No, i dont see it.
I see it from the aspect of the game is crap, then you lure people in, forcing them to act fast, since otherwise they will miss it.

It´s interesting to discuss though.

Honestly i think afmrLE would have sold a lot more game on the total if it was unlimited.
If a game is great it will sell great. The only downside is that it might take longer.
A business/hobby isnt kept alive with bad limited games. What keep it alive is great games and alot of enthusiastic supporters.

The reason why this is highlighted now is because cgc hasn´t balanced LE vs SE the way JJp and Stern has done.

They have the approach of CE/LE beeing the exclusive luxury version and the LE(jjp)/premium as the best buy.

For CGC the LE is both best buy and luxury in the same. Which will rub everybody left outside the wrong way and will also limit their total number of games sold.

Everyone needs to understand that all buying parties are right in many ways to how they feel (le buyers, se buyers and seplus buyers) this whole situation falls on cgc's shoulders.

SE and SE plus buyers pissed that they have to pay the same price as the LE. But hey, whenever manufacturers make a limited product if you miss the opportunity they should just make more right? Sure only a few but again SE plus doesn't please everyone. I have also noticed a lot of people encouraging to cancel so they can have their spot.

LE buyers were the first to get behind the game and place deposits. And now there game is not as unique and limited as they have come to expect from cgc. Why?? Because they bought all the other machines and were promised they could always get there serial number matched and that there game had certain LE features. Buy hey, they didn't have Doug's back for speaking up on this. I know they are terrible people for speaking up about this.

I personally see everyone's point as valid (even cgc) but hey that's why they had 2 years to figure this out. And I haven't gone around calling names. Just being told I'm a pos for voicing my displeasure on this. MBut it is funny seeing people call people names and categorized as this or that for speaking to their displeasure. All the while being encouraged by pinsiders and cgc to just go a head and cancel so somone else can get the game. Totally forgetting that these buyers bought all their other LE"s so yeah not going to cancel.This is beyond pathetic and again pinside's greatest strength. Get off your horse and see others perspectives.

Piss poor show cgc and pinside. Thanks for dividing our already small but growing hobby. And now after speaking with cgc I have a bad feeling that future LE games will be 12k. Win win guys

LYMAN!! I am passing on to you the request from iceman44 that this game now needs a “Pineapple” mode!!

yea how about an interactive thing where we shoot pineapples of the fence posts or something

Oh look at that - the showdown IS a video mode and DOESNT require the topper to play . So SE buyers who were worried about not getting a complete game were actually just bitching about not getting a topper .

iknow, i know the heart wants what the heart wants. i get it now.

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1) because you didn’t get anything or stuck with anything. If you don’t like the future outlook just walk away
2) anyone thinking LE are going to be worth lots of money and are stressed more about that than what oinball game they got are toxic
3) thinking this was going to be a gold mine because of exclusivity is naive given the past history of new editions everywhere

It boils down to if you don’t like the deal… walk. Instead people want to clench over futures they thought would play out… yet no one will ever live through.

Its like having a concert/show canceled… your ‘exclusive’ opportunity didn’t come to be. Move on… not pound your fists about the future you were denied and what someone is going to give you for your loss…. Get bent

Right, it’s the other guys that are toxic.

Then perhaps you should pitch your superior business strategy to the manufacturers.

Then cue the CrazyLevi quote: “if Pinside ran things they would be tits up in a week.”

I think you need to provide a more detailed response here.

To quote Monty Python - "This is just contradiction. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes."

The LE buyers made the assumption that the topper would not be available through other means. Now that their assumption has proven to be false, they are upset.

As to whether that was a reliable assumption, well, CGC's toppers for AFM and MB were not available outside the LE, but the MM topper was.

You could argue that the MM topper was a special exception, but the CC topper has a gameplay element (which could also be considered a special exception).

The end result is, if you are unhappy - cancel your order for an LE and buy the SE+ (if you really think those people somehow got a better deal).

I keep hoping a question I can help with. And long for the day when games start rolling out and the nature of this thread changes to game play and tech questions.

LTG : )

This day can not come fast enough.

Same!

Thanks for your sympathies. You have mine as well.
I tried to get on a list early but was told "have to wait until official announcement". Then signed up that day.

If anyone knows how I can get on a list for the next CGC game please let me know.
These lists should be transparent like the upgrade list at the airport. Otherwise it is just whoever the distributor wants to make happy and the rest of us get screwed.

Good luck getting your game.

Pure gold!

This is what every LE buyer thought the deal was, this is no longer the deal.

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I heard the SE+ are limited to 500 units…due to the global supply chain shortage of pineapples.

If we bitch enough like the SE buyers we might get an LE+ version

Dang I got downvoted…what happens next? A meaningless argument between two or more grown men through digital communication with nothing to gain on either side?? Sign me up!!!

