong with that model, but I can’t imagine PPS is going to make hundreds more for future stock.
I'm on the PPS "interested" list, but haven't been asked to pay for anything. If I was asked I'd probably pass until I actually knew I was getting a game. PPS has been great to work with so I'd be surprised if they required customers to pay for a back glass before they got the game.
Quoted from Vino:Ok, let’s get on track with a delivery update:
[quoted image]
Holy Shit....looks like that hurt
Quoted from jfh:The matched LEs are no longer front of the line this tine.
Has that been confirmed? I was told CGC hasn't made a decision on that issue! Although my guess is they have much bigger issues at the moment
Quoted from Quadrat:I'm on the LE match also. I was told by Ryan that the matching numbers will not be done first like in the past. That part of the loyalty program is gone. Shame as I would think it's easier to knock out matching # list first (mfg side of thinking). Well when it gets here it gets here. I'm waiting on other pins also. Same when they get here they get here. Not much I can do. And I don't plan to cancel I'll just play mine & go out to support others like always.
The last I heard about this was about a month ago when my distributor requested copies of my LE aprons for my MMRLE, AFMRLE, and MBRLE....haven't heard anything since
Quoted from Quadrat:I was asking Ryan about the loyalty program. He told me the same about the LE aprons. So I sent him and my distributor the pics for matching numbers. After I asked him about them running LE matching first out of the LEs.
At the moment the only thing I really care about is when they'll ship games....any game is fine with me....the good news is my distributor said they'll refund my deposit
Quoted from Only_Pinball:I think we will see our games sooner then this. Could be that there are a bunch built just waiting on a part or two and then will go out in large batches when parts arrive. This is my hope at least.
Dreams are free.....
Quoted from Deadpool66:That's just what I was told from the distributer. I'm sure it wouldn't be ideal to have cabs everywhere but these are different times. Who knows at least its something whether it turns out to be true or a rumor.
Hoping sooner than later as I keep seeing other games come up for sale and its tempting.
Considering CGC hasn't communicated anything publicly nor anything to its largest distributor (thats what I was told) my guess is its gonna be several months before LE's ship....
Quoted from jfh:Did you get the NIB close out special?
Biggest regret of my collection is passing on that and getting SW:E1 instead.
He bought those 20+ years ago
Quoted from jfh:That’s why I asked. I recognized the close out price for Cactus Canyon. $1700-$1800 depending on your distributor.
My best deal was probably a 6 month old barely played NGG for $1300 or a similar Safe Cracker. Still have both.
Next would be a Sing Along in great shape for $100 at a local auction. Sold that but ended up with a restored one.
Awesome....
Quoted from Dan1733:Can't say yet. But I know for a fact it is true. This will be the first concrete/accurate news in 5494 posts.
Enjoy!
right 
Quoted from jfh:I’m just reporting what I was told when I asked about the flyers.
They have to be pretty far down the to do list.
In fairness deciding how to allocate money/resources isn’t dependent on what is happening right now. But from the sounds of it, CCr production and parts tracking/management is pretty time consuming now and tons of people calling to find out where their game is after the shipping confirmation earlier this week hasn’t helped.
Theres seem to be a lot of starts and stops with CGC, which I'm sure is pretty challenging. They don't seem to be interested in continuous manufacturing.
Quoted from jfh:Sorry. “Unofficially” and “announced” are clearly different.
I’m looking for the accepted early time frame of when the community knew/strongly suspected CCr was indeed the fourth remake. Certainly not when Rick confirmed that seven or so remakes were in the pipeline but when did CCr become the odds on favorite (probably sometime during the MBR cycle?). Pretty sure the official confirmation was last August and of course the official announcement was in October. I’m just looking to fill in an estimated timeline.
Its been a couple years since the rumors started. My guess is CGC allocated funds to the design/development team yet ignored the balance of the project, and got caught with their pants down, which is why we haven't seen a manufacturing line (because there isn't one)
Quoted from flynnibus:Nah - cgc knows what they are doing with bringing a product to market. They don’t overlook such thing - they do however march to their own drum when it comes to delivery though.
