I find it weird how a bunch of folks are getting worked up about things that are pure speculation. A few random anonymous pinside dudes say "They're going to sell LE toppers later" and everybody believes it and then starts ranting non-stop.

They didn't sell separate toppers with AFM and MB. They did with MM however that was a unique situation being the first game ever they made and wanting to make the same improvements/upgrades they offered on MB and AFM. Whatever. Relax and play a bit of pinball ffs.

How about we all wait and see what happens before going off on rants?

Based on their previous track record of games that initially released with a topper on the LE(AFM & MB) it's unlikely the toppers will be made available later.

Yep. Because a bunch of ppl are asking about it. They're saying don't bother us we'll tell you IF it happens. Did you read that paragraph?? There is absolutely NO indication it's likely. They're just saying IF it happens.

Hey I don't care either way. I'm a topper guy - all my games have them. If I was buying an SE then sure I'd love to get the topper. The MMr topper was 700 and all it had were some flashing lights. I'm guessing an animated topper like this would be more expensive. Then it'll be all the rants about how it's too expensive and a money grab (I remember the rants about the King of Payne topper).

I also read it as the removed doors being available later. Hey it could the topper or could be many other things who knows...

Of course then we'll get the LE owners all pissed off that they got the LE but it's an "incomplete" game and they should whatever upgrade for free. lol..

wishing for having time to evaluate a product and still have the best version available is .....

Unrealistic at this time unfortunately.

I had the same issue with the new car I just bought. I couldn't see or test drive the model/trim level I was looking to buy as there are none available due to manufacturing issues. I based my decision on the manufacturer's track record and previous personal experience and ordered it anyway. Took 4 months to get it.

I get what you are saying but unfortunately you are in the minority. Plenty of other people will gladly take a chance. It's a personal choice really.

While you see it as a bad business model I think CGC's business is doing quite well. They sell quality products at comparable prices to the other manufacturers.

Their offering of a limited version is no different than what Stern/JJP/Spooky/Haggis are doing.

OMG you made me spit my coffee through my nose!!

First of all Stern has made at least one other limited topper and that was Star Wars. And for the rest, Stern has NEVER produced enough toppers or other game specific add-on accessories in enough quantities to meet demand. EVER.

Just go on eBay and search pinball toppers. Flippers LOVE the Stern topper situation.

Never. They are making Special editions and limited editions. No standard/classic.

Doug_Duba

The loudest voices of dissent are not the majority. The quality build of my MMrRE and the very reasonable price point of CGC machines is what made me not hesitate to jump on board, not the possibility of owning a rare and valuable piece of plastic on top of the game.

Keep building awesome games and don't make us wait over a year for Lyman's upgrade!!

You’re confusing with Stern.

CGC usually builds classics first (none in this case), then the SEs, then the LEs.

However now with the SE+ who knows.

That matrix shows that the original incomplete code is included, as well as the completed as originally intended code (it’s the enhanced code). As JSC said it’s not listed anywhere what that entails exactly other than Bionic Bart mode and OK Corral modes are in. What those are isn’t clear yet.

What Josh & Lyman are working on is an add-on(software and hardware) that will essentially be CC 2.0. There is no info on what it is, any timeline or cost yet.

How dare you cloud the issue with logic and common sense!!!

The only folks that should be allowed this thread are the whiners(& flippers) that can only bitch and complain all the GD time.

Oh wait... It's already like that.. lol

That always makes me laugh.. The machines were assembled at W/B in those days but Churchill Cabinets(now CGC) were making the cabs and playfields. I think the reason for the "different feel" is the OGs are over 20 years old. Makes a difference comparing a brand spanking new machine to the same one but that's 20+ years old.

Let me dumb this down for you. Most pinball manufacturers are not multi billion dollar corporations.

Getting an influx of cash at the start of the production helps them stay afloat. Right now there is no easier way to get a bunch of quick deposits than to have a limited version that buyers have to get now or miss out.

LE deposits = 1250 x $1k = $1.25m of quick cash to buy the initial batch of parts for the assembly line.

It’s kind of like crowd funding.

Possibly. However scarcity is what primarily drives fomo.

I believe they didn’t offer the classic because they had to write new dots for it(to complete code and new modes) and doing them for the regular dmd is a ton more work and may have been impractical. Seems they used the hi res of their large display for the shootout video mode. Also their classics probably don’t sell as well or as much as the SE and LE.

Just pure speculation on my part. I tend not to believe in conspiracy theories.

I like yours too! Who the hell could turn down a NIB at $6k.

