Just jumped in on an SE from Joe at PinballStar! Super hyped!!

Of course I'll have to add the shaker and Art blades asap.

This 100%. I'm personally sick of games that you need a damn PHD to know the rules. Yeah yeah yeah, longevity, last ability etc.... I'm not a competition level player, what good does it do me to have a game that's so deep and so complex that I'll never get to see the end wizard modes? I know, play better, hahaha ha! But seriously, I enjoy games that are deep enough to challenge me, but I also like to be able to see everything the game has to offer. Look at my collection. I have a couple very deep machines, and some pretty simple ones. It's good to mix it up, but I personally don't want another brutally complicated game. So, for C.C. remake, I love the theme, I love the animations and callouts, plus it's just fun. So yeah, this fool and his money were easily parted with an SE. I plan to fully enjoy it.

Is the powder coat on the LE just plain black? I can't tell from the pics I've seen.

Gotcha, gun metal grey seems appropriate for the title

Huh. When LTG described it as kind of a translucent gunmetal grey, I thought it sounded pretty cool. Now that I'm seeing a close up pic, I'm not really digging it. Looks kind of like grey primer in this picture. Maybe it will look better in person.

Genuine question here. Were the deposits on previous CGC titles refundable or did that depend on which distributor you ordered from? I'm asking because on CCr, most distributors I'm seeing are requiring a $500 deposit NON refundable. That could potentially cut down on people bailing out.

So, the Lyman code is not included? It's being sold at additional cost sometime in the future? This front CGC website led me to believe it was included.

Screenshot_20211101-140742_Samsung Internet (resized).jpg

I agree. Charging for updated/new code is pretty upsetting. However, if the new Lyman code makes the game overly complicated, they can keep it. No thanks.

It's definitely a fair guess and seems probable. But, some concrete answers from CGC would be nice with people chomping at the bit.

Apparently Keith Elwin has a differing opinion

Screenshot_20211101-164449_Samsung Internet (resized).jpg

Email I recievd from PinballStar said SEs start shipping in "November and onwards"

My two cents regarding the LE situation is this, make 1 game. Make it the best game you can offer to the market. Build as many as demand dictates, and sell the hell out of em. In this market, why bother with a lower trim level.
Says the guy who actually ordered an SE

I'd like to hear some info straight from CGC regarding this possible future release of extra new improved code for a fee. I'm not a fan of that idea. We're already paying near 10k for the machine. Code updates should be gratis.

Topper.

There, I felt like I had to say that

Not to poop on the parade, but man, the SE is still a great game!! I think the standard brushed hardware looks great, playfield is only missing a couple small toys that do nothing (and modders will reproduce), shaker is a $100 upgrade, Art blades will be made available for around $75. The only real hangup here is a topper. If you missed out on an LE, wait for the secondary market once this cools off, or buy an SE, get it sooner, and play like there's no tomorrow.

I'm with you on the topper thing, but you're stone cold crazy on the display. That oversize HD color DMD looks phukin' awesome! I love that CGC offers them.

Man, this thread has turned from hype into page after page of bitching about toppers. Wtf? I guarantee someone over at CGC has muttered the phrase "bunch of ungrateful crybabies". The topper does not "make the game" for God's sake. And as far as the warranty, how many of you will actually keep the damn game that long before moving on to next shiny blinged out game with a fancy topper? I think I'll step aside now and wait for my final payment invoice to show up. Holy shit! Where's the Tylenol!

Does anyone know if art blades designed for the original cactus canyon will fit properly inside the remake? Are the cabinets made to the exact same dimensions? I ask because Tilt Graphics has some I like better than the LE version.

I think think the stainless armor looks better than what I've seen of the powder so far. I may stand corrected on that once better pics surface. And, the apron isn't wooden. I believe it is a thin wood overlay on top of a standard metal apron. Again, I may need correcting on that. 2 year warranty? I bet half these LEs won't last 6 months in their original owners posession.

Jesus.... seriously folks? This is why scalpers keep scalping. Took less than 24 hours

Screenshot_20211102-154101_Samsung Internet (resized).jpg

Yes, they said SE starts shipping November and "onwards"

First off, I don't care 1 bit about toppers. Fuck em'. However, with the LE vs.SE topper debate going on, there's this already available.... for those SE owners who do actually care about a topper. Adjustable LED lit, and pretty nice. Just an option.

Screenshot_20211102-223811_Samsung Internet (resized).jpg

EXACTLY. This is a hype thread. And bottom line is this:

CGC WILL DO WHATEVER THEY ARE GOING TO DO. NO AMOUNT OF WHINING OR BITCHING WILL CHANGE THAT. REPEATING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER WILL NOT CHANGE THAT.