CGC didn’t boast their facilities before either and their magic elves still made games. No reason to suspect anything nefarious about that
Never said it was nefarious...
Quoted from jfh:Unfortunately none of the pinball manufacturers are going to recognize his contribution to the industry. No patent; no contracts.
They never have....in the past JJP has tried to steal his designs, but their product was so bad I had to replace with a genuine Cliffy
Quoted from jfh:PPS Is there any update on the mirrored backglass? Are they still expected to ship this month?
My hope is they don't attempt to sell before CGC starts actually shipping games on a consistent basis. I for one don't have any interest in having a back glass sit in a box for months not knowing when I'll get my game. If that means I miss out than so be it
Quoted from jfh:Quite a few are presold. I’d rather have mine in my house and not a warehouse.
I hear ya, but at this rate u might have it in your house for a year
Quoted from Roostking:What does it matter, if you eventually get the pin?
I bought the carbon fiber hood for my Challenger before I even knew which color and which car I was getting.
Good for u!
Quoted from chillme:My MMRR was like this stock, really hard to hear the call-outs. Ended up replacing the speakers and it made a world of difference.
I've owned all the LE's including the original MMRLE. I'm not saying the sound system or speakers were the best (clearly they are not), but I've never heard a complaint or had a problem hearing the call-outs....this of course was in a home environment....
Quoted from pinballinreno:All of the CGC remakes have sounded incredible to me, compared to originals.
My AFMr sounds great after adjusting the subwoofer control, its in the settings...
They have done a great job.
Im certain that replacement speakers can give you another 2% to 5% improvement, to me its just not necessary.
Its a pinball game, not a high end stereo.
The source files are not super clean.
Totally agree....AFMRLE and MBRLE had improved sound over my MMRLE, but the MMR was perfectly fine. That being said I'm no audiophile
Quoted from oPinsesame:I just got an email from PPS saying my SE+ pre-order has been updated to an LE at no additional cost!
Very happy news.
I got same email although I was already in on an LE. It sounds like some are requesting their deposits back.
Quoted from indypinhead:That's what it sounds like to me.
I have a Rush Premium & CCR LE on order. For a while there, I was wondering which would come 1st for me....It sound like my Rush will get here 1st. No biggie. I know CGC makes a great pin...top notch quality. I'll be happy to wait until my time comes.
My guess is you'll get your Rush LE way before your CCRLE. The way things are going it might be xmas for CCRLE's?
Quoted from kapaun:Maybe canceling orders for scalpers/flippers?
Possibly some people had multiple orders with several distributors? i.e. most of these guys are flippers
Quoted from Jecco74:I just cancelled my LE order from planetary. Someone should move up the list
I don't blame u....probably be 6+ months before LE's get shipped. I waited a couple years for my MMRLE, but it was their first time out of the gate so it was understandable.
Quoted from beltking:Here is cc speaker cover. Company overseas makes them… eBay
[quoted image]
Its nice that this speaker panel is magnetic. Lets hope PPS comes up with the same concept
Quoted from flynnibus:he's gonna claim the gecko is copied
It's actually a good question. This hobby is full of creative individuals who make cool products that enhance many games. Why does he think its copy right protected?
Quoted from flynnibus:Default answer from PPS when you do something unlicensed. Really there are only minor elements there that don't look original and maybe they are even upon closer inspection. It's just PPS's default posture...
I think it's a stretch. Whats the difference between all the game blades that are made after market ? I have after market ones on MMR and MBR that use similar colors/themes, etc....
Quoted from jfh:And likely the correct one. Way to close to original art/design elements to pass muster though probably not worth the trouble to pursue an overseas party. I’d rather wait to see what PPS does.
I get there's a "likeness" , but he doesn't use a Williams or CC logo so its a stretch to claim any infringement .... guys have been making speaker decals, and game blades for BW games for years so not sure why its an issue now...maybe because "now" they plan to make one? This guys idea and design (mainly because its magnetic) is pretty nice.