Seems like 20 years ago doesn’t it…

I believe CGC does not screen print. They silkscreen as was traditionally done. This probably explains why their pfs seem more resilient to chipping and loss of artwork when compared to other manufacturers including CPR.

However there were some early LEs that were built by Stern under contract. Maybe those pf are printed?

ummmm... not quite. Silkscreening is done in layers with dithering. I visited Stern back in the day when they were still silkscreening their own playfields and also CPR when they first started. I've seen it first hand. It takes many layers to get all the colors down and each layer has to dry before the next one is applied. Long and tedious.

From what I was told screen printing is basically an inkjet printer. I think it's 1 pass and done. Screen printing is cheaper and faster which is why most manufacturers changed to that method. Oh and you get nicer photo realistic artwork. Only problem is lifts with the clearcoat.

From a non-expert point of view is would seem like there's an adherence issue with the ink with the newer process. It sticks to the clearcoat much more than it sticks to the playfield.

If you look at the streamed video (guy changing the settings at the start) from yesterday it doesn't look like it's an emulation layer like the previous games. It's not the WPC menu yet they are changing what used to be regular WPC settings. Seems like a new OS altogether.

Also the new dots were not converted to "classic" DMD so you'd have nothing on the display for a bunch of things.

Yeah I was thinking direct print.

They could do that for all the remakes (SE & LE). Create a 2.0 enhanced game. Cost of the upgrade is the software + new CGC main board. They could probably sell it for $1000-$1500 if it really enhances the game a lot.

Obviously those with classic editions or MMrLE would need to get the XL display/speaker panel too.

MB would definitely be the remake to benefit the most from enhanced code with a bit more depth.

Thanks so much for the description!!! I was definitively talking about the digital printing as being possibly problematic with adherence/compatibility issues. Or so it would seem... Love the quality product of CGC - even though I only have the MMrRE for now.

BTW your participation in this thread is so appreciated.

The original AND completed come with the game. Lyman and Josh are working on NEW code (think 2.0).

Not completed. No indication on cost. No estimated date for availability.

May I suggest learning to use the search within a thread feature of Pinside. There are 2 very active threads about CCr right now.

Using this you would find out that it's likely to be a complete re-write BUT they haven't decided anything yet. They are still working on the plan. It may be software only or could be software AND hardware. Once again they haven't decided yet. Obviously they don't have a price or ETA either. One thing we DO know is they got the "rights" to the Cactus Canyon Continued code so they may use some ideas from it or they may not.

Given CGC's ability to keep things pretty secret we likely won't find out anything until it's ready for release.

Makes sense.. That's probably the discussion they are having about project scope.

https://patinapowdercoat.com/

Well if you have read every comment as you claim then you'd realize your question is probably 6-12 months premature since even CGC doesn't know how far they will take this yet.

It's not a simple question. It's a question that nobody can answer at this point, not even Doug_Duba !!!

Ummm not quite… they made the SE+ so that the ppl who complained about missing out on the Topper could put their money where their mouth is..

Nobody has claimed to be sold out of se+ so what exactly is your complaint about?

Pretty sure you'll have to wait for someone who streams to get theirs. With only 2-3 prototype machines out in the wild in commercial locations I can't imagine a streamer bringing all his gear and getting the OK to set up.

They want to avoid the douchebags oops I mean the scalpers by selling directly to the verified owners.

The number of non-owners buying the backglass would be pretty high just like with stern toppers and other accessories or even the LEs themselves. All about flipping for a quick buck.

I for one applaud PPS' attempt at controlling/limiting that bs.

CGC has posted in this thread about Lyman and Josh working on it but that they hadn't determined the scope yet. That there *COULD* be physical aspects in addition to software. Folks here just started assuming it was the saloon doors. As has been also mentioned, the prototype saloon doors required the playfield to be routed differently so it's not likely to happen. It could be as basic as a new translite to accompany the new code.

Nobody really knows except maybe some folks at CGC. Anything else is pure speculation.

Seems like people did it for BoP 2.0 and now Funhouse 2.0

BINGO!!

I don't expect LEs to ship until late spring into summer TBH based on previous CGC performance.

I'd be shocked if ANY of the SEs ship before Xmas regardless of what CGC said at the shows.

Hopefully Planetary will figure something out for the Canadian buyers. It would be pretty stupid to ship from CPR(Canadian East cost) to PPS(US West coast) and then BACK to Canada. There are only 2 official distros here up north. Both have representation in the US (Player One and Nitro). Please tell me that something is going to get worked out... Lookin at you PPS

Based on my previous CGC experience my guess is none, zilch, nada.

Awesome quality. Crappy punctuality.

I really hope to get proven wrong though!!!