Doug Duba said the CE aka Collector Edition is “unlikely”; but it’s possible. Pretty sure they moved on their efforts to building existing orders CCR SE / SE+ & LE’s / ** The NEXT CGC release”

If I remember correctly (and I’m SURE I’ll be corrected if I’m wrong) the CE release is a Classic Edition for CGC. In the past, it was the lowest tier.

You are correct.

Classic CE
Special SE
Limited LE

Will there be more ? Now that all depends on our stupidity.

If I remember correctly the only difference between the Classic edition and Special edition was the display size. The price hike for the bigger display on the SE was pretty substantial..especially when the cost difference between the two for the manufacturer was probably very small.

Color display, shaker motor, improved audio abs speaker lights. In some cases some bling items like on monster bash…better sculpts

there is much conjecture if they feel like originals, definitely a much prettier more modern package though.

That always makes me laugh.. The machines were assembled at W/B in those days but Churchill Cabinets(now CGC) were making the cabs and playfields. I think the reason for the "different feel" is the OGs are over 20 years old. Makes a difference comparing a brand spanking new machine to the same one but that's 20+ years old.

How much are you guys being quoted on shipping from your distributor ?

There are obviously producers watching threads like theese.

There are a lot of companies in a plethora of fields, that arent depending on luring/forcing people into impulsive buying and they are doing fine.
Are you saying that no pinball company under any circumstance would survive without the forced limited business model?

Let me dumb this down for you. Most pinball manufacturers are not multi billion dollar corporations.

Getting an influx of cash at the start of the production helps them stay afloat. Right now there is no easier way to get a bunch of quick deposits than to have a limited version that buyers have to get now or miss out.

LE deposits = 1250 x $1k = $1.25m of quick cash to buy the initial batch of parts for the assembly line.

It’s kind of like crowd funding.

To be honest if cgc would make a classic version for 5999.00 like they did with their other games. I might just let my spot go and take the classic. What do you guys think??? Then these guys can have my spot since the value is so far off the charts.

But I believe they cut the classic to force everyone to believe in the massive value of the LE and now the SE.

Can't you guys see it. This is how cgc raises their prices to 11-12k for LE"s and you guys love it!

Which could easily be solved by going with limited time to order, instead of limited number of games.

Possibly. However scarcity is what primarily drives fomo.

Obviously not but what should be more obvious is that these companies have decided that the LE/CE model is giving them the best chance to be profitable/sustainable in what historically (at least since the mid 80s) has been an at-risk enterprise.

Not exactly, the old original software is emulated on the remakes. When you turn on an Original AFM, MM, MB, it boots in a few seconds and you can start playing.

A remakes take 60 ish seconds or so to boot the computer, load the emulation layer, and be able to play.

To many the flippers don't feel exactly the same (i.e. latency), but this is a horse that has been beaten many times and strongly debated.

I have played many remakes all in a line at shows and it does seem that some feel better than others. Can't explain it.

It is a trade-off to consider, as the package CGC makes is incredible.

I do prefer the feel of the originals, but I am still in on a CCr.

I think they might be doing something different software wise with CCr, (new OS possibly?) not 100% sure.

If CGC can nail the feel of the flippers, the only thing folks will really have to complain about is the servicability / availability / expense of the giant surface mount boards 5-10+ years down the road.

That could always change though. The LE business model could become more toxic if enough people are frustrated by things like artificial scarcity, multiple LE models per game, changing model tiers... Etc.

I was never into the LE market, but I've only recently started to find it more frustrating as the differences feel less superficial than ever.

I believe they didn’t offer the classic because they had to write new dots for it(to complete code and new modes) and doing them for the regular dmd is a ton more work and may have been impractical. Seems they used the hi res of their large display for the shootout video mode. Also their classics probably don’t sell as well or as much as the SE and LE.

Just pure speculation on my part. I tend not to believe in conspiracy theories.

Or just sell Pro/Premium/Elite models with no limits at all.

Personally, I like the limited # edition games though. The collection-oriented part of my personality enjoys the thrill of the hunt. I don't get every LE that I want, but missing out on one gives me something to search for/trade for down the line.

Careful or you’ll be labeled a greedy, selfish bastard.

For the next machine, I really hope CGC makes a BBBR SE and a BBBR Deluxe Edition where we all can freely buy whatever version we want. And if you really want it to be limited, you can always find an original/first remake BBB for your collection.

Mine said $350 and I’ve seen others report around the same. Lowest I’ve seen is $300.

Can we pick up the game locally and save on shipping?

CGC allowed that on MMR, but that's no longer the case.

Only if those people stop buying any models of a game because of it and there’s absolutely no indication that is happening now or will happen anytime soon.

I’LL TAKE TEN OF WHATEVER YOU’RE SELLING!

Since my distributor won't charge over msrp on a game he cut me a deal and did flat rate shipping of 3k.