Quoted from jfh:Well given the CGC backbox is metal it’s not a big design stretch to make it magnetic
I’ll wait to see what PPS come up with before I decide what, if anything, I put on my game. I’ve seen a few interesting ideas that might be nice but I’m not a big fan of mods for the sake of mods.
Time will tell...I'm sure PPS will start work on that particular mod tomorrow
Quoted from MrSanRamon:The one I saw on eBay was for the original only.
Robert
Quoted from jkashani:My condolences, quality takes time.
blockquote cite="#6829341">I ordered a Rush Premium last month and got it today. What games have taken over a year?
I think people are speculating that it will take CGC a year to deliver the CCRLE's....they might be spot on as it appears CGC is behind the eight ball
Quoted from RTS:PPS may have also received a discounted rate from CGC since they had CGC by the cojones with the licensing fees. It's PPS' way, or the highway.
I don't think I would ever pick PPS as a distributor either. They seem kind of sucky.
Ever try to buy a licensed part from them? If you need it, it's not in stock.
Sara at PPS is awesome....very responsive, and a great communicator. Personally I don't care for their BS with potential licensing issues. A prime example is the magnetic speaker cover (I ordered one). It was a great idea that they clearly didn't have, and I highly doubt it was on their drawing board.
I've never seen the details on their loyalty program. I wonder who makes PPS HD glass? Has anyone here used it?
Quoted from indypinhead:He does some really good stuff.....I wanted the MB & MM stuff, but I already have the mirrored backglasses.
I really like his art blades. It would have been nice if they offered the mirrored back glass with his design. I certainly don't need 2 translites sitting around the house. I wonder if PPS makes him pay a royalty ?
Quoted from Gbailey069:Anyone get any further information about production or deliveries of the LE's ?
CGC and distributors completely silent on the issue so its probably Q3 or Q4 at best
I just watched the CGC presentation, and I thought it was very informative and well done. It addressed many design improvements and also discussed why the game has been delayed so long. It's nice that they can admit designs problems, and put the effort into actually fixing them. My only complaint is why CGC didn't inform customers prior to TPF? I for one would have been fine with delays due to design challenges.
Quoted from Pinless:Can you share the design improvements and problems?
Drop targets, play field wear, sensors, etc.....
Quoted from transprtr4u:WTF ? ..... is there proof of this ?
Absolutely none... I highly doubt they'll get all the LE's out by October (which will be a year from their announcement). That being said its anyones guess since CGC doesn't communicate with their distributors or customers.
Quoted from jfh:Well, they communicate with my distributor …
An unfortunate side effect of the distributor model is that it’s easy to forget we aren’t Chicago Gaming’s customers, the distributors are.
Yes thats the excuse CGC uses to justify not communicating to customers. My 6-12 month comment was based on my experience with CGC during the "non covid" days. MMRLE -2 years (although it was their first remake so it was understandable), AFRLE -6 months, MBRLE - 5 months after announcement.....clearly I have no idea, but past experience tells me it will a long time before their done shipping LE's. From what I've heard at full capacity (in the past) they build about 50 games/week. So even if they started tomorrow it would be 4-5 months. My guess is the 6-12 month window is pretty accurate, but only time will tell
Quoted from Concretehardt:Ok so MMrEE (Emperor Edition) coming in 2023
No doubt! They'll either sell more "royals" or come up with another name. Most want the topper, large screen, RGB lighting, and powder coating. Although in my opinion the MMR and MBR toppers are pretty weak compared to the AFMRLE and CCRLE toppers
Quoted from jfh:With the possible exception of Spooky, they are the same as the other manufacturers. Go ask people who placed orders for Stern games over a year ago what delivery estimate they got from Stern.
If I order a high end Sony TV and it’s not available at my point of purchase I don’t expect Sony to tell me when it’s going to be produced or delivered.
Anyway, I’m just watching as others get their games. Whenever mine is ready, I’m good.
Really? I'd never order a high end TV and not have some idea on an expected delivery date That being said I'm not disagreeing with you i.e. pinball manufacturers. I hope I'm wrong, but I still stand by my 6-12 month delivery date on all the LE's With all your hard work on this topic I hope you get yours first !