Yep and it's funny they are a couple of weeks behind on the line that just started a few weeks ago anyway.

Yes we get it. You find the game dull and repetitive which incidentally is how you come across as well. This is the hype thread. Ppl here are excited about getting the game. You obviously aren't getting it so why do you even troll here.. oops I mean lurk

Or hasn’t bought a CGC game before lol. I received my MMrRE 5-6 months later than they had announced. And no updates either lol.

If Doug_Duba is smart he will stay the hell away from this thread for now.

Past experience has shown this:

- PINSIDE: "Please give us an update on the delay"

- CGC: "Waiting on a few parts that are delayed, production is still going but games cannot leave until complete"

- Pinside: "What's the part? Can you tell when it will arrive? Can it be made in the US? Where is it now? Who makes it? etc etc etc"

- CGC: "We don't know when it will arrive"

- Pinside: "Can you not ship the games as-is and then ship whatever part was missing after?"

etc. etc. etc.

It's pointless and never ending. All the armchair CEOs would keep chiming in on how they would run the company better blah blah blah..

If they had an estimate they would provide it. It might be counter-intuitive to some anxious members here but by being silent they actually avoid so many more pointless questions/suggestions and they can focus on building what they can while they wait. If you are uncomfortable with the wait you can just cancel. Otherwise you will get you machine when it's ready, like the rest of us!

Pounding the desk with your fist and claiming to deserve an update given the amount of money you are about to spend is ridiculous. It costs the same to all of us. Oh and there's a wait list of people ready to jump in the queue if someone wants to back out.

Just breath.

Sooo..

Only the deposit was to be paid to confirm your purchase.

Even though full payment was not only not necessary and actually against CGC policy you CHOSE to do it. And somehow now that makes you entitled to complain about having made full payment and not knowing where your money is.

Gotcha.

You don't need Doug_Duba for an update.

We all know the update they *would* tell us: "Sorry guys we are having a supply chain issue. Games are still being built as much as possible until we get "the part". We don't have an estimate unfortunately given the shipping backlog at our ports of entry. As soon as we get the part we will let everyone know that their games are shipping soon."

And we'd be back to square one with not knowing when we get our games and many pinsiders would be bitching on how CGC should have planned better and/or clamoring for more details because it's a lot of money they will be spending and they HAVE TO KNOW!

Let's agree to disagree. Go to the MMr thread from Oct 2019 until June 2020. Same complaints and redundant whining about CGC being late and silent and folks wanting updates. When they did get an update from CGC it made things even worse with more whining and questions and dumb-ass suggestions.

Those of us who actually have bought a NIB CGC game previously have seen this before. It didn't ruin our lives. We eventually all got our games and life goes on. I get the excitement. An update to say "we don't know when they will ship" is pointless. We already know that.

Short memory then? This exact thing happened with the Royal Edition. Topper parts were missing. CGC would not ship the games incomplete.

Same here. I play my games. They are not ornaments or bragging objects.

The previous MMR run was actually 500. 355 Royals, and the balance was Classics and Special Editions.

Paranoia is running rampant with the older crowd lol

Yes SIR

BTW I'm pretty sure I qualify as elder... I'm past the half century mark. I'm just not afraid of technology yet

I'm sure it's gonna happen sooner than later though!!

P.S. (just in case some folks get easily offended) My paranoia comment was totally tongue-in-cheek. Just trying to have a bit of fun since there's nothing to do but wait lol.

Thank you for taking the time to post here in this obviously difficult time for Lyman's friends & family. While he was a true artist(and not just a coder) and will never be replaced, I am sure you and the CGC team will find a way to finish the project in a way that will honor his memory.

Yeah because if they had to re-drill every pf it would create a delay in production…. Hmmmm..

I predict June. Yes 2022 lol

You can play that game with any new hybrid car as well… way more money.. same game.

Let's hope the gap between shipping SEs and LEs isn't as big as it was with the last MMr run. The SEs were out at Xmas (Dec/Jan) but the Royals didn't ship until May. There was a 3-4 month gap and the whining on the thread was out-of-control again after the intial joy of seeing SEs ship...

If it's anything like the last MMr release there can be quite a large gap between the SE and LE. As in 3-4 months.. I hope not.

Pinball Arcade - Although you cannot buy Wms/Bly tables anymore as they lost the licence.

Sort of. Point number 3 has had no info given out about it. There could be nothing of CContinued. Nobody but Josh knows. In any case it was always to be had at a later date and was never purported to be ready at launch, regardless of the passing of Lyman RIP.

IIRC This was one of the LE Prototypes that was used for the reveal. It's been out in the wild since then. Not a production LE.