May as well sit back and wait and talk about the amazing fact that many people will now be able to enjoy a once very very rare game. Thank you CGC!!

I agree with 99% of what you're saying here. Unfortunately, as long as there are clowns lining up willing to pay a 5k additional premium like the LE that sold yesterday, manufacturers can pretty much get away with anything. Their business model won't matter.

Now, let's get some folks in there, play the heck out of it, and come back here to report EXACTLY how the God Blessed topper is integrated into the game in an unbiased review. Maybe if we get some honest feedback on its functionality, some people here can cool their jets.

Here we go again.....

2 new LE sale/trade ads this a.m. Goodmorning, and welcome to flipper / scalper / opportunistic douchebaggery at it finest!

Being wishy washy on this one when they were very clear on MM may be a pretty good indicator that they'll be made available.

Thank you. Well spoken.

Gonna be a long 2 days, huh....lol. Then guess what happens. Regardless of the decision, people will go right on complaining if their preference wasn't chosen. I can't wait until they actually start shipping, so an owners thread can be formed and leave toppergate in the dust.

The only known dates so far is SEs start shipping this month, LEs in January. That's it.

Lol, I knew it. Doug makes a fine statement, and says we will have a final decision within 48 hours. Yet, here we are still sounding like a bunch of whining know it all children. Upset about an option on a $9k luxury adult toy. Chill out folks and you will have your answer in 2 days per CGC.

But it's not just chatting. People were actually debating on the validity of a class action lawsuit! Good luck with that. Nothing has been said in the last several pages that hasn't already been said multiple times. It's far past the point of chat, and has hit the level of whining. Hence , my comparison to spoiled children.

Valid point....lol. Vent-chat. I like it.

From the roughly hour long video of gameplay I saw on YouTube from Cary Hardy, it appears that way. Yes. It looks to me like when the player enters shoot out mode, that's when the topper activates. On the playfield, your ball is trapped by either the left or right flipper, some animations occur on the DMD, one of four targets on the playfield pop up representing the bad guy you shoot for. The player then has a few seconds to hit the target. While that is happening below, the guy on the topper moves a little, then raises his gun like he's aiming. If the player hits the drop target, the topper guy shakes a bit like he got shot. That's all that was apparent. I never saw the windows light up or anything like that even though it's obvious they will do something eventually. Perhaps the topper at expo wasn't 100% functional?

I was speaking with a vendor on the phone the other day and he implied that CGC had their own milling/woodworking facilities that were massive. He used the description of 2 football fields as comparison. I think CGC is larger and has more going on than many people are aware of. Myself included. Maybe LTG can correct me if I have misspoke, but thats what I was told during a casual conversation with an authorized CGC reseller.

Careful now... I was scolded earlier for making a strikingly similar observation.

Besides, screw toppergate. NOW THIS IS AN INTERESTING READ!!

https://www.pinballnews.com/learn/churchill/index.html

Hey, here's an idea. Let's all argue about it some more. That will fix everything.

Has anyone here ever heard the phrase "agree to disagree"? Well, that's where we are now. No one here is going to change anyone's mind. In a day or so, CGC will make their decision and everyone can decide how they want to deal with that decision. Until then, there's really nothing to say that hasn't been repeated 10x over already.

Couldn't. Saying they could care less implies they do, in fact, care to some degree.

I'm in for an SE. If CGC does sell the topper separately, I'm not interested anyway. It's a mini game that highlights a bad guy and you press the flipper buttons to shoot. Ummmmm, that's what everyone is in an uproar about? Where are the usual comments about flow and breaking up gameplay? I've not played the mini game obviously, but it certainly seems like a huge break in gameplay that would get old very quickly. I'm more interested in what's going on on the playfield and what Lyman does with the optional new code.

Since you are one of a handful of people who have played it (or at least seen it function in person) can you elaborate on how the mini game is implemented? Is it hard to achieve, or repetitive? If it was a selectable feature on your machine, would you disable it? That sort of stuff. I'm sure everyone here would love some clarity on this.

Thank you for the explanation. That's about what I thought. I can most definitely live without it. Lol. The topper is quite nice visually though.

I posted this a couple days ago, but this thread moves so fast, I'll say it again. If you're in for an SE, don't care for the mini game topper (and the possible high cost), but you would like something pretty to cap off your game, Laseriffic already has you covered for less than $200.

Screenshot_20211105-131219_Samsung Internet (resized).jpg

Paul8788, let me introduce you to Cooked 71. I think you 2 have something you can help each other out with.

Bullshit.

Then get a refund for fucks sake

Well, you aren't gonna get the deal you agreed to. Period. That should be apparent by now. So, you are left with 2 choices. Get a refund, or continue bitching incessantly.