Quoted from cooked71:Pretty sure they’ve said no more Royals. Only regular MMr’s being put back on the line.
I don't think they ever came out and said that, which is why Royals were never numbered. Its coming although they may call it something else
Quoted from MrMikeman:You've been given the link to CGC's statement that they would NOT make more Royals in the MMr thread. Yet you keep pushing your fake news on different threads. You can speculate all you want but stop pretending you haven't heard about no more Royals.
The post is here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/mmr-owners-club-all-things-mmr-discussed/page/87#post-5273926
The highlight is:
"We will be building 500 total Medieval Madness machines during this time. A limited amount of these will be manufactured as the Royal Edition with all the features installed at the factory. We will not be manufacturing the Royal Edition again. We are treating it like all of our Limited Edition games and only manufacturing them the one time."
Yes we KNOW you were pissed as an original LE buyer/owner that they were coming out with another better "limited" version. You've made your feelings known many times on that other thread. The Royals aren't numbered to appease folks like you that feel cheated somehow.
Personally I expect them to only make SEs in the next run and no classics. Whether they offer the topper or not remains to be seen. Other than the topper the only real difference between the SE and Royal is the shaker, powdercoat, and warranty anyway. They're all the same lol.
My Royal leaves tomorrow to make room for CCr (and a P3). MM was a grail game for me and I enjoyed it thoroughly during the 2 years I had it but I beat it fairly regularly now and it's just time to go.
You're smoking crack if you don't think CGC is going to sell another MMR without the topper, shaker, large screen, and RGB lighting....its by far their most profitable model with zero R & D costs....look what they did with CCRLE...they saw the demand for the topper and after launch decided to sell it to everyone who wanted it (never done that before). My point is CGC will now change course based on demand (good business), and the loaded MMR is clearly that. For the record I don't feel cheated at all as CGC did a great job of offering the upgrades to original LE owners.
Quoted from jfh:Anyone get an update from Planetary on the mirrored backglasses? Multiple emails to Rick have gone unanswered …
Not a word, but I'm all good with that because I probably won't get my LE for another 6+ months
Quoted from underlord:Patience this time around. Remember the Royal MMr timeline Amigo!
Yep....
Quoted from brian-allen:Hi everyone!
I'm odering another batch of the Cactus Canyon SideBlades I illustrated.
Already shipped a ton out and people seem really pleased with them.
If you'd like a set, you can order one here:
https://www.flylanddesigns.com/product-category/pinball-and-arcade-artwork/
THANK YOU!!!
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]
I wish CGC hired u to design the blades for the LE....
Quoted from jfh:They should start shipping very soon but it will it looks like it’ll take 6-7 months to build them all.
Quoted from NC_Pin:Lol- normally I wouldn’t care. As long as I have an some sorta idea when it will come. I have been waiting for a TBL for a year. I need to know about when I need to have spaces for games
** I did fix my typo in my original post!**
My guess is they should be done delivering by the holidays. Anyone telling you different has never purchased a game from CGC on launch date.
Quoted from tonyf1965:I got my final invoice November last year. Still no word from my distributor on my LE.
I would get a new distributor if he/she actually sent u a final invoice last November. You should have only had to pay the deposit. The only people who have heard from their distributors are the few that have been invoiced for their LE....CGC is know for making quality games, but is also known for massive delays with zero communication.
Quoted from Ballderdash:Typically used to protect the seller, but in this case it’s not a bad idea to protect the buyer (and guarantee the product ships...)
What is cash on delivery?
*Cash on delivery, or collect on delivery (COD), is a method of collecting payment that requires customers to pay for goods at the time of delivery.
*When their order arrives, the customer will pay the amount owed, usually to a shipping or logistics partner working with the supplier. After deducting any handling charges, the partner will then direct the funds to the supplier.
Sure it protects the distributor, but its egregious. Buyers should NEVER pay in full unless the game is ready to ship. Especially when its CGC who NEVER makes schedule, and CCRLE is a perfect example as its been a year and they haven't shipped a single game. The good news is u know CGC will deliver at some point. I like the COD method, but I doubt distributors would ever go for that.