I thought that CGC had stated they would not be making a classic edition.

FYI the RGB GI is user selectable in the settings. You can turn it into the boring and unimaginative warm white of the 90's if you so choose.

I also find it funny that you should choose an avatar from that movie. You say "clown puke GI" but I don't think you know what that means... There are many examples of clown puke GI here on Pinside but I disagree that controlled RGB GI that matches gameplay should be categorized as clown puke, especially that 90% of the time it's just white.

Most that are getting upgraded probably placed their order right when it was announced in Oct 2021.

Royals were a 1 time deal as announced by CGC at the time. You can get the special edition though. Unless you are looking at the used market.

Is it possible? Sure - nothing is impossible. Is it likely? Probably not.

This has been discussed so much in the MMr thread. MM was a special case because their top end model wasn't up to par with the other remakes they produced. Hence the Royal, which pissed off a lot of LE owners because now essentially you have a version that's way more limited than the LE and it looks nicer and has more bling, to match the other LEs. This led to them offering the upgrade parts/kits in order to appease their loyal customer base (LE owners).

When they produced the Royal CGC posted in the Pinside thread that they would build as many as had been ordered but this was a one time deal and it would not be produced again.

Could they eventually come up with a v2.0 of all their remakes?? Sure.. why not? IMHO I think that this too is very unlikely given the current work being done on releasing a non-remake game or games, as well as possibly more remakes. If anything I think we are more likely to see some sort of paid software upgrade on the other remakes like CCr will be getting with the Lyman/Josh code expansion. CGC will probably wait to gauge interest in the expanded code for CCr and then decide if they should offer it for the other remakes.

Obviously other than that CGC post about the Royal being a 1 time deal, most of this is just my opinion.

You've been given the link to CGC's statement that they would NOT make more Royals in the MMr thread. Yet you keep pushing your fake news on different threads. You can speculate all you want but stop pretending you haven't heard about no more Royals.

The post is here: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/mmr-owners-club-all-things-mmr-discussed/page/87#post-5273926

The highlight is:
"We will be building 500 total Medieval Madness machines during this time. A limited amount of these will be manufactured as the Royal Edition with all the features installed at the factory. We will not be manufacturing the Royal Edition again. We are treating it like all of our Limited Edition games and only manufacturing them the one time."

Yes we KNOW you were pissed as an original LE buyer/owner that they were coming out with another better "limited" version. You've made your feelings known many times on that other thread. The Royals aren't numbered to appease folks like you that feel cheated somehow.

Personally I expect them to only make SEs in the next run and no classics. Whether they offer the topper or not remains to be seen. Other than the topper the only real difference between the SE and Royal is the shaker, powdercoat, and warranty anyway. They're all the same lol.

My Royal leaves tomorrow to make room for CCr (and a P3). MM was a grail game for me and I enjoyed it thoroughly during the 2 years I had it but I beat it fairly regularly now and it's just time to go.

BTW Large screen and RGB is already part of the SE package. As I posted above the SE and RE are the same except for the topper (which is offered separately anyway), the powdercoat which anyone can do, and the warranty. Totally expect to see an SE+ offered on the next run. Just like CCr.

I have the mirror blades on 2 games (Royal and SW Prem) and I really like the look. Brightens the game without add-on spots or pinstadiums. It depends on the game for me. Wouldn't want it on my other games.

Not sure about the "prestige" thing. I only bought the Royal because it had the extra stuff I would've bought anyway. Didn't cost more than getting the game then the add-ons. Win-win for me. Oh and I liked the free powdercoat on it although it looks plain black in most settings. You need bright lighting to see the sparkle effect.

That question gets asked every 2-3 days and the response is always the same. Read the FAQ:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/cactus-canyon-remake-club-new-sheriffs-in-town#post-6777875

The problem with this has been brought up over and over again, mostly by jfh .

Voicing your displeasure here on Pinside does nothing. This is a pinball enthusiast forum. CGC doesn't come here and read this stuff all the time or don't feel like they need to respond here. They have occasionally responded here but it's a rare thing.

What jfh is trying to say is you need to voice your displeasure at your distributor, who will then voice their displeasure to CGC if enough complaints come in. Then maybe we'll get an update?

Someone should make a poll thread with "Who do we think will remake BBB".

After looking at the layout my vote goes to Multimorphic... It can be done with their platform and it would be completely unexpected.

Because it doesn’t own it. CGC does.He is one of the designers and he has the latest WIP version. It’s not for release.

It’s like asking Keith Elwin to release his latest beta he is working on. He doesn’t own that, Stern does.