For fucks sake

In all of this bickering, here's a fact I havnt seen anyone mention yet. Maybe I overlooked it, but I don't think so. So, here goes. In the collectors market, ANY collectors market, be it cars, guns, pinballs, etc... A Limited Edition is just that. A limited edition. There are only 1250 in this case. An SE with a topper and powder coat, and aftermarket mods, STILL ISNT AN LE. No matter how much it may resemble one, it isn't. Period. And, later on down the road if someone is looking to purchase an LE for their collection, they don't want a look alike, they want the real deal. So, you LE guys worried about resale value or rarity have nothing to fear. The fact of the matter is there are still only 1250 true CCr LEs in existence, and they will hold their value in the marketplace.

Nope, these LE guys are loaded and obsessive. They will pay whatever the market dictates or more for a true LE. "SE+ with all the upgrades included? Nonsense, that's a peasants pinball, I must have the LE"
You know I'm right.

See, downvotes...lol. Truth sucks huh...

Still, take the refund, or take the pin. That's your choices. Or I guess you could hire an attorney...

I guess I'll sit back forget this mess, and maybe revisit it in a year or so. You know, when CCr LEs are selling for the same price as an SE+. Because they didn't hold their value at all. Yeah, right....

But how, it won't have any value since it's essentially not Limited anymore?

No need to apologize, I know it's true. And I never played a class warfare card. Anyone able to spend the money we do on toys should consider themselves fortunate. You are proving the simple fact I was trying to make. The LE is limited to 1250 machines and a true enthusiast or collector who wants one will do what they need to do to acquire one. They don't want a look alike or a lesser version. Therefore, my point was, the LE guys really shouldn't be worried about diminished value or exclusively. Their LE is still 1 of 1250, regardless of other models released by CGC.

I can agree with that. With the way this market is though, I bet zero value is lost.

More exclusive in the fact that there were 1250 toppers, now there are more toppers, sure. But, there are still only 1250 LE machines, and they will command LE prices on resale. Fact.

Imagine this scenario 8 months down the road once these machines are being sold for whatever reason.

You open up pinside marketplace and there's a guy trying to sell his SE+. He's powder coated the armor, added art blades etc... He's asking the going rate for a nice used LE saying "it's basically the same as an LE".

Are you going to pony up LE price if you're a potential buyer? Of course not. It's still not an LE. That's all I'm saying.

Don't forget, this particular LE is now tarnished and devalued due to the SE+ debacle. Better unload it now while it still holds a bit of worth.

Lol, thank you. And no hard feelings man. I just think in a year or more the LEs will still be as good as gold regardless of what CGC does. You've been around long enough to know this market.

On new releases, I first and foremost consider the Theme, look at the available options and associated price points, decide if the game looks fun, etc., then decide on the purchase that's best for me and my family. Never once, at any time do I consider resale value or rarity. My personal experience is, if you do this, you'll not be disappointed by events that are out of your control.

Edit: dealers not contacting customers when they were supposedly on a list is definitely unfortunate and out of one's control.

Nah, they'll be arguing about who gets what machine. Not because of value, but because of the fun/favorites factor.

This may be an unpopular sentiment, but I really hope the Lyman code isn't deep to the point of confusion. Part of the charm of the Bally Williams era games to me is the humor, artwork, and the fact that the games are simple enough that an average player can figure out the rules and modes given some time. The games were challenging enough to keep me coming back, but winning was achievable once in a while. Yes, I have a few very deep pins, and when friends ask " well, how do I do this or that?" I usually know the answer, but sometimes I just admit ignorance because the game is too damn deep. JP for example. Have I ever completed escape nublar? Hell no, never even gotten to it. Certainly never going to see the When Dinosaurs Ruled the Earth mode. Why? It's too convoluted and difficult for an average player to do. Great game, but futile. So, for me, it would be great if the Lyman code had some enhancements, or polish on the original code, and definitely throw in some features from CCC. I'd definitely pay for that. Make it too complicated, and I'll skip it.

TOPPER!!

Yes, my thoughts exactly. I would, however, love some things from CCC thrown into the mix to spice it up. And from what I've heard, that sounds like a possibility.

Wow, this is something I somehow overlooked. Awesome!! This information makes toppergate look especially ridiculous.

Uh oh, let's not get this going again....

If the backglass ships separately, you can take that old translight, frame it, even backlight it, and boom, wall art issue solved. Win win win!!

I'm definitely going to want one, and my distributor has been near impossible to reach lately. Not complaining, I'm sure they're crazy swamped with anxious customers. However, lately with pinball, all distributors are almost always busy. So, yeah, I too would eventually like to know if I can get a backglass elsewhere if needed.

I would never put one on ANY machine unless it was an old classic with Playfield wear that I wanted to prevent from getting worse. Like others said, they change the feel of the play, and eventually they wear out and look awful. I feel they're a waste of time and money on modern machines.