Quoted from TheCnyPinGuy:My Distributor required 1/2 down
Not a huge deal but MANY games have come and gone that I could of enjoyed
But it landed me an LE slot so you need to weigh it out sometimes
I would get a new distributor....half down is total BS ..... next time go with PPS and put down the standard $1K
Quoted from TheCnyPinGuy:That was their standing policy so I really could comply or lose it to 100 other interested parties
Live n learn
I hear ya....my point was that their policy is pretty egregious. Sounds like they might have cash flow issues? Most are your typical $1K deposit .. i.e PPS
Quoted from Ballderdash:Are we sure this is the case and CGC’s lawyers aren’t working out a solution for a mid run price increase?
At this stage I wouldn't be surprised as many others have done the same thing although JJP honored the launch MSRP....Stern has not
Quoted from transprtr4u:Apparently and sadly there is no accountability in pinball ...
Give us your money ... shut up and wait!
True statement.....we all know that CGC wants to ship games, but something is really off this time around. They are by far the worst in the industry in getting games out the door. I think most would be sympathetic to their situation if CGC was transparent, but they have ZERO desire to communicate to distributors let alone customers.
Clearly CGC wants to drive revenue by shipping LE's, but just doesn't have the ability to meet schedule or get games out the door. Maybe they should realize their short comings and contract with Stern like they did with the original run of MMRLE's.....
Quoted from transprtr4u:this is interesting .....
RUMOR: Unexpected Company to Remake One of the World's Rarest Pinball Machines This Spring
It has been a couple of days since I had something noteworthy to write about here, so I was thrilled this morning when a mysterious tip came into the Knapp Arcade inbox. The message said the rare pinball machine with one of the most interesting backstories ever told, Capcom's Big Bang Bar (BBB), is currently being updated and reengineered with extended code by an unexpected company. A pre-production version of the game will supposedly be ready in March and revealed to the public in June of this year.
I have heard rumblings for a while now that Chicago Gaming Company (CGC) is going to remake Big Bang Bar. That rumor never really made a lot of sense to me because all of CGC's remakes so far have used the Bally / Williams license. If BBB is really coming out this spring / summer, it probably isn't from CGC. They still have their hands full trying to get out all of the ordered Cactus Canyon Remakes and I've heard from a very good source is that the company already has a single-level Pulp Fiction pinball machine ready to go next.
So if a Big Bang Bar remake is actually happening (and that's still a big if) and it's not being done by Chicago Gaming Company, then who is making it? A new company? An existing game manufacturer who doesn't normally make pins? Hmmmmm.
A remake of Big Bang Bar would be fantastic. You almost never see that game on location for the public to enjoy. If you follow Knapp Arcade here or on Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/KnappArcade/ or Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/knapparcade, you know that I have shared pictures of literally thousands of pinball machines that I've taken over the years. When I looked for some of my own pics of Big Bang Bar to use for this article there wasn't any. Not one. Now that's a rare game.
For those of you who aren't familiar with the story of Big Bang Bar or Capcom pinball, I wrote about both in an post here last spring. The tales of this machine and the company are some of the most fascinating in the history of pinball. Here's a link to that article if you want to check it out:
Porn and Punching Bags...The Collapse of Capcom Pinball
https://www.knapparcade.org/post/porn-and-punching-bags-the-collapse-of-capcom-pinball
So there's today's rumor. What do you think? Is Big Bang Bar a good game to remake and is this really happening? I think that a remake of BBB would sell well, especially if it's going to have expanded code. Whether it's really happening, time will tell. Has anyone else heard this?
Well the good news they will probably do a better job of getting games out the door. We all know how terrible CGC is at manufacturing and delays
Quoted from transprtr4u:because there were always rumours that it was to be done by CGC ...
The really good news is possibly theres a plan B for PPS to license games to another manufacturer to remake. CGC has really shit the bed on the CCR release, and have acted entitled and arrogant the entire way.....
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