For what it's worth, Joe at PinballStar is aware of the backglass and shaker upgrades. I recieved an email days ago asking that anyone wanting these items, please let him know so he can get an allotment.

Edit: Let him know if you want the upgrades IF you have a CCr ordered through HIM.

Here's what I got on Nov.27th from PinballStar. Please note, this email applies ONLY if you have a standing order/deposit with them.

Screenshot_20211201-155105_Email (resized).jpg

They were originally announced to start shipping in November. I'm not complaining, just stating a fact

Is this a request or something you saw??

Yeah, that's about the 4th promotional spot they've thrown up on FB. I keep being a smart-ass and commenting "Nice! Now when do they start shipping?"

Why does this discussion make me want to bring up the TOPPERS again.... LOL.

On the subject of LEs and Collectors, I run with a group of old school pinheads here in Knoxville, who own many machines in their own collections. And they personally laugh at the idea of someone who runs out and buys every LE offered calling themselves a collector. One of my friends said not too long ago: "you know what I can tell about someone whos collections consist entirely of brand new LE games? They have more money than sense". His words, not mine. But, it got me thinking, if all a person is interested in is the exclusivity appeal of the LEs, are they really a pinball enthusiast? Or just swinging their wallets around for everyone to see? I dunno. I've bought NIB, and obviously am doing it again (SE), but my true love of pinball are the late solid state and early DMD titles I grew up with in arcades. I enjoy finding a deal on a players machine and fixing it up. Anyway, I digress. I'm grateful for the growth in the industry, but also saddened by the direction this hobby has taken. To credit my old pinball friends, it's definitely apparent that there is a portion of new pinball "collectors" with very deep pockets that will continue to fuel this LE frenzy. Whew..... that's about it I guess.

I personally don't care who spends money on what. I bought a GnR LE new for the same reason you said. That was the version I wanted. Sorry, I didn't mean to infer that only people with money buy LEs. My main point was that there are definitely people with very deep pockets willing to pay well over MSRP sight unseen for new LE games. And that in large part is what's driving the price insanity.

Bingo, lol. That's what I was trying to convey.

I'm so glad they put the die cast metal train on both models. That's a very cool move on CGCs part. I will definitely be awaiting the mod community coming up with the train tracks for the SE. Everything else on the LE I can pass on, although that apron sure is purdy!!

In fact, I'd be willing to bet one could probably make the train track mod themselves pretty easy with actual model railroad track from someplace like Hobby Town.

Yeah, that's definitely at odds with the information provided by CGC.

That, and the fact that it was stated that the SEs would begin shipping in Novenmer and December.

Unfortunately there is no rumored eta. There are complete and total guesses based on past cgc delivery times, but they're just that. Guesses. My guess on LEs would be summer 2022 based on others guesses

Train tracks for the SE is really all I care to add.

I'm in this camp also. He's a very talented artist, no doubt. But sometimes that style just doesn't flow with the machine. Fish Tales for example.

I've already ordered and received these from Tilt Graphics. I think the artwork looks very fitting to the game. They have a couple other choices as well.

Screenshot_20220105-074412_Samsung Internet (resized).jpg

I already have them in my posession. If the remake has larger bolt holes, I'll take an Exacto knife to them once installed.

Hey, I know, let's talk about TOPPERS!!!

WORD!

Yeah, I do believe I'm done here. I'm going to remove this from favorites and just wait for posts to appear in the tentative owners thread.

So, JFH, you better keep me updated!!

What's the channel name?? Don't be ashamed to promote it a bit. I had no idea you had a channel.

Same, I even offered to pay. My distro allowed me to pay in full for my machine, but said he wanted to wait for payments on the backglass and shaker.

Why does the Bugs bunny backglass seem to say "Elvira parties at hot shots arcade" in the score windows???

Holy shit man.....

If this holds up, that's excellent news! I ordered my SE the very day I got the release announcement email, and paid in full about 3 weeks ago. (No invoice was issued, just my choice to pay up). I'd love to get a confirmation from my distributor.

Correct, but I believe TripleC is asking if the completed code feels noticeably different or polished to someone who has played the title on old unfinished code. Personally I can't answer because I've never played one.

So, I'll assume that Daudioguy is David Thiel? Pardon the possible ignorant question.

Don't get me wrong, I'm still super pumped up to get my SE, but I'm going to have to see that color integrated GI in person to decide whether I keep it color, or go with the old school clear setting. A couple of those pics look pretty overwhelming, GI wise.

Let's get these unboxing pics on over to the official owners thread where they belong people.

I've never owned a cgc remake before, but, yes. That's my understanding, and I've read others posts about it many times here.